Finally, A Criminal We Can All Believe In

Finally, A Criminal We Can All Believe In

Now I know a lot of people are totally against the idea of Two-Face surviving a three story fall, but I'm not one of them. I think Harvey surviving his fatal fall would make alot of sense when it comes to figuring out how this epic story should end and as always I have a list of points that would show how Two-Face fits into the final movie.

Editorial Opinion
By tset22 - Jul 27, 2010 06:07 PM EST
Filed Under: Batman
Source: comicbookmovie.com

First off big thanks to all who read my previous editorial I put a lot of work into it and thank you so much for the feedback. Now if you have not read my previous editorial please read it to fully understand this editorial. For everyone else who have read it lets get down to business!!

1. Not every good villain makes good sense: Now ill be the first to say that batman has a lot of great villains (dead shot, black mask, hush) but come on how do they fit in the story we already have, the only way to introduce them is to alter the story we already have. I can see dead shot tracking down the bat but how long would that movie be 30-45 mins? maybe a animated film or for the reboot but that is just too much of a stretch for the story that is being told, but dent is different, he is already in the story and with the loss of the woman he loved most its easy to see him taking down the ones that are responsible (corrupt police department and batman) in his mind he would be correcting mistakes made by his former allies. Also dent is known in the comics as a crime boss, and every villain so far has been introduced by another character. For example it all started with bruce he wanted to understand the mind of a criminal and the only one who could help him is a man who has sworn his life against crime ras al gohul, then ras talks to bruce about overcoming fear enter scare crow, next gordon show batman a joker card in the final scene of batman begins, and finally the joker passes on his chaos theory which creates two face as the new killer in town.

2. Its been done: Now one big problem to my argument is simple HE IS DEAD!!!! but then i took another look at TDK and i realized that he wouldn't be the first one to pull off his own resurrection, first it started with the joker playing dead to get close enough to gamble to kill him, then gordon offing himself to protect his family and if you look at it that way you could see that it wouldn't take that much imagination to see dent survive (besides he made it out of a car crash that killed two people with out so much as a scratch)

3. Vengeance shall be mine: Never mind that he is a stone cold killer, never mind that he is a natural born leader and is a very driven character, the man is pissed off. Two face feels betrayed by two man that he felt he could trust and he was out for blood in TDK, and if nolan does bring him back we will get a two face that is dangerous not just because he is a killer, but because he believes what he is doing is right, with half of his face blown off he is now the symbol for the way gotham truly is, half believes in good and justice, and half believe in selfishness and greed. Two face wants to not only kill batman but re-shape gotham has he now sees it and no other villain is as motivated as him.

4. Follow the leader: When looking at gotham as a whole its easy to see how gotham citizens and gotham criminals are each others parallels, they both are without direction and a leader. Harvey dent was a man for the people and put his life on the line to protect them, now that he has a new persona as two face he could be just the villain gotham thugs need to rally behind, imagine how united the cooks would be when there former enemy joins them in a plan to take over the city, also he is a criminal that batman would be conflicted to fight because batman feels so responsible for allowing the joker to kill harvey's reputation and gotham's one ray of hope

5. The truth will set you free: Now i am a firm believer of finishing what you started and the best finish to this story is for gotham to know the real truth about batman and harvey. True batman will have to be hated and victimized for much of the movie, but true fans of batman want to see gotham accept batman to some degree, and what better way than to find out that harvey dent is the real killer and threat to gotham, gordon even told his son that batman is the hero gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now, that can only mean that there is a day coming when batman will be trusted to clean up gotham, this would allow things to reset it self making the way for more stories with either batman or robin without conflict from the citizens in gotham.

The fact is that two face is one of the more interesting villains in comic book history, because he is motivated by his feeling of betrayal, not money or power, but he feels that he was wronged by the people he trusted, the ones who he believed to be peace keepers were the ones that did him in. He lives in a world of constant duality were right and wrong is judged by a two sided coin, his distrust for humanity forces him to believe in chance as the only true form of justice, he doesn't hide behind the vial of good or evil he is the symbol for both and to simply kill a character that tortured is irresponsible, he is a demon that will hunt not just batman but gordon as well, we need him back so that he can finish his journey through light and darkness.

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McGinnis
McGinnis - 7/27/2010, 7:54 PM
I don't agree with your comparison of the fake deaths especially with the Joker because it's not hard to lie limp and let some people carry you in a garbage bag. I do agree thought that he should not have died.Great article.
OdinsBeard
OdinsBeard - 7/27/2010, 8:34 PM
plot master22@ you truly are the plot MASTER! i never even thought of the other fake deaths! i always rooted my "alive" theory in the fact that batman dropped maroni from about that high and the line he said "nah, a fall from this height wouldn't kill you" or something to that effect. but if you watch other nolan movies you see that he always gives you hints to what you think are plot holes by other parallel experiences within the film. spot on.

and number four on your list is one of the biggest reasons. in BB you had Falconi. in TDK you had Maroni. now the mob will rally behind Two-Face, because he's beaten and bullied them with fear. same thing batman does. only Two-Face is helping them now. he would take up that mob leader role the first two movies had and that gotham as a character needs.

love your rundown of how Dent is a mirror image of gotham.

and the additional villain in this (ala scarecrow and joker) would be the riddler. he should get famous by leaving gotham public riddles. either outside on the street oh through all types of media, just keep coming out with new riddles and they should be hinting that Dent is still alive and/or that he knows who batman is. or maybe he could leave a few private riddles for Batman to find.

but i don't think the trilogy would be complete without Ras Al Ghul returning!! or would that be cashing in to many back-from-the-dead chips?
AverageCitizen99
AverageCitizen99 - 7/27/2010, 8:48 PM
@plot_master
I read what you said, and I think it would be cool to see Two-Face back but that all depends on Nolan. I really liked your ideas though. :)
TheQuestion
TheQuestion - 7/27/2010, 9:00 PM
Wow, you have some great ideas here. I've always been a firm believer that Two-Face is alive, and the ending was left ambiguous for a reason. You never see Two-Face in a coffin, his coin lands HEADS UP when he falls, and in interviews Nolan only says that "Harvey Dent" is dead, but never calls him "Two-Face". Clearly they meant to bring Joker back, but now that he's out of the question, they have to go to the B-Team. Thankfully, Eckhart was awesome as Two-Face, so no concerns there!
AverageCitizen99
AverageCitizen99 - 7/27/2010, 9:07 PM
P.S.
Disregard the comments I made about OdinsBeard. It was a misunderstanding.
ButtNakedSmurf
ButtNakedSmurf - 7/27/2010, 9:17 PM
@plot master- dude Nolan said himself the 2face is dead and isnt coming back. they burried him remember
tset22
tset22 - 7/27/2010, 9:34 PM
to comment on odins beard i think talia al gouhl should be involved it would make a much bigger impact to the movie she could give bruce and batman one more shot at love and we get a hot female lead out of it
tset22
tset22 - 7/27/2010, 9:38 PM
and to the question i'm with you the whole tone of the story in TDK was dark no place for a white knight harvey had to die so two face could be born
OdinsBeard
OdinsBeard - 7/27/2010, 9:44 PM
TheQuestion@ another solid batch of reasons!

plot master22@ and there ya have it... the trilogy all tied up, with all cool important villains being used in a story that makes sense. nice job man.

i've just never read much about Talia so i can't root for her one way or another. and i always thought it'd be cool to have one true Ras-is-really-immortal thing. like if batman could escape the train... couldn't the guy who trained him??? but Talia makes it easier and if i had to chose i'll take Dent over Ras.

ButtNakedSmurf@ when did they bury him? i could be drawing a total blank i have no idea - but i just remember the memorial in the streets with the picture of dent. no body, coffin or grave. who knows... and yes nolan did say but what if he was trying to keep an ace up his sleeve - i remember after BB came out Nolan said that he wasn't going to do the joker because that was just a nod to the first movie - which didn't tackle the origin story and he fought the joker. he could've been telling the truth because they didn't know if there would be a sequel or not - or he could've been "playing it close to the chest"

Average@ you got on here too did ya! lol i didn't see those before... tuche...
ButtNakedSmurf
ButtNakedSmurf - 7/27/2010, 10:00 PM
@OdinsBeard- why would they hold a memorial service for him if he wasnt dead? Batman tackled Gent off the building and then when Gordon came down Harvey was still laying there. do you honestly think Gordon would just leave a body laying there so it could magicaly come back to life?
OdinsBeard
OdinsBeard - 7/27/2010, 10:13 PM
No i dont think that - i think they could have hid him away so joker's last laugh would never be heard. that was his master plan, to destroy dent and kill gothams hopes. they would hold a memorial service so everyone would think he was dead and not see the disfigured, homocidal freak their hero became. it would be the only way to beat joker - otherwise he pretty much won.

Batman tackled Dent off of the ledge, right. But he also dropped Maroni onto concrete from that high and they flat out say he's not going to die, then he doesn't die - why would Dent die?

dude, i could be reading way to much into this and you could be right. but the fact is it's a fictional story and if someone wanted to use Two-Face it would be perfectly concieveable.
ButtNakedSmurf
ButtNakedSmurf - 7/27/2010, 10:15 PM
@OdinsBeard- theres this new thing they have out called a closed casket funeral
OdinsBeard
OdinsBeard - 7/27/2010, 10:17 PM
where was the casket? they could have very easily put a coffin out there and say he was inside. i doubt the body is ever even there for large public funerals in real life anyway.

it could go so many ways.
ButtNakedSmurf
ButtNakedSmurf - 7/27/2010, 10:19 PM
funeral or not thats besides the fact that nolan said even b4 he was confirmed to do a 3rd film that if he did do a 3rd batman there would be no 2face because hes dead
OdinsBeard
OdinsBeard - 7/27/2010, 10:31 PM
correct - even Ekhart himself said that. but the death of heath ledger might have made him have to change his plans. all we're saying it that it is possible and also a very good way to wrap up a three movie arc without the joker.
ButtNakedSmurf
ButtNakedSmurf - 7/27/2010, 10:38 PM
im sorry but i have to continue to disagree but only because Nolan said no 2face after Ledger died. now if he had said it b4 he died i would agree with you but he didnt. i would have loved to have seen 2face in the 3rd film but its not going to happen
jjmeylar
jjmeylar - 7/27/2010, 10:51 PM
I want "Batman Forever" minus Robin. Plain and simple.
tset22
tset22 - 7/27/2010, 11:24 PM
okay i love dicussion as much as the next guy and the fact is that this is just one story and if the demand for two face is loud enough nolan will have to listen, director or no alot of people believe he is still alive and if dent really is dead why was his death so open ended, he dies but there is no casket just a picture and if you pay attenion the picture was of harvey dent not two face which shows that there is no way his true body is shown secondly its really easy to imagine that dent got up and fled the scene before police or anyone else could tag 'em and bag 'em, also the fact that he is still alive would be a dark cloud over dents head he could even use e.nymga to find dent quietly, the fact is if 2face is alive it will make for a great story
NightBat
NightBat - 7/27/2010, 11:38 PM
Nice article....Harvey Dent is dead, Two-Face is alive, the funeral was to keep the citizens of Gotham in the dark about Harvey turning into Two-Face and I'm sure the body was "stashed" somewhere so the other officers couldn't see what happened to Harveys face....I can't wait for the next Batman movie....nuff said
Ven0m
Ven0m - 7/28/2010, 9:05 AM
I agree with the Bats NO way two face is dead. He probably will resurface.
airbeyonder18
airbeyonder18 - 7/28/2010, 9:28 AM
I love it. It's how I've always envisioned Dent would be in the 3rd film. I just hope Nolan brings him back. If Heath were still alive and was to be in the 3rd film I think that they should have still revived Dent and have Joker and Dent team up a little in the 3rd film, if you remeber some scenes with the two together in the 2nd film it would make sense and be pretty cool to see them both be unofficial partners in the 3rd film. Just wishful thinking of course.
airbeyonder18
airbeyonder18 - 7/28/2010, 9:30 AM
Ven0m: It's up to Nolan whether or not he resurfaces. I hope he does.
ButtNakedSmurf
ButtNakedSmurf - 7/28/2010, 9:46 AM
@everyone- ok fine if you all wanna believe 2face is still alive then go ahead but when Batman 3 comes out and theres no 2face expect a big fat i told you so from me
Twenty23Three
Twenty23Three - 7/28/2010, 11:20 AM
Im still trying to get my head around that, after spending the whole moving debating whether or not he can/should kill the joker, he finally wins in his way...and in celebration? throws two face off a building to his death...ooook then
countrymadness
countrymadness - 7/28/2010, 4:05 PM
YES!!!!! bring him back :)
ThomYorke
ThomYorke - 7/28/2010, 4:34 PM
easy way to bring him back which is also logical. he was put into a coma after the fall
thetrubatman14
thetrubatman14 - 7/28/2010, 5:58 PM
THEY SHOULD DO THAT WITH THE JOKER. AND ICAN ONLY HOPE THATS WHAT THEYRE DOING WITH HEATH LEDGER =( PRETENDING HE'S DEAD. that would be so EPIC!!!
cchriswake13
cchriswake13 - 7/28/2010, 7:02 PM
He's DEAD YOU IDIOTS
ButtNakedSmurf
ButtNakedSmurf - 7/28/2010, 9:29 PM
@cchriswake13- thank you! ive been trying to tell evyone that but they just wont [frick]ing listen
JLAAvengers
JLAAvengers - 7/28/2010, 9:36 PM
Remember Harvey is dead but two face on the other hand .......
NightBat
NightBat - 7/28/2010, 9:37 PM
@cchriswake13 and ButtNakedSmurt..He's alive.. :)
ButtNakedSmurf
ButtNakedSmurf - 7/28/2010, 10:54 PM
@NightBat- like i said, continue to believe that all you want but when batman 3 rolls around and there no 2face i'll be there to shove it in your face :)
NightBat
NightBat - 7/29/2010, 12:54 AM
@ButtNakedSmurt..Ok, you're on but if you "shove" something into my face, can it at least be chocolate chip cookie cake??
kyle
kyle - 7/29/2010, 5:17 PM
how about no insult to ledger, and no two-face

MARION COTILLARD AS CATWOMAN
LEONARDO DICAPRIO OR JOESPH GORDON LEVITT AS RIDDLER

CATWOMAN AS THE LOVE INTEREST, RIDDLER BEING A CYBERTERRORIST AND SHOVING EVERYTHING DOWN BRUCE AND BATMAN'S THROAT, AND U HAVE A MASTERPIECE.
OriginalPhysco
OriginalPhysco - 7/29/2010, 6:34 PM
A fake death doesn't have to be said. However you and everyone else knows how Two Face can be resurrected. Stop forgetting dude is dead! There is only one solution to him being in the third Batman film; The Lazarus Pit!
The Lazarus Pits are mythical vats of arcane chemicals in the DC comics universe. The most common user of the pits is Ra's al Ghul. Ra's al Ghul accidentally discovered the first Lazarus Pit as a cure for the dying son of a sultan he worked for. The Pit had a terible side effect, however; it turned the Prince temporarily insane, leading to him killing the doctor's wife.

After being blamed for the murder, the man who would become Ra's Al Ghul was buried in the desert. He was rescued by a tribe and a boy named Huew. After this he used the Lazarus Pit to save himself, and vowed to take avenge his wife. The doctor gave himself the title Ra's al Ghul - The Demon's Head.

After he met Batman others started to learn of the Pits. Users include Jason Todd, The Black Canary II (Dinah Laurel Lance), The Riddler, Cassandra Cain, Lady Shiva, The Joker, Kobra, Nora Fries, King Snake, Duela Dent, and Bane.

Unfortunately the Pits can only be used by one person and only once, by that user. Ra's al Ghul's daughter, Talia, found a way to stop this and manipulate the Pits for endless use.

After a mass wipe out of the Pits, only four are left. One is owned by Ra's al Ghul's daughter Nyssa; one lies in the Batcave, another in the Himalayas, and one in the Australian Outback.

As mentioned before, the Pits' alchemical rehealing abilities come at a terrible price - temporary but devastating insanity. All who use the Pits succumb to this madness, except the Joker. After using a Lazarus Pit, the Joker was temporarily brought into sanity, and expressed remorse for his many crimes.
kyle
kyle - 7/29/2010, 11:16 PM
no one will wanna touch batman after nolan
kyle
kyle - 7/29/2010, 11:21 PM
except zack snyder, but he's doing dark knight returns adaptation.
tset22
tset22 - 7/29/2010, 11:26 PM
it is a tough act to follow and @promorus are you insane? okay lets forget that ras al gouhl died in the first movie and there has been no mention of the pit in any of the movies and lets forget nolan is against super natural story lines and lets even forget that thalia would have to take two face to the pit, the fact is that story makes no sense, who takes him to the pit? why would they take him there? it doesn't fit in the story at all dude
ButtNakedSmurf
ButtNakedSmurf - 7/30/2010, 4:35 AM
@plot master-promorus' idea makes more sense than your "he never really died(even thought he did)" idea
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