JOKER: FOLIE À DEUX To Lose #1 Spot This Weekend; Todd Phillips Claims Sequel Doesn't Call Out Toxic Fans

Joker: Folie à Deux's tragic box office run looks set to get even worse this weekend as Terrifier 3 looks set to steal the #1 spot. Todd Phillips, meanwhile, has denied he set out to tackle toxic fans.

By JoshWilding - Oct 09, 2024 01:10 PM EST

Filed Under: Joker

Deadline brings word that Joker: Folie à Deux looks set to lose the #1 spot at the North American box office this weekend to Terrifier 3.

Following the Joker sequel's disastrous $37.6 million opening and hauls of $1.8 million on Monday and $2.6 million on Tuesday (tickets are offered at a discounted rate that day), it's likely the second weekend will face a -70% decline.

That's around the $11.2 million mark, and with Terrifier 3 currently eyeing an $11 million debut, that makes it sound like Joker: Folie à Deux will just manage to remain on top. However, the trade believes the movie is following a similar path to The Marvels and its dip will be closer to -80%, meaning a second weekend of $8 million or less.

One of the main reasons Joker: Folie à Deux has been rejected by fans is because it feels like filmmaker Todd Phillips set out to attack fans who idolised Arthur Fleck after watching Joker.

Asked about that by IGN before the sequel's release, he denied tackling toxic fans was ever the goal with Joker: Folie à Deux.

"[One] of the things that we always thought about the first movie or one of the things I definitely said enough in defending the first movie when it needed to be defended because people said it's irresponsible, its use of violence. And I always saw it quite literally the opposite. I thought it was responsible because it was showing the actual real-world effects of violence. It wasn't glamorizing gun use in my mind. It was actually showing, 'Oh my God, this is brutal.' And I think the reality of it maybe is what turned people off, the people that were turned off."

"[It] was never about addressing toxic fandom, but it was about addressing this idea of what happens if this thing gets put upon you, like we were saying, just five minutes ago, but it's not actually what you are. And then, what happens in the worst case scenario, if you finally find love in your life or you think you do, but that person is in love with the character that you represent, not the person that you are."

Whatever the case may be, a big issue with the movie is that its message feels muddled and contradictory to what happened in Joker. Regardless of whether Phillips did want to hit back at fans or critics or truly felt this was the natural next step for Fleck, it didn't work.

In our review of the movie, we concluded by saying, "Lady Gaga shines and Joaquin Phoenix brings more of the same to Joker: Folie à Deux, a wholly unnecessary sequel with no new ideas and nothing to say. It doesn’t work as a movie or a musical. What a waste of $200 million."

Joker: Folie À Deux is now playing in theaters.

JOKER: FOLIE À DEUX Almost Included Footage From In-Universe TV Movie - & We Know Who Would've Played Arthur

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40 Comments

TheLobster - 10/9/2024, 1:07 PM

Hahahaha

harryba11zack - 10/9/2024, 1:07 PM

Justice and dessert

HammerLegFoot - 10/9/2024, 1:17 PM

@harryba11zack - I like how there's always a Penguin in these

FireandBlood - 10/9/2024, 1:10 PM

Haha, the studio called him and threatened his entire livelihood, so now he’s on damage control.

SATW42 - 10/9/2024, 1:32 PM

@FireandBlood - he made these comments before the movie released, but also in the same article, which for whatever reason was cherry picked, he agreed that narrative is there and then immediately tries to say it isn't. Dude doesn't know what the hell he's talking about

"IGN: I'm just thinking: the idea of, look, the fans want Joker. They can't necessarily deal with Arthur. And I'm wondering, he's got fans that show up cosplaying as him, and they're basically like, "Give us Joker, give us the Clown Prince of Crime."

Phillips: That's right.

IGN: It reminds me of the fans. Like, "Give us Batman, give us the Clown Prince," all that sort of thing.

Phillips: I guess you're right.

IGN: And you guys are pushing back like, "No, no, I'm just Arthur."

Phillips: That's right. That is in the movie. But it was never about addressing toxic fandom, but it was about addressing this idea of what happens if this thing gets put upon you, like we were saying, just five minutes ago, but it's not actually what you are. And then, what happens in the worst case scenario, if you finally find love in your life or you think you do, but that person is in love with the character that you represent, not the person that you are."

Humperdink - 10/9/2024, 1:55 PM

@SATW42 -

The movie should have just been call "Arthur" or something else from the start, then.

You can't use an iconic DC character, dress him up like that character, title the film after then say actually it's not about that character then play semantics as the second film burns.

It seems disingenuous and manipulative. Using comic fandom as a superficial shell.

SATW42 - 10/9/2024, 2:05 PM

@Humperdink - I honestly don't mind that its considered this take on the Joker that's ultimately about the birth of the idea of the Joker as opposed to actually being the Joker.

Phillips just did it sloppily

HammerLegFoot - 10/9/2024, 1:15 PM

Aaron Pierce is official our John Stewart!

FireandBlood - 10/9/2024, 1:18 PM

@HammerLegFoot - The right choice 👏

HammerLegFoot - 10/9/2024, 1:19 PM

@HammerLegFoot - Aaron Pierre you dummy!

HammerLegFoot - 10/9/2024, 1:19 PM

@FireandBlood - Hell freak yea, bro's got the look and sound. Cant wait to see his evolution from rookie to vet!

harryba11zack - 10/9/2024, 1:24 PM

@HammerLegFoot - .....Aaron Pierce?

I beieve u

MCUKnight11 - 10/9/2024, 1:19 PM

Why do these companies hire people who don't even like the material they are adapting? I thought the lesson was learned with Bryan singer years ago.

TheVisionary25 - 10/9/2024, 1:46 PM

@MCUKnight11 - in this case…

Phillips himself has admitted pretty much that he wanted to make a Taxi Driver/King of Comedy-esque film with the first one but it wouldn’t sell to a mass audience in this day & age if it wasn’t an established IP hence him deciding to use the DC & Joker brand name so that isn’t news.

Ultimately Phillips with the first one got to more or less make the movie he wanted to make while WB/DC thought it was an easy way to make money

DrReedRichards - 10/9/2024, 1:19 PM

"[It] was never about addressing toxic fandom, but [...]"

Any and all respect he may have earned, boom. Crumbled, ruins, shambles.

Ashes to asses.
Dust to f#ck.
Thought you an artist
Turns out you're a cuck.

SATW42 - 10/9/2024, 1:34 PM

@DrReedRichards - read the whole article. Or what I said to fire and blood above. The reporter walks him into that it's exactly what the movie is tackling and he essentially says "I guess, but..."

Not disagreeing with you, just saying he's seemingly saying in this article that the commentary people are reading is there, he just didn't do it on purpose, apparently.

It's crazy.

EgoEgor - 10/9/2024, 1:34 PM

@DrReedRichards - I don't think he was ever writing about "toxic fans", he's writing about people who are fans of something that is toxic.

I don't like defending this movie a lot because it's poorly executed. This film is basically the first in thematic reverse. First was about a man in a cold world who wanted to feel any warmth, to get attention. This one is about the man whose felt that warm and attention but still feels the world is cold by the end.

DrReedRichards - 10/9/2024, 1:39 PM

@SATW42 -

I agree with that last assessment of yours, that he presents it as somehow accidental, or involuntary of you will, but that still comes across as a form of half-assed backtracking, as if he's afraid or at the very least reluctant to own up to this message.

DrReedRichards - 10/9/2024, 1:44 PM

@EgoEgor -

That thematic interpretation, while not wrong, is putting it very politely. Too politely perhaps. Certainly more politely than the aforementioned target audience warrants.

My own interpretation remains that of blatant audience disowning. Not only in regards to the first movie's self proclaimed anarchists but Al's (and I'm not seeing tho discussed nearly enough) the depiction of my Harley Quinn herself but rather a Quinn-wannabe who is actually way more privileged than her forced and fake lunacy would ever allow her to admit.

Hell, this site alone has suffered one particular user who fits this deliberate caricature, I'm legit shocked noone else has made he connection between Lee and Ruthless, or whatever her latest username is.

SATW42 - 10/9/2024, 1:46 PM

@DrReedRichards - I don't know, I think he's just kind of an idiot who makes movies based on style over substance and then accidentally makes shit and isn't responsible enough to tackle the things he wants to tackle.

I've been saying this since "The Joker" when the movie went from gritty character piece to "heeeere' joker!" and he uses a god damned gary glitter song. He has ZERO cultural awareness and therefore is an irresponsible film maker when it comes to serious topics.

RolandD - 10/9/2024, 2:08 PM

@DrReedRichards - Ruthless. Now that’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time. Is she still around?

DrReedRichards - 10/9/2024, 2:15 PM

@RolandD -

I'm assuming so, though I've no idea if she still goes by @Quinn, which I remember to be her latest moniker.

TCronson - 10/9/2024, 2:53 PM

@SATW42 - there's no way to make a "responsible" Joker movie people would enjoy. He just made one and they absolutely hated it. He's obviously lying when he pretends the movie is not massive middle finger to toxic fandoms. But there's no way to make a Joker movie that won't be misread the wrong way because it's what the character is or any other movie about serial killer with dangerous ideology as the protagonist.

EgoEgor - 10/9/2024, 1:28 PM

I guess I'm in a minority who doesn't think this movie was calling out fans of the first film. The character is idolized for or against a cause he doesn't have, agree with or want.

I think we're so used to meta commentary in films today that we put it in even when it's not there.

ThorArms - 10/9/2024, 1:30 PM

Terrifier 3 beating it would be an absolute disaster for WB (not that it isn't a pretty big one already)

ObserverIO - 10/9/2024, 1:32 PM

It had the whole weekend to itself, got the number one spot and still couldn't perform. That's what I call a flop.

TheNewYorker - 10/9/2024, 1:33 PM

I hope Todd never works in this town again! LOL

SATW42 - 10/9/2024, 1:38 PM

In the same article Phoenix also admits that it is of course there, it just wasn't the intent.

"Phoenix: I don't know about that. I really think there's probably several themes. I think each person can derive a different kind of meaning from them, and I think that's the value of it. I don't like it when people, the filmmakers, or the actors really primarily, are like, "This is the point we're trying to make. Pay attention. We're talking about you." That's not how I approached it, but I certainly think that's part of it. I don't know how you examine celebrity without thinking about that."

It just reinforces what I was always concerned with the first one, Phillips was more worried about "cool" than about the fact that he was turning a killer into icon and then trying to say "no I wasn't" He doesn't have the capacity to realize how his work can be perceived.

Phoenix is just as delusional, but at least isn't ignorant (or purposefully trying to gaslight) and tells you that reading is actually there

TheVisionary25 - 10/9/2024, 1:53 PM

@SATW42 - I personally do think the violence in the first one wasn’t glorified when it happened but meant to be shocking and disturbing

However , it can also get a bit muddy when you also have your lead being presented like this…

I can see how a certain section might think that’s cool.

SATW42 - 10/9/2024, 2:02 PM

@TheVisionary25 - "I personally do think the violence in the first one wasn’t glorified when it happened but meant to be shocking and disturbing"

His entire final speech on the Arthur Murray show is an anti-establishment message that literally ends with the idea that Murray and the city were getting what they deserved with the riots and being murdered.

At no point during his interview, even with Murray's interjections, does it seem like Phillips thinks Arthur is wrong.

TheVisionary25 - 10/9/2024, 2:11 PM

@SATW42 - that’s true

As I said , it’s a muddle film thematically

SATW42 - 10/9/2024, 1:49 PM

I admittedly skipped to the Toxic fan part of the article and didn't read what it might lose to this weekend.

Losing to Terrifier 3 would be the funniest [frick]ing thing to happen to this movie.

A shitty low budget schlock film about...a murderous clown of all things.

TheVisionary25 - 10/9/2024, 2:00 PM

@SATW42 - I was gonna say the same thing…

Losing to a movie about a killer clown is irony at its finest , guess audiences want that one as opposed to this one ( or atleast a more murderous one then the one in Folie a Deux)

Also to be fair , the last 2 Terrifier films have been well received.

ObserverIO - 10/9/2024, 2:52 PM

@SATW42 - Oh snap! And one that actually has the face of the Joker from the comics and cartoons.

Looks like the real real Joker is coming to reclaim his crown.

AllsGood - 10/9/2024, 2:15 PM

Terrifier 3 as 88% Fresh Tomatoes Score. While the Joker: Folie à Deux has 33% Rotten Tomatoes Score.

Audiences Reaction

LSHF - 10/9/2024, 2:20 PM

I agree with the overall arc of the main character, but I don't agree the name, "Joker" should have been given to the film, as expectations were created due to this that were not met, leading to major disappointments.

Again, I like the story and that the guy took responsibility for his actions. But seriously, he should have seen this coming. People were wanting the "Joker", not someone who decided to do the right thing.

LSHF - 10/9/2024, 2:22 PM

@LSHF - He might as well call his next film Captain America and have him go psycho and kill a bunch of people.

r1g0r - 10/9/2024, 2:23 PM

wait, this was #1 ?!?

everything i ever heard compared it to #2...

TheVisionary25 - 10/9/2024, 2:49 PM

Honestly , I can understand if Phillips perhaps consciously didn’t go after the toxic fans but that it was moreso perhaps in the back of his and his co-writers mind hence the parallels & commentary in the film itself to the real life reception to the film.

Anyway , I think it was an interesting concept but probably just doesn’t work for the character of the Joker unfortunately given the fan expectations put upon him.

HistoryofMatt - 10/9/2024, 2:51 PM

"Toxic fans."

I.e. anyone who liked the first movie.

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JOKER: FOLIE À DEUX To Lose #1 Spot This Weekend; Todd Phillips Claims Sequel Doesn't Call Out Toxic Fans

Joker: Folie à Deux's tragic box office run looks set to get even worse this weekend as Terrifier 3 looks set to steal the #1 spot. Todd Phillips, meanwhile, has denied he set out to tackle toxic fans.

JOKER: FOLIE À DEUX Almost Included Footage From In-Universe TV Movie - & We Know Who Would've Played Arthur

THE DARK KNIGHT Director Christopher Nolan Vetoed JOKER's Original Ending But Was Ignored For FOLIE À DEUX