THE ACOLYTE Review Bombing - A Counter Argument From A Traditionalist

THE ACOLYTE Review Bombing - A Counter Argument From A Traditionalist

Are toxic fans really review bombing The Acolyte over a diverse cast? Are there other factors at play that are being ignored, or maybe the narrative is easier to explain than the show's failure...

Editorial Opinion
By CreateNowSlpL8r - Jun 17, 2024 12:06 PM EST
Filed Under: Acolyte

**MAJOR SPOILERS BELOW**

For quite some time, there has been a trend in modern media when it comes to how the audience receives new content, how the media reviews this content, how the audience receives it, and how the media/studio reacts to it. This is especially present in content which is considered progressive or woke, meaning it features female, diverse or LGBT characters in prominent roles.

The pattern goes like this:

  1. Early reviews by the access media score high.
  2. The content is released to mixed or negative reactions by fans.
  3. A narrative circulates through the media outlets, sometimes even the studio, that the fans, specifically a certain segment of the fans, are perpetuating a toxic narrative that negatively affects either review scores or the success of the project.

And this brings us to Episode 3 of The Acolyte and the accusation that “certain fans” are review bombing this series into oblivion …because it has girls in it?

Here is a recent quote from an article on comicbookmovie.com on the subject:

“There’s been a fair bit of review-bombing on the review aggregator, Google, and IMDb, and the prevailing opinion is that it’s in response to The Acolyte’s diverse, primarily female-led cast.”

Huh. I’ve got a few questions as I muster up a counter-opinion.

  1. The prevailing opinion? By who? Where is the evidence to support this claim?
  2. If true, how do you know the review bombing is specifically because the cast is diverse or female-led?
  3. Have you reviewed the counterargument to your claim and addressed it in your own assessment?

If these questions were answered, it would allow the journalist to get their message across and still seem impartial, which is what a good journalist does.

  1. What actual proof do these journalists provide that it’s negative review bombing?
  2. The critics' score is down from 93% to 84% That’s a pretty big swing, don’t you think? Isn’t this a worthy mention? Isn’t it also reasonable to assume the original critic reviews by the access media might have been favorable, while other critics are just seeing this for the first time and aren’t as partial to Disney?
  3. Why don’t they discuss the divisive parts of the story, the bad writing and acting? How about the controversial way the writer paints the Jedi? Instead, they lean on diversity being the issue which “certain fans” seem to take offense with.

Spoiler Alert: These elements are the least offensive thing about this series.

To conclude their argument, they often cite their own reviews. Why don’t they cite other sources that agree with their assessment based on the positive aspects of the actual production that doesn’t have anything to do with blind defense of the studio?

For example, known progressive outlets like IGN and AngryJoe have negatively reviewed the show. AngryJoe gave this episode a 1. They spent over an hour dissecting it and explaining their position, even making it specifically clear they disagree with anyone rating the story strictly on its diverse elements.

The review bomb position claims the series is good …without explaining why.

Even Forbes came out and wrote an article destroying this series. They are hardly conservative but went into very specific detail on why they thought it was terrible.

This opens up additional questions:

  1. Why does this view of “certain fans” conflict with recent diverse projects that were reviewed and supported just fine? Examples like: Fallout, One Piece, Blue Eye Samurai, Furiosa, even House of the Dragon. Its hard to take this argument seriously when this data is ignored. In fact, ask yourself this. If The Acolyte is so good, how are these mostly new IPs beating Star Wars?
  2. If it’s really about “certain fans,” where are these other fans the studio is marketing towards? Instead of taking the low-hanging fruit, (Blaming the fans they say they don’t want or are problematic) it would be at least interesting to explore why the LGBTQ+ and female fans don’t seem to defending or supporting Star Wars either.
  3. I can admit there are many YouTube channels hating on the show. But at least they dissect it. They explain their position. Isn’t it strange the studio is trying to pivot away from the fans that made it the multi-billion franchise it is? It would be interesting to know these journalists’ viewpoint on why this is? Doesn’t seem like a smart strategy. I think I can admit any fandom can be traditionalists. Why wouldn’t they be? The fans waited years to see Luke rebuild the order, but the studio robbed them of this. After the pushback, the studio continued down a direction the fans have repeatedly pushed back against. Each Star Wars series has reviewed worse and worse and according to these type of journalists, this all started with the inclusion of diversity.

Did it?

Nope, if they did any research, this started with Solo, which was a white, male-led project. Do you know what project has better critic and audience scores and came out before Solo? Rogue One. This was both female led and diverse. Most fans think Rogue One is a great Star Wars movie (I rate it above TPM and AOTC). The point is that the data doesn’t add up.

Acknowledging these data points would at least spark different, productive conversations on the topic. Articles wouldn’t devolve into the same back-and-forth argument and the studio might actually discover what is wrong with its product.

So what is actually wrong with the product?

This would require an exploration of different aspects of the plot. Three Act Structure, Story Circle, Heroes Journey, etc. Tropes exist for a reason; the bottom line is …this show is not competently written. My issue with articles blaming the fanbase is not their opinion. It’s the fact that they make no effort to defend it. It’s easier to continue blaming faceless fans or using the opinions of others they name as some source of truth. As a journalist, you need to challenge your own opinion or speak to people who disagree with you. If you just speak in similar circles, if you don’t educate yourself on how a proper story should be written …how exactly are you growing? Why would you expect people to trust your opinion?

The problem with this show is the writing has a specific intent but isn’t intelligent enough to convey the message it wants to. They want you to sympathize with the Witches but invoke the opposite response. The protagonist/antagonist is unlikeable, and since the writers don’t understand the plot structure, the show can’t get you to relate to them. Instead, it changes things about the lore so the plot can happen. Worse, it doesn’t seem to know it’s doing it.

For example, The Witches in episode 3 are supposed to be the good guys. You can tell because they have all the character traits of the character(s) you sympathize with. They speak softly, often conveying their point of view to garner empathy. This is how you portray the good guys.

Conversely, Sol is hiding while the noble Witches run and hide to protect their children from the evil Jedi. This is why you get the Force, er the Thread, from their perspective, and the Jedi bust in to spoil the ascension. The Jedi are the antagonists. The only problem is the Witches are doing exactly what the High Republic doesn’t want them to be doing. The Jedi are the peacekeepers. We know this because of what we know of the Jedi. We are not aware of a counter view because the show is too lazy to do any world building. It doesn’t grasp that world building and setting are two different things.

A good start might have been:

  1. What exactly are the rules of this world set 100 years before the world we know?
  2. How are the Jedi different?
  3. How are we introduced to the world through the protagonist’s journey?

Nah, let’s just skip that. It’s only an era we haven’t visited. None of that is important…

Instead, the Witches, through their words and actions, are the actual villains.

  1. They are deceitful.
  2. They lie.
  3. They are entitled.
  4. They use the Force in a way that is unlawful, then claim oppression. How were they oppressed exactly?
  5. Instead of not breaking the law, they self-exile. They admit “some think what we do is dark and unnatural.” Uh, yeah, that kind of sounds like the dark side. Especially considering those are Palpatine quotes. I would think the Jedi would have a problem with you conjuring up force babies off the grid. Kind of sounds …problematic.
  6. They even encourage the children to lie. This is supposed to convey what? Female empowerment? Osha tells them about 100 times she wants to leave, but she’s only allowed to be empowered if she joins their cult. So she’s empowered, as long as she agrees with them and does something she doesn’t want to do.
  7. They establish themselves as aggressors by attacking Torbin. (The Jedi ask permission to test the children anyway)
  8. They know their actions are unlawful but justify those actions because they believe their worldview is right.

Exactly as villains do… Actually, who uses runs and hides from Jedi? Villains, right?

Why shouldn’t we trust the view of the Jedi? They have kept the Sith in check for a Millenia …or did we just retcon that?

Maybe they should have fleshed out both sides and why Osha feels the way she does. By convincing Osha, they convince the audience. That is how storytelling is done correctly. Our protagonist needs to go through changes to grow in a way needed to achieve her goal. The show fails at this. So much so that I wonder if Mae isn’t the actual protagonist. You know, the sister who wants Osha to stay so badly she locks her in a room …and tries to kill her.

Instead, the writers break another known rule about flashbacks. You don’t take the audience out of the current day for 30 minutes of flashbacks. Especially showing the audience what we already know (Mae is alive). She isn’t a very good assassin either since she breaks into the front door to kill Torbin. Meanwhile, the guy has an open skylight she could have just gone through. Again, the plot needs to happen; just stick a skylight there, which, of course, she uses again when the plot needs her to.

The Jedi aren’t written very smart either. Unknown force user running around killing Jedi. Where is the sense of urgency? Everything is unguarded, and they seem more interested in burying it from their enemies. (world building again, what enemies?) Where is the Jedi Council? Maybe they should have more than a Padawan guarding the known location of Mae, who, of course, escapes.

The show is telegraphing some reveals besides whoever this Sith Master is. These Jedi seem to feel guilt, and Torbin self-deletes after meditating for 10 years. This will probably explain why the Witches are all dead in the same exact place. They don’t seem burned or crushed. Maybe that's because a candle can’t burn a stone castle to the ground. Then again, in this story, you can survive a crash to the surface of a planet …FROM SPACE.

The writing is amateurish. The plot is non-existent. We don’t know what Osha wants, why she flunked out of the Jedi Order, or what her goals are. These are things the story needs to establish before the inciting incident. The showrunner takes the short path to show us this early, which can work, but you now have to shift from the mystery plot in which the audience is invested to a character they don’t know. Worse, we get the answer to the mystery right away. An alternative way would have been to intertwine the flashbacks over the course of the episodes and leave it a mystery if Mae survived. Let the audience take the clues from the flashbacks and make their own guesses. This, along with sprinkling in back story, would have given you multiple points of intrigue leading to the finale.

  1. Is Osha the killer?
  2. Is it possible that Mae survived?
  3. Which twin is the killer?
  4. Who is the Sith Master?
  5. Who are the Witches?
  6. What is their connection to the Jedi?
  7. What are the Jedi Council’s thoughts on such a critical issue?

Instead, we know most of these answers, or they are ignored. The Jedi are presented as incompetent. They can’t even put together the basics of a good investigation because the plot doesn’t allow them to. The audience wants to root for their heroes. They want to be invested in a good, cohesive narrative, and the showrunners haven't given it to them.

All of this is why it’s getting negative reviews.

That is the answer you are looking for…

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CreateNowSlpL8r
CreateNowSlpL8r - 6/16/2024, 11:35 AM
@NateBest - I believe you asked to be tagged to review. Something about moving to the front page?
NateBest
NateBest - 6/17/2024, 12:17 PM
@CreateNowSlpL8r - I took the day off for Father's Day yesterday, but I'm taking a look at it now!!!
WarMonkey
WarMonkey - 6/17/2024, 4:49 PM
@CreateNowSlpL8r - I saved this article earlier today till now in the afternoon when I finally had time to read it. It had 17 comments and now after a refresh of the page it has 123 comments. Well done! Great article and very informative
DocSpock
DocSpock - 6/16/2024, 12:30 PM

Fantastic job man. I hope they don't kill it.

BobbyDrake
BobbyDrake - 6/16/2024, 12:38 PM
User Comment Image
Ryguy88
Ryguy88 - 6/16/2024, 1:27 PM
You put more thought into this than Hedland did her own show.
marvel72
marvel72 - 6/16/2024, 2:51 PM
Great well done my good man.
CreateNowSlpL8r
CreateNowSlpL8r - 6/16/2024, 7:50 PM
@DocSpock - @Marvel72 - @DarthOmega - @BobbyDrake - @Ryguy88 - Thanks for the feedback, hopefully this makes the front page so someone can read it. I am interested in writing more but if its not going to be seen, kind of takes the piss out of it.


@GeneralZod - @DarthOmega - @Origame - I wouldn't be too upset at our dearly departed AvalonX. You see, what is dead can never die 🤜🤛
Ryguy88
Ryguy88 - 6/16/2024, 8:02 PM
@CreateNowSlpL8r - I get it not being worth it if it doesnt get the main page bump. I think if you want it you may have lace it with some clickbait.
CreateNowSlpL8r
CreateNowSlpL8r - 6/16/2024, 8:15 PM
@Ryguy88 - I sort of took it as a kind of wink wink from Nate. Clickbait of this material can backfire which is what I think he doesn't want. If the site is going to be more than posts from X, chances need to be taken. Not a word of this (other than the quote) is from another source. Its 100% original.
Origame
Origame - 6/16/2024, 8:15 PM
@CreateNowSlpL8r - ?si=yDRIIysp7G_w_R4l

Also, fyi, nate is probably gonna tell you not to have the article you're talking about there. You know, not making this like an argument between two users. But otherwise I really like it. Glad you're writing.
BobbyDrake
BobbyDrake - 6/16/2024, 8:15 PM
@CreateNowSlpL8r - have you been invited to their discord yet? Nate told me a while back that when he sees someone new starting to write that he immediately invites them to the discord. Not sure if that’s true or not. It’s where they discuss which stories are being written and who gets to write them. Unfortunate that this is buried in the editorial section. I can’t even get to the editorial page on my phone without clicking through the link that you left us and then clicking the editorial button from there. Seems like a hidden page from my pov. I noticed that there were a few people trying to write on there, but guess they gave up when their work didn’t get any exposure. I would recommend keeping future articles concise and to the point and try to find some news that isn’t being covered and claim it on the discord. I enjoyed this read, but I feel like there are a lot of people that just straight up wouldn’t read it because it’s too long. You obviously had a lot to say on the subject though and I applaud you for it.
Ryguy88
Ryguy88 - 6/16/2024, 8:25 PM
@CreateNowSlpL8r - I was more joking, as that seems to be what we see on the main page.
CreateNowSlpL8r
CreateNowSlpL8r - 6/16/2024, 8:29 PM
@Origame - Not have it where? Editorial?
CreateNowSlpL8r
CreateNowSlpL8r - 6/16/2024, 8:33 PM
@BobbyDrake - No, but it is Fathers day. He seemed encouraging but we'll see. This was very specific, I couldn't write this long frequently if I wanted to. Thanks.

I literally just opened up the editor and went to work. I have no idea what kind of length the site likes or doesn't.
BobbyDrake
BobbyDrake - 6/16/2024, 8:52 PM
@CreateNowSlpL8r - Just want to pass along a couple of quotes from Nate from a conversation we had a while back. Hoping it’s helpful.

“YES, I wish more than anyone else that more people would contribute. There is so much content out there, not to mention the interview opportunities that CBM gets on a regular basis, that there's more than enough for other users to cover...”

“Even with all the content that goes up, there's lots that gets missed (Invincible and The Walking Dead come to mind...)... Most seem to stick with what they like and don't like to branch out, which can mean slim pickings...“
Origame
Origame - 6/16/2024, 8:56 PM
@CreateNowSlpL8r - you linked the article you're addressing.
DocSpock
DocSpock - 6/16/2024, 9:26 PM
@CreateNowSlpL8r -

You are british.
Origame
Origame - 6/17/2024, 12:55 PM
@CreateNowSlpL8r - congrats on making it to homepage!
videla
videla - 6/18/2024, 12:53 PM
@CreateNowSlpL8r - This article makes very good points, and I applaud that someone is seeking to establish some common sense, instead of entrenching themselves in the anti-woke perspective that abounds in many videos and forums. Having said that, "review bombing" against women and minorities is very, very real, especially in long-standing franchises. It is biased, it is violent, it is bullying, and it casts a shadow over more sensible and serious criticisms. To find common ground, criticisms must also be more responsible and serious. If I just don't like a TV show, I can't give it a score of 0 and expect it to be taken seriously. A score of 0 implies something lacks the basic competence to be on the screen, the absolute ineptitude of everyone involved in the production, which is not the case. Film and television criticism is not a critique of the direction a story takes but rather of the competence with which that story was told. For example, I don't like the story Clint Eastwood tells in "American Sniper," but I can't responsibly give it a 0 because it is correctly filmed, the performances are solid, and overall, the story, the sequences and the tensions mostly work. I swallow my opinions and recognize when something works, even if I disagree with it. Essays and think pieces are for personal opinions, not film reviews. Film reviews are subjective perspectives that aspire to objectivity. Sure, one can criticize a character surviving a crash from a spaceship, but it is far from being the first and only time that has happened in the history of science fiction. It is a legitimate critique, yes, but when emphasized as if it were a fatal flaw, the critique loses seriousness and distances you from the points you want to make. "Review bombing" is not a form of activism to make a studio change the direction of a franchise. If you don't like it, don't watch it. But if you really expect reviews to be taken seriously, you have to approach them more calmly and objectively; move away from the "anti-woke" arguments, stop feeling betrayed, and get to the points: This doesn't work for these objective reasons. I, for once, despise "Thor Love and Thunder" but it's not because I don´t like the fact that Jane Foster is worthy; I despise it because it is poorly told, constantly undermines the emotions it tries to convey, and the protagonist does not behave in a believable, human, manner. If the criticism is arbitrary, aggressive, and constant, it is easy to ignore. If it is solid and accompanied by simply not watching the film or show and not turning it into an object of controversy, I believe it can be heard.
JoshWilding
JoshWilding - 6/17/2024, 6:53 AM
@CreateNowSlpL8r -

You clearly have plenty of valid reasons for not liking the show which is fair enough. I'm not going to nitpick or find fault with those because you're just as entitled to dislike the way this series portrays certain elements of Star Wars as much as those who may enjoy it for putting a new spin on the Force or Sith lineage, for example.

However, I'd argue that you've confused opinion with fact. "Why don’t they discuss the divisive parts of the story, the bad writing and acting?" In YOUR opinion, it's badly written and acted, but that doesn't make it so. A 9% RT score dip or not (which is completely normal and happens all the time with TV shows being reviewed weekly - it could increase by 9% a week or two from now), objectively speaking, The Acolyte is a well-reviewed, "Certified Fresh" series.

That Audience Score is abnormal because it doesn't correlate with the reviews - yes, there's frequently a divide between fans and critics, but a divide to this extent is only seen with, you guessed it, review bombing.

If you read many of the negative "reviews" or check social media, you'll see that a MASSIVE part of why this series is receiving hate is because "certain fans" are unhappy with it featuring a diverse/female cast and gay characters/actors. The show had a dismal Audience Score 12 hours before the first two episodes premiered...that likely wasn't because those people were unhappy with how the Jedi are portrayed in a show they hadn't seen yet.

In comparing Rogue One and Solo, you're also comparing a good movie with a mediocre one. Furiosa and House of the Dragon, while heavy on female characters, also feature a greater number of male leads and are not as blatantly "diverse" or "woke" as The Acolyte.

I'm part of many different fandoms and get sick and tired of the toxic talk as well, but the impression I get is that you're overlooking and dismissing the possibility of that being the case by sharing your issues with the show and not looking beyond what's on the surface. Going back to the sequels, was Rey a problematic character because she was overpowered or was she simply a "Mary Sue" because there are a lot of people out there who don't want to see a strong female character in place of Luke Skywalker doing his thing? You know, the same people who were offended by Barbie making fun of the patriarchy.

Like it or not, some people, unhappy with seeing a diverse project like this one will either openly hate on it or hide behind arguments like "fire in space" to disguise their hatred for women, people of a different race, and members of the LGBTQ+ community. I'm not suggesting you or anyone else here falls into that category, but closing your eyes to it doesn't seem like the answer.

FYI, I really wouldn't put too much stock in a Forbes article when it's a user-generated site. Here's another from them.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2024/06/16/the-acolytes-15-audience-score-is-embarrassing-for-the-audience-scorers/

Also, proof of review-bombing (on both sides, though the latter appear to be attempting to counter the negative reviews, creating a vicious circle).

https://shiny-firefly-0524.on.fleek.co/analysis.html
CreateNowSlpL8r
CreateNowSlpL8r - 6/17/2024, 11:15 AM
@JoshWilding - "Why don’t they discuss the divisive parts of the story, the bad writing and acting?"

It's an objective opinion though because I am citing ans comparing it to the top 3 frameworks in which stories are written. The plot is not structured well. I explained that with the misuse of flashbacks and the inciting incident. I did explain you can use the inciting incident this way but the writing fails at this.

You're right, the critic score can drop and also increase but it hasn't. We can't say one score dropping is bombing without at least achknowledging the other. I believe I achknowledged YouTubers but lets take Critical Drinker. He kills it but he goes through each plot point and explains why. The pro Acolyte crowd doesn't do that.

They cite how well its written - Ok, tell me how?
They cite how diverse it is. - Who cares if the acting is wooden?

Fair enough on Rouge One and Solo but you can't completely dismiss it. I'm not saying there aren't people turned off by diverse project but you are dismissing Acolyte wasn't diverse organically. Does it really make sense for the showrunner to be having these interviews about basing it on her queerness? Then another giggling about hows its the gayest Star Wars? Her influence isn't her love of Star Wars. Its herself! It's all she talks about.

Last on the other projects. The last four projects I watched had LGBT elements. Fallout, The Boys, Acolyte, X-men 97. I wish this article got pushed because its a good conversation. I am trying to explain to a part of the fandom the difference between a bigot and a traditionalist. I am the later. I want to believe in the story. When everything I watch starts to have the same similar elements, thats where checkboxing comes in. It takes me out of the story. Second, I want to go to a galaxy far, far away. I don't want current day stuff in everything I watch.

Let me give you a different example. Did you see the Extraction movies? Its Chris Helmsworth kicking everyones ass for 2 movies. Sometimes, thats what I want. But imagine if every movie had that. Some guy just kicking everyones ass. Eventually, I'd get sick of it but it doesn't mean I hate men. Every project that came out after I was sick of it would probably review less until I finally just tanked it because I sent the studios a message that I am sick of Chris Helmsworth already.

Thats the point Im trying to make. Of course there are people who are exactly as you're saying. There are also people doing the opposite which you ommit. 5 stars - Great Show. Come on. Even if you're right and your hate diversity 1 star review crowd is more. I am talking about all the people in the middle. They are bored with bad projects. If you want to get them on board with a project, whatever the cast is doesn't need to be in the marketing. LOL, they aren't stupid. They don't need a black or LGBT girl explained to them. Just make a cohesive, competent story and mix it up a little. Once every show has the same elements, its becomes boring.

If MAE is redeemed, how is she different than Reva? Its the same story.

I wish Nate put this on the front page. This is exactly the kind of discussion I wanted to have and its the most you and I have ever actually explained our position. Thats the point. We all probably have more in common than we think but we aren't talking about it.



JoshWilding
JoshWilding - 6/17/2024, 12:01 PM
@CreateNowSlpL8r - First of all, great response and lots of fantastic points. There are elements where I think we'll have to agree to disagree, but I 100% see where you're coming from and certainly wasn't lumping you in with the creeps I mentioned.

I'm also a traditionalist in a lot of ways. I'd argue that Headland's personal perspectives are just as important as her fandom and we have seen many "non-fans" make amazing movies and TV shows over the years. I've read and watched some pretty great interviews where she discusses her legitimate fandom, but those don't get the same attention as the one you refer to, unfortunately.

To clarify, when it comes to Disney's Star Wars, it's been a mixed bag. At the time, I loved TFA and TLJ but, after TROS, neither movie hits the same and I've grown to really resent how Luke was portrayed with the benefit of hindsight and wish we'd gotten better sequels (there are still a lot I like/love about them). Andor and The Mandalorian are top-tier for me, I could take or leave Fett, and really enjoyed Ahsoka outside of it being unsatisfying.

I don't think The Acolyte is a masterpiece. Based on the 4 episodes I've seen, it's a 3.75/5 show which I rounded up to a low 4*. The story has intrigued me, I mostly like the characters, and I'm curious to see where it goes. There is definitely an element of checking boxes in Hollywood these days (and, at times, that's REALLY tedious) but I've enjoyed the work of this cast. Did the show need lesbian witches? Nah. Still, I can see why that would mean more to some people than it does to me. It's like people demanding a gay MCU hero. More representation is important but not when it's shoehorned in as it was in Eternals. I don't see how that benefits anyone. It's patronising.

Anyway, I see now how my original comments about review-bombing may have inadvertently lumped everyone into that same category, and for that, I apologise. As a passionate fan of everything from Marvel to pro wrestling, DC (which, let's face it, we all know I could take or leave), and, hell, even Taylor Swift (I love the music but I'm not one of those intense hardcore fans who decodes all these secret messages much to my wife's relief 😂), I do get why you feel the way you do.

I mean, I HATE Sony for what they've done to those Spider-Man characters. I sat there and interviewed SJ Clarkson and she was a nice person, but man, it's never been more obvious that she was a director-for-hire who cared nothing about those characters than it was then...

I'm sure Nate will see your tags soon enough. He's likely offline!
TwoByFour
TwoByFour - 6/17/2024, 12:38 PM
@JoshWilding - @CreateNowSlpL8r - Great work, gentlemen! This is the level of intelligent dialogue I'm endeavoring to cultivate. Now for the other users here to follow suit!

@NateBest - I would also like to add my input to have @CreateNowSlpL8r articles get published to the front page. Like I said in his original post, I don't agree with everything either -- but some of it I do. And the dialogue this generated is a perfect example of the healthy debating we could use more of here.

Hats off to all of you!
NateBest
NateBest - 6/17/2024, 12:44 PM
@CreateNowSlpL8r - "We all probably have more in common than we think"

You nailed it right there. Excellent point.
Evansly
Evansly - 6/17/2024, 12:57 PM
@TwoByFour @JoshWilding - @CreateNowSlpL8r - This article just popped up for me but this is a wonderful example of voicing and listening to each others points of view.

Hopefully this sets a tend

OmegaDaGr0dd
OmegaDaGr0dd - 6/17/2024, 1:31 PM
@JoshWilding -

"However, I'd argue that you've confused opinion with fact."

The inability to make a distinction between these 2 things is at the heart of so many of the failed arguments we see presented on the internet. There's obviously a ton of psychological and interpersonal confusion and underdevelopment that this is rooted in, but at the end of the day, being unable to find comfort in disliking something without having some objective justification for that dislike causes so many people to contort themselves into the grandiose (yet tunnel visioned) thought processes we see online regularly
OleBobbyTiger
OleBobbyTiger - 6/17/2024, 5:13 PM
@Apophis71 - The episode by episode ratings for episode 3 (from what I've heard - I haven't watched the show myself yet) further support the idea that the negative review bombing has more to do with the presence of "woke" content.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12262202/episodes/?ref_=ttrt_hm_1

If the truth is, as claimed, that the writing is just bad and it has nothing to do with woke content, then the reviews would show a consistent bell curve across all the episodes, but that is clearly not the case.

You can see evidence of this in other shows with good overall ratings, and consistent bell curves from episode to episode with the exception of episodes that were attacked for being "woke" upon release. Take The Last of Us: ep. 3 & 7 for example.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3581920/episodes/?ref_=ttrt_hm_1

NateBest
NateBest - 6/17/2024, 12:38 PM
@CreateNowSlpL8r - Wow, great post! Just an FYI, I modified some formatting (copying and pasting from WYSIWYG editors usually messes things up) and fixed a few typos. I also moved it to the homepage and modified the publish date to just a few minutes ago so that you're not penalized for me not seeing it until this morning.
TwoByFour
TwoByFour - 6/17/2024, 12:40 PM
@NateBest - Ah, looks like we posted our comments at the same time. You're already on top of it!
NateBest
NateBest - 6/17/2024, 12:48 PM
@TwoByFour - I'm a little slow this morning... Too much steak, pie and ice cream last night :P

I'll be out the rest of the day getting some dental work done (another titanium post), but I'm glad I saw this before I go in!
CreateNowSlpL8r
CreateNowSlpL8r - 6/17/2024, 1:57 PM
@NateBest - Thanks man, I wasn't even aware there was a proper editor. It took hours after writing this in another format to get it to work. That was a me problem though.

I do like writing. This was a unique one because of how it started. I don't think its productive to counter another author on the site as a means to create content. Current or even retrospective commentary POV though, there could be a place for that. I know now to pull up the article editor and write. Thanks for the help.


@TwoByFour @JoshWilding
McMurdo
McMurdo - 6/17/2024, 2:21 PM
@NateBest - thanks Nate for letting it go main. It's a discussion worth having.
vectorsigma
vectorsigma - 6/17/2024, 12:56 PM
That fact that it is not far behind from HOTD S2 says much about how questionable the critic score is.
clintthahamster
clintthahamster - 6/17/2024, 5:37 PM
@vectorsigma - Any particular reason that that makes you question the critics' score for The Acolyte, and not the audience score?
BruceWayng
BruceWayng - 6/17/2024, 12:58 PM
All the Disney sycophants desperately scrolling through this article to try and find ANYTHING they can report

User Comment Image
DarthOmega
DarthOmega - 6/17/2024, 12:59 PM
Now THIS is what I like to see. So often we get one version of things. That version always begins and ends with "Toxic fans" It's B.S. Star Wars has toxic fans. I'm sure even freaking teletubbies have toxic fans, but that's never been the whole story.

We are giving our opinions. They aren't always squeaky clean, but negative criticism doesn't equal toxicity. If we keep telling companies like Disney everything is fine because it has diversity then they will never work hard to tell good stories, they will consistently pander to an idea than to tell a good story
DarthAlgar
DarthAlgar - 6/17/2024, 1:02 PM
Well I'll be damned. This voice of reason is a breath of fresh air on here.

I hope the "squad" on here doesn't try to tear you down for it.

Well done.
ItsNotForMeWahh
ItsNotForMeWahh - 6/17/2024, 1:04 PM
@CreateNowSlpL8r - Excited to see content from other authors here!

You have done a great job detailing your view. No show is above criticism and that comes in many different forms depending on the person.

With your feelings toward the show, are you going to continue watching it?

I have not watch any episodes yet and while I may not be as concerned about a few of your points it does seem like the best call to wait to see how others feel once its as concluded
CreateNowSlpL8r
CreateNowSlpL8r - 6/17/2024, 2:03 PM
@ItsNotForMeWahh - You know, I'm not sure. I did watch the three episodes before I wrote this. You can't comment on it if you don't (or you shouldn't). My interest is providing the other POV is the evidence of what is wrong with the story as opposed to the more political aspect. There is certainly opportunity to continue to provide a peak into the brain of a traditionalist. The writers here will do what they do, for example, updates by episode. I could see an editorial on why as a tradionalist, I think the story failed.

I could do one on Obi-Wan right now and it has nothing to do with diversity. Who knows, maybe I will write it up. What is a traditionlist anyway? Maybe that is a good start.
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