@OmegaBlack13 - I think it was just a pointless twist that somebody thought was clever and unexpected. "You were expecting a supermodel, but look, it's a very normal looking dressed down girl!"

There are definitely shades of Ultimate MJ in the MCU version, but that never felt like MJ to me either. She's much more girl-next-door in that version. Granted, I don't think we ever met 616 Mary Jane before college, so it's theoretically possible to posit she had a total makeover in her late teens before she tells Tiger he hit the Jackpot.

Romita was apparently inspired in his design of Mary Jane by Ann-Margaret in Bye Bye Birdie, and a running theme for her character in that film was living in that gray area of wanting to graduate into full sexual womanly maturity while still being innocent and naive. And I think there's a lot of classic Mary Jane in that performance (especially imagining what Ann-Margaret's character would be like after a few break-ups and hook-ups).



Again, I'm torn because I love what Zendaya is doing in these movies. But I also have so much deep affection for Mary Jane Watson's character in the comics. She seems at first blush to be a superficial party girl, but she has so much depth and sincerity and grit to her (born out by the trauma she experiences mostly due to her relationship with Peter). He puts her through the ringer so much that she's this glorious hard-as-nails codependent ride-or-die icon by the 90's.

To me, Mary Jane is everything that those weirdos celebrating Joker/Harley's #relationshipgoals wanted to see. Both good and bad.

She's an amazing character, and to see all of her complexity overshadowed by Raimi's airheaded drama queen and the MCU's totally-bizarro take on the character just depresses me. She deserves to be every bit as consistent and iconic as Lois Lane (mostly) is.

@Spock0Clock - yes!!!!

@OmegaBlack13 -
She isn't Mary Jane Watson, that's for sure.

@OmegaBlack13 - One of the things I love about Peter and MJ is so much of what draws them together is that shared grief of Gwen dying. This moment solidifies for me what makes MJ such an amazing character. Before this, she'd been that fickle frivolous girl playing at being a woman. And then, suddenly, for just a moment, she's not.



This article sent me looking for details and images for my own comments on MJ, and I just discovered an entire series of articles chronicling her comic history that I'll probably spend all day reading. Just skimming it, I found this quote from Gerry Conway.

[Gwen Stacy] was a nonentity, a pretty face. She brought nothing to the mix. It made no sense to me that Peter Parker would end up with a babe like that who had no problems. Only a damaged person would end up with a damaged guy like Peter Parker.

I don't know how damaged I think Mary Jane really is at the outset. She's certainly been callous and would be later traumatized by her front-row seat to Peter's perpetual psychological decline. But she's clearly drawn to damaged people.

But to have their relationship begin in earnest with their shared grief and her courage and generosity and understanding sets the tone perfectly. It's not healthy, but it's what both of them needed. She could have flaked, but she stayed. In order to grow up, she needed people to need her. And (to call back to Bye Bye Birdie again), being a woman isn't about mascara and curves and whistles and pink champagne anymore. Being a woman became about offering a boy a shoulder to cry on.

@JonC - I see that. I've not read every single Spidey comic, and the ones I did read were decades ago so I'm more than a little hazy. Maybe there were more overt examples of her being damaged in a similar way to Peter. But still, I wouldn't go so far as to say bad parenting equals "damaged person", though. (I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but just connect what you said back to Conway's quote.)

@MalseMarcel - She is. Don't let Disney/Marvel fool you.

@Odin - It's not as dramatic as the movies, but bigger stronger kids will still mess with ones that can't really defend themselves. This can also happen at STEM schools, but I grew to appreciate that they made the bullying more verbal than the comics. Still, Flash could've been casted to be bigger than Peter.