EDITORIAL: The Problem With MARVEL STUDIOS

EDITORIAL: The Problem With MARVEL STUDIOS

Recently, there seems to be a large amount of praising for Marvel Studios. I won't spoil the entire article here, but hit the jump to read my take on why Marvel will soon become just another Hollywood studio and what the problem actully is...

Editorial Opinion
By MovieMaster - Dec 28, 2011 07:12 AM EST
Filed Under: Other



Hey all,

I re-watched Captain America earlier, and thought to myself, this could have been sooo much better. Red Skull was one of the shittest villain's I've seen in a CBM. It wasn't thought-provoking or anything. A good movie, nothing more.

You're probably wondering why I'm talking trash about a good movie. I'd just like to address the Marvel VS DC war for a sec, as it's how I need to start the Editorial. What people fail to realise is that there are 2 types of CBM. There's the fun, action-orientated ones that aren't meant to make you think about themes and deeper meaning's. And there are the one's with all that. Some examples of the former are Thor, Iron Man 2, Captain America, X-Men and Spider-Man, while some examples of the latter are Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, X-Men: First Class and V for Vendetta.

Obviously not everybody wants to have to think when they watch a movie, they just want to go and be entertained for 2 hours or so (I'm looking at you Transformers). That's the reason why said franchise makes billions. The reason I'm disappointed in Marvel is because they have the ability to be so much more than their movies. Thor had the chance to be amazing, but there is only one problem: They're scared.

I think the critical mocking of Green Lantern is a HUGE reason why Marvel will want to continue to play it safe. Before 2008, they were in a terrible place. Most of their movies were being badly handled by their respective studios and even though most of the public liked them, if you look behind the visuals there isn't much else there. Marvel knows that the formula they're using now works perfectly fine with the audience, it brings in the dough and usually gets decent reviews. The only reason I can think of as to why Marvel Studios movies so far have been cookie cutter at best (except for Iron Man, I don't know what went wrong after that) is because they're afraid that if they change their formula then the public will reject their movies and they'll fail. Green Lantern and Marvel's previous movies are a good enough example as to why they don't want to change their formula.

With Iron Man they got lucky. I believe this, because they continued that formula with The Incredible Hulk and Iron Man 2 and those movies didn't do so well critically (and in TIH's case, financially as well). So then they found another formula that the audience liked with Thor and Cap and I'm worried that they will continue that pattern with The Avengers. That movie has an even bigger chance than Thor ever had to be great and I know in my heart that they will be afraid to change their movie structure on their biggest project and biggest gamble. If they do change it and Avengers ends up amazing, then I'll admit I was wrong. But look at the facts now and you'll see I'm right.

Another example of this is their history with actors and directors. Terrance Howard, Mickey Rourke, Jon Favreau, Edward Norton, Patty Jenkins and Kenneth Branagh (although he says it was "timing") have all left Marvel, and from reading reports Natalie Portman may be on her way out as well. They want too much control on their projects which is making their team leave the studio. If this keeps up then I'm afraid to say, then it'll be bye bye Marvel.

Yet another example is the recent hiring of Alan Taylor as director of Thor 2. They seem to be going cheap and looking at inexperianced directors. Marvel are essentially being quite mean about this, because the directors know that this is their big break so they'll just follow orders and do their job. They've already done this with Jon Favreau and that turned out okay, so I could be wrong about this. This point doesn't have much backing considering that Favreau made a great movie, and the last movie he directed before that was Elf. Rupert Wyatt falls under that category as well. He was hardly well known and he made one of 2011's best movies (Rise of the Planet of the Apes), so chances are I'm going to be wrong about this. But from the way it looks to me, hiring Alan Taylor was a bad move.

Will The Avengers be good or bad? Only time will tell. Wait please, I didn't say it would be bad! I haven't directly insulted Marvel! The Marveltes, they're outnumbering me! No, no, noooooooooooooooo!


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MoonDoggyX
MoonDoggyX - 12/28/2011, 5:11 AM
Good article and very well said! You can't compare marvel movies to transformers. As far as popcorn summer blockbusters, they are the best. At the same time, Bay had an impressive resume of blockbusters before transformers unlike all of marvel's directors except lettier. Like you said, money is not the reason marvel doesn't geta Bay-level director, they can afford it. They won't because someone of that caliber will wantmore creative control than marvel is willing to give.

Marvel studios is like a race car driver content with being in the middle of the pack. Doesn't to go for first place because they are affraid to crash, but still drives just good enough not to lose there sponsers... lol
MoonDoggyX
MoonDoggyX - 12/28/2011, 5:17 AM
...and as far as Green Lantern, it is the worst thing that could have happened to Marvel because DCs failure only reinforces marvel's "play it safe" attitude when really it was too much studio control that ruined the movie....
xcrementus
xcrementus - 12/28/2011, 5:36 AM
Why is Alan Taylor a bad move? he's directed amazing shows, and he has experience with fantasy themes in Game Of Thrones.
Isn't that the same reasoning behind hiring Joss Whedon? Marvel has been good at hiring directors that play to the character's strengths...Jon Favreau made talky movies, RDJ is talky by nature. Louis Letterier made crazy action, hence Hulk. Kenneth Branagh did Shakespeare and epic imagery, so that's Thor. Joe Johnston loves WWII americana stuff, and Joss Whedon makes great use of ensemble casting.
The "formula" you talk about only relates to origin movies. We're entering phase 2 now, so clearly they can't rehash their movies,and think bigger.
We're still early days, people. Phase 1, remember!
MovieMaster
MovieMaster - 12/28/2011, 5:49 AM
@MoonDoggyX- Thanks for the feedback! People trash either Marvel or DC, but really they shouldn't do it. Not because it pisses people off (even though it does) but because they both rely on one another. If Avengers bombs critically and financially, then you can say bye bye to your Justice League movie.
@Fitz3241- Thanks! I don't know of any solution to Marvel's problem, but they damn well need to find one.
@xcrementus- That's true. But what are Alan Taylor's good qualities? It seems to me that Marvel are looking at Game of Thrones directors purely because they both have similar tones, and to me that is NOT creative thinking!
xcrementus
xcrementus - 12/28/2011, 6:02 AM
Game Of Thrones! Deadwood! Boardwalk Empire! Rome! Lost! Carnivale! Sopranos! Oz!
he's not JUST a fantasy director. He's versatile, and his episodes of Game of Thrones and Boardwalk especially were amazing.

His good qualities? experience in period pieces, character-focused stories, adherence to tight filming schedules and serial directing.

Given that Thor 2 is a piece in a larger puzzle, wouldn't you rather this guy on your side than Patty Jenkins? Honestly after the episodes Taylor has made, he deseerves a shot like this.
MovieMaster
MovieMaster - 12/28/2011, 6:08 AM
@xcrementus- He directed Lost? I'm in. And yes, I prefer him to Patty Jenkins.
MovieMaster
MovieMaster - 12/28/2011, 6:08 AM
Maybe I'm being a little too hard on him. I want to be a director when I'm older and if I was him I would jump at this chance.
superotherside
superotherside - 12/28/2011, 8:34 AM
Well written article but I personally like the "formula" of Marvel Studios pictures. They explore some darker themes, such as with Iron Man being addicted to being alcohol, The Incredible Hulk using your rage for good, Thor an arrogant warrior has to learn to become worth of his power, Captain America a man who follows his ideals no matter what will challenge him. So yeah they explore some dark themes as well. Are they as dark as TDK? No. But they shouldn't be. TDK is a drama, not an action movie. Look at the action in the movie, honestly besides some of the chase scenes, it's at times pretty bad. In fact action wise every Marvel Studios movie has totally owned it. Not that Marvel Studios is great at action scenes in fact I'd say that all of Marvel Studios action scenes are good but not great. But is Marvel Studios films just an action flick that has absolutely hardly any plot, no good acting and is just flicks to be wowed by the CG (looking at you Transformers)? No. IMO they have just the right amount of performance and just fun with the movie. Sure I like drama films like TDK, but it's not something I'd want all the time. But I can watch Marvel Studios films nearly anytime I want and I'll leave with a smile on my face.

What it all boils down to is this: Weather you'd like a drama film which explores darker things etc. Or weather you'd like an action flick which has a good plot and is just a fun movie. And it doesn't matter which one you like better. I personally love both.

Which is better? Well, to me their incomparable. It's like saying which is better at the moment in comics: Daredevil, or Punisher? The answer is they are both good at what they are both trying to portray.

BTW sorry for all the hating you'll be getting for this article... lol. Don't get me wrong I understand what you're saying but personally I like it just the way it is.

6of13
6of13 - 12/28/2011, 8:59 AM
Some of the points in your article are exactly why Marvel SHOULD NOT get the rights back to Fox and Sony owned franchises.
Also, I don't think Spider-Man was a mindless popcorn flick. It had alot of deep themes in it, like Peter carrying the guilt for his uncle's murder.
And I say ditto to what Intruder said - a movie like The Avengers is definitely not playing it safe. In fact the very nature of The Avengers can be be very risky which seems to me the reason why DC scrapped a JLA movie and at the present do not seem to be building up to one.
Big name directors can make crap movies e.g Indian Jones and The Kingdom of The Crystal Skull.
I will agree on Green Lantern having played it safe. I think that the GL movie was watered-down and as a result it was not able to show enough drama, suspense and intrigue (plenty of which seems to be evident in Prometheus). GL just seemed to neatly flow along with everything kinda just being in it's place i.e there was not much to really "stir" the plot (apart from Sinestro putting on the yellow power ring at the end). I think Whdeon has what it takes to "stir" the plot and narrative of The Avengers.
CBK
CBK - 12/28/2011, 9:53 AM
I disagree, Thor and Captain America each had moral lessons with deep meanings in them. Thor was about gaining the maturity and responsibility to fulfill a role you're destined for. Captain America is about the possibilities of giving power to people on extremes of humanity, aka "Skinny" Steve Rogers and the Red Skull.
superotherside
superotherside - 12/28/2011, 10:42 AM
CBK Very well said sir. I completely agree.
MoonDoggyX
MoonDoggyX - 12/28/2011, 10:50 AM
@intruder - "Marvel Studios has barely been around for 4 years and look what they were able to accomplish. 5 Great/Good CBM's on characters nobody even six years ago would have even dreamed of."
Actually its 1 Great movie(IM), 1 good movie(TIH), and 3 ok movies... IMHO
I very much agree with you, though, that no Marvel movies need to be ANYTHING like Nolan's Batfilms...

Honestly, its hard to find many specific flaws with IM2, Thor or Cap. While the movies definitely were not bad at all, they weren't particularly impressive either. When I mean Marvel is holding back I mean in the terms of action. Nothing too stylized, nothing too over the top, no large doses of it. IM2, the action scenes were very shory... Thor, Thor was Bad-ASS!, for 3 minutes, at the beginning of the film. After that, it was lame... Cap, all of the action was generic. No "WOW" factor in any of them. The films had no real personality or style to them...
Irons
Irons - 12/28/2011, 10:53 AM
I think the Avengers is novel enough to avoid the formula. I'm less enthusiastic about the sequels to the individual films. IMO, Thor and Captain America were better than The Incredible Hulk and Iron Man 2, but none of the four have come close to Iron Man.

MovieMaster
MovieMaster - 12/28/2011, 11:08 AM
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Marvel could end up killing themselves. If my theory is correct, then Marvel WON'T change and things could get very bad. Their relationship with their crew seems to be strained and they could develop a very bad name in Hollywood. I wasn't saying that Marvel should attempt to make their movies more like Nolan's Bat movies, as I said at the beginning, there are two totally different types of CBM's. But even though there were some dark themes in their movies, they still seem to be playing it safe to me. And if they continue that pattern... Yikes.
gamecreatorjj
gamecreatorjj - 12/28/2011, 11:34 AM
Marvel Studios is turning into Fox, they hire an inexperienced director for Thor 2, so they can bully him into submission, and make the movie that will make money
gamecreatorjj
gamecreatorjj - 12/28/2011, 11:38 AM
Marvel shouldn't hire people like taylor or branagh just because they have worked with mythical type projects, they should hire a director who understand the outcast story, or somebody who can show the broken bond of brothers, Thor is more of an epic Drama, so get somebody, who can show the drama, but at the same time, give the amazing visuals, some one like James Cameron would be perfect for THOR
MoonDoggyX
MoonDoggyX - 12/28/2011, 11:49 AM
Don't get carried away, intruder...
MovieMaster
MovieMaster - 12/28/2011, 1:01 PM
I'm so sorry that I hurt your feelings Intruder. Should I write one pointing out the faults of DC instead? Will that make you feel better?
whatevillurks
whatevillurks - 12/28/2011, 1:01 PM
I enjoyed Captain America A LOT. I have a thing for pulp. However I would have liked for a deeper look into the danger's of nationalism. It's what seperate's Cap and Skull. Cap can recognize when his country s in the wrong and will step up to it, Skull is the oposite. Hopefully they don't wuss out in the sequel and avoid these theme's.
ElDuce74
ElDuce74 - 12/28/2011, 1:09 PM
Good article but I have to disagree with the thoughts on Captain America. I think it was a great film and a lot better than Thor. Thor had it's cheesy moments. Especially when ever the Warriors Three were in it. Still, both were great films. In all honesty, it falls under Iron Man as the best Marvel film in my opinion.

I also agree that all of these films are origin story's so it does have to be played a little safe. Not even "safe" but not stray to far from the source. If it did, then you would have the same people complaining about it straying.
MovieMaster
MovieMaster - 12/28/2011, 1:12 PM
@Intruder- It's not a troll thread. This is a real problem with Marvel whether you want to believe it or not. Obviously you don't want to believe it, because I know you're probably Kevin Fiege. I didn't think it would take long for you to troll all over here, when did I ever attack you?

@moviemaster - You are 12 years old. You don't have any sound theories. People are praising Marvel Studios for a reason.

That sounds like an attack to me.
MovieMaster
MovieMaster - 12/28/2011, 1:15 PM
Oh wait, I forgot this:

I think the less articles you make the better. How this made main is beyond me, it's straight up [frick]ing troll thread. lol
dahamma
dahamma - 12/28/2011, 1:16 PM
IF anything DC is afraid because Nolans bout to leave them after TDKR and GL was a major fail. Thats why their not doing a JLA film and Marvel is doing Avengers. Cap and THOR to me took alot of balls to make in the first place. Especially Thor, we comic guys know him as the holy Trinity of Avengers but the general populous doesn't. But THor did pretty well.

What I will agree is on the fact that Marvel should try to get some more big name Directors. But then again, they've been doing pretty good so far. There has not been a Marvel Studios movie so far that is a bad movie. I dont really care for the Cap A movie but I cant say it was a bad movie.

"They want too much control on their projects which is making their team leave the studio"

If you say things like this you need to be ready to back them with sources. Because I have not read anywhere that someone left Marvel over because of Creative Control. Creative differences yes (Jenkins) Wanting to do other things yes (John F.) Being a whiny controlling pussy yes (Norton, Howard and Rourke) and timing (Ken B) have been reasons for people leaving.
MassExecutions
MassExecutions - 12/28/2011, 1:16 PM
You know, fantastic scripts that cover both spectacular action and deep, thought provoking drama don't just fall out of the sky everyday. WB was lucky to get Nolan, and Fox was lucky to get Vaughn. If you're going to go with one or the other, I say take the deep drama to another genre because I'm hear to watch superheroes.

Bond movies have a very similar tone to a lot of the marvel films. They've made how may of those? I don't think just the tone is going to sink them, ESPECIALLY if they CAN keep costs down. It is a business.
dahamma
dahamma - 12/28/2011, 1:18 PM
Not attacking yah MovieMaster, just disagreeing strongly lol
Kolossus
Kolossus - 12/28/2011, 1:20 PM
This article is nothing less than the whining of a butt-hurt DC fanboy. Marvel was lucky with Iron Man...please...Your fanboyism is transparent MovieMaster. If you wish to hide it better in the future, don't trash all Marvel Studios films and thrown in Green Lantern (which all but fanboys thought was terrible) to try and save face. The Thor and Cap movies were merely a setup for the Avengers. These films worked for their purpose and were fun to boot. Where I hope these two characters really shine is in their respective sequels, which will hopefully be self-contained narratives.
HelaGood
HelaGood - 12/28/2011, 1:20 PM
im not sure how this deserves to be on the main... this isnt news, its a slanted opinion. when i say slanted i mean that it is totally your perspective and not an unbiased point of view. for example, when you see the hiring of Alan Taylor as something cheap, everyone else on here, especially those who are familiar with Game of Thrones, believes this to be an inspired choice.

great write up, but totally deserves to be in the editorial section, not on main.

and i agree with Intruder... not sure how Pacman is still allowed to be on this site.

NoAssemblyReqd
NoAssemblyReqd - 12/28/2011, 1:20 PM
The MARVEL movies and the DC movies (ok, well, just TDK/R) occupy different spaces in my own CBM fandom. I love both, but can't really think about them at the same level.

The MARVEL movies are enormous fun but deceptively lightweight -- there are threads between them that give them a depth of plotting you don't usually catch the first time around. In that way they are more similar to the STAR WARS movies.

Nolan's movies are thought-provoking in ways that transcend the comic book genre, such that they could almost be thought of as "regular" movies that just happen to have a known superhero as the central figure. I group BB and TDK along with Nolan's own MEMENTO and INCEPTION as sort of a subgenre all to themselves.

I think MARVEL should continue on with their types of film, and not worry too much about going Big Theme hunting.
xSaintx
xSaintx - 12/28/2011, 1:21 PM
Wow... This IS a troll-ish thread. I've read all of @Intruder comments and there is an Abuse Alert every one of them. For... whining? I honestly haven't seen him whine yet. Can we put an Abuse Alert on someone Abusing the Abuse Alert tagging?

My comment is irrelavent. I apologize. This entire article is actually poorly constructed and executed. Marvel Studios isn't that greatest but I applaud their ambition. Can't knock them for that.
MovieMaster
MovieMaster - 12/28/2011, 1:21 PM
@dahamma- Oh I'm always up for a good debate lol, but Ed Norton left over wanting too much creative control :P
MassExecutions
MassExecutions - 12/28/2011, 1:23 PM
I understand some of the individual criticisms of the Marvel movies, but some people seem to act like Marvel HAD some perfect script with more drama and risk, and they CHOSE not to use it. You know, its hard to write a REALLY good movie. That's why their aren't that many of them.
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