DC Writer Grant Morrison Hits Back At JUSTICE LEAGUE Director Zack Snyder's Comments About Batman Killing

DC Writer Grant Morrison Hits Back At JUSTICE LEAGUE Director Zack Snyder's Comments About Batman Killing

DC Comics writer Grant Morrison has shared his take on Zack Snyder's recent remarks about Batman's "no-kill" rule, arguing that it's a fundamental part of what makes Bruce Wayne, well, Bruce Wayne...

By JoshWilding - Mar 14, 2024 11:03 AM EST
Filed Under: Batman
Source: Grant Morrison

Last week, an interview with Zack Snyder was published which saw the filmmaker justify his decision to have Ben Affleck's Dark Knight kill in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.

The director, who also had Superman defeat General Zod by snapping his neck in Man of Steel, put it down to his "deconstructivist point of view" of superheroes and added, "People are always like, 'Batman can’t kill.' So Batman can't kill is canon. And I'm like, 'Okay, well, the first thing I want to do when you say that is I want to see what happens."

He'd later say, "And they go, 'Well, don’t put him in a situation where he has to kill someone.' I'm like, 'Well, that’s just like you're protecting your God in a weird way, right? You're making your God irrelevant.'"

Snyder's take on Batman's "no-kill" rule has split opinions and prolific comic book writer Grant Morrison (they/them) has now shared a rebuttal. They're well-versed in what makes the Caped Crusader tick, having spent years writing the hero's DC Comics series (Morrison also introduced Damian Wayne/Robin). 

"I was reading how film director Zack Snyder thinks Batman should kill as part of the character’s self-imposed mission to stop crime," they wrote in a recent edition of their newsletter. "[If] Batman killed his enemies, he’d be the Joker, and Commissioner Gordon would have to lock him up!"

"That Batman puts himself in danger every night but steadfastly refuses to murder is an essential element of the character’s magnificent, horrendous, childlike psychosis," Morrison adds, arguing that Bruce Wayne never grew out of being the boy who watched his parents die in Crime Alley. They explain that's "fundamental to [Batman's] grandeur as a fictional adventure hero! Is this not obvious?"

Batman did kill during his earliest comic book adventures and even carried firearms. However, that changed pretty fast and it's hard to argue with any of the points Morrison makes here. 

Batman's "no-kill rule" has since become a fundamental aspect of the character's moral code and philosophy. It dictates that the Dark Knight does not kill criminals, regardless of how dangerous or heinous their actions may be. This rule has been a defining characteristic of his crime-fighting methodology, though Tim Burton's 1989 Batman movie did see the hero kill. 

On the page, the iconic hero employs various non-lethal methods and tools, such as his martial arts skills, specialized gadgets, and incapacitating weaponry, to apprehend criminals without resorting to lethal force.

Who do you agree with? Snyder or Morrison? Let us know in the comments section below.

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MadThanos
MadThanos - 3/14/2024, 11:09 AM
Grant is right.
ReverseFlasher
ReverseFlasher - 3/14/2024, 11:14 AM
@MadThanos - Thanos was right…

… about Morrison being right.
lazlodaytona
lazlodaytona - 3/14/2024, 11:17 AM
@MadThanos - no, he's not being practical.
HistoryofMatt
HistoryofMatt - 3/14/2024, 11:29 AM
@MadThanos - Except Snyder didn't say what Morrison said he said.

So how is Morrison right?
ObserverIO
ObserverIO - 3/14/2024, 11:53 AM
@HistoryofMatt - Thanos was wrong about Morrison being right about Snyder being... wrong?
ObserverIO
ObserverIO - 3/14/2024, 11:54 AM
@ObserverIO - No Thanos was right about Morrison being wrong about Snyder being wrong. Right?
four20smoke
four20smoke - 3/14/2024, 3:14 PM
@ObserverIO -exactly
Nightwing1015
Nightwing1015 - 3/14/2024, 3:33 PM
@ObserverIO - His laughter stops in the comic too, so the film's version is a very faithful adaptation
xstryker
xstryker - 3/15/2024, 8:19 AM
@lazlodaytona - “Practical” is not an essential aspect of his character. Refusing to kill murderers even when they try to force him to do so, that is essential Batman.
BearShirt
BearShirt - 3/15/2024, 9:58 PM
@xstryker - Batman has crossed his own line more than once, depending upon how the narrative allows him to retain that “not kill when the Joker is daring him to” ethos, whether it’s “not saving” villains when their own action creates the situation that kills them when he leaves (Abattoir in the comics, Ra’s in the movies, etc.) or deeming the villain a cosmic threat to existence like Darkseid in Final Crisis (he even used a gun for that one). Snyder and Morrison are both technically correct; the fact that he maintains that line and the reasons he’s expressed for it ARE core to his character, but the times he seems to come close to crossing that line and the reasons and repercussions for edging the line are fascinating aspects to his character as well.
BearShirt
BearShirt - 3/15/2024, 10:04 PM
@xstryker - I’m stupid - I forgot Abattoir was Azreal Batman, not Bruce Wayne.
lazlodaytona
lazlodaytona - 3/18/2024, 7:02 PM
@xstryker - So, when he actually did kill in the earlier comics, and Keaton gunned down Joker's henchmen and then eventually Killed him .... nah, you're right. Bats has 'no' history of killing.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 3/14/2024, 11:09 AM
And Yet Grant Morrison is one of the biggest suporters that Batman KILLED the Joker at the end of Alan Moore's 'Killing Joke' graphic novel.

DrReedRichards
DrReedRichards - 3/14/2024, 11:13 AM
@Nomis929 -

Isn't it left ambiguous on purpose? The only adaptation I've seen confirm that Batman is strangling Joker in the final panel (still with no confirmed kill) is that God-awful animated movie from a couple of years ago.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 3/14/2024, 11:17 AM
@DrReedRichards - YES, Moore left it Ambigious on purpose.

THE POINT I was making is that Grant Morrison is one of the ones who say that BATMAN killed him. others say he didn't. And now he saying he don't kill in this article? he flip flops with who he talking to.
ObserverIO
ObserverIO - 3/14/2024, 11:17 AM
@Nomis929 - But that killing him broke his one rule and made The Killing Joke the final Batman story in which the Joker's plan worked and Joker won, at least ideologically.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 3/14/2024, 11:18 AM
@ObserverIO - But Morrison said he killed the JOker in that interview with Kevin Smith. And now he saying BAtman don't kills? He's talking out BOTH side of his mouth.
DrReedRichards
DrReedRichards - 3/14/2024, 11:21 AM
@Nomis929 -

But by leaving it ambiguous he actually shows that Batman leans into that line but never crosses it. Kinda like that Alfred line, you know the one.

My point is, Morrison showed that Batman's descent is like the graph a hyperbolic curve on the axis. Leaning ever closer to the line without ever actually touching it, let alone crossing it. Snyder on the other hand stepped on it, crossed ran a mile, turned 180, ran a mile back, spat on the line, and then ran two miles back where he came from.

"Cool" and "dark" is just the name of the game for him.
ObserverIO
ObserverIO - 3/14/2024, 11:23 AM
@Nomis929 - He's saying Batman doesn't kill, but in The Killing Joke he does and that's what ends him. He becomes Joe Chill at the end of that book. The Joker won.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 3/14/2024, 11:28 AM
@ObserverIO - Which goes contrary to what he's saying in the aritcle as if he woudl never do it.
Vigor
Vigor - 3/14/2024, 11:32 AM
@Nomis929 - I think everyone, especially @ObserverIO explained this well to you! I don't see Grant talking out both sides of his mouth. Thats batman code. To not kill. Until he does. Which is what makes the killing joke compelling

Snyder threw that all out the window and then doubled down on it. Showing a fundamental misunderstanding of the character
ObserverIO
ObserverIO - 3/14/2024, 11:34 AM
@Nomis929 - The whole book is about Joker saying that "All it takes is one bad day" for someone to cross the line into insanity like he did and become as bad as him.

He tried to give Gordon one bad day to prove his point. But then he tells that joke about two lunatics in the asylum to Batman. The two lunatics are Batman and the Joker. Batman is the one shining the flashlight across the buildings saying Joker can cross it to be where he is, cross it to freedom. Joker's the one scared he'll turn it off before he's crossed it.

Batman realises the futility and insanity of his work and after the day he's had, that was it. His well trained and reasonable mind finally snaps because of a simple joke that doesn't seem to mean anything, but puts his whole life and mind into perspective. He realises he's insane.

And then he kills Joker and laughs. He had his One Bad Day and became the Joker himself.

The End of Batman.

There are no more stories after that. Alan Moore found a way to secretly tell the last Batman story and it only actually works if Batman does have a no-kill rule and if it's so important to him that he would never ever break it.

The book was folded into continuity, but Alan Moore never intended for it to be. If you look at the scene in the Batcave there is a photograph of the Earth 2 Bat-family. I think that this was supposed to be Alan Moore's final Batman story for Earth 2 in the same way that 'Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow' was his final Superman story.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 3/14/2024, 11:35 AM
@Vigor - He can't say it one way and then another. That's talking out BOTH side of his mouth. and hypocritcal.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 3/14/2024, 11:38 AM
@ObserverIO - Yeah, I read the book. many times, starting in '88 on the FIRST DAY when it came out! I have plenty of verision of it.

my Comment was not a synopsis of 'The Killing Joke' but of GRANT MORRISON "wishy washy" position on BAtman Killing.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 3/14/2024, 11:41 AM
@Vigor -

ObserverIO
ObserverIO - 3/14/2024, 11:58 AM
@Nomis929 - "Intentionally" interesting. Wait is he flatout threatening to kill someone here unless they surrender? Holy rusted sherrif's badge, Batman!
DTor91
DTor91 - 3/14/2024, 12:05 PM
@Nomis929 - Remember that in its original intent, and why it can still be read as a stand alone, is because The Killing Joke wasn’t written as a canon story. DC fit it in only years later.

Taken within that context, that is an interpretation one can come to and one many has debated for years.
Given Grant’s understanding of the character and the history, I’m sure that’s the context within Grant was speaking on.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 3/14/2024, 12:05 PM
@ObserverIO - Yes, he's threatening Ras Al Ghul in the classic comic: Batman Vol. 1 #244. Holy don't read comics, Batman.!
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 3/14/2024, 12:11 PM
@DTor91 - It wasn't thtat long afterwards that it was made cannon, The Joker paralyze Bsrabara Gordon in the book and she became ORACLE soon after that book was published.

My POINT is Grant is interpretation is that Batman KILLEd the Joker, while others have said he didn't killed the joker, and yet in this article Grant is saying BAtman steadfastly refuses to murder is an essential element of the character’s magnificent, horrendous, childlike psychosis.

He contradicts his own previous notion of what Batman woudl do from the Killing Joke.
ObserverIO
ObserverIO - 3/14/2024, 12:17 PM
@Nomis929 - I have read that. I have it in the Tales of the Demon collection. That line must have gone over my head all these times. But he really is threatening to kill Ra's.

Like if Ra's had not surrendered, Batman would have rolled his sleeves up and got right down to business taking a life in cold blood.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 3/14/2024, 12:22 PM
@ObserverIO - I have a first print copy in good condition. One of my price possessions. Love that comic!



ObserverIO
ObserverIO - 3/14/2024, 12:24 PM
If I remember correctly this is the one with the bare-chested swordfight in the desert right. Neal Adams was a god.

I think Ra's does not surrender and Batman does not kill him. Probably just punches him in the face. Maybe he should've said "I swear I will punch you in the face and give you to the authorities if you don't surrender" because I'm pretty sure that's what he did.
ObserverIO
ObserverIO - 3/14/2024, 12:25 PM
@Nomis929 - I was typing as you posting. That's the scene I remember. I've got it in a long box somewhere, but it's under other longboxes and they're heavy and I'm lazy, lol.

Neal Adams was a god among men.
JonC
JonC - 3/14/2024, 12:27 PM
@Nomis929 - it doesn't go contrary, he is reacting to a book someone else wrote... like reacting to Snyder's batman.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 3/14/2024, 12:31 PM
@ObserverIO - "Neal Adams was a god among men".

On this, we can AGREE!

He was my favoriter Comic Book artist of all time abd A champion of comic book creator's rights!
I Still haven't got over his passing.

Polaris
Polaris - 3/14/2024, 12:32 PM
@Nomis929 - It's not a contradiction. Batman can't kill because if he does he stops being Batman. You can't have more stories of Batman being a superhero after that. That's why Morrison said "if Batman killed his enemies, he’d be the Joker", which is pretty much what happens in TKJ.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 3/14/2024, 12:37 PM
@JonC - But his reaction to Moore's story, was tha BATman did Kill the Joker (although many others have said Batman didn't kill Joker) So in Grant's interpetation of Alan Moore's story is that in this situation Batman WILL kill and he's vehemtly trying to convince Kevin Smith that he did becasue smith didn't think Batman killed him!

Any yet, NOW, Grant is saying in the article that BAtman "... puts himself in danger every night but steadfastly refuses to murder...", but is on video trying to convince Kevin Smith that he did kill the Joker in tat case. He's contradicting himself.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 3/14/2024, 12:47 PM
@Polaris - nd yet, ALAN MOORE, the writer, left it up to the reader rather Batman killed or not.

Ironically, Grant Morrison see it as Batman kiling the Joker (while others ahve not) but Batman he would never do kill at all.

He talking out both side of his mouth.

Polaris
Polaris - 3/14/2024, 12:59 PM
@Nomis929 - He's not tho. He thinks Batman did kill in that story, but by doing so he stops being a hero. The point is not that Batman (or rather, Bruce) can never, under any circumstances kill someone, but that if he does, that's the end of the character. You can't have Batman kill in a movie and then keep fighting crime like nothing. It's like killing himself. Sure, he could do it, but that'd be the end because he'd be dead.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 3/14/2024, 1:04 PM
@Polaris - And yet others think Batman didn't kill the Joker. Moore left it up to the reader.

I would think if Morrison was so keen on Batman not being a killer at all, as he say in this aritcle, he wouldn't be so adamant to prove to Kevin Smith, and anyone who see the video, that Batman did Kill the Joker.
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