Fanboy Glasses Off! How Tough and Smart is Batman For Real?

So Many Great Villains, But Are Any Of Them A Challenge?

Editorial Opinion
By VIRILEMAN - Mar 23, 2013 07:03 AM EST
Filed Under: Fan Fic

The first thing I want to do in this article is a little out of the ordinary. I want to list my top ten favorite superheroes in order. And the reason for this is simple, I'm trying to defuse a fanbomb from going off. I'm looking for a real discussion on this matter, not a big ol' fight. So without further ado:

1.Spider-Man
2.The HULK
3.Iron Man
4.Blade
5.Superman
6.Spider-Man 2099
7.Captain America
8.Wolverine
9.Batman
10.Dr. Strange

My reason for the list is obvious. I love Batman. He is in my top 10 favorite superheroes. But this thought has gone through my head over and over. I've had this discussion with a few of my buddies and they sort of see my point. Batman is made out to be a tough as nail, master martial artists who can defeat almost anyone given enough time and resources. He is talked about as if he is a master strategist. But I, more than not, fail to see that when he is actually written. I'll give you some examples.

Batman has a great rogues gallery. But how many of them offer him a real challange when it comes to his fighting abilities? The Joker never has, the Penguin is a joke, Two Face is a lawyer not a fighter, The Riddler is a foe for the mind and not the body, Catwoman is well...a woman. While my personal favorite is Scar Face. I think Scar Face is one of the greatest villians ever created. But obviously a doll and an old man shouldn't be much of a challange for a master hand to hand fighter. I could go on and on so I'll just get to my point. One of the few villians who offer a challange is Bane (who when compared to the rest of the comic universe isn't even that powerful). And soon after Batman and Bane meet Batman gets his back broken. The one time Batman is actually challanged physically he gets the tar kicked out of him.

The one line I hear over and over to try to convince me that Batman isn't overrated is the fact he's beaten Superman. But Superman is easily defeated with a chunk of green rock. If Peter Parker's Aunt May got a hold of some of that stuff even she could beat Superman. So that is a terrible arguement. Another one I've heard is when Batman shot Darkseid with a radion bullet. Do I really need to explain why this one is also a bad example? HE USED A GUN! He shot a bullet! Batman has defeated more powerful foes not because he applied science to the immediate situation much like Spidey or Reed does, not because he finally cuts loose like Superman has done, he beats much more powerful opponents by simply having a device that needs a trigger pulled or having a green rock in his belt.

Which brings me to another point. Batman isn't that smart. He is a great detective but people try to talk about Batman like he's Reed Richards or something. He didn't create most of his own weapons. He needs an auto mechanic for crying out loud! While Tony Stark built his own armor, Peter Parker created his own web shooters, while Bruce Wayne needed Wayne Tech. And even if we said "ok Bruce Wayne created everything he uses." That's still not very impressive. He created a kevlar suit, and shurikens shaped like bats, gas bombs and the like. How does that make him an inventive genius? It's not like he created a suit of armor that can fly and travel into space or a machine that can open portals into other dimensions.

So my point in all this is simple. I think Batman is a great character. But his popularity has created a false personification of the actual character. In order to have him fight someone like Green Lantern or even Aquaman and not immediately get killed you have to beef up what and who he actually is. Which in my opinion lessens the character. It's the fact he is so human that makes him so interesting. So that when he fights someone like Killer Croc or Bane and barely pulls off a win we should say "YAH! He did it! He fought someone who is stronger and faster but still won!" but instead we say "yeah Batman could beat Dr. Strange, he'd find a way, because he's Batman!"

When what makes him interesting is the fact he'd lose because he's just a man. In real life he'd probably even loose to someone like Killer Croc. But that's what makes it exciting. When Bat fans talk about Batman like he could easily defeat characters that are obviously MUCH more powerful than he is it cheapens the character. It robs the character of what makes him such a great character to begin with.

About The Author:
VIRILEMAN
Member Since 8/25/2011
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aresww3
aresww3 - 3/23/2013, 8:28 AM
Preach the truth brother.
by the way check out my video
Why I Hate Batman Fanboys But Love Batman.



Subscribe if you like.

P.S.
Que The Oh so hilarious "Because He´s Batman" Jokes.
Lindsey35
Lindsey35 - 3/23/2013, 9:43 AM
Batman is one of my favorite superhero's, but sadly, I agree on so many levels.
fortycals
fortycals - 3/23/2013, 10:27 AM
While I agree that most on some parts, on others I think you couldnt be more wrong. The problem in most comics(especially dc comics) is that these super powerfull characters all have a dibilatating weakness(superman/kryptonite, MMH/fire). So these weaknesses are the characters most closely gaurded secretes. Secretes are where the worlds greatest detective dwells. So the strength of BM, isnt the moment he shoots Darksied, it was finding darksieds weakness. That is who batman is.

Now I do agree this does not translate well across companies. While some marvel characters do have weaknesses, most are not so cut and dry as DC's characters. I've never been one of those guys that says batman beats everybody, but with prep he is Dangerous. Batman is one of those characters, that might get beat down on the first meeting, but come the second time around they are more than likely going down. Thats his superpower(along with money). So one big problem with dealing with batman that if you are not willing to kill him the first time around, beware.
fortycals
fortycals - 3/23/2013, 10:43 AM
Now I do agree that most of batmans personal rouges are more of a mental challenge. Bane didnt even break the bat, in a man to man fair fight. He broke out all the villians of arkham first, and then let batman wear hisself out catching them. Then when Bruce was at his weakest he attacked. He does have a wide range of rouges, from all brains to all brawn. Even when dealing with the more brawny characters he still outsmarts them. He doesnt beat croc, clayface, or bane, with his body he beats them with his mind. His body is only the tool
QuestionDAnswer
QuestionDAnswer - 3/23/2013, 2:02 PM
Cool list mine would be
1.Batman
2.Superman
3.Hellblazer
4.Aquaman New 52
5.Green Arrow/Deathstroke
6.Shazam!
7.Rorschach/Azrael
8.Jonah Hex/Deadshot particularly when he is part of the Suicide Squad or Secret Six
9.Nightwing
10.Lobo
AmazingFantasy
AmazingFantasy - 3/23/2013, 3:38 PM
He can beat anyone because hes Batman...

Good article
fortycals
fortycals - 3/23/2013, 3:42 PM
@ Virileman
Im agreeing that his prep time is overrated. It works in the DC world for the reasons I stated above. DC powerful characters have these weaknesses not just for Batman. It's because alot of their characters are so ridiculously overpowered, and have to have a weakness or there would never be any danger. Like you said " I could beat MMH if you found out his weakness." Thats why batman has this rep, because he always finds out. He is not the worlds greatest fighter, or the worlds smartest man. He is the worlds greatest detective. He is like Korvac in marvel, to a certain extent, finding out peoples weaknesses.

I dont think this would translate well across companies. What is thors kryptonite? Its alot more complicated. Thats is what Im saying. I dont think he could beat everybody, but if you have an exploitable weakness, he would be the one to find out. Strange would mud stop batman the first time around, but wouldnt kill him. That would be his mistake. Batman would figure out that strange would need his hands to cast spells.
EdgyOutsider
EdgyOutsider - 3/23/2013, 6:18 PM
I like him as a character but, he's like Superman. He's completely overrated.
EdgyOutsider
EdgyOutsider - 3/23/2013, 6:55 PM
@Levi: I know people get after me for always favoring Marvel over DC. I like Batman and The Flash. I even like more of Batman's rogues gallery than most. I just think people make Batman and Superman out to be more than what they really are. More Batman than anyone. Yes, I think Aquaman is lame. I just don't find a single thing about him interesting, same with Marvel's Namor. I don't hate DC, I just don't care much for them. A lot of people think I'm pure Marvel and that they can't do wrong. Honestly, I've never been a fan of Heroes for Hire, never liked Thor outside of the MCU, Iron Man has a weak rogues gallery, I could go on and on. I get nonstop hate for liking TASM and being biased when it comes to Marvel. I've said it a thousand times. It's all about preference. Both Marvel and DC have their own strengths and weaknesses. I've seen enough of them both to know.

I just have always found Marvel to be more interesting and more appealing. I don't ever mean to bash DC, I just personally find them hard to get into.
GuardianDevil
GuardianDevil - 3/23/2013, 9:35 PM
Love it, agree on all points except Batman beating Superman. That's misinformation that Batman obsessives use to argue their point, Dark Knight Returns wasn't even a canon book. There have been countless time where Batman with Kryptonite got completely destroyed against Superman (who can fight through it)

Anyways, I like the article. The thing I find most intriguing about Batman is that he's a human, and it's very interesting to read about as opposed to god-ish characters. So, yeah Batman is easily one of the coolest and most interesting heroes of all time, but in a battle? He's gonna get his butt kicked by 80% of all the heroes in existence.


As for the prep time thing, I agree he could never EVER, EVER beat guys like Spidey, Iron Man, Superman, Thor, etc. Even with prep, Spider-Man or anyone above Spider-Man level is impossible for Batman to win against without it being plot induced stupidity.

But... He MIGHT (I say "might") be able to take down guys like Iron Fist, Deadpool Blade, etc. with prep time. But we have to consider that other characters are going to use prep time as well. I like having vs debates with Batman against people who are at his own level.
GuardianDevil
GuardianDevil - 3/23/2013, 9:40 PM
Another thing, everyone seems to think that he's the best martial artist in all of comics, I can name at least two off the top of my head that are better, and 3 or 4 that are his equals.

I don't hate Batman, he's my 3rd favorite in DC (Superman & Deathstroke are top 2 for me) but I hate how everyone thinks he's some kind of an invincible Odin-level character. When he's just a human, and THAT'S WHY EVERYONE LIKES HIM, because he's just a human and that's incredibly interesting and fun to read about.
RextheKing
RextheKing - 3/23/2013, 9:49 PM
Oh my goodness, I love this article. Batman is constantly overpowered by fanboys, and it's annoying. Every time Batman is in a video and someone ask "Why...." you always get that overused, annoying, make me want to blow my [frick]ing brains out, comment "Because he's Batman."
To make matters worse, Batman is my second favorite superhero, behind Iron Man, yet I feel this way.
fortycals
fortycals - 3/24/2013, 4:05 AM
Virile

I am not saying that its right, I am saying that is how batman is written and why his fanboys think that. Thats his superpower wether we like it or not. They didnt make it up, the writers did. You cant take that away from him. Is it overrated as hell, yes. All im saying is that its not the fanboys fault, its his writers.

Strange is a walking deus ex ma himself. So its funny that you bring him up. Remember the ninjas. Regular old ninjas beat the TSS. It was POS but its still cannon. So its not out of the question for batman. Once again I not one of those guys, just someone that understands why his fanboys fell that way. Just like why strange fans or Ironman fans feel the way they do.
fortycals
fortycals - 3/24/2013, 4:37 AM
In my mind I see it like this. With prep characters like, Batman, Ironman, reed, and strange dominate, because that is were there strengths lie. They would be able to beat characters that they normally wouldnt. They do it all the times in their books, so you cant take that away just because its bullshit.
GuardianDevil
GuardianDevil - 3/24/2013, 1:11 PM
@fangz
That's not true, Taskmaster can just watch someone's movements and instantly replicate them, Batman CAN DO NO SUCH THING.

Batman can't instantly replicate people's attacks, nor can he adapt instantly the way Taskmaster can. He's just a normal human....

Anyways, even if he could adapt like that how's it going to help him against someone who can move 40x faster than him, an is 20x stronger like Spidey? Spidey would beat him so fast and so easy, Bats wouldn't stand a chance against him with or without prep. It's impossible for Batman to beat Spider-Man or any above his level unless there is an easily exploitable weakness like a rock. The only way Batmam beats Spidey, is if Spidey stands there like an idiot, and does absolutely nothing. Even then Spidey has a level of superhuman durability, and has survived much worse than an a Martial arts punch.He could just sit there and Batmam would still have to fight him for around 10 minutes at least before his blows have any effect on Spidey.
GuardianDevil
GuardianDevil - 3/24/2013, 1:12 PM
Just face the truth here guys, Batman is one of the coolest ever. But he's still just a normal human, and he cannot defeat guys like Spidey or anyone above that level. To think so is delusional...
unknownfacts
unknownfacts - 3/24/2013, 1:25 PM
Wow Batman has too many articles on this website what is so fascinating about the guy.No offense but why should any care what another person think everyone is entitle to their own opinion.

The way I see it is like this when confronted by someone who thinks Batman could beat a character you think he can't you could either get in a pointless arguement over to fictional characters or just walk away because nothing we say can chanage another's mind once they've made their decision.
unknownfacts
unknownfacts - 3/24/2013, 2:05 PM
The true problem is that comic were never meant for adults but a modern way to tell precautionary tales to children but when the children grew up they never left the comic books go.So they made comics for adults and as adults we look at them from a logical stand point which ruins the true fun of the fantasy elements created in comics.
fortycals
fortycals - 3/24/2013, 2:10 PM
strange didnt do that against those ninjas that kicked his ass. See strange has lose to people that he shouldnt have lost to. you are missing my point that strange is just as bad as batman. you picked marvels most deuce ex ma. we could debate all day these characters but bottom line is that who ever writes it, controls the out come. What ever we say or that fanboy says doesnt matter.
fortycals
fortycals - 3/24/2013, 2:37 PM
Once again I'm not arguing that Batman should win, just that he could depending on the writers not the fan boys.
ravennpilot
ravennpilot - 3/24/2013, 3:03 PM
It will always depend on the writer. In one story Batman is built like a bodybuilder that can kick holes in brick walls. In another he can be a lanky detective character that throws a Kapow punch.

With a character this old and has be written almost every year for what 70 years. People are going to experiment. In that Superman Batman team up comic they beat the crap out of 100 super villains in like 3 pages. In another Batman has trouble with a robot werewolf.

What do you like to see out of Batman, do you want to see. A man who is limited by not having powers or do you want to see a man that can function and be a top dog in a world with super powers.

Batman works with DC not because weakness built into the people but because he has known these people in decades worth of comics. If Marvel ever adopted Batman he would learn eventually all there is to know about the characters there. thats kind of what he does when he has been around long ehoungh.
relentless1
relentless1 - 3/24/2013, 11:30 PM
batman feats:

http://batmanfeats.blogspot.ca
GuardianDevil
GuardianDevil - 3/25/2013, 12:50 AM
@relentless
I've actually looked at that page before, Batman can beat the majority of human-level opponents and some metahumans. Alot of those feats are good though...

You guys probably think I'm a big Batman hater but it's not true at all. I actually enjoy discussions where he faces human level opponents like for example:

Batman vs Deadpool
Batman vs Blade
Batman vs Daredevil

Those are fights that he actually might be able to win, and they'd all be pretty close.

It's just when people think he can take on opponents who outclass him by a massive margin, like Spidey for instance that's when people (myself included) start getting ticked off.

Like people always say "give Batman his due" and I do give him his due, he's a master detective, one of Earth's greatest martial artists, and he's a genius tactician. But you see how is being super smart and a great martial artist going to help him against someone who can move 40x faster and 20x stronger than him? (Spidey)....or how is a master martial artist going to hang against someone who is literally around 300x stronger, uses heat seeking missiles (which obviously he can't escape from) and could disintegrate him with a blast than can move faster than light? (Iron Man) that's when people get ticked off, because if you look at both side's feats, powers, traits and abilities he honestly would stand no change against them. That's all we are saying...
GuardianDevil
GuardianDevil - 3/25/2013, 12:52 AM
*chance
relentless1
relentless1 - 3/25/2013, 1:18 AM
i agree that he couldnt beat spidey or people of a higer caliber than him but i think he could beat iron man because hes just a regular man who happens to have a crazy suit of armour, they can be seperated and stark defeated
unknownfacts
unknownfacts - 3/25/2013, 3:33 AM
What ticks me off is when people claim they want proof of his feats and when you show them they get all anti Batman on you like you made it up.It's like if you don't want proof don't ask for it then.Another thing I find annoying is when people character bash(any character)then claim to be a fan of the character.To me it seems like an after thought to protect oneself from being called hater of the character.Not pointing any fingers just saying.

On a side note.Yes his feats are some times farfecth but it no different then any other comic book main characters.In reality the hero would never wins hell in real life there are no heroes.

GuardianDevil
GuardianDevil - 3/25/2013, 4:57 AM
@relentless
True, IF he manages to separate the man from the suit.

I agree if it's plain old Tony Stark vs plain old Bruce Wayne, that Wayne would relatively easily take care of Stark.

But in their alternate personas, Batman and Iron Man. Every way I look at it, the only way I see Batman having a chance is with an EMP device, even that's a bit risky for him because Stark has made the suit immune to 90% of EMP attacks. So yeah, EMP is his only shot. Even then it's a real long-shot to say the least.
fortycals
fortycals - 3/25/2013, 5:15 AM
Yes Fangz it does. He will routinely get away from a fight he cant win only to come back with some specialized off the wall gadget/strategy to deal with said threat. If you dont want to search decades of comic material take a look at the The dark night returns part 1 cartoon. He takes a serious beating from the mutant leader who is stronger and faster. So he sets the mutant leader up to fight on his terms, and proceeds to break him down piece by piece. Alot of Heroes do this, just not many do it like BM.

Thats why I think he stands a better chance going three round with spidey, than three rounds with deadpool. Spidey would let him live, giving him two more rounds, and a chance to create a spidercure(stupid i know). Spidey should win by all means, but Batman should loose most of his fights just looking at power ratings. Plus you also have to take in effect, that spidey holds back(pulls punches) the majority of the time.

Messing with some one like DP, blade, or wolvie, he might not make it out of the first round. IMO if you are not willing to kill BM off the break, there is a chance BM could sneek out a win. This applies to alot of characters, marvel's eight smartest people, for example. Same logic, if you dont kill stark off the break, your chances of winning out right just dropped drastically.
GuardianDevil
GuardianDevil - 3/25/2013, 11:36 AM
Well, it's tough to say who's smarter because they are different kinds of smart.

Like in science, technical know how, ingenuity, engineering, and scientific intelligence Iron Man has Batman beat by a mile...

But in deductive reasoning, tactical skill, strategic skill, and detective skills Batman is better than Iron Man in those.

I think overall Stark is definitely smarter, but they are different kinds of smart if you get what I mean.
GuardianDevil
GuardianDevil - 3/25/2013, 11:40 AM
Like it is true that Batman didn't build most of his gadgets while Iron Man built everything himself.

But by the same token, Batman is a tactical genius while Iron Man relys on JARVIS for all that, at least now that JARVIS is a computer, not an actual butler.
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