10 Years Later: Spiderman 3- The Movie That Changed Our Lives

10 Years Later: Spiderman 3- The Movie That Changed Our Lives

For the anniversary of one our the most hated ever 'threequels', I've decided that a re-visit was in order to see if it holds up better or worse.

Editorial Opinion
By RobGrizzly - May 06, 2017 09:05 AM EST
Filed Under: Spider-Man 3
Spider-Man 3 was one of the most anticipated movies of 2007. The first film was a watershed moment for superhero movies, and the second is considered one of greatest comic book movies ever made (not to mention one of the best sequels ever.) It stood to reason that after the monumental triumphs of its predecessors, the third movie was on track to similar success. And why not? The advertisements leaned heavily on a popular storyline fans couldn’t wait to see: The black suit, and the alien symbiote, Venom. After Green Goblin and Doctor Octopus, Venom is another major player, and one of Spiderman’s greatest foes. Plus, the idea of going a little bit dark, and corrupting our charming hero had some great storytelling potential. Unfortunately, what we wanted and what we ended up getting were two very different things. So what happened?

I should preface this by saying, when I first watched this movie, I actually liked it a lot. Like, A- a lot. I loved the action sequences, I loved Spidey having to deal with multiple villains (which happened a lot in the comics) I loved the casting of Sandman, and the heart of the film, and how the story threads carried through, and how everything wrapped up. Hell, I was even amused at the casting of Eddie Brock (because I saw the irony in how much of a Peter Parker Topher Grace really is- Sam Raimi might have been going for anti-Tobey Maguire with that one). I only had a few issues: Gwen Stacy was nice to see, but she didn’t have much to do. Retconning Flint Marko as Uncle Ben’s killer was lame. And a misguided approach to Dark Peter; Emo style + Jazzy douche all culminated in a weirdly awkward DANCE sequence that should never have been put to film. But all in all, I had a good time, which might have been helped by the audience I saw it with.

But were we wrong? Like so many franchises that win our favor, sometimes we want a movie to be good so badly, that we just will it to be so in the moment. Because although my audience came out of opening weekend buzzing, public opinion on Spider-Man 3 took a nosedive pretty fast. And over time, it only got worse. As of this writing, it has a 63% on Rotten Tomatoes and a 59% Metacritic. Most fans consider it a massive disappointment, and one of the worst comic book movies have to offer. Are they being too harsh? Am I being too easy on it? I've decided to look back...

I’ll start with the good. A lot of what I liked… I still like. As a fact, CGI ages, so some of the effects obviously don’t look as great as they used to, but for the most part, the action is still great; While nothing quite tops the train fight in Spider-Man 2, the action here trumps anything in the first Spider-Man, and I’d go so far as to say it is the most fluid and exciting of the trilogy. The two biggest highlights are the fights with Harry, both of which gives us an opportunity to see more character with Peter in the fights than we’ve seen before. I was particularly fond of Peter trying to save his engagement ring mid-battle. Peter wanting to get married is nice progression from the previous films, and while he is supportive of MJ, he is also oblivious to signs she is unhappy because he’s so swept up in his own success. Once in the black suit, this is amplified, and while I didn’t care for the emo/jazz thing, I did like seeing Peter be more aggressive at work or with women. Sure, it’s played for laughs sometimes (DANCING outside a clothing store), but the serious beats still land when they need to...like when he hits MJ.

That leaves the real problem most people have with this film: The villains.

Teased at the end of Spider-Man 2, Harry Osborne goes full villain for the franchise’s final act… except when he doesn’t. Inexplicably, he is conveniently given amnesia for a chunk of the movie (one of my biggest pet peeves) but magically gets his memory back when the script needs him to. From the start, he’s relentless in his pursuit of Parker- and that’s awesome! His New Goblin concept design is shitty, but he’s out for blood, and it’s fun to see a villain that knows who Peter is, and can play games with him. But it seemed like the writers were afraid to keep that up, so they needed to sideline him, to get the other plots rolling. So James Franco gets to do his happy stoner smile, and DANCE with Mary Jane. Perhaps these moments serve to remind audiences of how great a friend he used to be. But then he gets to be bad again. So he has to die, but not before being good one last time. Somehow the story couldn’t quite figure out how they wanted to use him, and it’s a shame because he deserved better. On the positive side, the idea of Spidey teaming up with a partner to fight overwhelming odds, is a nice nod to a theme of the comics.
Related image

The heavy of this film is Flint Marko’s Sandman. He’s an escaped con trying to raise money to see his daughter. It’s a sweet little backstory to humanize him, and the ‘Birth of Sandman’ sequence is beautiful and haunting, but he surprisingly doesn’t have that much screen time, or any real development outside of that bedroom visit. From here on, he’ll be robbing armored trucks and punching Spiderman. Because he’s so disconnected from the rest of the stories, the writers straight up force a personal connection with Parker by making him the real killer of Uncle Ben. This still doesn’t work for me. Not only does it [frick] with the temporal aspects of how that night went down, but it also undercuts the entire genesis of why and how Peter became Spiderman in the first place. I suppose Flint gives Parker an excuse to funnel his anger when he gets corrupted, and it serves a lesson about revenge, and forgiveness, but Peter already learns about revenge in an authentic way from his greatest mistake. Now Spiderman’s whole origin story is a misunderstanding.

Reportedly, Raimi was a big Sandman fan and wanted to use him, but wasn’t a big Venom fan and didn’t understand the character (in which case, get someone to help who does)- The studio pushed for Venom and that’s why the movie is so bloated. It was old-school fandom vs new school fandom, but as it stands, I think the studio was actually RIGHT, and Raimi, director or not, should have dropped Marko. Fans would take Venom over Sandman any day of the week, and the story even dictates that the black suit be the focus (this was even teased at the end of Spider-Man 2 with the introduction of JJ Jameson’s astronaut son, who accidentally brings the symbiote back from space). Spider-Man 3 is all about Parker trying to maintain finally being happy, getting too arrogant, and eventually hurting the ones he loves. Flint Marko had no real purpose in this story, and I strongly feel the movie would have been better not if Venom was cut, but if Sandman, was cut, for a more focused film.
Image result for spiderman 3 venom

The reason I wish Venom was more prominent is because he’s handled the weakest, and he could have been so much better. My amusement of the little dork aside, I can still admit Topher Grace sat as the worst cast character in a CBM until Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor took the crown. This Eddie Brock just isn’t intimidating in the least, and even if Brock wasn’t totally screwed for screen time, his leap from snarky rival, to absolute hatred doesn’t track. Nothing is shown in the character that he would embrace evil so fully. Eddie is just never given anything substantial besides popping up randomly at inopportune times. This is a shame because there are several facets to making this work: The alien symbiote is handled decently, the black suit is handled decently (more or less), and Full Venom onscreen for the finale is kind of Spider-Man 3’s best part. But Eddie is the connective tissue between those phases, and they left him as an afterthought.  

At the end of the day, I think Spiderman 3 suffers from what happens to most Part 3’s after two successful predecessors- for whatever the reasons, they crumble under the pressure. It’s not the best movie, but not the worst thing ever either, as some exaggerators are inclined to say. There are parts of Spidey3 that deserves every bit of criticism it gets, and parts that don’t. Unfortunately, the series was rebooted afterwards, despite some interest in a 4th film. That gives it the distinction of being a franchise-killer (a label I don’t agree with because they made a [frick]-ton of money and wrapped up the story anyway), and it's failings are a lesson learned for all CBMs going forward. At the end of the day, I’d say Spider-Man 3 is middle-ish, but from a history of pretty bad threequels, perhaps it's one of the better ones. Incidentally, here is my ranking of CBM Threequels:
  1. The Dark Knight Rises
  2. Captain America: Civil War
  3. Iron Man 3
  4. Spider-Man 3
  5. Batman Forever
  6. X-Men Apocalypse
  7. Blade Trinity
  8. X-Men: The Last Stand
  9. Superman III
Image result for spiderman 3

That's not so bad!
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KWilly
KWilly - 5/6/2017, 1:52 PM
Spiderman 3 had its moments, but it definitely imo was the worst outta the 5 Spidery flicks. That's just me. And tbh, the CGI still holds up well to today. Compared to Spiderman Homecoming that is...

Philip
Philip - 5/7/2017, 1:16 PM
@KWilly - I'd put TASM2 under it actually. My ranking would be:

1. Spider-Man 2
2. TASM
3. Spider-Man
4. Spider-Man 3
5. TASM 2

And I fully expect Homecoming to find it's place somewhere between 3 and 4.
0mega140
0mega140 - 6/1/2017, 4:34 PM
@Philip - TASM2is much better than Spiderman 3.
TASM2 not ahve a stupid emo peetr or dance scenes.
Philip
Philip - 6/2/2017, 4:41 AM
@0mega140 - No, but it does have Electro playing Itsy Bitsy Spider during a fight. And stalker-Peter.

Although somewhat wasted, I liked Franco's Goblin and Sandman (apart from tying him to Uncle Ben).

SM3 [frick]ed up Peter and Venom badly.
TASM2 [frick]ed Peter, Electro, Rhino, the Osborns and Goblin.

I still like more about SM3 than I do TASM2. Don't hate either one of them though, but they're not good.
0mega140
0mega140 - 6/2/2017, 9:34 AM
@Philip - electro always was a pathetic villain. But venom in spiderman 3? a tiny and whinging bitch.


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=773339406128831&set=pb.100003583353661.-2207520000.1496420918.&type=3&theater

Do you know what Peter was like in comics? As the character of Andrew Garfield in TASM2. They even made a reference to the comic, where Peter travels to London to reconcile with Gwen.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=773339406128831&set=pb.100003583353661.-2207520000.1496420918.&type=3&theater


Rhino and electro are equal in physical appearance and personality to the Ultimate dle comic version:https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRMENCx3kuqEJ8H13-CViQe94Gm6vUe9hRkUdeLsHdpki1kotYe

I would like to know in which comic sandman kills Uncle Ben and that Uncle Ben dies accidentally and does not blame the malice of a criminal.

SM3 SM3 [frick]ed up Peter and Venom badly But also ruined the death of uncble ben. the green goblin (a pathetic green goblin who not won ant fught and list againts the emo peter) gwen stacy and MJ.

TASM2>>>> SM3

Philip
Philip - 6/2/2017, 10:32 AM
@0mega140 - That's still just your opinion. Not an absolute fact. Just as it is my opinion that TASM2 is the worst Spider-Man film we've seen so far. It's just filled with cheesy coincidences.

Rhino got [frick]ed because he barely got to be in the film, and for the part that he was, he was just there to be ridiculed. Didn't have anything to do with his look.

Same with Electro. His look wasn't an issue. He was, as you say, pathetic. That was the issue.

And Garfield looked great and acted great as Spider-Man. I prefer him over both Holland (from what we have seen) and Tobey. But he spends almost all of TASM2 stalking Gwen, after pushing her away.

And like I said, I didn't care for Sandman being tied to Uncle Ben's death in SM3. It was forced, and a bad idea, but other than that, Sandman was a pretty good antagonist.

As for Goblin, both SM Harry and SM3 Goblin was better than what we saw of Harry and Goblin in TASM2. All five minutes of it.

Also, what happened to you in that last paragraph? Did you have a stroke or something? It's barely readable.
0mega140
0mega140 - 6/2/2017, 11:50 AM
@Philip - very cheesy cpincdences? like the enrire trilogy of sam raimi?

The same sam raimi hate the movie. And that not is a opinoon is a FACT-

Do you basically complain that they used rhino as they have used it in every animated comedy series? In his first appearance of the universe 616 spiderman humiliates him. Not only does he humiliate him, he manages to make his rhinestones outfit stay in his underwear.


The conceptoof electro wasalywas a pathetic dude with Low self-esteem and easily manipulated. That has always been the character's canon

Sorry but in 5 mintues of TASM2 dnaiel dheaan was muche better Not about acts like Defoe. Has better motivations than Franco. Do not forcibly redeem yourself like James Franco. Has better scenes of epla and most importantly. HE WON!! He killed gwen James franco nisiqueraparecia a "goblin". In 5 minutes james fracno become a good huy with a cheesy coincidene: The butler knew all that time. Why do not you tell him before? So we avoided a harry osborn with the most ridiculous plan of all the villains of spiderman: that MJ breaks with Peter on a bridge.

And sandman never was a good antagonist. His motivations are quite ridiculous and with a boring personality. So yes

TASM2 is a much better film en any aspect.


Philip
Philip - 6/2/2017, 1:48 PM
@0mega140 - Proofread that, and then I might be able to take you seriously. Or at least, you know, understand what you are trying to say.

Still not an absolute fact that SM3 is worse than TASM2. Still just your opinion. Just like it is my opinion that SM3 is better than TASM2. Whether Raimi hates it or not is irrelevant.
0mega140
0mega140 - 6/2/2017, 1:50 PM
@Philip - SM3 is just worst than TASM2 is a fact.

Like is a fact than batman and robin is worst than batman forever ot The Dark Knight Rises.

When a director He accepts that he is wrong he is simply wrong. It would be to be a blind fanboy of that director defending something like the emo peter or the dance scene.
Philip
Philip - 6/2/2017, 1:57 PM
@0mega140 - I haven't defended neither emo-Peter nor the dance scenes. I've simply stated that despite it's many flaws, TASM2 is even more flawed, IN MY OPINION, and therefore it is, IN MY OPINION, worse than SM3.

And no, it's not a fact. If every single credible metric available ranked TASM2 above Spider-Man 3, it'd almost be a fact. But that's not the case. And ultimately, quality of art is subjective anyways.

Again, please start proofreading your comments before you post.
Philip
Philip - 6/2/2017, 1:58 PM
@0mega140 - Also, if you're trying to call me a "blind fanboy" of Raimi, you couldn't be more wrong. I love Marc Webb, but TASM2 is the worst Spider-Man film I've seen.
0mega140
0mega140 - 6/2/2017, 2:02 PM
@Philip - no. thats is spiderman 3. Because not exist a main villain. not exist a real focus in the film (is dark? is comedy? is a parody? is a horror?)

The worst version fo peter parker and gwen stacy. the worst version fo veno, Rhino and electro always was a villains froms List B. are only jobbers and Venom a great villain Completely ridiculed and humiliated


TASM2 is much better
Philip
Philip - 6/2/2017, 2:05 PM
@0mega140 - Do I need to explain to you what an opinion is?
0mega140
0mega140 - 6/2/2017, 2:21 PM
@Philip - dude.relax. is only a debate
Philip
Philip - 6/2/2017, 2:48 PM
@0mega140 - I'm very relaxed. I'm genuinely asking if I need to explain what an opinion is to you.
RobGrizzly
RobGrizzly - 5/6/2017, 7:36 PM
I'd probably still take Spidey 3 over the Amazing movies. Or at least Amazing 1. I think TASM2 made a lot of improvements over the first. (I should probably do another one one on that!)
0mega140
0mega140 - 6/1/2017, 4:35 PM
@RobGrizzly - Nah The two movies of TASM is mich better than spiderman 3: better romance. better green goblin and not emo peter.
BloodyBed
BloodyBed - 5/7/2017, 6:40 AM
damn, your little list reminds me of just how bad threequels are. my favorite is im3 by a looongshot. underrated amongst cbm fans.
RobGrizzly
RobGrizzly - 5/8/2017, 5:42 PM
@ALostCause - Yea, threequels just don't seem to deliver like they should.
Forthas
Forthas - 5/7/2017, 9:05 PM
Excellent write up! I think that Spider-man 3 tried to do to much with too many moving pieces. If it just focused on one story as opposed to several, it might have come together better. It was tolerable as far as films go but it really did not live up to the previous films.
RobGrizzly
RobGrizzly - 5/8/2017, 5:55 PM
@Forthas - Thanks! And exactly. It was overstuffed, which is a shame because it has some nice ideas.
ThunderKat
ThunderKat - 5/20/2017, 6:30 PM
I mostly agree. Too much, too little time. "Undoing" Ben's murder was the worst choice. Because I love Spider-Man, I was more offended and irritated than the whole dancing thing and repetitive plot (saving MJ from the villain on high).

Yet, the Webb/Garfield movies have no charm, and less fun.
0mega140
0mega140 - 6/1/2017, 4:37 PM
@ThunderKat - what are you talking about? If they have charm and fun and do not need to put dance scenes we do not emos peters about it.

Best romance. Characters best writings and a spiderman that if ahce jokes. A spiderman who enjoys being a hero. Not a boring type without charisma. The single scene of the car thief has more fun than the whole raimi trilogy.
ThunderKat
ThunderKat - 6/9/2017, 4:38 PM
@0mega140 - We agree to disagree. I did my best not to compare in order to be fair to everyone. Heck, why wouldn't a guy named Webb make a great Spidey movie!

Well, he didn't. I just don't see the chemistry between Garfield and Stone. She's always likeable. He was tepid.
Sure, the car thief scene was amusing. It doesn't make a whole movie. That's before we even get to the villains. I'd take Venom two more times before I'd ever want to see Electro again. And Rhino...If they'd just not over played it. I like the idea of armor/robot rhino. The actualized character was just a waste of Giamati's time.
0mega140
0mega140 - 6/12/2017, 7:24 PM
@ThunderKat - That you do not see it does not make it true. Even the most hater of the TASM franchise knows that it is the most solid and palpable relationship garfield and stone.Unlike mcguire and his MJ: forgettable and soft.

Venom I prefer an electro equal to the ultimate comics with a best Better characterization and better fights than a skinny venom that hates spiderman because I steal from his NO-girlfriend.

The idea of rhino is only a cameo for the 3 movie. It was supposed to be a surprise to the viewer that the imbeciles of SONY ruined with their spoilers in the trailers and still was 1000 times better than Venom or should say Erc Forman because it appears with the face uncovered 70% of the time.

Villains of TASM2>>>> eric forman


dagenspear
dagenspear - 5/30/2017, 3:25 AM
An Analysis Of Spider-Man 3, Part 2: The Villains, Their Narrative Purpose, Thematic Purpose And Characterization…

The whole point of Sandman is to show how Peter can be a hypocrite in this situation. The whole point is that he was wrong for this. It is to show a villain who is not evil, but is someone who wronged the hero, and how that doesn’t automatically make him evil, or deserving of death. Much like the man who died in SM 1. Him being Uncle Ben’s real killer or not doesn’t make that action right, which again, is the point. Peter is not always in the right. He does wrong things. And makes huge mistakes. Flint’s team up at the end is about how Spiderman’s gotten in his way twice by this point and the only way to stop him from interfering a second time is to take him out.

Eddie shows to be the darker version of Peter, of what Peter could be. Just like Harry sees the good man he could be by losing his memory, Peter literally sees the monster he could be in its physical manifestation in Venom. Eddie, in this movie, doesn’t see how his actions are wrong, much like Peter in a lot of cases in this film. Again, that’s the point: That is bad. And it’s something that exists in Peter as well in this movie: An unwillingness to admit he’s wrong. Again, it emphasizes the simple fact that Peter is not always right.

Harry was never meant to be the main villain. There’s no story there. It’s just GG #2 with an added dose of revenge. That’s nothing new and doesn’t bring any new themes or ideas into play. The amnesia has a purpose. It shows us the kind of man he was or would’ve been without this darkening influence on him of his father, and it shows Harry the kind of man he’s capable of being. It also plays into the whole “everyone’s happy until their problems come back to bite them in the butt” aspect of the film. This happens to all the characters. The main ones anyway. For Peter, it’s his guilt and anger at the loss of Uncle Ben. For Mary-Jane, it’s her insecurities and unresolved issues with her father and her sense of self. For Harry, it’s his desire for revenge and unresolved issues with HIS father and HIS sense of self. That’s actually a really good reasoning for Mary-Jane and Harry connect so easily as they do. The amnesia is also something straight out of the comic book: When Norman loses his memory, he becomes sane until a large amount of stress causes another psychotic break and brings back his memories of being the Green Goblin. Harry also doesn’t snap for no reason. The kiss he and Mary-Jane have triggers it, partially. Although it’s never stated, I believe that until then Harry had been living in ignorant bliss of any of his resentful feelings towards Peter. But when the kiss happens and Mary-Jane takes off, because she feels guilty, Harry envies Peter and feels anger and resentment towards him for having something he can’t, which triggers the flood of everything else. I do think Harry’s turn into friend is a little fast, but it’s like Peter says about choice at the end: Harry, now having seen the good man he can be without his father’s influence, CHOOSES to be that. He CHOOSES to be the best version of himself because that’s what’s right and Harry’s knows it. That’s Harry’s arc: Finding a way out of the shadow of his father. He literally does that. Where Norman tried to kill Spiderman with his glider and accidentally killed himself, Harry CHOSE to throw himself in front of his glider to save Peter, getting himself killed. He CHOSE to be the best version of himself in that moment: Not Norman Osborn’s son, or even the Green Goblin’s son Goblin Jr., but Harry Osborn Peter’s friend.

Have a very great day!

God bless you all!
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