Arrowverse Creator Marc Guggenheim On ARROW's Importance To The CW And SMALLVILLE's Limited CRISIS Role

Arrowverse Creator Marc Guggenheim On ARROW's Importance To The CW And SMALLVILLE's Limited CRISIS Role

Arrowverse executive producer Marc Guggenheim has revealed the importance of Arrow to The CW when it launched and explains why Smallville's contributions to Crisis on Infinite Earths were so limited...

By JoshWilding - Jul 05, 2024 04:07 PM EST
Filed Under: Arrow

The Arrowverse ended when The Flash concluded last year, though shows like Legends of Tomorrow and Batwoman were cancelled without ever receiving proper endings. 

On the plus side, Arrow had a fitting series finale (as did Supergirl) while Superman & Lois' characters were moved to another universe. 

It all started with Green Arrow, though, and in an interview with Showrunner Whisperer, executive producer Marc Guggenheim revealed exactly how important the Emerald Archer's TV series was to The CW. 

"Shortly after the pilot got ordered to series, Peter Roth [president of Warner Bros. TV] took us out to lunch and basically laid out for us, in incredible detail, the reality that if Arrow wasn’t a hit, there would be no more CW," he explained. "So it was the pressure of having a show and keeping the show on the air – that’s one thing – but now we also have the pressure of keeping the whole network on the air. That’s another thing."

The CW relied heavily on its DC TV offerings for a long time. However, as ratings declined - as did profits - the network pivoted and, under new leadership, has moved away from scripted dramas. The Arrowverse's early importance to The CW can't be understated, though. 

In the same conversation, Guggenheim reflected on including Smallville in Crisis on Infinite Earths and why we didn't revisit Clark Kent (Tom Welling) and Lois Lane (Erica Durance) in the final chapter. Unsurprisingly, it came down to money. 

"Why didn’t we have Smallville? I’ll be honest with you. I think it was two reasons - Number 1: it never occurred to me until I got the question on Twitter that people think we did blow up the Smallville universe. So part of it was that, and part of it was, we had obviously seen Clark and Lois in episode 2 [of Crisis on Infinite Earths.] For the most part, the ‘going around the horn’ [closing sequence montage at the end of episode 5] was to see all the universes and all the characters that we didn’t get to see."

"If I could have done it all over again, it would be awesome to just have a shot of Lois and Clark on the farm, kissing, for the go-around-the-horn-sequence. But yeah, sorry, I dropped the ball on that! We only had Tom for a few hours, but also, here's the thing: under SAG rules, an actor don't get paid by the amount of time they spend on set. They get paid by the number of episodes they are in. So if Tom was contracted for episode 2, and if Tom appeared in episode 5, that would trigger a completely different payment. We certainly didn’t have the money for that, but that really wasn’t a factor. It, quite frankly, just didn’t occur to me."

A tight budget was always an issue for the Arrowverse and it's a shame that closed the door on Welling playing a bigger role as Superman in Crisis. However, just the fact he and Durance showed up meant a lot to Smallville fans (funnily enough, Lex Luthor actor Michael Rosenbaum has previously confirmed he declined to appear because he was offered such a small amount of money). 

You can check out the full interview with Guggenheim in the player below.

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DocSpock
DocSpock - 7/5/2024, 4:34 PM


How irrelevant is this yesterday's news?

krayzeman
krayzeman - 7/5/2024, 4:36 PM
As corny as it got sometimes The Arrowverse was the closest thing to a cohesive comicbook universe on TV that rivaled what Marvel was doing on the big screen. I loved the character crossovers and storylines between shows and references even outside of the big events. The Arrowverse still holds a special place for me!
dracula
dracula - 7/5/2024, 4:39 PM
@krayzeman - excuse me?

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krayzeman
krayzeman - 7/5/2024, 5:11 PM
@dracula - live action i mean!!! lololol
Nightwing1015
Nightwing1015 - 7/5/2024, 4:37 PM
What's weird is that a lot of Smallville fans don't like the scene and try and de-canonize it (like the folks on the wikia) by saying its an alternate timeline.

I'm not the biggest fan of what they did with Clark but it's so clearly the true ending for this version of the character, moreso than any of the Season 11 comics.
dracula
dracula - 7/5/2024, 4:37 PM
Makes sense
TheVisionary25
TheVisionary25 - 7/5/2024, 4:41 PM
Damn, that’s hell of a lot of pressure man.

Say what you want about Arrow or the universe it created but it was able to create a successful & cohesive universe on the small screen that a lot of people for many years enjoyed , you can’t take that away from it..

It had its issues but it still holds a special place in my heart as does that entire universe.

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Also kudos to him on admitting a mistake about it just not occurring to show that the Smallville universe was still there for its fans…

It’s hard enough to manage a big crossover like that on a limited budget anyway but to do that aswell as help oversee the amount of shows at the time , there’s bound to be things you just plain overlook.
dracula
dracula - 7/5/2024, 4:41 PM
Wonder how much actors were paid for archive footage
AlexGSpeaks
AlexGSpeaks - 7/5/2024, 4:47 PM
The end of Arrow certainly signaled the end of the CW, coincidence or not. As soon a it ended, all the Arrowverse shows died out almost immediately after. Flash hung on for a bit (a bit too long most would argue), and Superman & Lois sorta cut ties (save a visit from Diggle) which didn't save them anyway.
TheVisionary25
TheVisionary25 - 7/5/2024, 4:51 PM
@AlexGSpeaks - just unfortunate how Superman and Lois because a casualty of that since it’s the strongest live action adaptation of Superman in awhile

Hope 4 wraps it up well but there’s always gonna be this bitter feeling for me if it being prematurely cancelled.
Origame
Origame - 7/5/2024, 4:49 PM
Arrow was pretty sweet in the beginning. How many shows like this have the balls to just have the villains grand plan of mass destruction and death succeed in the first season finale? And then season 2 doesn't shy away from the destruction either.
TheVisionary25
TheVisionary25 - 7/5/2024, 5:37 PM
Arrow also had 2 of my favorite comic book villain adaptations…

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The latter was moreso reimagined for the show but still.
HistoryofMatt
HistoryofMatt - 7/5/2024, 6:52 PM
The first season of Arrow is one of the best seasons of any genre show I've ever seen. I rewatched it on Netflix a few weeks back and man, they knew exactly what they wanted to do and who they wanted to be. The storyline and character arcs were TIGHT. Everything fit together perfectly. It seemed like they were burning through plot too quickly, but you saw what they were trying to do by the midseason finale when we find out the identity of the Dark Archer.

Season two was good, but not as good. Season three was good, but not as good as season one and two. Season four was bad. Season five was a good comeback. Seasons six, seven, and eight were forgettable, especially season eight which only existed to launch crisis and the terrible Canaries spinoff that never was. Arrow deserved a better ending than they got, but you can watch Arrow S1, S2, and S3, along with Flash S1 and S2 and feel pretty good about what you're watching. Legends Season 2 was also pretty great.

I don't consider Superman & Lois to be part of the Arrowverse. The quality of that show is up there with the best recent genre shows like Mando S1 and S2, and Andor S1. Shooting on the locations they chose for Smallville somehow make it a far more cinematic show. Whomever the DP is for S&L (I'm too lazy to look it up) is a master of their craft, because the show always looks like a million bucks even though I know they shoot it as cheap as possible.
Batmangina
Batmangina - 7/5/2024, 7:47 PM
Arrow was shockingly good in the beginning with Oliver killing MFers left and right - I didn't [frick] with it until it had at least three seasons and I was like what the actual [frick]? Did he just kill a guy?

Far better than it should have been - then it went the way of all CW shit and they Dawson's Creeked the [frick] out of it.
bobevanz
bobevanz - 7/6/2024, 10:55 AM
Arrow seasons 1-4 were decent, same with Flash. Once these shows reached a certain point it was all about churning them out until people stop watching. Good riddance
dragon316
dragon316 - 7/6/2024, 10:16 PM
Glad I’m not hollywood pay by episode not how long your on set

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