AVENGERS: ENDGAME Co-Director Joe Russo Takes A "Box Office" Dig At Martin Scorsese In TikTok Video

AVENGERS: ENDGAME Co-Director Joe Russo Takes A "Box Office" Dig At Martin Scorsese In TikTok Video AVENGERS: ENDGAME Co-Director Joe Russo Takes A "Box Office" Dig At Martin Scorsese In TikTok Video

Avengers: Endgame co-director Joe Russo has responded to one of Martin Scorsese's TikTok videos with a little dig about the MCU's box office, and Film Twitter is up in arms...

By MarkCassidy - Oct 30, 2023 10:10 AM EST
Filed Under: Avengers: Endgame

Legendary Killers of the Flower Moon director Martin Scorsese has never minced words when it comes to his dislike for Marvel movies (the superhero genre overall, really), and this has not sat very well with some MCU fans.

In a recent GQ profile, Scorsese was asked about his previous comments on the subject, and made it clear that he believes comic book films (and huge studio blockbusters in general) may ultimately contribute to smaller, independent and art house movies being erased from the cinematic landscape completely.

“The danger there is what it’s doing to our culture,” he said. “Because there are going to be generations now that think movies are only those — that’s what movies are.”

“They already think that,” he continued. “Which means that we have to then fight back stronger. And it’s got to come from the grassroots level. It’s gotta come from the filmmakers themselves. And you’ll have, you know, the Safdie brothers, and you’ll have Chris Nolan, you know what I mean? And hit ’em from all sides. Hit ’em from all sides, and don’t give up. Let’s see what you got. Go out there and do it. Go reinvent. Don’t complain about it. But it’s true, because we’ve got to save cinema.”

While most tend to feel Scorsese is more than entitled to his opinion and don't take his comments all that seriously, others almost seem to view his dismissal of major superhero blockbusters as being little more than "rollercoaster rides" as a personal slight.

Now, Avengers: Infinity War and Endgame co-director Joe Russo has belatedly responded to Scorsese via a TikTok video. The original clip sees Scorsese asking his dog, Oscar, to "show me sadness," and Russo has added a little dig about his MCU films performing a lot better at the box office.

Though Russo is clearly just having a bit of fun here, he has been called out for being "petty," and Film Twitter (Film X?) is being predictably over-the-top about the whole thing, with Scorsese defenders falling over themselves to point out that Joe and his brother Anthony's post-MCU projects haven't exactly been major critical or commercial hits (though one could argue that their Netflix collaborations have performed very well for the streaming service overall).

What do you make of Russo's video? Do people need to lighten up and stop taking all of this back-and-forth so seriously, or should the filmmaker go get his f*ckin' shinebox and apologize to Marty? Be sure to drop us a comment down below.

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DrReedRichards - 10/30/2023, 10:05 AM
Zeitgeist. 😏
Evansly - 10/30/2023, 10:06 AM
That is pretty damn funny
Variant - 10/30/2023, 11:07 AM
@TheClunges - That's kind of the dig tho. Scorsese has "Oscar" performances but Russo's have higher "box office" performance.

And as much as I love Scorsese films -- they're probably my favorite -- he himself doesn't have a valid argument about cinema. There are many different genres to filmmaking and what he creates isn't the only way to produce cinema. Even down to the foundational attributes of a film, trying to say CBMs aren't cinema is just an asinine argument.
AquaClunge - 10/30/2023, 11:53 AM
@Variant - I defo agree with you..

Where the hell did my original comment go 😅 who did it offend 😮‍💨
CorndogBurglar - 10/30/2023, 2:06 PM
@Variant - Well said. Despite all of the arguing and disagreeing that goes on here on this site on a daily basis, I think we can all agree on what you're saying here.

Not every movie needs to be some psychological trip or have some deep underlying meaning in order to be "cinema". Sometimes people just want to watch something a little more straight forward. It's all entertainment and there's a place for all of it.

Scorsese has always come across to me as a self-important, contentious prick when he talks about what cinema is.

And like you, I have a big love and respect for his movies. But let's also not pretend like he hasn't made several movies in the same genre telling essentially the same story.

Ever since he started crying about super hero movies its really just felt like he's mad about how much money they make, and that he can't pull that kind of money anymore. In fact, he never could.
IronSpider101 - 10/30/2023, 3:18 PM
@Variant - I think you're correct that any genre can be cinema and that it would be asinine to say that just because something is based on a comic book superhero it can't be. Or that something primarily intended to entertain that is not cinema. That's a wrong perspective and if that's what he was saying, he'd be surely in the wrong.

But he IS talking about Marvel. And he IS right in that case. Marvel, DC, this whole last decade of films are not cinema. They're exactly what he said they were. They're theme park rides. You go, you have a certain set of expectations for what you think the experience will be, you rate the experience on how well it did or didn't live up to those expectations, you dispose of it as soon as it's digested. These movies are made by the studio first and the primary goal is to expand the brand.

The difference is very noticeable. Look alone at how different something like Spider-Verse or Joker are from the rest of them. Personal taste aside, it's clear those movies have ambitions that are more than just

"We need to introduce Skippy doo because we have to set up the Young Avengers storyline"

These movies have been heartless and soulless for a while, but they're fun distractions every so often. Like a theme park ride.
IronSpider101 - 10/30/2023, 3:21 PM
@CorndogBurglar - The difference is that even when Scorsese is repeating himself, he's trying new things with the material or trying to push it. He's never telling the same story or following the same beats, it's like he's trying to figure something out and taking multiple swings at it.

The MCU refuses to have any unbroken 5 minutes of quiet or talk. Someone at all times needs to be there to crack an unfunny joke or blow something up. God forbid there be a moment of sincerity.
CorndogBurglar - 10/30/2023, 4:15 PM
@IronSpider101 - I agree with everything you just said. I'm certainly not here to say all the MCU stuff is good or done well. It isn't.

But that's a bit of a different conversation. You can't say an entire genre of films isn't cinema, regardless of how many films in that genre are good or bad.
Equivocal - 10/31/2023, 12:12 AM
@Variant -

I have to agree with you 100% - you are correct !

the thing is, scorcece is just jealous that he can not pull that kind of box office success with his movies, he has some awesome movies, but to be honest, hi kinda makes the kind of movies all the time, if his mob movies were entertaining, probably more people would go to see them, but like a said before; he's jealous of global box office success, after all
he is Not Steven Spielberg !

GhostDog - 10/30/2023, 10:07 AM
It really isn't that deep but film twitter is full of folks who take everything too damn personal so...
DrReedRichards - 10/30/2023, 10:09 AM
@GhostDog -

*film reddit
Origame - 10/30/2023, 10:11 AM
Yup. This old man's comments that aren't even aimed at any movie in particular continue to just live rent free in their heads.

And what's worse is this is from the russo's. You'd think they of all would just let their films do the talking, but I guess they gotta get lumped into the pile 🙄
The1st - 10/30/2023, 10:55 AM
@Origame - Watching collective vitio...er, energy at work is always interesting. I caan say it didn't for me...I evicted immediately.
Origame - 10/30/2023, 11:03 AM
@The1st - ...so profound
Drace24 - 10/30/2023, 12:24 PM
@Origame - And the same logic does not apply to Scorsese because...?
philinterrupted - 10/30/2023, 12:28 PM
@Drace24 - because the Russo’s aren’t living rent free in Scorsese’s head. They have a 2 year lease that $2200 a month. They can office it because their movies make money.
Drace24 - 10/30/2023, 12:40 PM
@philinterrupted - Excuse me? It absolutely seems like Marvel's success is living rent free in Scorseses head. Otherwise I wonder why he felt the need throw this petty elitist shade in the first place and kept doing it for years now. He used to be a giant of the industry, as he likes to remind you a lot, but we can't expect him to be above it and let his oh so superior movies talk for him? He gets to fire shots at his collegues but when they joke about it, then they are the ones who need to be emotionally mature? Hypocrite.
Drace24 - 10/30/2023, 12:45 PM
@philinterrupted - Oh, okay, I get it now. My bad.
philinterrupted - 10/30/2023, 12:46 PM
@Drace24 - I was making a joke.

To be honest I hate the term “living rent free”. It’s so overused.

I think Scorsese is forgetting that movies need to be profitable. It’s unfortunately a business. And the theater going experience is dying. I understand his point but I think he needs to look at a lot of other factors and not just blame super hero movies.
Origame - 10/30/2023, 1:54 PM
@Drace24 - ...because he isn't constantly bringing it up out of nowhere.
Drace24 - 10/30/2023, 2:21 PM
@Origame - Except he is and has been for years now. Joe Russo has made one joke. Get real.
Origame - 10/30/2023, 2:59 PM
@Drace24 - no he hasn't been. He only mentioned anything here because an interviewer literally asked for him to clarify his point.
Drace24 - 10/30/2023, 5:43 PM
@Origame - How is that an excuse? Are you telling me he was left no choice other than to fire petty shots at collegues during an interview? What is this logic?
Origame - 10/30/2023, 8:47 PM
@Drace24 - first of all, these shots were at the genre. Not a single individual film and certainly not any film makers in particular. If you criticize the school I work at, that isn't automatically a shot at me.

Second, how do you expect him to respond? They asked, what did you mean, and he said what he meant. If anything it's the interviewer dragging old drama back up.
Drace24 - 11/1/2023, 3:46 PM
@Origame - Did you really think these arguments through before posting them? Sure, buddy. He fired shots against a whole lot of collegues, not just one. That's better... somehow. And it's the interviewers fault for Scorsese saying dumb shit like "Superhero movies aren't cinema, they are theme park rides". Who could have known that that would require some further explanation. There is no way Scorsese could have just never started this nonsense in the first place or used the opportunity to deescelate like "I didn't mean to attack anybodies work or taste in movies. I of all people should know that art is not a level of quality but simply the result of an artistic process that requires vision and passion, to which superhero movies are no exception. They may not be my cup of tea but I am very glad that the next generation of filmmakers and moviegoers are keeping the artform that I love alive."

Origame - 11/1/2023, 6:02 PM
@Drace24 - ...if you criticize the school I work at, that isn't an attack on me as a person.

The fact I have to tell you this is beyond ridiculous. I genuinely can't believe an adult doesn't realize this.
Drace24 - 11/1/2023, 7:30 PM
@Origame - That argument doesn't become better the second time around, buddy. Obviously when you make such a general statement against something, then everyone personally connected to it at the very least has reason to take it personal. You can pretend to not understand that concept and hastily declare an entirely unearned victory all you want. The fact that this seems to be how people take it AND you appear to already be out of arguments really says it all.

I just gave you a very basic example of how he could have handled the situation. But apperantly we can't expect that from a guy whose supposedly a genius at writing dialogue.
Origame - 11/1/2023, 8:51 PM
@Drace24 - I understand, but that's a child's mentality. By that logic you can't criticize anything, otherwise it's an attack on the person.

This is actually something I have to deal with my students. Several of them are under the impression I hate them when I give punishments. But it's not. It's just criticism of the behavior.

And these people have less reason to justify claiming an attack on them because it's not even about them. It can't be, because he doesn't even know them. He just knows the movies, which is all he's talking about.
Drace24 - 11/4/2023, 11:46 AM
@Origame - Man, you really try hard to make that "you a child"-thing stick, and yet you act totally befuddled by basic principles of respect. As if there were absolutely no way of constructively criticizing the MCU and he was forced to barf out some word salad about superhero movies being "theme park rides" and not "cinema". Whatever profound and deeply necessary analysis you tell yourself this was supposed to communicate, you can't tell me it wasn't classic elitist gatekeeping. The kind of which that still plagues Hollywood massively and he of all people should have absolutely been above. I would love to believe that it's not what he meant, but then why wouldn't he just correct himself instead of doubling down over and over? So I'll just accept the obvious: That he is a bitter out-of-touch dude, being bitter and out of touch.

Oh, so other people have told you the same thing? That's interesting. I happen to be a teacher as well and if several of my kids would tell me that they feel unfairly treated by me, I would at some point entertain the idea that maybe I really am doing something wrong?

Wow, what an argument. Someone really just told me that it's impossible to insult someone you don't know... on the internet! The slowest of all claps for that.
Origame - 11/4/2023, 12:02 PM
@Drace24 - 1) it isn't disrespectful in the slightest. It's him pointing out a legitimate issue he has with the genre. You're acting like the only way to be respectful is if he only says good things about something.

2) you say it's disrespectful yet you can't even describe it beyond word salad and the two parts youre offended by.

Look, he's simply saying they're there for fun and aren't what he defines cinema. I don't agree with it, as I'm a fan and have seen its potential from an artistic perspective, but nothing about it is him being disrespectful. Just ignorant. Instead of whining about him "disrespecting the genre", how's about countering it with facts like joker or infinity war?

3) fine, I won't tell you. It's just showing how this will always live rent free in your head. Which, if anything, proves his point. If what he said was so wrong, why won't people like you just let it go?

4) as for your example, while I agree actually thinking about maybe it could've been me that's the problem, that doesn't mean it is so. Especially when it's objective they're misbehaving. Like screaming in class.

No joke, I once had a student screaming in the middle of class. When I gave him a punishment he then pointed out another student was also speaking out in class. Said student I called on to give a presentation. Am I really supposed to give that kid credit and think I might be the problem? No, of course not. And that's the logic I'm using here. Debunk his claims and move on with your life ffs.

5) you're acting like he named anyone or any individual film specifically. He didn't. He called on the genre in general.
Drace24 - 11/5/2023, 11:30 AM
@Origame - Okay, I can see you really REALLY don't want to admit it. No matter what I say, you'll just perform more mental gymnastics. There is nothing to debunk or argue against because there is no point to it beyond gatekeeping and just being bitter. He could have also said: "Taylor Swift music isn't real music! It's a suspension bridge!", two just objectively nonsensical statements, and you would still bend over backwards to find some profound meaning in there and write essays about how it has noooothing to do with Taylor Swift.

This is pointless and I'm not interested in your personal anecdotes. A few comments ago I gave you a very basic example of how he could have cleaned up all misunderstandings. The fact that he never even bothered to explain what he supposedly meant in a respectful and deescelating way shows me that this is exactly what he meant and he is quite happy with having pissed people off. The cycle of snobbery is complete, I guess. Why can't they just go out with dignity, man. It's just sad to watch.

Bye.
Origame - 11/5/2023, 11:34 AM
@Drace24 - Jesus christ dude. Literally my whole point is it was years ago, he made an argument, and you should've just debunked it and moved on.

And he did explain what he meant. Jesus.
regularmovieguy - 10/30/2023, 10:12 AM
Scorcese still living rent free.
Fogs - 10/30/2023, 11:00 AM
@regularmovieguy - wait isn't that the opposite?
Drace24 - 10/30/2023, 12:19 PM
@regularmovieguy - Excuse me, who keeps attacking Marvel for years now? Atleast Russo was only joking.
regularmovieguy - 10/30/2023, 1:49 PM
@Drace24

He was literally asked about them in an interview and gave his honest opinion. I'm not sure why Marvel fans are so up in arms over this.

I like these movies and don't really think he's wrong in anything he's said.
Origame - 10/30/2023, 1:56 PM
@regularmovieguy - yeah. The specific question was even just asking for him to elaborate on what he meant back then.
Drace24 - 10/30/2023, 2:37 PM
@regularmovieguy - So he just had to fire petty shots at his collegues? How does that make sense?
Enough already. You can write all the essays you want convincing yourself how completely innocent and secretely brilliant he is, but none of this is new or unfamiliar. He is cranky because he has lost his relevance so he does what boomers do and makes semi-coherent rants about the things kids are into these days. That's it.
Superheromoviefan - 10/30/2023, 10:13 AM
do people really complain about russos joke?
AnthonyVonGeek - 10/30/2023, 10:14 AM
Oh look rich entitled people fighting….
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