Russo Brothers Talk AVENGERS Return And Doctor Doom Plans; DOOMSDAY Seemingly Adds Another MCU Actor/Composer

Russo Brothers Talk AVENGERS Return And Doctor Doom Plans; DOOMSDAY Seemingly Adds Another MCU Actor/Composer

Avengers: Doomsday and Avengers: Secret Wars directors the Russo Brothers have talked more about their MCU return and casting Robert Downey Jr. as Doctor Doom. We also have news on a likely composer...

News
By JoshWilding - Jul 29, 2024 05:07 AM EST
Filed Under: Avengers: Secret Wars

At this weekend's San Diego Comic-Con, Marvel Studios welcomed Joe and Anthony Russo back to the MCU by announcing them as the new directors of Avengers: Doomsday and Avengers: Secret Wars. 

Shortly after that memorable Hall H panel concluded, the Russo Brothers described Secret Wars as "the book that made us fall in love with comics." Now, they shared a lengthier statement about their return and the decision to cast Robert Downey Jr. as Doctor Doom. 

You’re the best damn fans in the world, and we’ve missed you.

When we made Avengers: Endgame we truly believed that it was the end of the road for us in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.  We had put all the passion, love and imagination that we had into the Winter Soldier, Civil War, Infinity War, and then culminated it all with Endgame. All within a few years. We had spent everything we had creatively, and we left all our emotions on the floor.  But in the time since, we began to feel that there was perhaps one story where we could find a new narrative path forward. It’s the reason we fell in love with comic books in the first place. That story is Secret Wars.

We cannot express how excited we are to dive back into this world, and explore such a deliciously complex character like Victor Von Doom. And there is no better friend or collaborator to do that with, [than] THE great [Robert Downey Jr.]. 

Marvel fam, let’s do this...

The response to Downey playing Doom hasn't been the home run Marvel Studios likely expected. In fact, it wouldn't be unfair to call it a mixed reaction, largely because there's so much confusion about whether he's Doom or a Tony Stark Variant masquerading as the villain!

You can see the Russos' Instagram post below (and then keep scrolling for more Avengers news). 

Stephen McFeely has been announced as the writer of both Doomsday and Secret Wars, confirming Marvel Studios has moved on from Michael Waldron and Jeff Loveness. 

Alan Silvestri composed the scores for Captain America: The First Avenger, The Avengers, Avengers: Age of Ultron, Avengers: Infinity War, and Avengers: Endgame. Now, many fans are convinced he's confirmed his involvement with the upcoming Multiverse Saga Avengers movies.

Jeremy Renner also made a point of sharing the logos for both movies on his Instagram Stories; that presumably means recent reports about him returning as Hawkeye for those were correct. 

Avengers: Doomsday will be released in May 2026 with Avengers: Secret Wars set to follow in May 2027.

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From A RICK AND MORTY Overload To Robert Downey Jr.'s Return - Charting The Multiverse Saga's Wild Evolution
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Urubrodi
Urubrodi - 7/29/2024, 5:45 AM
I hope he is a Victor Von Doom that happens to look like the Tony Stark from Earth-616. But I know that by saying that I'll be called crazy and accused of coping by some people around here.
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 7/29/2024, 5:59 AM
@Urubrodi - not the first time two seperate characters were played by the same character. I don't mind at all. Moreover, I think it's genius.

And what's there to cope even? It is what it is. They're going with it, so we just have to accept it.
Urubrodi
Urubrodi - 7/29/2024, 6:15 AM
@bkmeijer1 - No idea man, but McMurdo for example thinks it's obvious he is gonna be a Tony variant and that is even stupid to discuss other alternatives. But yeah, I actually really like the possibility of him just being Victor. Similar to how you have Evans being Cap and Human Torch (of course in a much larger scale). RDJ is one of the best actors of his genration and just showed in Oppenheimer that he can be a great antagonist. Looking forward.
YouCray04
YouCray04 - 7/29/2024, 6:44 AM
@Urubrodi - 100% agree. He will most likely be heavily scarred/disfigured. Also considering the fact that Doom rarely takes off his mask because of his scars, they could easily pull off RDJ as the real Victor Von Doom and not a Stark variant.
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 7/29/2024, 6:54 AM
@Urubrodi - I don't know where everybody is getting it from he's a Stark variant when the Russos even announced him as Victor von Doom. I think it's great casting.

Marvel is getting a lot of cakes and eat them too. RDJ is back, Iron Man's legacy is untainted, they get Doom, they get an "oh shit, trouble" reaction to Doom, no build-up needed, and we get Secret Wars in all its glory.
BeyondtheFuture
BeyondtheFuture - 7/29/2024, 8:29 AM
@Urubrodi - it’s not stupid but it is obvious.
You don’t get the emotional moments if he’s not connected to the og character he played. Also the announcement says “I give you the one person who can play this role” he’s the one person because it’s part of the story they are telling. He costs a fortune - if he’s not connected to iron man they would have chosen someone else. In fact in secret wars I would bet he plays dual roles. And of course the og 5 avengers will all return. You have to think about it from the perspective of the GA.
BeyondtheFuture
BeyondtheFuture - 7/29/2024, 8:32 AM
@BeyondtheFuture - at some point in the film there will be a moment where he unmasks and they say the face of the hero who died for them. There just will otherwise it’s a pointless casting choice and a waste of money. Doom literally could have been anyone there are at least ten incredible choices. They’ve chosen him to put their characters through the emotional wringer and to make it a must see for the GA.
malschla
malschla - 7/29/2024, 9:41 AM
@bkmeijer1 - Why do you think it is genius?
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 7/29/2024, 10:35 AM
@malschla - kinda already wrote it in my other comment in this thread as well. To summarise, Marvel doesn't to do any build-up.

Both to the general audience and the in-universe characters this invokes a sense of dread. Not only does he bring trouble, he does so with a face not associated with villainy.

It's the shortest route to the biggest pay-off. Any other casting or villain needs build-up, while this doesn't need any getting used to.
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 7/29/2024, 11:16 AM
@CorndogBurglar - well, Gemma Chan, or Michelle Yeoh or even Chris Evans didn't mean anything either.

With RDJ though, they are definitely gonna capitalize on it. It gets the general audience in the seats (obviously). No build-up needed. They don't have to make us care for the character like with Thanos or Kang, because we care about seeing RDJ.

As for the in-universe characters, it is harrowing to see the biggest villain wear the face of the biggest hero. That's mind games. Exactly the kind of gamed I expect Doom to play.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 7/29/2024, 11:20 AM
@bkmeijer1 @Urubrodi

I keep flip flopping on this whole topic.

On the one hand, I feel like there has to be a reason they got RDJ for this, other than he's a great actor and it helps bring fans back in by the GOAT of the MCU returning. Like, they must be trying to capitalize on him looking like Stark.

But on the other side, Doom's face is horribly disfigured. We've seen his origin story. He had a small scar, and when he covered his face with the mask, it was still hit and burning and horribly disfigured him.

So, they technically don't even need to show RDJ's face. And if they do, it could be covered in makeup and prosthetics. When we see Doom's face in Secret Wars 2016 he doesn't even have a nose. They could easily make him unrecognizable as RDJ, while still maintaining an accurate Doom and capitalizing on his acting talent.

I'm really confused by this casting, I can tell you that. And I see people all over going back and forth about whether he'll be a Stark variant or not. And I've come to the conclusion that there are string arguments for both sides.

Yes, they introduced him as playing Victor Von Doom. That is the argument I initially thought too. But Marvel has swerved us so many times. We need look no further than Iron Man 3 to know that they have told us an actor will be playing one character and then realizing it was a swerve. At least in this case, whether he's Victor Von Doom or a Stark Variant, we at least know he will be Dr Doom.

But at the same time, do you really go and pick up the actor that was THEE face of the MCU for so long if you aren't going to make it mean something in the story? Will RDJ be okay with never showing his face except in maybe origin flashbacks?

All of these points are valid, on both sides of the argument. So I really don't know what to think anymore. I thought I had it figured out, but I really dont know anymore.
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 7/29/2024, 11:30 AM
@CorndogBurglar - true, they played us a lot before. If they didn't wanna make it clear it wasn't Victor, I believe they would've introduced him simply as Dr. Doom.

I think we'll see him both scarred and unscarred though. Scarred in Doomsday, and then suddenly unscarred in Secret Wars. He has that power as God Emperor Doom after all to that that.

And I think it's fully in line with Victor to just take Stark's face. He's probably jealous and it's a great way to play mind games on the Avengers.
malschla
malschla - 7/29/2024, 4:58 PM
@bkmeijer1 - That's why I think it is foolish. Things without build up tend to fizzle out, because there is no real substance.

It also fundamentally misunderstands why people enjoyed RDJ as Iron Man. It's because his character was built up for a decade so people became invested in his character's journey.

This announcement will certainly generate headlines, but it's a publicity stunt that will cause confusion for the general movie-going public.
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 7/29/2024, 5:25 PM
@malschla - the reasons you give are exactly why I think it needs no build up. That 10 year arc is the build up.

We know RDJ as Iron Man, and the journey he took. We saw what it takes for an ego-driven scientific intellect to become the ultimate hero, so it's easy to imagine how you go from that to a villain.

And that works especially well for the GA. It immediately evokes a sense of "oh shit he's a villain, that means that's bad business."
malschla
malschla - 7/29/2024, 11:49 PM
@bkmeijer1 - You just contradicted yourself. On one hand, you’re making the statement that this is Victor Von Doom, not Tony Stark… but now you’re saying that Tony’s character development carries over to Victor. What happened to them being different people?
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 7/30/2024, 2:32 AM
@malschla - I'm not saying they're the same, but have the same personality (ego-driven scientific intellectual) initially. They are different people though.

We know Tony Stark moved in one direction (heroism), and even saw him pull some villainous moves in AoU and CW, so it's not hard to imagine how a character like that turns evil completely.
malschla
malschla - 7/31/2024, 10:42 AM
@bkmeijer1 - ...to a fan of comics who knows all of that(maybe). To the general audience who doesn't know that? They will be disconnected and confused without any build up.
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 7/31/2024, 11:04 AM
@malschla - probably, but the same general audience watched AoU and CW. Doesn't take a fan of the comics to know how character arcs work and can be distinguished from each other
malschla
malschla - 7/31/2024, 11:23 AM
@bkmeijer1 - Right... so casting RDJ as Doom does nothing to help, and really only has the potential to confuse people. This isn't a genius move, it's basic sensationalism with no substance.
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 7/31/2024, 11:26 AM
@malschla - right now, it is just there to generate buzz. And buzz gets people in the seats, but I think the Russos know they have to come up with a great narrative reason, built upon that audience knowledge, for the audience to stay in those seats. And CW and IW are proof they can
malschla
malschla - 7/31/2024, 4:48 PM
@bkmeijer1 - From “genius” to “just to generate buzz”.
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 7/31/2024, 5:15 PM
@malschla - those two aren't mutually exclusive. It's genius, both marketing-wise and cutting corners narratively.
malschla
malschla - 7/31/2024, 7:53 PM
@bkmeijer1 - They aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive, but for it to be considered “genius” level buzz generating, it would have needed to generate mostly positive buzz. That didn’t happen. Not even by a long shot.

The old PT Barnum quote is not a true statement. There is such thing as bad publicity. When approximately twice as many people think it was a bad idea as those who think it was a good idea, that is the definition of bad buzz. That doesn’t mean the movie will be bad, but it certainly isn’t “genius” PR.

bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 8/1/2024, 1:37 AM
@malschla - within the fandom, more people seem to dislike than like it. Going by the poll results it's not double though. Half of voters is wait and see.

For the general audience, it will create positive buzz. They're the real target demographic and they need to be appeased. Which is easy, since they're not biased due to comic knowledge.
malschla
malschla - 8/1/2024, 12:41 PM
@bkmeijer1 - Read what I wrote again: there are nearly twice as many people who hate it (1420) as there are who love it (841).

For the general audience, this will cause confusion. They will wonder why Iron Man is now a bad guy. It is needlessly confusing. This isn't genius, it is desperation. You don't do stunts like this when things are going well.
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 8/1/2024, 1:19 PM
@malschla - those results are definitely telling. But it's filled in by users from this site, and it stands to reason most are fans and are biased based on their comic knowledge. I do really wanna see the poll taken by the general audience.

But yeah, it's definitely stunt casting. But I believe they're not pulling this stunt if they don't believe they can stick the landing.
malschla
malschla - 8/1/2024, 2:08 PM
@bkmeijer1 - Nothing would make me happier than them sticking the landing. If they even get close, I'll be thrilled, because from my vantage point, Marvel is about to faceplant.

Their biggest issue is they keep making things too complicated. They need to get back to basics.
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 8/1/2024, 4:53 PM
@malschla - that we agree on. Do wonder what you think makes it so complicated though? If they give a reason for why Doom looks like Stark in the movie, it should be clear right
malschla
malschla - 8/2/2024, 11:16 AM
@bkmeijer1 - Okay, so they already set the precedent that variants don't all look the same (i.e. Spider-Man and Loki). That was dumb, and it didn't fit with what they did in Endgame, but fine. Whatever.

So, variants of one person can look like whatever.

Now, completely DIFFERENT people can look identical?

When you combine those two "rules", now anybody could be anybody and there is no logical sense. It's a recipe for disaster.

Now, they could say "oh, this Doom is actually Stark's grandson" or a clone or a Doombot who is the evolved version of Ultron. But at that point, you're changing the character so much that why is he even Doom?

Now, I will also say this: I don't think he is Victor Von Doom. I know they said he is, but they also lie a lot. But... IF he is actually Victor Von Doom, from Latveria, and essentially the classic character from the comics ported reasonably faithfully to screen, then casting RDJ is going to cause nothing but confusion, and it shows a lack of faith in your ability to tell a story.
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 8/2/2024, 11:58 AM
@malschla - good points. I think if it was gonna be anyone but Victor von Doom, they would've introduced him simply as Dr. Doom.

The way I could see it work is if he's heavily scarred in Doomsday, but as he takes the Beyonders powers and creates Battleworld he also restores his face. To appear friendly though, he takes Stark's face instead.

But right now, it's wait and see. I'm very optimistic about their ability to pull it off though.
malschla
malschla - 8/2/2024, 10:37 PM
@bkmeijer1 - Maybe? I’d probably “accept” that, but it just delays something that didn’t need to be delayed. They could have likely had anyone to take that role (Doom). That’s one casting where the excitement is as much on the character as it is the actor.

I guess I would prefer Marvel to go back to taking risks. When they cast Downey, Evans, Hemsworth, Pratt (especially) they were blasted for not picking “better” or “higher profile” actors.
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 8/3/2024, 2:13 AM
@malschla - I really can't think of another actor that would've generated the same (negative of positive) buzz. But this is indeed very risk-averse
malschla
malschla - 8/3/2024, 8:32 AM
@bkmeijer1 - I can’t, either, but that’s just because I don’t really know any names of actors. lol

The best thing that can happen over the next few years as this plays out is a reboot that eliminates the concept of the multiverse from the next iteration of the MCU.

As much as I loved Endgame, I had a super awesome story idea on how you could have kept 99.999% of the story they did and then tied in a reboot, as well.
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 8/4/2024, 8:27 AM
@malschla - I doubt they're going for a reboot, but they're definitely gonna stop with the multiverse
malschla
malschla - 8/4/2024, 11:53 PM
@bkmeijer1 - It’ll be unfortunate if they don’t reboot. People want the classic characters. If they reboot, they could start with X-Men and some others they haven’t really used, and then slowly work some of the MCU favorite over time. They could probably even skip origin stories if they really wanted to. Marvel has a great opportunity to come out of their slump stronger than ever. But they need some humble pie.
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 8/5/2024, 8:17 AM
@malschla - true, but skipping origins would be kinda boring imo. Be way more interesting to watch the backstory than to have it only mentioned
malschla
malschla - 8/5/2024, 3:49 PM
@bkmeijer1 - I absolutely agree. I just mention it because so many directors and screenwriters seem to lament the origin stories.

If I were in charge of starting a new MCU, we would absolutely start with an FF origin story. Follow it up with a pre X-men Xavier and Magneto buddy adventure, and then add in Spidey. Iron Man’s 2997 film is almost the perfect origin film, so I might skip over it and go right to the Avengers searching for a frozen Cap.


Having all four major tentpole franchises at one time would allow for some really cool interactions and crossovers.
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 8/5/2024, 6:17 PM
@malschla - having Iron Man and Cap interact with the X-Men and FF would be really cool. If the multiverse is good for one thing, it can give is that.
ProfessorWhy
ProfessorWhy - 7/29/2024, 5:46 AM
I can't be negative about this. The f ucking clouds are parting
ProfessorWhy
ProfessorWhy - 7/29/2024, 5:48 AM
@ProfessorWhy - and like they've done earlier, I believe that the end will redeem the means to get there to the same degree that Love & Thunder undid the journey of Ragnarok
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