TERMINATOR: DARK FATE Producer James Cameron Explains Why He's Responsible For The Movie's Failure

TERMINATOR: DARK FATE Producer James Cameron Explains Why He's Responsible For The Movie's Failure

James Cameron returned to the Terminator franchise to produce Dark Fate, and now admits his insistence that Arnold Schwarzenegger return was a major contributing factor to the movie's poor performance.

By JoshWilding - Dec 15, 2022 10:12 PM EST
Filed Under: Terminator
Source: Deadline (via SFFGazette.com)

After helming 2016's Deadpool, Tim Miller soon became one of Hollywood's most in-demand directors. After creative differences with Ryan Reynolds led to the filmmaker walking away from that movie's sequel, he set about rebooting the Terminator franchise alongside James Cameron - welcome news after the disastrous Terminator Genisys a few years prior.

Terminator: Dark Fate ended up earning positive reviews and a surprising amount of praise from fans, but it didn't make an impact at the box office. With only $62 million in North America and a total $261 million worldwide, the movie was deemed a flop and seemingly put the iconic franchise back on the shelf.

For whatever reason, it just didn't resonate with moviegoers, and Cameron, who directed Terminator and Terminator 2: Judgement Day, has now weighed in on what went wrong. A producer on the movie, after making the mistake of lending Genisys his blessing in a featurette, he's more than willing to put the blame on his own shoulders.

"I think the problem, and I’m going to wear this one, is that I refused to do it without Arnold," he tells Deadline (via SFFGazette.com). "Tim didn’t want Arnold, but I said, 'Look, I don’t want that. Arnold and I have been friends for 40 years, and I could hear it, and it would go like this: 'Jim, I can’t believe you’re making a Terminator movie without me.'' 

"It just didn’t mean that much to me to do it, but I said, 'If you guys could see your way clear to bringing Arnold back and then, you know, I’d be happy to be involved.'"

"And then Tim wanted Linda. I think what happened is, I think the movie could have survived having Linda in it, I think it could have survived having Arnold in it, but when you put Linda and Arnold in it and then, you know, she’s 60-something, he’s 70-something, all of a sudden it wasn’t your Terminator movie, it wasn’t even your dad’s Terminator movie, it was your granddad’s Terminator movie. And we didn’t see that."

"We loved it, we thought it was cool, you know, that we were making this sort of direct sequel to a movie that came out in 1991. And young moviegoing audiences weren’t born. They wouldn’t even have been born for another 10 years. So, it was just our own myopia. We kind of got a little high on our own supply, and I think that’s the lesson there."

That's an interesting way to look at it, but the Avatar: The Way of Water director isn't wrong. The movie relied heavily on the nostalgia factor and, while longtime fans were excited to see the original leads reunite, it was a creative decision that quite clearly didn't have widespread or mainstream appeal. 

While a Terminator video game is in the works, we don't know what the plan is for the franchise in theaters. It seems likely that it will be put to one side for the foreseeable future, though now could be a good time to bring the property back to television as a streaming platform might be the perfect way to put a fresh spin on the war between man and machine.

It's a real shame that the movies have been on the decline since Terminator 2: Judgement Day was released way back in 1991, but a full-blown reboot with no links to the original seems like the best possible option at this stage. 

Be sure to let us know your thoughts in the comments section below!

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mountainman
mountainman - 12/15/2022, 10:11 PM
It was the best of the sequels since the first three, but that isn’t saying much.
mastakilla39
mastakilla39 - 12/15/2022, 10:40 PM
@mountainman - I preferred Terminator Salvation or even part 3 over dark fate, but probably in the minority here. I just hate what Dark Fate did to John and Sarah Connor's legacy, where they shit on it then just tries to do the same exact thing but with a new uncharismatic cast
Fogs
Fogs - 12/16/2022, 2:38 AM
@mastakilla39 - perfect comment.

To me

T2
T1
Salvation
.
.
The rest
Origame
Origame - 12/16/2022, 4:34 AM
@mountainman - I can't agree with that. Dark fate really has nothing redeemable in my mind outside of Linda returning. And there are good things I can say about the other sequels.
mountainman
mountainman - 12/16/2022, 7:10 AM
@mastakilla39 - Oh I certainly think three is better. I tried to indicaste that in my comment.

Maybe I’m too harsh on Salvation. At least it tried doing something original and what they did with Worthington’s charcater was interesting.
thewanderer
thewanderer - 12/16/2022, 8:31 AM
@mountainman - Yea, I actually think Dark Fate is pretty good.


Side note, James Cameron actually took the blame for something???
mountainman
mountainman - 12/16/2022, 9:53 AM
@thewanderer - Yeah but it was a cop out. Him “taking the blame” was just that he wanted Arnold in it. That certainly wasn’t the biggest problem with that movie.
dracula
dracula - 12/15/2022, 10:13 PM
Gabriel Luna with a good script could have been a cool but different replacement as the face of the franchise
dracula
dracula - 12/15/2022, 10:20 PM
Seriously if they want to try another reboot sequel, dont make it a sequel to Terminator 2

Terminator 2 is a dead end. The story was over, there was no reason to do more when they made Terminator 3 and Dark Fate and there is still no reason

No alternate timeline reboots, Genesis was terrible

Here is an idea, do a sequel to the original film. No Halloween crap of just repeating the same stuff in new ways, take the story in a new direction

Even in Terminator 2 the logic of time travel is a bit head scratching, if Kyle is John’s father then it should be a loop, but t2 shows the future can be changed

Go with the idea that the future was changed by the first film. Recast Sarah and young john conner.

They have the technology sooner because of what was left of tha t800, maybe the apocalypse came sooner.

Have it be about Sara and young john surviving in the apocalypse and John being trained
Toecutter
Toecutter - 12/16/2022, 5:42 AM
@dracula - Honestly the biggest mistake was trying to recreate T2 over and over, and failing miserably. If there is another terminator movie, I think they should take it back to basics and make it a sci-fi thriller more like the 1st one. Make it a small contained story, hire a horror director, and make it creepy again. You know, the terminator persecuting two human protagonists and making their lives a living nightmare.
RealTurner
RealTurner - 12/15/2022, 10:22 PM
Maybe his myopia was more related to the dumb opening to the movie that completely negated his own wonderful Terminator 2. Maybe start there.
IAmIronGland
IAmIronGland - 12/16/2022, 12:51 AM
@RealTurner - I remember Cameron was super pissed when Alien 3 completely negated Aliens by killing everyone but Ripley off while the opening credits rolled. Dark Fate did the exact same thing. It makes the 2 best Terminator films completely pointless. The movie itself was decently made but I was completely checked out after they killed him.
Reeds2Much
Reeds2Much - 12/15/2022, 10:23 PM
"It sucked because Arnold Schwarzenegger was in it."
GhostDog
GhostDog - 12/15/2022, 10:35 PM
@Reeds2Much - Tell me! Jim!!!

TyrantBossMedia
TyrantBossMedia - 12/15/2022, 10:29 PM
No, It didn't work because of several reasons and Arnold being there was no an issue it was how he was used.

In no order...

1) It UNDID the entire mythology of the previous movies and the franchise in the first five minutes by killing John Connor.

2) It UNDID the story of the time machines being destroyed and there only being one way through by revealing that there are multiple T-101s sent back which is who ended up killing young John Connor.

3) The made Arnold's character into a weak, neutered male who makes draperies. He was relegated to an obscure and useless role.

4) He tried to make the movie WAY too Woke. Cameron who was always very good at writing very strong women forced his hand on this one and replaced ALL men with women except for the inept Terminator (Arnold) and the villain (the modified T-1000) that was in no way intimidating.

5) The young hispanic girl was not future of the world by giving birth to the man who will lead the resistance against the machines, but she was THE savior and a tiny little thing who had no training to any development to show that she is tough or some kind of warrior.

But the biggest mistake he made was............6) Making the movie.
PartyKiller
PartyKiller - 12/16/2022, 1:10 AM
@TyrantBossMedia - True points. One thing that helped lead to such woke trash, is studios do monitor social media for trends and they have seen things there that make them think there is a great audience for woke, when there isn't one. And the fakery that was going on with Twitter would be the social media that influenced them the most.

On a smaller scale, manipulation on Twitter by Zack Snyder, Ray Fisher and others led WB to think there were a huge amount of people wanting the Snydercut when there wasn't. The snydercut was made and flopped.

Even manipulation on much smaller platforms has caused damage to TV series and movies. Emily Bett Rickards got promoted over Katie Cassidy on Arrow because someone knew Arrow producers were monitoring then popular Tumblr, and they staged a massive Emily Bett Rickards fanbase. Something I think Rickards may have been involved with.

In the past there have been actors who lost out on big roles because studios saw online hate campaigns against the actors, something the role winning actors may have been involved with.

Woke was never in. But for years Twitter made it seem that way. And studios, celebrities, politicians, sports stars all feared getting woke mobs on Twitter mad at them. And so they catered to them. But everytime a big movie came out that was made for Twitter mobs, they underperformed, because the millions of usernames were controlled just thousands.
GhostDog
GhostDog - 12/15/2022, 10:29 PM
Mature Terminator animated series with Love+ Death + Robots vibe. Do it.
TheVandalore
TheVandalore - 12/15/2022, 10:32 PM
The truth is that Terminator as a franchise will never recapture the magic of Terminator 2.

The first film was a fun action Sci fi film with a cool premise and cutting edge cgi and not much else. T2 was lightning in a bottle, Arnold with the buzz cut, black leather and shades on a Harley with a shot gun, the indestructible robot killing machine tasked to protect a degenerate kid and his psycho mom from an alien-feeling liquid-metal shape shifting assasin from the future across early 90s California.

You can't recreate that. T2 is just a perfect film for its time.

So anything else you do with this franchise has to understand that you won't be attempting to recreate T2, and anything in this universe has to take risks and be inventive, while understanding nothing they come up with will be better than T2. You can still have fun in thus universe if you want, but don't for a second think you will just continue anything in T2 organically. Best to move on from that mindset. Just like STAR WARS best move on from Skywalker stuff, Terminator should move on from the Connors completely as linchpins of the series.
GeneralZod
GeneralZod - 12/16/2022, 12:09 AM
@TheVandalore - "T2 was lightning in a bottle ...."

Bingo.
JonAwesome
JonAwesome - 12/15/2022, 10:36 PM
The older Arnold Terminator that learned to be almost human was the best part of that movie!
DarkModeDan
DarkModeDan - 12/15/2022, 10:39 PM
Full disclosure; I haven't seen all of Dark Fate yet, but if I had to make an uniformed guess I'd bet there were two big things that killed it for the audience:

1.) An overall lack-of-confidence in the franchise

2.) How they handled John Conner

First, there have been way more disappointing Terminator films then there have been good Terminator films, at least in the eyes of the audience. Rise of the Machines, Salvation, Genisys, all varying degrees of flawed.

And second, murdering John Conner immediately after the events of T2 was a miserable idea. It makes the BEST film of the franchise feel meaningless in hindsight. I remember the director justified it by saying he didn't think fans would want to see a John Conner who grew up to be a regular person.

But I actually think that would have been way better! Briefly showing us "car dealership John Connor" or something could make it clear that it's not his fight anymore: he did his part, he earned his happy ending, and now it's someone else's turn to take on that challenge.

...I mean, sure we probably didn't need a 70-year old T-800 either, but I wouldn't blame Arnold's re-re-return for how this film went down.
tmp3
tmp3 - 12/15/2022, 10:40 PM
t2 is one of the greatest action movies of all time, in part because cameron had honed his craft on both terminator and aliens beforehand. despite this, for some reason they keep giving the keys to this franchise to the most inane, boring journeymen directors alive. mcg? the thor 2 guy? the directing was the least impressive part of deadpool, but he got handed $180m to go wild.
a non-cameron terminator movie is always going to be a tough task because there are so few legitimately great american action directors right now. mcquarrie, stahelski, and gareth evans are the only ones i can immediately think of
GhostDog
GhostDog - 12/15/2022, 10:45 PM
@tmp3 - A Leigh Whannell Terminator film would go hard

tmp3
tmp3 - 12/15/2022, 10:59 PM
@GhostDog - oh [frick], you’re right on the money with whannell - he has the potential to be incredible. can’t wait for whatever he does next
GhostDog
GhostDog - 12/15/2022, 11:04 PM
@tmp3 - he left the Escape from New York sequel but is doing a Green Hornet and Kato flick
tmp3
tmp3 - 12/15/2022, 11:53 PM
@GhostDog - oh [frick], getting into lee’s shoes gonna be a huge ask. if he finds the right dude, he could really do something special.
also jon hamm would have been perfect for any number of radio serial characters, including hornet, but he’s aged out sadly
tmp3
tmp3 - 12/15/2022, 11:56 PM
speaking of lee, that bruce lee biopic by ang lee sounds bonkers. man sent his son to asia to train for like 3 years for this movie, insane
SimplyAz
SimplyAz - 12/16/2022, 3:31 AM
@tmp3 -

You hit the nail on the head with the choice of bad Directors.

The writer of T3 and Salvation wrote on his blog about how he [frick]ed up Terminator twice

http://johnbrancato.blogspot.com/2009/10/how-to-beat-twice-dead-horse.html?m=1
Truoptimusprime
Truoptimusprime - 12/15/2022, 10:42 PM
In my mind the only 2 terminator movies is 1 and 2 none of the other movies exist.
ossie85
ossie85 - 12/15/2022, 10:52 PM

Even though the film was ok, it failed financially because of the films before it.

This was essentially the fourth 'Terminator 3'. How did they expect audiences to react? "Fool me three times, shame on you... fool me four times..."
TheWalkingCuban
TheWalkingCuban - 12/15/2022, 11:16 PM
@ossie85 - cool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, can’t put the blame on you, fool me 3 times, 4, 5, 6 times, grab the beretta let it rain on you
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