EDITORIAL: ROTTEN TOMATOES 101

EDITORIAL: ROTTEN TOMATOES 101

Fans have been bashing Rotten Tomatoes for years but 2016 has seen a whole new level of hatred. And yet, many of these people don’t understand how the site actually works. One movie geek tries his best to explain RT to the uninitiated.

Editorial Opinion
By TwistedKingdom - Aug 12, 2016 09:08 PM EST
Filed Under: Other
Source: RottenTomatoes.com

 


The reviews are out for the highly anticipated Suicide Squad, the newest addition to Warner Bros’ growing DC Extended Universe, and they aren’t pretty. While the film has claimed the highest opening weekend in the month of August, critics and general audiences don’t seem at all impressed by Squad. So far, the DCEU is making money but hasn’t connected with many outside of DC fandom. It’s gotten to where it’s drawing comparisons to Michael Bay’s Transformers films - they make money but could use help as far as quality.

 

So, who’s to blame for the terrible reviews? This has to be someone’s fault. Perhaps the people who are actually making the product being fed to audiences? Warner Bros? Zack Snyder? David Ayer? Not so fast. It's clearly Rotten Tomatoes' fault. After all it was them that gave Squad and Batman v Superman such low scores on their site.

 

Or did they?

 

There’s this old quote from author Eva Le Gallienne - “People hate what they don’t understand and try to destroy it”.

 

This actually explains the hate towards Rotten Tomatoes - most people just don’t understand it or how it works. The idea seems to be someone from RT goes to a screening of a movie, reviews it and gives it a percentage from 1 to 100. If that’s what you think, you’ve got RT all wrong. Here’s how it really works…

RT is what’s called an "aggregator". An aggregator is “a website or program that collects related items of content and displays them or links to them”. In this case, reviews for film and television. RT collects the reviews and displays them. It DOES NOT review films. So what does the percentage mean?

 


 

You may have been interpreting the Tomatometer all wrong.
 

RT uses a Fresh/Rotten system. In other words, "Thumbs up/Thumbs down”. The percentage is the number of critics who give a film a “Fresh” or “Thumbs Up”. For example, out of 100 reviews, 65% of critics give a film a Fresh rating. RT's Tomatometer asks if the critic liked it or not instead of what did they think about it. There’s no gray area. That’s why the site provides links - so people have access to the actual reviews. Reviews by critics from Rolling Stone, Variety, the LA Times and tons more. The critics DO NOT WORK FOR ROTTEN TOMATOES.

 

Imagine if schools started handing out Pass and Fail on report cards instead of letter grades. One student’s report card could say he passed 94% of his classes. So everyone is saying “He got a 94%”. But when you look into the actual grades, he received a bunch of C’s and D’s.

 

The original Thor’s Tomatometer score is 77%. But look at a system like Metascore, for example, a system that asks how the critics feel about the movie, and the film gets a 57/100. The Avengers sits at a 92% Fresh score but earned a 62/100 with Metascore. And there are plenty of critics with their own rating system, be it 5 stars, a 1 to 10 scale or an actual letter grade. RT’s system doesn’t take this into account. Like I said, it’s Pass/Fail. Like/Dislike. Fresh/Rotten.
 

 

IN CLOSING

 

Hopefully this educates some of the fans spitting venom at Rotten Tomatoes, although, I know better than to expect there to be any significant change. I don’t believe everyone will suddenly get how the site actually works. Just as you wouldn’t blame a report card for giving you a C- in Geometry, don’t blame RT for a negative review of a film you really like. Your beef is with the critic. And while we’re on that…

 

Honestly, why do any of these DC (or Marvel) Extremists care what the critics are saying? All that matters is if you enjoyed the film. It’s pointless to attack critics or other fans for not enjoying something as much as you did. “I don’t care what they think”, you may respond. Well, “f*ck the critics” says you do care. Passionately.

 

The truth is, the business these studios are in, their product has to appeal to a number of demographics in order to make money, not just “the fans”. Professional critics watch these films as part of the General Audience. They watch them differently than the audiences who know who the New Gods and Miles Morales are. You may try to justify something by saying “Well, in the comics…” but, more often than not, critics and GA’s don’t read comics.

 

It’s a movie to them, telling a story, and that’s how they’ll judge it. It may be the most comic accurate film ever but if it comes up short as a movie, you’re going to hear about it. Getting salty because people aren’t praising a movie the way you are (or want them to) will just end up with you being even more salty.

 

If you love the DCEU so far, that’s great. If you’ve found others who feel the same, fantastic. If you’re trying to convince detractors these are complex masterpieces, save yourself some grief. I love Step Up 2: the Streets but I don’t go around trying to convince everyone how brilliant it is. I know it’s teen fluff. Just because you really love something doesn’t make it great.


 

Post credit scene shows her in bed, nursing a serious cold. 


“Well, if I shouldn’t get angry at the critics or the people picking apart my film, who should I get angry at?” How about stop caring about them? Forget about petitions and conspiracy theories about studios paying critics to give movies negative reviews. Instead, put that effort to better use and pop in your favorite comic book movie while you're at it. You know you want to.

 

Thanks for reading, guys, and sound off below!

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ASGARDIANBRONY
ASGARDIANBRONY - 8/13/2016, 3:54 AM
Well said.
TwistedKingdom
TwistedKingdom - 8/13/2016, 5:18 PM
@ASGARDIANBRONY - Thanks!
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 8/13/2016, 5:09 AM
@TwistedKingdom

Right on, but there's also all of this....

"Video Critics, and Online Critics, etc" can count towards the tomato-meter as long as they have a certain amount of "followers". Also, in all cases, Rotten Tomatoes maintains the rights to "approve, reject, and remove critics and sources across all divisions on a case by case basis."

Personally, I can't stand RT, because not only is it misunderstood by the masses like your saying, but RT/the tomatometer also includes a very high number of video critics and online critics that I don't relate too and could care less about. Plus, there's the fact that RT has the right to remove any review/critic they want on a "case by case" or "movie by movie" basis. RT is just too corporate for me, and I wish it didn't get as much attention. I don't like the idea that RT is helping people to make up their minds before they see a movie or before a movie is even released.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/help_desk/critics

CavalierTunes
CavalierTunes - 8/13/2016, 9:20 AM
@DrKinsolving - a couple things:

RottenTomatos is owned by WB. I doubt they'd play corporate politics with their own movies unless it made Suicide Squad look better, not worse.

People are always going to make up their mind about a movie before they see it. I decided not to see Paranormal Activity 2 in the theatres because I didn't like the original. Many, many people on this site refused to see the Ghostbusters reboot for virus reasons. The fact is, many people don't have the luxury of seeing every single movie in the theatres, and they have to use some system to determine whether or not a movie is worth seeing. There are plenty of movies I would have never seen, except that they got such good Rotten Tomatoes scores that I decided to give them a chance. A lot of people don't want to take chances with movies that they know they won't like. I'm not a fan of watching Pixar films because they're geared toward children: should I be forced to give Finding Dory a chance? I hate Tom Cruise movies, should I be forced to give the new Mission Impossible a chance? And, 9 times out of 10, I dislike movies that get low Rotten Tomatoes ratings: should I have to see Suicide Squad to "make up my mind for myself," when I could spend my money on seeing Sausage Party instead? That whole argument seems to me like a plea for people to see a movie they may not like just because you want Scuicide Squad to do well. Tell me, then, how many movies that you would never ever want to see (because they're made for other demographics, or are part of a genre you hate, or because you heard bad reviews about) have you gone out of your way to see because you needed to see it to be sure it wasn't for you?
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 8/13/2016, 9:44 AM
@CavalierTunes -

Just so you know man.... WB doesn't own RT.

As of Febuary 2016, Comcast's Fandango owns Rotten Tomatoes, not Warner Brothers. Warner brothers only has a minority stake....

"In February 2016, Rotten Tomatoes and its parent site Flixster was sold to Comcast's Fandango. Warner Bros retained a minority stake in the merged entities, including Fandango."

This has made a lot of people wonder if RT can be trusted for Comcast-owned films produced and distributed by Universal Pictures?
CavalierTunes
CavalierTunes - 8/13/2016, 11:13 AM
@DrKinsolving - Then why would BvS get such a low Rotten Tomatoes score? That came out before Comcast took over, unless BvS deserved the bad reviews?
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 8/13/2016, 12:23 PM
@CavalierTunes -

Warner Brothers did not own RT when BvS was released in Theatres.

I'm just stating facts man, nothing else....

BvS was released on March 20th, 2016.

"In February 2016, Rotten Tomatoes and its parent site Flixster was sold to Comcast's Fandango"

WB did own RT when Man of Steel (2013) came out
CavalierTunes
CavalierTunes - 8/13/2016, 1:50 PM
@DrKinsolving - So, you legitimately believe there's some conspiracy against DC movies, then?
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 8/13/2016, 2:44 PM
@CavalierTunes -

A conspiracy? Like a secret plan to do harm?

Nope.

Not at all, and I never said one thing about a conspiracy.... You wrote that WB owns RT, and I was simply letting you know that WB does not own RT.

The way you responded makes it obvious that you were looking for an argument though....

I simply don't like RT or the attention it gets today.

I hate seeing or hearing a RT tomatometer score, if it's good or if it's bad and this is mainly because I don't like critics, especially Video Critics/Online Critics and bloggers, and Video/Online critics can count towards the RT score if they have enough followers, which is crazy because Video critics are literally just out to get clicks.

Do I think there is s conspiracy. No. Not at all.

Do I think that it's good business practice for a Video critic/Blogger to agree with a trend, in order to garner more clicks, get more attention, gain more followers, and ultimately make more money? Yes.

This is why I said that RT is too corporate for me to really appreciate it.

And for Tv Shows, it is hilarious. There are seasons of "Arrow" that have a 100%, haha, with only 11 reviews, ha.

Somehow, "Arrow" is rated higher than Orphan Black and Breaking Bad, haha.
CavalierTunes
CavalierTunes - 8/13/2016, 3:31 PM
@DrKinsolving - For TV shows, when only a limited amount of reviews are counted, and only a limited number of episodes are reviewed, obviously it's difficult to make an accurate or worthwhile assessment of a series. However, in my opinion, when you get into the bigger movies with hundreds of reviewers the outliers cancel one another out. Because for every douche blogger just trying to hop on board the train of whatever opinion is popular, there's an equally douchey YouTuber that just wants to have a contrary opinion to get views. Generally speaking, the aggregated reviews of the larger movies tend to be accurate. And I don't have a problem with people deciding whether or not they're going to see a movie based on the reviews. Because if you get angry at people who won't see Suicide Squad because of critics, you also have to get angry at people who won't see Ghostbusters for "pandering" or "ruining a classic."
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 8/13/2016, 5:03 PM
@CavalierTunes -

It's simple man, like I said, I don't like the system, and I don't like the attention that RT gets.... and it's not just for CBMs.

Also, the aggregated reviews may tend to be an accurate representation of how the critics rated the movie.... but they are NOT an accurate representation of how the audience rated the movie or how people who are fans of the genre rated the movie.

Your Ghostbusters/Suicide Squad comparison doesn't make sense to me.... First of all, Ghostbusters is best known as a movie franchise and is strictly associated with specific actors who portrayed the characters. Introducing an all female cast to take over was a questionable studio decision from the beginning. Without a doubt there were always going to be people that didn't like the new Ghostbusters.

Suicide Squad on the other hand, is bringing fan favorite comic book characters like Harley Quinn and Deadshot to the big screen in live action for the first time, in an era where CBMs are extremely popular. We have not had a live action Suicide Squad movie yet, so people didn't know what to expect....
CavalierTunes
CavalierTunes - 8/13/2016, 8:26 PM
@DrKinsolving - My point is there's no difference between someone refusing to see Ghostbusters because they are offended by the recasting and someone refusing to see Suicide Squad because of the bad reviews. Both those reasons are equally valid. In fact, I personally would argue not seeing the movie because it's bad is MORE valid than refusing to see a movie because it's a remake, but that's a discussion for another day.

And you don't have to like or listen to Rotten Tomatoes. But I and many other people like it and use it to determine whether a movie is worth our time. Why would you want to have that taken away from us?
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 8/14/2016, 12:38 AM
@CavalierTunes -

Movies are subjective. What is Bad for one person can be Good for someone else. Saying a movie is bad without ever watching it doesn't make any sense, especially if someone is a fan of the actors, director, genre, or material that the movie is based on....

And, I'm not sure if it was your intent, but the way your phrasing your comment is [frick]ing hilarious, haha. "Please don't take away our Rotten Tomatoes". Becoming dependent on a site like RT isn't a good idea, and in today's age it would be just as easy to look up critics that you trust and that share your tastes, as it would be to make a decision based on RT's tomatometer.

But, that's how I feel man. I'm just stating my opinion.

You obviously like Rotten Tomatoes a lot, so more power to you.... I'm not trying to take your Rotten Tomatoes away, I'm just saying that I don't like the system, or the amount of attention that the site gets.
CavalierTunes
CavalierTunes - 8/14/2016, 1:42 AM
@DrKinsolving - If you don't like it, then ignore it. But it gets the attention it gets because other people like it. I nine-times-out-of-ten agree with it. But I'm really getting tired of people arguing that written Tomatoes needs to be shut down or get less attention because it's been hurting DC movies. A lot of people legitimately didn't like those movies. And it's not fair that Rotten Tomatoes should be ignored because it might hurt a movie. By that logic, we should turn off the ratings on Amazon.com because it's not fair that you should prejudge and not like an item before you purchase it. You don't have to listen to anyone's reviews. But there's nothing wrong with others taking reviews into account before they see a movie. I'm not accusing you of being anti-Rotten Tomatoes because of the bad reviews DC is getting, but it's easy to interpret many of the comments on this site in that light.
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 8/14/2016, 3:13 AM
@CavalierTunes -

First of all, your talking in generalities. I never said that RT should get shut down, I said that I don't like the amount of attention it gets today. I also never said that you should turn off ratings for any site.... And, Amazon, does not market itself as a critical consensus, Amazon consists of user reviews.

It should be known too, that the male to female critic ratio of RT is absurd, and there are lots of female critics out there and critics in general that meet RT's criteria that haven't been able to join the site. How is it an accurate representation of a movie being bad or good, when the critics that are rating the movie are not only primarily men, but also when some of the critics rating the movie aren't really interested in the movie in the first place.

And, I honestly believe that movies are subjective. If someone wants to say that a movie, or any piece of art is bad, then they should definitely express that opinion. But, saying a movie is bad without seeing the movie is nonsensical.

There is also a trend with critics throughout history that highlights many movies that received horrible initial reviews, but are not only considered classics today, but have also influenced the majority of films out today.

"It's a Wonderful Life" got bad reviews when it came out, solely due to the time frame (1946) that it came out.... "Citizen Kane" is another movie that initially had a good amount of negative reviews from critics but is now considered one of, if not the greatest movie ever made.

Or, "Vertigo" the Hitchcock film that has taken the throne from Citizen Kane before.... that film was divisive upon release and treated as a bore amongst some critics, but now it is considered a classic.

The list can go on and on....

In my opinion, the critique of art shouldn’t be subject to an algorithm or to a percentage, especially when the critic % and audience % can differ by 40 to 50%. It takes away the fun, value, and overall conversation about art and movies and reduces it to a percentage.
BloodyBed
BloodyBed - 8/13/2016, 6:23 AM
thank you
TwistedKingdom
TwistedKingdom - 8/13/2016, 5:18 PM
@ALostCause - I hoped I wasn't the only one who understood this.
TucksFrom2015
TucksFrom2015 - 8/13/2016, 12:19 PM
I always thought Rotten Tomatoes scores weren't meant to represent a stamp of overall quality, but if you use the scores to gauge the possibility that you'll enjoy the movie in question, RT scores can be an accurate representation of that probability. So if you liked a movie that has a low percentage, or hated a movie that has a high percentage, you need to come to grips with the fact that your opinion is the exception, not the norm.
TwistedKingdom
TwistedKingdom - 8/13/2016, 5:05 PM
@WeddingTux - When I see a high or low Tomatometer score I'll click on the links to see what the critics are saying but I don't see it as stamp of quality either. A lot of people do, however, and that's unfortunate because they use it all the time.
TwistedKingdom
TwistedKingdom - 8/13/2016, 5:02 PM
@DrKinsolving
@CavalierTunes

I really don’t have a problem with RT. It’s not them saying “We’re rating this film this %” yet, somehow, the Tomatometer got interpreted that way and people ran with it. The more people hate on it, the more they show how ignorant they are.

As for critics, professional or otherwise, I’m fine with them. The old saying “Everyone is a critic” is 100% true. Some just have a wider audience than others. I’ve never believed they have the power to seriously impact a film’s performance like some imply. Sure they have influence over audiences but not enough to make everyone pass on a film or flock to it. If that were the case, "Sausage Party" and "Pete’s Dragon" would be clobbering "Suicide Squad" this weekend. Both films are getting terrific reviews.

Audiences make up their own minds on whether to see a movie or not and if a film drops like a stone after opening weekend it’s most likely because it isn’t very good, not because critics laid waste to it.
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 8/13/2016, 5:30 PM
@TwistedKingdom -

I agree with some of what your saying but I also believe that in today's society people tend to put way too much emphasis on RT. And, making comparisons between movies that are completely different, simply due to the RT score is another reason why I can't stand RT, haha.

Sausage party isn't a blockbuster. Not only is it rated R, but it wasn't expected to make what a summer blockbuster would make. The movie looks [frick]ing hilarious though, haha.

And, Pete's Dragon is rated PG, is geared towards kids and most likely would have made some money with that demographic anyway.

Suicide Squad is still doing well at the Box Office. Right now, the projections say that Suicide Squad should still win the weekend. GOTG had a 67.5% 2nd week drop, and Avengers: AOU had a 74.9% 2nd week drop.

Either way, as of now, the audience definitely disagrees with the critics, and Suicide Squad is performing well at the Box Office. And, seriously, for a movie titled "Suicide Squad", that's [frick]ing awesome.
BloodyBed
BloodyBed - 8/13/2016, 5:38 PM
@TwistedKingdom -

"Audiences make up their own minds on whether to see a movie or not and if a film drops like a stone after opening weekend it’s most likely because it isn’t very good, not because critics laid waste to it. "

no one on this site will believe this. critics are paid for by marvel didn't you know?
TwistedKingdom
TwistedKingdom - 8/13/2016, 5:46 PM
@DrKinsolving - I'd really love to know how much of Squad's 2nd weekend numbers are due to repeat viewings. You know, fans going to see it for the 2nd or 3rd time.

Here's a scenario. What if Sausage Party and Pete's Dragon jump ahead of Squad in their second weeks? Movies with great reviews often have staying power. And TMNT lost the top spot to GoTG in its 3rd week just 2 yrs ago.
TwistedKingdom
TwistedKingdom - 8/13/2016, 5:51 PM
@ALostCause - That or Disney has incriminating files on every major critic in the industry. They use them to blackmail critics every time a Marvel and DC movie comes out.
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 8/13/2016, 6:11 PM
@TwistedKingdom -

My dude, I thought you just said that the RT didn't have that much influence over the audience or over box office? Haha

Either way, the audience has still disagreed with the critics for every movie in the DCEU.
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 8/13/2016, 6:14 PM
@TwistedKingdom - Suicide Squad has already passed Star Trek Beyond's WW Box Office too, and Star Trek Beyond got good reviews.

So, despite the good reviews, and Certified Fresh rating, Star Trek Beyond doesn’t seem to be connecting with viewers in the same way as the previous entries of the franchise.
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 8/13/2016, 6:15 PM
These typed of comparisons could be made all day long though, haha
ThunderKat
ThunderKat - 8/20/2016, 11:31 AM
@TwistedKingdom,


Bravo! I look at RT for fun. If you I want a review that jibes with me I go to my favorite critic. Otherwise, I go for the subject and content alone. People are taking movies way too seriously. There will always be movies that a majority of critics don't like. That doesn't mean that you can't enjoy them.

You should mention the low foreheads who are trying to shut down RT because they don't like the results. So ridiculous!
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