BLACK PANTHER Director Ryan Coogler Breaks Down [SPOILER]'s MCU Debut; [SPOILER]'s Return Was Once Planned

BLACK PANTHER Director Ryan Coogler Breaks Down [SPOILER]'s MCU Debut; [SPOILER]'s Return Was Once Planned

Black Panther director and Ironheart executive producer Ryan Coogler has broken down that big introduction in the show's finale, while another producer reveals plans for a major return were scrapped...

By JoshWilding - Jul 02, 2025 04:07 PM EST
Filed Under: Ironheart
Source: Variety

The second half of Ironheart leads viewers to believe that Dormammu is pulling The Hood's strings, something that seems obvious when you look at Parker Robbins' history on the page. 

When Riri Williams puts it to Sacha Baron Cohen's mysterious villain that he's the Doctor Strange villain, he scoffs at the idea and reveals his true name: Mephisto. It's a huge moment, and Ironheart executive producer Ryan Coogler broke it down in an interview with Variety

"It’s funny, when I first met Jon Watts in 2016 and he was doing 'Spider-Man: Homecoming,' Spider-Man was like basement level, like fighting underneath the street-level villains," he said of bringing the devil into Riri's story. "Then, by the time 'No Way Home' comes around, he’s dealing with Doctor Strange and going through different realities and shit."

"I just absolutely love that we’re not meeting him in 'WandaVision' or 'Agatha [All Along]," Coogler continued. "You’re meeting him through this stressed-out, young Black genius. When you watch the show, it’s like, 'Oh, that was how you always were gonna meet him.' It wasn’t gonna be in 'Loki.' That’s the trickster; that’s how he works. That’s where he’s gonna be: in a pizza shop in Chicago, like, where you would absolutely never expect him."

Ironheart director Angela Barnes is credited with suggesting Cohen play Mephisto, and executive producer Zoie Nagelhout revealed that Marvel Studios went to great lengths to keep the actor's casting under wraps (which, as we're sure you'll recall, didn't work). 

"If he was outside, we wrapped him up in tarps and the poor guy had to walk like two steps at a time," she recalled. "Nobody but crew or friends of crew were allowed, so we would cast extras who were family members and beg everyone to keep it a secret. You do your best."

Nagelhout later confirmed that the "initial idea" called for Dormammu to be Ironheart's secret big bad. "If you look to publishing, Parker’s power is drawn back to Dormammu, who is also a very epic character in the MCU and who would have been very exciting to play with. But as we developed it, we realized Mephisto was a better thematic fit for what the show is about.”

"Diving into these scenes of ambition and cost and what you’re willing to give up for the things you want, he offered a sort of interesting and heightened way to tie together the characters’ journeys — and in particular, Riri’s — so it became almost like a no-brainer to have him," she added.

Back to Coogler, and he was asked whether the next stage of Ironheart and Mephisto's respective stories might play out in Black Panther 3 or a potential second season.

"I don’t know jack shit," he said with a laugh. "I’m here for whatever Chinaka’s got coming at us next; whatever Kevin’s got coming at us next, you know what I’m saying. I think the audience is going to take to that ending and I can’t wait to see those characters again."

It's always a shame to get a cliffhanger ending without any clear idea of when or where it will be resolved. That's been a recurring theme throughout the Multiverse Saga, with many characters and subplots introduced in post-credits scenes that have yet to pan out.

Jake Lockley, Hercules, Blade, and more have all shown up, only to be left on the shelf, and the hope now is that Mephisto won't eventually be added to the list. 

All episodes of Ironheart are now streaming on Disney+.

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MyCoolYoung
MyCoolYoung - 7/2/2025, 4:15 PM
We won’t see that thread picked up for a while but I’m curious to see where it goes. I hate that she made that deal
TheVisionary25
TheVisionary25 - 7/2/2025, 4:22 PM
@MyCoolYoung - I hate it too but it’s intentional..

Given her most recent loss was her Natalie A.I , it makes sense that Mephisto would exploit that
SonOfAGif
SonOfAGif - 7/2/2025, 4:27 PM
@MyCoolYoung - I kind of wish the deal she made was to get back her Stepdad for her mother instead to kind of redeem her selfish and manipulative ways of being. But at the cost of her soul.
karlel
karlel - 7/2/2025, 5:05 PM
@MyCoolYoung - Not picking a fight CoolYoung! I enjoyed our back and forth. But I'm curious, are you really surprised that she made that choice?
MyCoolYoung
MyCoolYoung - 7/2/2025, 8:02 PM
@karlel – I love the discourse, regardless of whether we agree or not. I hope I didn’t come off as hostile or irritated in our earlier discussion. I didn’t respond because I believe I got busy right after clicking on your last comment, and I hate going back to something after a day. Feel free to reply to me anytime 🤝🏿

That said — yes, I genuinely was. I didn’t think Marvel had the balls to essentially make one of their heroes an agent of Mephisto. It’s one thing to have Hawkeye be under mind control; it’s a whole other thing to have someone make a deal with the literal devil of their own volition.
MyCoolYoung
MyCoolYoung - 7/2/2025, 8:04 PM
@SonOfAGif - I think it should’ve been the stepdad. At its core, the story is about fathers. 3 characters fathers were missing from their lives which influenced their decision making process. Hood made a deal with the devil to get at his father, would’ve been only right for RiRi to make one to get hers back
MyCoolYoung
MyCoolYoung - 7/2/2025, 8:06 PM
@TheVisionary25 – Mephisto 100% exploits those vulnerabilities, and they did it well in the show, so well that you don’t necessarily hate him more than the choices the characters make toward him.

I replied above to sonofgif about fathers. I just kind of wish it had been her father and not Natalie. Let her try to rebuild her Glitch.
SonOfAGif
SonOfAGif - 7/2/2025, 9:25 PM
@MyCoolYoung - I know it's such a divisive subject and people call it "woke" but I would love it if Mephisto preys on different cultures and diversities to exploit them. Such as making deals with minorities seeking a better life or underprivileged youth seeking fame and fortune and how Johnny Blaze is the only deal that fell through for him.
MyCoolYoung
MyCoolYoung - 7/3/2025, 1:22 AM
@SonOfAGif – That would make the anti-wokers so mad 😂 but thematically, I really like that. Judging by a lot of the comments, people don’t really understand that those with fewer resources are more vulnerable to making “bad” decisions. It’s easy to sell drugs when you don’t have any money, for example.
SonOfAGif
SonOfAGif - 7/3/2025, 1:31 AM
@MyCoolYoung - Yes and it would show how sadistic and predatory Mephisto really is. I loved how Mephisto had a different outfit based on how he wanted to manipulate his target. When he first met Parker he dressed in a luxury looking three piece suit to make him believe he was wealthy. When he returned to Parker he dressed in a run down suit similar to how run down Parker looked. And then when he went to manipulate RiRi he dressed like a Silicon Valley Tech Bro.
SonOfAGif
SonOfAGif - 7/3/2025, 1:32 AM
@MyCoolYoung - I would also like to see Mephisto using RiRi specifically for her tech and knowledge in the hopes she can build a weapon that can kill Zarathos for him.
dagenspear
dagenspear - 7/4/2025, 9:23 AM
@SonOfAGif - I don't see why he'd need that.
MyCoolYoung
MyCoolYoung - 7/7/2025, 6:53 PM
@SonOfAGif - wow. Now I didn't notice that at all. I'm going to rewatch the finale and look at that. It's the details that get you ever time.
SonOfAGif
SonOfAGif - 7/8/2025, 1:47 AM
@MyCoolYoung - RiRi wore various Air Jordan 1s during the series. When Mephisto presents himself to her, he is also wearing AJ1s.
MyCoolYoung
MyCoolYoung - 7/8/2025, 10:34 AM
@SonOfAGif- What, lol. Mephisto swagged out and suave. It's truly those little things that make me believe they'll do right by him
SonOfAGif
SonOfAGif - 7/8/2025, 11:31 AM
@MyCoolYoung - Rewatch it. I picked up on all those cues because I could only focus on him. The theme of the series was manipulation and selfish decisions. And I wanted to see how Mephisto was manipulating these vulnerable young adults. I also picked up on how his pocket dimension was the Pizza place and that became Parker's HQ.
URCOMMENTSUCKS
URCOMMENTSUCKS - 7/2/2025, 4:17 PM
This show was stunning, brave, but most importantly, it was ICONIC.

ICONIC!!
ProfessorWhy
ProfessorWhy - 7/2/2025, 5:14 PM
@URCOMMENTSUCKS - your tired shtick must be boring even you by now
URCOMMENTSUCKS
URCOMMENTSUCKS - 7/2/2025, 5:18 PM
@ProfessorWhy - I don't know what you're talking about, goofer. I'm being sincere.
Gizmoduck
Gizmoduck - 7/2/2025, 5:34 PM
@URCOMMENTSUCKS - rofl at 'he’s dealing with Doctor Strange and going through different realities and shit'

This show was a disappointment, but not awful - just such a bad ending.
ProfessorWhy
ProfessorWhy - 7/2/2025, 5:58 PM
@URCOMMENTSUCKS - oh, you're boring as hell then
Rpendo
Rpendo - 7/2/2025, 5:59 PM
@URCOMMENTSUCKS - that makes it worse.
Malatrova15
Malatrova15 - 7/2/2025, 6:47 PM
@URCOMMENTSUCKS - ITS ICONIC how coogler tries to sound More inteligent than he Is when he said ITS was important to meet Mephisto here in Chicago helping a Black perdón being a criminal rather than in Agatha's...the guy Is clueless.
Kurban
Kurban - 7/2/2025, 4:18 PM
This show was about a bad person becoming a worse person, which is weird because I thought Riri was supposed to be a superhero
MisterBones
MisterBones - 7/2/2025, 4:20 PM
@Kurban - Tony Stark was also a BAD PERSON and a SUPERHERO
URCOMMENTSUCKS
URCOMMENTSUCKS - 7/2/2025, 4:21 PM
@Kurban - DON'T YOU DARE TO SPEAK IN ILL-FAITH AGAINST THE MOST STUNNING, BRAVE AND ICONIC SUPERHEROINE TO GRACE THE SILVER SCREEN, YOU BIGOT!

User Comment Image
URCOMMENTSUCKS
URCOMMENTSUCKS - 7/2/2025, 4:22 PM
@MisterBones - Tony Stark was a lowlife, misogynistic prick who hated minorities. Facts.
Clintthahamster
Clintthahamster - 7/2/2025, 4:37 PM
@MisterBones - Tony Stark, Scott Lange, Thor, Loki, Hawkeye, Black Widow, etc, etc.
McMurdo
McMurdo - 7/2/2025, 4:41 PM
@MisterBones - Tony Stark also was a good character.
karlel
karlel - 7/2/2025, 5:04 PM
@MisterBones - Tony started bad and ended good. Riri started good in BP2, got worse in her own show, and finished her own show as a selfish asshole. And the crazy thing is, you people are applauding this show when they show her to be as smart as the smartest people in this universe but the only way she can figure out how to make money is to be a thug. It's insulting.
MrDandy
MrDandy - 7/2/2025, 5:10 PM
@MisterBones - Tony Stark (and the other characters mentioned) are constantly TRYING to change for the better. It makes us root for them, even when they fail. Within the first 20 minutes of Iron Man, Stark has his commupance. He is captured by people using his weapons, tortured and forced to make more weapons for them- changing his outlook on his past actions and the rest of the film is about him trying to do better.

Same case for Thor, Ant-Man, and most of the others.

Riri had a full 6 hour series where she learned nothing, doubled down on her negative behavior, and then ended with her still selfishly making a deal with the devil.
SonOfAGif
SonOfAGif - 7/2/2025, 9:28 PM
@karlel - RiRi wasn't even a hero in Wakanda Forever. She made a device for the United States to track Vibranium. She was using MIT and it's resources to build her suit for herself. Her show actually made her likeable because she wanted to build suits for First Responders. But she was using crime as a way to launder money to her project and vision. The entire message of her show was a person with a good heart doing bad things to attain the goal. Every character was directly impacted by her selfish journey.
dagenspear
dagenspear - 7/2/2025, 11:17 PM
@Clintthahamster - Scott Lang? Huh? The guy who robbed a company that was ripping off it's customers? When did he start off a bad person? When did Hawkeye start off a bad person? Though also the person's post talked about them going from being a bad person to a worse person, not just starting off as a bad person.

@MisterBones - With the exception of when Whedon write him, when Tony Stark is sucking after he becomes Iron Man, he gets personally punished visibly, physically.
Clintthahamster
Clintthahamster - 7/3/2025, 7:21 AM
@dagenspear - Riri is also stealing from companies that are ripping people off. Clint went on a murderous rampage as Ronin.

And I don't agree that she went from bad to worse. A soon as she realized that The Hood's intentions weren't good, she started working against his plans and, through revealing that he had been involved in Rampage's death, she also turned his entire team against him.
MisterBones
MisterBones - 7/3/2025, 8:41 AM
@MrDandy - I agree Riri really makes some morally questionable decisions, as well choices that are selfish too. But Tony whilst trying to do better, still made some morally questionable and selfish decisions, particularly in civil war.

I also think Marvel in particular leans into heroes and super heroes who are not all “good” or good in the traditional sense

Often times Marvel heroes are morally in the Gray. And what they have good intentions and at their core good heart they’re messy, selfish, morally complex, etc..
MisterBones
MisterBones - 7/3/2025, 8:48 AM
@karlel - insulting as a strong word. And I’m not one who’s trying to dive deep into the messy dialogue around this show that I think often gets a little too personal at times, but I will say is morally ambiguous, messy, and complex characters are often just a little more interesting sometimes. Not everyone has to be good in the pure sense, especially marvel characters and superheroes. I feel like Marvel definitely leans into superheroes who are morally grey, have dysfunctional personal lives and make rash decision decisions. The avengers are full of characters who have been all over the place in terms of their ethics, their morals, their decision-making. And yes, a lot of them try to do good and they all have good intentions but they have a fair share of baggage and have been known to make wild turns.

Furthermore, Riri is exploring the concept of Tony and genius in a different way.

“I need cash. Money. Do you think Tony Stark would be Tony Stark if he wasn't a billionaire? No shade. That's just the way the world works. And the AI for my prototype already costs millions of dollars, which, clearly, I don't have."

She's not criticising Tony. She's pointing out that any genius requires funding. Like they say, money makes the world go round. Tony never had a money problem because he was born wealthy, allowing his genius to flourish into incredible things.

If intelligent ppl were able to focus solely on their passions, they’d be more productive in their chosen field. But not everyone has that luxury. Personally, I wouldn’t choose to become a criminal like Riri but I think her arc is a twisted mirror of what happens when you’re genius isn’t naturally funded in a way like Tony’s is. Do I think the show is great or perfect by any means absolutely not but I do think it’s trying to explore some interesting elements. There is effort there.
dagenspear
dagenspear - 7/3/2025, 11:42 AM
@Clintthahamster - Clint didn't start out that way, as far as we've seen. I'm debating the idea of Scott being a bad person like that, not comparing or contrasting to Riri in that comment. But also, Scott returned the funds to the people they'd stolen them from, according to the movie. However, I think that movie's dumb, because it treats him like he was burglar, when the backstory they give him has nothing to do with that type of thing.
dagenspear
dagenspear - 7/3/2025, 11:44 AM
@MisterBones - Yes, but he gets aggressively punished, when Whedon doesn't write him, then he gets off basically scot free I think. Whedon...
Clintthahamster
Clintthahamster - 7/3/2025, 12:12 PM
@dagenspear - I'm not particularly interested in debating the point. All the people I listed did terrible things and all were at least partially redeemed over time. I don't see any reason to think that things will be different with Riri.
dagenspear
dagenspear - 7/3/2025, 12:53 PM
@Clintthahamster - How did Scott Lang do terrible things really?
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