TERMINATOR: DARK FATE Director Tim Miller Reveals Why He Wouldn't Work With James Cameron Again

Terminator: Dark Fate was a fun ride but the movie bombed at the box office. Now, director Tim Miller has addressed that while also revealing why he wouldn't work with producer James Cameron again...

By JoshWilding - Nov 23, 2019 12:11 AM EST

Filed Under: Terminator

There's really no reason why Terminator: Dark Fate shouldn't have succeeded as reviews were positive and it had all the makings of a hit thanks to the return of Arnold Schwarzenegger and Linda Hamilton (you really should give it a chance if you haven't already). Unfortunately, a disappointing $29 million opening weekend means the T2 sequel is considered a flop.

Now, director Tim Miller has weighed in on why he believes things ended up going wrong for the film.

"I'm sure we could write a book on why it didn't work," he revealed. "I'm still not sure and I'm processing, but I'm very proud of the movie." Miller went on to address what some of the critics said about Dark Fate and why the baggage of the awful past few films proved to be a problem.

"The things they seemed to hate the most about the movie, were things I can't control. I can't control you didn't like Genysis or you felt betrayed by Terminator 4. I can't help that."

As for his frequent clashes with producer James Cameron, Miller confirmed that they had frequent disagreements over everything from certain lines to the way Legion should be portrayed. "[I suggested] Legion is so powerful, the only way to beat it is going back in time and strangle it in the crib. Jim says, 'What's dramatic about the humans losing?' And I say, 'Well, What's dramatic about the humans winning and they just need to keep on winning?' I like a last stand. It's not his thing."

"Even if I'm going to lose the fight, I still feel this obligation to fight because that is what the director is supposed to do. Fight for the movie. The lights come up, and there was a lot of stuff that I had cut that Jim thought was important and scenes we'd shot that we'd had disagreements on," said Miller. "But the lights come up and Jim says 'we've got a movie.'"

While they're still on good terms, the filmmaker does't want to work with Cameron again. "I can say no, but it has nothing to do with whatever trauma I have from the experience. It's more that I just don't want to be in a situation again where I don't have the control to do what I think is right."

Miller added that he faced similar problems with Deadpool 2. "It became clear that Ryan wanted to be in control of the franchise. You can work that way as a director, quite successfully, but I can't."

It appears as if these behind the scenes issues may have definitely had an impact on why Terminator: Dark Fate didn't resonate with moviegoers and it will be interesting finding out what comes next both for this franchise and Miller. What are your thoughts on his comments? Let us know in the usual place and keep checking back here for updates.

Hit the "View List" button to check out Terminator:
Dark Fate's most must-see Easter Eggs!

Best. Easter. Egg. Ever!

As Easter Eggs go, this one really is phenomenal.

Look closely on Carl's van and you'll see that the number for "Carl's Draperies" is 888-512-1984. Now, that's clever in its own right - May 12th, 1984 is the day Terminator was released in theaters - but do you know what happens if you end up calling that phone number?

Well, you'll hear a recorded message from Carl in which he promises to call you back and signs off with one of Arnie's trademark catchphrases: "Hasta la vista." Seriously, go give it a try!

Arnie's Trademark Sunglasses

Now, you hardly need us to tell you that a certain pair of sunglasses are an iconic part of the T-800's appearance. The T-801 wears them in the movie's opening sequence (which revisits the day of John's death) but later on in the movie, the domesticated robot decides against taking them with him.

It's a cool throwback fans of the franchise will appreciate and it's also at this point we very (and we do mean very) briefly get to hear that familiar Terminator theme from the classic soundtrack.

Terminator 3: Rise Of The Machines

Terminator 3 isn't a movie appreciated by most fans but Dark Fate does pay homage to the T-X Terminator. At the end of the threequel, Arnie's T-850 defeats his technologically superior rival by removing his power core and jamming it into her head to end the villain once and for all.

Well, Dark Fate ends in pretty much the same way with Dani forced to use Grace's power core to stop Rev-9 by, you guessed it, shoving it straight into his head. The T-801 also ends up sacrificing himself by the time all is said and done in order to ensure that this powerful Terminator is stopped.

"Mother Mary"

This isn't a reference to any of the other Terminator movies but it's a cool line regardless. At one point, Sarah Connor refers to herself as "Mother Mary," something which should make sense if you're at all familiar with The Bible and the story of Jesus Christ. Sarah is, of course, referencing the fact that as the mother of John Connor, she too was once prophesised to give birth to a savior.

A less direct nod to The Bible is Rev-9's very name. That appeared to be a nod to chapter nine in the Book of Revelations, a tale which tells the reader about the end times as the sky darkens from smoke from "the Abyss" and a good portion of humanity is "killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur." Needless to say, that sounds an awful lot like a certain robot apocalypse!

Recognise Those Catchphrases?

Throughout the movie, we get a lot of references to some of the franchise's most iconic lines. For example, "I'll be back" is said by Sarah Connor rather than Arnie himself at any time. Grace also gets to deliver a new take on "Come with me if you want to live!" when she first meets Dani.

Even cooler than that, though, is Rev-9 saying "Say, do you know where I can get my hands on a chopper?" in an obvious nod to "Say, that's a nice bike'" from Judgement Day. Our favourite, though, is Grace talking about "100 dead cops" being left if they were to face Rev-9 and that's bound to be an Easter Egg referencing the T-800 slaughtering a whole building full of officers in Terminator.

Marcus Wright

Unless you're a hardcore Terminator fan, something tells us you've already forgotten Marcus Wright's name. Well, he was the human/android hybrid played by Sam Worthington in 2009's Terminator: Salvation. While that timeline no longer exists, Dark Fate arguably still references it.

How? Well, the very existence of Grace (another human/android mashup) proves that the technology which made Marcus what he is was also created in the timeline without Skynet and John Connor.

A Dark Miles Dyson Throwback

This is either a genius Easter Egg or we're reading into things way too much. Now, there's no sign or even a single mention of Cyberdine's Miles Dyson in Dark Fate but there may be a surprisingly, well, dark throwback to Judgement Day. In a flashback to Grace's past and our future, we see a plane falling out of the sky as the world's electronics simply stop working thanks to Legion.

Remember that Miles' plan for the neural net processor was for planes to fly themselves. Well, the emergence of the new Skynet ended up doing the opposite as Legion caused them to literally fall from the sky as the world quickly descended into chaos thanks to this villainous A.I.

A Familiar Song

During a recent interview with SYFY Wire, director Tim Miller actually revealed on Easter Egg he was adamant about including in the film. "The Dwight Yoakam song 'Guitars, Cadillacs,' that's my little Easter egg, because, you know, that's the [Terminator 2] scene that [Schwarzenegger]'s walking into the bar and they play that," the filmmaker explaind. "That was my big one."

In case you missed it, you can hear the song playing when Rev-9 first arrives in the present day.

A Recognisable Interface

As you might expect, Rev-9 has a very technologically advanced way of seeing the world but when we briefly get to see how Carl views things, it's an immediately recognisable reference to T2.

In fact, as he looks up at Sarah and Dani, that switches off in nearly the exact same way as when the T-800 sunk into that molten steel. This was a fun throwback to that classic film for sure.

Which of these Terminator: Dark Fate Easter Eggs was your favourite? Have we missed any that you ended up spotting? Let us know your thoughts in the comments section below.

TERMINATOR: DARK FATE Star Linda Hamilton Reveals Whether She Regrets Starring In The Movie

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TERMINATOR: Linda Hamilton Is Done With Sarah Connor; Thinks It's Time For The Franchise To End

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61 Comments

1 2

Twenty23Three - 11/23/2019, 1:27 AM

Emmm... maybe people’s thoughts on the other films hurt this ones box office but to say that’s why no one liked this film? Buddy you just made a bad movie. He doesn't come great with some of these comments

Battabing - 11/23/2019, 8:00 AM

@Twenty23Three -
You know that Cameron developed the story and was a writer on the film, right?

Spock0Clock - 11/23/2019, 8:12 AM

@Twenty23Three - Every review I've heard is that it's actually pretty good. It just seems that nobody wanted another Terminator movie right now (or maybe ever).

BoW - 11/23/2019, 10:22 AM

@Twenty23Three - Did you actually see it?

Twenty23Three - 11/23/2019, 10:37 AM

@BobbyW - yeah I saw it. I groaned at the opening scene that made the whole of T2 completely pointless and I was bored the rest of the time when they tried to do T2 again but with worse names (legion over Skynet... really?) and a completely unbelievable future saviour. The film was just as bad as Genysis but made a little better because of Linda Hamilton

BoW - 11/23/2019, 1:03 PM

@Twenty23Three - What do you rate the movies in the franchise so far? I haven't seen it myself, so trying to see what the folks here think of it.

SethBullock - 11/23/2019, 7:36 PM

@Spock0Clock - Most people I know hated it and most reviews I read or saw on YouTube said it was the worst Terminator movie by far, even much worse than Genysis.

Twenty23Three - 11/25/2019, 4:03 AM

@BobbyW - personally. My ranking would be
1.T2
2. Terminator
3. Salvation
4. T3
5. Dark Fate
6. Genysis

SaxoWolf - 11/23/2019, 1:34 AM

Demo2nd - 11/23/2019, 2:12 AM

"[I suggested] Legion is so powerful, the only way to beat it is going back in time and strangle it in the crib. - Wait. So he wanted to make a remake of Judgment Day?

DalekCraigWasson - 11/23/2019, 5:34 AM

@Demo2nd - Other way around: Reese in T1 explains and T2's opening shows that humanity definitively 100% wins the war and time travel is Skynet's only ace in the hole left. Sarah tries to kill Miles Dyson in T2 but she isn't a time traveler. This would have been, if Miller got his way, the first time an AI wins in the future and humanity sends back a soldier first, then a Terminator in response, instead of the usual Terminator first, soldier second.

Moriakum - 11/23/2019, 2:23 AM

"It became clear that Ryan wanted to be in control of the franchise." Guess who´s in control now Ryan?

Se4M4NSt4ine - 11/23/2019, 2:52 AM

@Moriakum - Deadpool is the only character outside the MCU deal that really doesn’t need the MCU... like those 2 films did wonders at the box office without Fox getting involved as much (out of fear). I think if Feige is smart, he’ll do the exact same and let Reynolds close up his trilogy.

Humperdink - 11/23/2019, 3:37 AM

@Se4M4NSt4ine -

I've seen the first film multiple times but the second was an incoherent mess. Cable was a wasted one-note character with dubious motivations, the jokes didn't land or barely did, and it felt like they crammed way too much into one film.

Not to mention the fact that the second film needed a re-release to catch up to the box office of the first. After that second film I felt like we didn't even need a third.

If that's what Deadpool's like when Ryan is in control I'm fine with him not having it or at least seeing what someone else can do at the helm.

Moriakum - 11/23/2019, 4:34 AM

@Se4M4NSt4ine - I agree Deadpool is the only character outside the MCU deal that doesn’t need the MCU but keep the control way from Reynolds. The second movie is a self-indulgent mess! The Deadpool movies need to be real Deadpool movies and not "Ryan Reynolds disguised as Deadpool" movies.

Baf - 11/23/2019, 5:34 AM

@Humperdink - I guess my opinion differs. I found both film full of forced humor while the first film's story was lazy and predictable. The second movie was way more funny with Domino's power set in particular proving to be a fresh take on a hero. Cable may not have been fleshed out but a perfect foil for Deadpool.

Scarilian - 11/23/2019, 5:48 AM

@Se4M4NSt4ine -
Deadpool 1 was fine, not great though. If it lacked the highway scene it would have been completely forgettable. They should have Scott Pilgrim'd the movie and had Deadpool play with the meta nature of the film itself.

Deadpool 2 was completely forgettable. I keep find myself re-watching it because i forget i've seen it before.

Nightwing1015 - 11/23/2019, 7:51 AM

@Humperdink - I'll admit Deadpool 2 was too convoluted. But I still think it was funny and a lot of jokes did stick the landing. That's all that matters in terms of comedy films for me anyway.

Se4M4NSt4ine - 11/25/2019, 9:06 AM

@Humperdink - @Humperdink - I think you missed the point, Disney needs Deadpool to make money, Deadpool made money because of how well Reynolds worked as Deadpool. Say what you want, but Reynolds fought for years to make that project to work, he’s earned the right to call DP his passion baby project.

However, Reynolds likes a lot of creative control, if him and Feige clash, Reynolds will walk, and I don’t think DP would make bank if they rebooted it with someone else in the roll. So if Feige is smart (which he is) just let this one slide and let Reynolds close out his trilogy. Done deal, then you can reboot the films with someone new, creating an entire new trilogy in their format that lives and breathes MCU.

I’m sorry but my point still stands, if the other crying MCU bandwagon fans want to cry about it they can, but we’re talking about a film industry that needs to force a film to work, especially after the big pay cut they took to buying Fox.

DEVWoulf - 11/23/2019, 2:41 AM

I don't really care about the franchise anymore. I'm just fine with Terminator 1 and 2 (and The Sarah Connor Chronicles).

billnye69 - 11/23/2019, 5:27 AM

Dark Fate was the best Terminator film since the first 2.

Scarilian - 11/23/2019, 6:02 AM

"'I'm sure we could write a book on why it didn't work,' he revealed. 'I'm still not sure'."

Well;
• Iconic characters such as Sarah Connor being written as idiots
• Attempted to be a replacement for a previous movie
• Re-used the liquid terminator concept for the fourth or fifth time in the franchise
• Stole plot elements from Terminator Genisys
• Poor advertising (Trailers all sucked)
• Actors all felt uninveseted in the film
• Actors were not particularly marketable
• Story felt disconnected and meaningless
• Concept is too generic for long lasting franchise re-use.
• Special effects were varied in quality, very cartoony at times
• Last good Terminator movie was in 1991
• Terminator Genisys was still fresh in peoples minds
• Both prior reboot attempts had failed so lack of trust in franchise
• NOBODY WANTED A NEW TERMINATOR MOVIE

Feel this video kind of summarised it;

NicolausCopernicus - 11/23/2019, 7:11 AM

@Scarilian - I applaud you for not using the "woke" argument. Congratulations for being rational

1 2

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TERMINATOR: DARK FATE Director Tim Miller Reveals Why He Wouldn't Work With James Cameron Again

Terminator: Dark Fate was a fun ride but the movie bombed at the box office. Now, director Tim Miller has addressed that while also revealing why he wouldn't work with producer James Cameron again...

Best. Easter. Egg. Ever!

Arnie's Trademark Sunglasses

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"Mother Mary"

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