An Open Letter to Andrew Garfield

An Open Letter to Andrew Garfield

In answer to his question "why people didn't like The Amazing Spider-Man 2."

Editorial Opinion
By VIRILEMAN - Sep 13, 2014 04:09 PM EST

Let me start by saying I loved the first movie. Spider-Man 2.1 by Raimi and The Amazing Spider-Man 1 by Webb are my favorite comic book movies of all time. Let me say next that I didn't HATE the second movie. I was however very disappointed. Spider-Man is by far my favorite superhero and comic book character. As I'm sure many of you will do please add to the discussion why you were so disappointed in the comments. You never know, maybe Mr. Garfield or one of the producers will stumble upon this page. Mr. Garfield did ask for this article after all. I will however echo Mr. Garfield's request for only constructive criticism and ask people, in his words, not be dicks just for the sake of being dicks. Again, his words not mine. So let's get started.

I'll start with the things I enjoyed:

Peter and Gwen were perfecly realized. I loved the romance. I loved the dialogue and wit between the two. It didn't hurt that they are the spitting image of their comic book counter-parts either.

Peter and Aunt May felt very real and had a real warmth to their realtionship that was missing from the original three films.

I thought Andrew knocked it out of the park when it came to being Spidey. FINALLY! Some real Spidey quips.

The web swinging in the film was fantastic and by far the best we've ever had.

The costume was spot on perfect. It is the most loyal interpretation from the comics we've had yet (even though my personal favorite was from the previous film.)

I felt the death of Gwen Stacy was handled well. Even though I knew it was coming I still teared up a bit. I still went "ooooh!" when her head snapped back at the last second. It also led to the fantastic grave yard montage with Peter.

Now for the reason we are all here, the negative:

The tone was all over the place. At times (like in the holding cell with Electro and the male German version of Dr. Ashley Kofka) it felt like Batman and Robin. Bright neon lights and cheesy dialogue from wall to wall. And other times kept the real world feel from the first movie. The tone was all over the place and made it hard to get into the film and it's story.

This brings me right into my next complaint, Dr. Ashley Kofka. Ashley Kofka in the comics is a woman who has devoted her life to helping and reforming super criminals. She believes she can help them get to a better life. She is a loving, caring person. The Ashley Kofka we got on film was a man. A german-mad-scientist who loves torturing/experimenting on his patients. He is almost the complete opposite of the character from the comics. The only simularity is that they are both criminal psychologists named Ashley Kofka. That's it. What a waste of a great character.

Did Max Dillion have some kind of metal disability? I'm not trying to be funny. He talked to himself. He even talked to himself as Spider-Man. He seemed to have the emotional maturity of a six year old child. If he was suppose to have a mental disability it would actually make more sense and everything that happend to him in the film would be even more tragic. But the guy was an electrical engineer. So he couldn't be all that dense right? The character was in much need of more development.

No one's favorite villain is Electro. I'm sorry but it has to be said. People LOVE Venom, Carnage, the Green Goblin, Doc Ock, the Lizard, Kraven, and even the Rhino. But I'm telling you, no one runs around saying how much they love Electro and that he is their favorite, who for whatever reason was used as the main villain. And I can't imagine the way he was used in this movie will help him become a favorite.

There was too much cheese in this film. The first "The Amazing Spider-Man" had a great realistic feel. If Spider-Man were real, the movie captured what it would really feel like to turn on the news and see a human spider running around New York fighting crime. The second film seemed to say "screw that!" and felt like it was trying to be The Avengers, Raimi's Spider-Man, and Batman and Robin rolled into one film.
 No one wants to see that.

Bad dialogue. There is cheesy dialogue and then there is just straight up BAD dialogue, this movie had both. Harry saying "random" when Peter came to see him was bad. Harry yelling "you're a fraud Spider-Man!" is bad dialogue. Electro saying "it's my birthday, time for me to light my candles" succeeds at being both cheesy and bad. 

Lack of an after credits scene. Many a theater goer reported the entire theater booing after watching nearly 10 minutes of credits to not get the now Marvel staple of an after credits scene. BOO!

This next complaint is in my own words but is credited to the user gogeta5:
The trailers continued to show us over and over the fight scene between the Rhino and Spidey. It really was the thing I was looking forward to the most. You really ask yourself "man I wonder what happens after Spidey smacks the Rhino with that man-hole-cover?" You pay to go see the movie. I can even remember sitting there getting really excited to see this fight happen, and what do you discover? You've already seen the entire fight! They showed us the very last scene and very last shot of the film in the trailers! What kind of marketing department do you guys have Sony? It's like you couldn't have tried harder to piss off your audience.

Now for the complaint that bothered me the most. The fight scenes. They sucked. Sorry, I can be more constructive than that. Go back and watch the fight scenes from Spider-Man 2 and even the first The Amazing Spider-Man film and you'll notice something: the fight scenes are a constant fight that isn't interupted by bad editing. In the middle of Doc Ock and Spidey fighting on the clock tower or train, we don't cut away from the action to watch people on an air plane or an air traffic control agent start a stop watch. It kills the momentum of the action. Every action scene is interupted to take us some where we don't want to be. The fight with the Lizard on top of Oscorp tower was a nonstop fight between two characters. It flowed and made us feel we were right in the middle of it. Take the end Goblin/Spidey fight for example. We know Spidey and Goblin are doing some really cool stuff fighting just off screen as we continue to cut to Gwen jumping from cog to cog. LET US WATCH THEM FIGHT! It was driving me mad. Stop cutting to that damn plane and people reading magazines! Did they really think I paid good money to see an air traffic control team cheering in 3D? Not only did the fight scenes in The Amazing Spider-Man 2 have us jump from place to place in the middle of the fights, most of the time they weren't even fight scenes, they were chase scenes pretending to be fight scenes. He chased the Rhino in the opening. He chased Electro around New York and between the 
pylons at the end. He chased Harry around the pylons when he grabbed Gwen only to have a very short lived fight inside the clock tower. The fight scenes should be a major high light in a film about Spider-Man. Spider-Man 2.1 proved that. This film failed horribly on that front. The extremly disappointing fight between Spidey and Electro in time square also helps prove that point. My wife contends that it wasn't even really a fight scene. They barely fought one another before Spidey hosed Max down. 

There are a few other complaints but I feel this article is already pretty long winded. I figure you guys can take it from here. But like I said or like Mr. Andrew Garfield has said, please, don't be dicks. You never know who is reading this. And you never know, what we say may well help the next Spidey flick be, well, amazing.


Ok fine, one last thing. What kind of parent brings their kid to a bank robbery and shoot out between police and a true blue super criminal with two giant machine guns? Even if you don't have a kid I can't imagine people just chilling behind a police line to watch bullets fly when there is a real possibility you may get hit. Just sayin...
 

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Dingbat
Dingbat - 9/13/2014, 4:51 PM
The action looked good. Dialogue could have been better. I honestly think there's a good movie inside TASM2, it just needs to be edited out. Some scenes need to be added too, as the film felt a little disjointed.
pesmerga44
pesmerga44 - 9/13/2014, 4:58 PM
My biggest complaint about the film was they needed to cut out 2 of the 4 main plots running throughout the film. Like this film deals with Electro and Peter and Gwen's relationship issues. The third movie then deals with Harry as the Green Goblin and his missing parents. Top off 4 main plots running through out the film the transitioning between the plots was terrible. The movie seemed to run a plot and just stop that plot all together and deal with the next plot and then stop that plot all together and move on to the next plot doing this over and over again with all 4 plots it was terrible.
SauronsBANE
SauronsBANE - 9/13/2014, 5:18 PM
I'll try to tackle this in the same order that you brought them up:

"Peter and Aunt May felt very real and had a real warmth to their realtionship that was missing from the original three films."

I honestly can't get over this statement. I'm no blind defender of Raimi's films or anything, but Peter and Aunt May's relationship in those movies were pretty much the emotional core (along with the impact of Uncle Ben's death) throughout the entire trilogy. It felt real, it felt loving, there were devastating low points and joyful high points, it had a sense of history, and Aunt May's monologue to Peter in Spider-Man 2 (I think?) was absolutely incredible. Personally, I don't get ANY of that from Peter and Aunt May in the TASM movies. In fact, Peter is pretty much an absolute dick to her all the time. None more so than when he basically forces her to tell him about his parents, as if he had any right to do so.

I loved the web-slinging, the suit was perfect, and Spider-Man got some really great, sarcastic, hilarious quips in...but for me, those things are HEAVILY outweighed by how terrible everything else was. Like, those minor details don't even register with me as any kind of redeeming factor at all. Maybe that's just me though haha.
SauronsBANE
SauronsBANE - 9/13/2014, 5:18 PM
About Ashley Kafka...to me, the biggest sin was needlessly gender-swapping that role. Like, what could've possibly even been the point to that? What was gained by that? But as you said, it didn't help that he was basically a walking caricature who barely even resembled the comic book counterpart.

I 100% agree that the tone was a complete cluster[frick], and I can't figure out if it's because the movie was edited to hell in post-production, or because Marc Webb couldn't figure out what he wanted. Or maybe a combination of both. I have more than my fair share of problems with the first TASM film...but at least it managed to pick a tone and stick with it.

And I couldn't agree more about the fight scenes. The sole reason Electro even existed in this movie was to give the film the requisite number of action set pieces. That's literally it. What a waste. But in particular, the fight scene that you specifically mention where they keep cutting away to the Air Traffic Controllers and the runaway planes.

I don't object to the simple fact that they cut away from the fight to focus on that subplot...it's the fact that NO MAJOR CHARACTER even knew that any of it was happening. Like, what's the point in showing us that two unknown, anonymous planes with 2 groups of unknown, anonymous people might crash into each other?? We don't care about those people, the main character has nothing invested in those people, the bad guy had no idea that was going on...so what exactly is the point in wasting screen-time with that? Imagine how much more suspenseful it would've been if Spidey had, I don't know, his SPIDER-SENSE go off and alert him to that? So while he's trying to protect Gwen and defeat Goblin, he had yet ANOTHER thing to worry about? Instead, we keep pointlessly cutting away to a disaster that no one even knows it happening. They might as well have shown us random forest fires raging in California, or suicide bombers killing civilians in Iraq. Or any other random disaster that just so happened to be occurring at that time. Jesus, the writing in this movie was despicable.
pesmerga44
pesmerga44 - 9/13/2014, 7:32 PM
@VIRILEMAN @SauronsBANE

Ya during the plane scenes I was laughing in my seat in the theater at how utterly pointless and non thrilling those scenes were. I was just thinking to myself "who the [frick] are these people and why the hell am I suppose to care about them". Maybe they were going for something of a copy of the train scene from Spider-Man 2 but even if they were it utterly fails at that. In Spider-Man 2 he is fighting Doc Ock on the train and Doc Ock himself causes the train to almost crash to stop Spidey so he goes to save them. Not one of the characters had any connection to anyone on those planes or even knew what the [frick] was going on. The scene in the hospital with Aunt May yelling out orders to people was more thrilling then that scene because at least we know Aunt May. Even though I also found that scene hilarious with some trainee nurse taking night classes is yelling out orders during an emergency that was just funny.
SauronsBANE
SauronsBANE - 9/13/2014, 7:41 PM
@pesmerga44 Exactly! The whole thing is just such a "WTF??" moment haha. It's even worse because I just so happen to be in college, studying to become an Air Traffic Controller...and I can confidently tell you that this entire sequence is just such BS lol.

I mean, I get it's a comic book movie and my suspension of disbelief already covers a kid with spider-powers, a guy falling into a vat of electric eels and becoming Electro, etc etc. But they could've at least done their research into how MINUSCULE the odds are for two planes to suddenly be put on a direct, head-to-head collision course at the exact same altitude during a power outage.

But yeah, even if it was completely realistic, it'd still be a dumb scene simply because we don't care about those planes and the main characters aren't even aware of what's going on. If they made Aunt May into a passenger on one of the planes (even though that'd be a ridiculous coincidence) or heck, maybe she's even one of the Air Traffic Controllers in that room (which would probably be just as ridiculous), then it'd be slightly better. But ugh...what a mind-numbingly dumb scene. You're right, it's NOTHING like the train scene in Spider-Man 2.
pesmerga44
pesmerga44 - 9/13/2014, 7:55 PM
@SauronsBANE

Since you are going to school to become an air traffic controller I have to ask there has to be fail safes encase of a power outage or the control tower goes down for some reason right. Like all planes coming in and out are given notice the tower is down or the closest control tower becomes notified to contact all planes coming in and out.
SauronsBANE
SauronsBANE - 9/13/2014, 8:16 PM
@pesmerga44, To some extent. There's protocol on top of protocol that, in the event of a worst case scenario, there's procedures for aircraft to be notified and then re-routed or to land as soon as possible at the nearest airport without getting into any accidents.

I'm still not entirely sure what happened in TASM 2 haha. I think it was an EMP detonation, in which case ALL power should've been knocked out. Meaning ALL aircraft should've been falling out of the skies because their engines stopped working. Or if it was just a power outage, then there should've been backup generators for the control tower and there shouldn't have been any incidents whatsoever. Either way, what happened in the movie makes no sense at all haha.
JasonBlue
JasonBlue - 9/13/2014, 10:24 PM
I think, tbh, if they had not cast Jamie Foxx, the movie would have been a lot better. He ruined the film's tone consistency, and his acting was simply distracting from the plot.
Mercwitham0uth
Mercwitham0uth - 9/13/2014, 10:51 PM
Bleh awful film.
gaikinger
gaikinger - 9/13/2014, 10:53 PM
Well worded letter exploring the good and bad of this entertaining yet flaws confection.
konoyaro
konoyaro - 9/13/2014, 11:08 PM
IMHO most of what is wrong with ASM series comes to direction,script and production BUT some of what ended to be PPs finished version in this movie HAS to have the input of the actor portraying the character so YES Garfield is guilty to.
the only aspect they got right with this reboot to me was the fact that we SEE PP messing with science on both movies.
almost all the time he acts like a dick to his aunt,hes not awkward or shy around everybody else hes just an outsider,even so he get the hot girl with minimum effort and have no problems with the burden of being spider man.
the parents plot and the oscorp plot were a huge mess on both movies.
IMO Raimi version still the best one.
Nickk
Nickk - 9/13/2014, 11:10 PM
i thought they should have saved the gwen death in the third instead
McGee
McGee - 9/13/2014, 11:13 PM
@Marc Webb

@Andrew Garfield


WarnerBrother
WarnerBrother - 9/13/2014, 11:34 PM
Good points especially the the Rhino/spider-kid scene at the end of the film.

I have been a cop for 15 years and the Police would not simply allow a crowd to assemble behind a barricade only a
few feet behind Officers involved in a running gun battle with a mobile suspect in what appears to be an armored vehicle with heavy firepower.

I get it,its a CBM with superheroes, but the scene didn't ring true,the cops and the crowd seemed clueless and the whole thing came off as just a set up for the spider kid to have his cheesy moment.

In one sense, the film was leading us to see the Rhino was moving around at will, pushing the Police aside,while the next,you have a Police barricade set up with a crowd of on lookers just hanging out behind it,as if the situation was contained.

If the Rhino was on the move,the cops would have been pushing the crowd back because they were right behind the police line and the Rhino was advancing towards them. Even if you assume the crowd was beyond the range of the Rhino's machine guns and missiles where he was at that point, they surely would have been in range when he reached the police line.

Sharpshooters would have been deployed on surrounding rooftops and in Police helicopters with 50 cal sniper rifles to
take head shots if the Rhino was foolish enough to lower his shields (which he did) and nobody would have faulted the police for taking a head shot to stop a guy threatening a child after shooting up half the city.

A less cheesy scene could have had the Rhino still in a running gun battle with the cops,but this time have the cops evacuating the spider kids apartment building or just clearing citizens from the streets when the kid being towed by the arm, breaks away from his mother and runs back through the crowd to block the Rhinos path.

The kid shows a look of real fear on his face before its replaced by determination to do the right thing, which in his mind means putting on his spidey mask and protecting his mother and the crowd by standing his ground.

Mom and the cops can't reach her son due to the push of the crowd and the kid seems much more heroic then reckless and the mom seems more desperate and unlucky then negligent and clueless.

Don't have the Rhino mock the kid,just have him firing at the cops with the boy in the crossfire and the police holding back,with the Rhino only becoming aware of the boy at the last second when he halts his advance.

Have the Rhino look at the boy with confusion for a second before he grimly starts to advance with a look of distain on his face,to ether shoot or stomp the boy if he doesn't run away,when the real Spider-Man appears causing the Rhino to stop again.

Then you have Rhino open up and taunt Spider-Man about running away on the city and maybe he should let the kid fight his battles.

Spidee-Man can then have his talk with the boy who never gave up on him before turning to fighting the Rhino.

The scene as it was,seemed to be tacked on to the end of the movie and Spider-Man's return was not as cathartic as it otherwise could have been.


The revamped scene would have(in my opinion) done a much better job of showing the need to face fear and accept responsibility then the movie version, with the little kids actions and emotions much more being a reflection of Peter's overcoming his own doubts and fears before doing the right thing in returning as Spider-Man.


Just my two cents.
SuperPickle
SuperPickle - 9/13/2014, 11:36 PM
I agree that the tone was all over the place. We went from cheesy Disney XD, preteen cartoon to serious comic book fantasy. Garfield and Stone were incredible yet a normally incredible Jamie Foxx just fizzled down into goose diarrhea and oozed off the screen. I felt at times like I was watching a middle school drama club's first foray into film. I went from saying "Holy shit! This is AWESOME!!' to saying "WTF? That's so dumb..." at least 30 times in that movie.
gogeta5
gogeta5 - 9/13/2014, 11:44 PM
Well I think the biggest complaint not mentioned here is the Rhino issue.We can get past the whole suit thing lloking like Bay's transformer cospleyer,all the trailers got us hyped to at least see a fight between those 2,the movie got to the end,we see them about to clash & boom,roll credits,so essentially if you add the 2 trailers & 2-3 teasers showing the Rhino suit,we literally saw the entire fight in the trailers-teasers & the 1 fight that wouldn't be a huge chase scene was nothing but a 60;s Batman & Robin cliffhanger...
AwesomePromoz
AwesomePromoz - 9/13/2014, 11:50 PM
Any attempt to defend Marc Webb as a filmmaker is an auto fail. Have complaints about the tonal inconsistencies? I already saw this in (500) Days of Summer way before they gave him these movies to "direct"
NeoBaggins
NeoBaggins - 9/14/2014, 12:00 AM
@Dingbat

"I honestly think there's a good movie inside TASM2"

wow I believe I said the same thing in my review.

I think Webb was trying to mimic a certain tone from the Raimi films, especially when it came to the Love Story. I also wonder if he was asked/forced to make certain aspects Raimi-like. There was a retread feel to some of the film, but in a way that it was like a bad imitation.

Spider-man is one of my dearest Superheroes and Webb's series is putting a coffin out for Spidey at the cinema.
loki668
loki668 - 9/14/2014, 12:01 AM
I disagree about no one liking Electro. I've always loved the character but, in my opinion, there should have been someone else (ANYONE ELSE) besides Fox. Jamie Fox went "Full Schumacher" on the role and we ALL know



I enjoyed the good parts of the film but I'm glad that they're holding off on the next one. One request though, HOW'S ABOUT THE SCORPION? MYSTERIO? VULTURE? ANYONE who wasn't in the first three films!!! This series desperately needs a new central villain.
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