Are We Being Hypocritical?

Are We Being Hypocritical?

I'm not going to make any friends with this article but I feel it needs to be written.

Editorial Opinion
By LMFAO - Sep 03, 2010 03:09 PM EST
Filed Under: The Dark Knight Rises
Source: Comicbookmovie.com

In 2008 a movie named “The Dark Knight” hit theaters, ever since fans everywhere have been trying to figure out and piece together what Mr. Nolan is thinking about putting in his upcoming, highly anticipated Batman 3. Here is where the problem I have starts. I'm all for creativity and uniqueness, but some of these wild assumptions have made me question the validity of some fans’ logic.

I know that Nolan could probably do whatever he wants with this next movie. Most people would think it’s the best thing since sliced bread. I love all of his movies just like everyone else. He could kill Batman (many people have suggested it), he could make Selina Kyle never be Catwoman, he could introduce Nightwing and completely ignore Robin, and last but not least, he could make the biggest wimp of a villain, the Riddler, into a hardcore, psychopathic, Jigsaw mixed with the Zodiac style mass murder, who by chance might leave small riddles at crime scenes (but that’s not really that important, now is it?).

I love how so many people have suggested to change the classic core of this epic story spanning over decades, and completely be okay with changing so much just because they might have a funny costume and dumb jokes (Robin) or isn’t physically imposing at all (Riddler) or hell just go ahead and kill the main character (who cares about him he’s only one of the most legendary comic book heroes to date). When the X-Men’s classic costumes and line up were changed, we all through a fit. When Spider-Man was gifted with the ability to shoot webs out of his wrists instead of using a home-made web shooter, we wanted to burn Raimi on the stake. And most recently it was announced that Thor, the thunder god, would no longer be a god but an alien, we all almost s#!t a brick. It seems many of us are just peachy with their changing so much about a hero that most of us claim to be our favorite.

This bothers me every time I read a "I think the Riddler should be" or a "God I hate Robin so much so let’s skip over him and get Nightwing (aka cooler, grown up Robin). I’m not really sure why it’s okay to change so much about one character's story and supporting characters, but it’s not okay to change things about others. Now correct me if I am completely wrong here: I don’t think the Riddler has ever killed someone in the comics. Like I said I could be wrong-- I'm almost positive he hasn’t. My understanding of the character is that he steals things, makes complex riddles to outsmart Batman, and gets caught every single time. Now as fun as that would be to sit through for three hours, I don’t think that is the EPIC ending most of us want to such a great trilogy.

Now's the part in this article that I say who I think should be in the next movie, right? Wrong. Honestly, I have no idea who should be in it, no one does. My guess is that no one will for another few months or longer.

I know many people will hate me for this and most people will call me wrong for writing this article but this issue has bothered me for too long to stay quiet any longer.

THE DARK KNIGHT RISES Star Tom Hardy On Whether He'd Return As Bane For Upcoming Deathstroke Team-Up Movie
Related:

THE DARK KNIGHT RISES Star Tom Hardy On Whether He'd Return As Bane For Upcoming Deathstroke Team-Up Movie

THE DARK KNIGHT RISES Star Joseph Gordon-Levitt Reveals Whether There Was Ever Plans For A ROBIN Spin-Off
Recommended For You:

THE DARK KNIGHT RISES Star Joseph Gordon-Levitt Reveals Whether There Was Ever Plans For A ROBIN Spin-Off

DISCLAIMER: As a user generated site and platform, ComicBookMovie.com is protected under the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) and "Safe Harbor" provisions.

This post was submitted by a user who has agreed to our Terms of Service and Community Guidelines. ComicBookMovie.com will disable users who knowingly commit plagiarism, piracy, trademark or copyright infringement. Please CONTACT US for expeditious removal of copyrighted/trademarked content. CLICK HERE to learn more about our copyright and trademark policies.

Note that ComicBookMovie.com, and/or the user who contributed this post, may earn commissions or revenue through clicks or purchases made through any third-party links contained within the content above.

1 2
jbak368
jbak368 - 9/3/2010, 3:15 PM
I concur, mostly.
InSpace
InSpace - 9/3/2010, 3:21 PM
HATE

lol

nah,man you make an interesting point.

Kite Man for Batman 3 !
naterator
naterator - 9/3/2010, 3:30 PM
amen!
jbak368
jbak368 - 9/3/2010, 3:30 PM
The main thing is, anyone can say what they want about it, but we shouldn't act like what we say matters or should matter, because it doesn't. We may have interesting and valid points and opinions and perspectives, but in the end we're just fans shooting the shit and not the artists (or hacks) making these films.

The argument shouldn't really be over how faithful a film is to the comic, but how good a representation of the themes of the comic is the film. Nolan gets freedom to take liberties that other filmmakers may not be given, but that's only because he's demonstrated a faithfulness and understanding to the spirit of the source material that transcends arguments over what a character's costume should look like. He may have changed The Joker's origin, but it's still clearly The Joker onscreen. In fact, in spite of (or even because of) his changes, Nolan often creates representations of already-iconic characters that still feel definitive.

Frankly, when a comic film struggles to achieve comic-book faithfulness (Sin City, Watchmen) over all else, I usually end up feeling emotionally disconnected from the movie. I feel like both of those movies would have been better served by a realistic style, and that their impacts were lessened by the stylized hyper-faithful approach employed. I understand that I'm in the minority about this, especially about these two films.
naterator
naterator - 9/3/2010, 3:33 PM
i think that croc could be cool.... im sure that NOLAN could find an interesting way to have an inmate having been genetically tested on to become the croc.... that would be a good finally....riddler...i agree ...not so much....he could be a second villain helping another.... he cant be the only villain in tha last movie.... lamo
InTylerWeTrust
InTylerWeTrust - 9/3/2010, 3:36 PM
It always comes down to this: haters gon' hate. They'll always find something to get pissed about. It's the name of the game, I guess.
AshleyWilliams
AshleyWilliams - 9/3/2010, 3:41 PM
I agree man!

Tyler....
bleedthefreak
bleedthefreak - 9/3/2010, 3:44 PM
Thank, you this is the message i have been trying to get out. I found the TDK to be hands down the very worst adaption of a comic I have seen. People bitch about Bryan Singer and Bret Ratner`s lack of respect to the source, and i feel no one is guiltier than Nolan. And i know i am gonna be bitched out by nolan fans but this is MY OPINION so before you even try there is really no point in arguing
jbak368
jbak368 - 9/3/2010, 3:57 PM
I understand the complaints about Nolan that people have, and they mostly have to do with his style as a director, and they're all valid, it's just that none of them bother me. He does too many other things too well, things that are more important to the film achieving what I, for one, want it to achieve.

I would also say that Bale's performance is great, but he has some of the worst lines, and his Batman voice only makes them stand out more ("You're stand... against organized crime... is the first... legitimate... ray of hope... in Gotham... in decadesssssss."), but as the great Kevin Conroy said, it isn't all Bale's fault. How well do you think he can hear himself in that mask? There's probably about 20 other people standing around at all times also working on the movie who could've told him it sounded a little ridiculous.
jbak368
jbak368 - 9/3/2010, 4:00 PM
Hell, they let him to the same voice for Terminator Salvation!
jbak368
jbak368 - 9/3/2010, 4:04 PM
Um, I would say that every Batman movie except Batman Begins and Mask of the Phantasm have focused more on the character development of the villains, but TDK doesn't, because The Joker doesn't have a character arc, and Bruce Wayne does. It may be more accurately called The Tragedy of Harvey Dent, but he's not really the villain either, he's still technically a protagonist. The plot holes and everything are there, but like I said I think it has to do with Nolan's style of filmmaking. All of his films have these sort of flaws that might seem major in a different movie but that are completely overpowered by all the shit he does right. Inception highlights this more than anything else, because as a metaphor for filmmaking it reveals loads about how Nolan views films.
jbak368
jbak368 - 9/3/2010, 4:06 PM
I would also completely disagree about the acting. Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman are always great, Aaron Eckhart makes you wish Harvey Dent didn't have to become Two-Face even though you went in waiting to see him most of all, and Gary Oldman just flat out IS Jim Gordon.
TayDee
TayDee - 9/3/2010, 4:14 PM
I completely agree with you except on the Riddler bashing, I think he's a great villian and will be even better on film
TayDee
TayDee - 9/3/2010, 4:29 PM
And the batman movies take ideas from a few different arcs so technically they do stay faithful to the source material, just not 100%
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 9/3/2010, 4:35 PM
Cool article dude!

Yeah BATMAN's bigger than NOLAN, bigger than anyone and will be with us forever, just like SUPERMAN etc!

NOLAN's just a small part of a big picture at the WB lot!

Cant wait to see who picks up the next trilogy!

Hopefully we wont get CATWOMAN in the last one, hell BLACK MASK & DEADSHOT would be cooler!

RIDDLER seems to be in it, I'd rather him a small part and in the background, but oh well lol.

Anyways gr8 article!

P.S. BATMAN has come out since 1938, MARVEL don't have that, so BATS has gone through many incarnations in the comics, CRISIS etc just a few!
marvelguy
marvelguy - 9/3/2010, 4:36 PM
You weren't clear. How are we being hypocritical?
Angelus
Angelus - 9/3/2010, 4:36 PM
You have some interesting points!

BMP!
ecksmanfan
ecksmanfan - 9/3/2010, 5:25 PM
Interesting stuff. Here's the difference between Christopher Nolan's The Dark Knight and Brett Ratner's The Last Stand: Although both deviated from the source material greatly, The Dark Knight is a great film with great performances (not just Ledger, but Oldman, Eckart, Freeman, Bale to an extent) while the Last Stand was a terribly written and poorly acted film.

I am in the camp of "it's ok to deviate from the source material as long as we are given a good film." Look at past CBM's: Spiderman 2, X-Men 2, V for Vendetta, Watchmen...all of these are among fan's favorite comic book movies. Did they all follow source material? Yeah, actually, some did. However...look at Daredevil (theatrical cut), Elektra, Fantastic 4, Ghost Rider...all terrible films.

I guess it all comes dow to what TYLER said...haters gon' hate no matter what they throw at them.

Oh...and did I miss the memo about Thor being an alien?
OdinsBeard
OdinsBeard - 9/3/2010, 5:48 PM
ecksmanfan@ it's kind of a read between the lines sort of thing on Thor. im not sure if they going to address him being "the Norse god of thunder" - it's looking like they'll just be categorized as cosmic beings from the city of Asgard. no biggie. 'sall good!

Marvelguy@ his point is that a lot of fans bitch and moan about source material and this and that yet when it comes to what most consider the best CBM (TDK) and it's surronding movies we seem to be ok with major changes. even coming up with our own to fit into the "nolanverse" (god i hate that term i can't believe i just used it)- It's like no one thinks twice about any of the batman suits that have been worn on screen. hell, the most faithful one was the Adam West tv series suit, and i don't think anyone wants that back! Yet when the Thor pic was released you couldn't escape people bitching about it even tho it was closer to the comics version of Thor than Batman's to his comic.

I think The Riddler would make a great villain! you just have to make him cerebral - and that is what Nolan is best at! There's plenty more physical threats Batman will face throughout the film. i never considered most of his enemies physical threats anyway. Joker, Two-Face, Riddler, Penguin... Batman would waste all of them hand-to-hand.
bleedthefreak
bleedthefreak - 9/3/2010, 5:58 PM
@ecksmanfan thats true about last stand i certainly wouldnt say last stand is on the same level as TDK
ecksmanfan
ecksmanfan - 9/3/2010, 6:55 PM
@OdinsBeard- Got it. That threw me for a loop!

@brazilianbatman- I think the idea of killing the bats cam from this being Nolan's last film on the project. It's their way of re-booting the franchise (again) so it would fit in more with the planned Justice League film(s). But I think they forget that with Nolan now producing the new Superman film...that idea is basically void. I hate the idea of killing Batman off. Really, really dumb idea.

Although I'm not a fan of the Riddler character and I'd rather see someone else (please, please bring Grundy into play. Some way, some how?), Nolan could probably make Nigma a really cool character.
jbak368
jbak368 - 9/3/2010, 7:19 PM
I said this before, but it won't (and shouldn't) be villains like Black Mask or Deadshot, because they aren't iconic enough or important enough to the whole of Batman's mythos. Like someone above said, Nolan's films are a mixture of many different storylines from throughout the history of Batman comics, intended to present a "real" take on the Batman legend. Therefore the characters most important to the overall mythos (and also most well known to the general public) are the villains that should be used. I don't understand all the Catwoman hate around here; in my opinion it's more important to get her in then it is to get The Riddler, and she works on a number of levels that continue or elaborate on themes from the previous films.
jbak368
jbak368 - 9/3/2010, 7:45 PM
I also think The Riddler is a no-brainer, as he seems to play directly to Nolan's strengths as a filmmaker.
XxBLACKMASKxX
XxBLACKMASKxX - 9/3/2010, 8:53 PM
Here comes.....
HUSH and BLACK MASK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BIGBMH
BIGBMH - 9/3/2010, 9:54 PM
You make a good point. However, I think with this Batman, people accept things as different because it's more live Batman in our world. People like this series, view it as its own thing, and want to see the Nolan version of certain aspects of Batman. For lots of other superhero movies, people want a live action version of the superhero world, so as direct a translation as possible.
6of13
6of13 - 9/4/2010, 6:32 AM
Interesting point. These movies are adaptations and it's true that we often complain when the film strays far from the resource material, however, I think that a complete rehash of the resource material is not always ideal either. At least some freedom of creative liberty is necessary.
Protonite
Protonite - 9/4/2010, 9:58 AM
Let me sum up how I feel in one simple line - I'd rather watch Nolan's Batman than Burton's.
joekerr93
joekerr93 - 9/4/2010, 3:57 PM
this is ridiculous, all of it

there are 70 years of batman comic books, they are not all written by the same person, many, many writers and illustrators have taken their turn, chosen the characters and adapted them to fit what they thought the characters should be. But as soon as this very same thing happens on screen, everyone shits bricks. do you think bob kane and frank miller both envisioned the same damn batman? NO! and neither did nolan, he is no different from them in the respect that he took batman, chose some villains, and adapted them to fit what he thought batman could and should be.

he kept the essence of batman and all the characters very much alive, and told his own great story to add to the years of source material.

it is highly offensive to say people only went to see the dark knight for ledger, im not even going to go into it.

quote: "My understanding of the character is that he steals things, makes complex riddles to outsmart Batman, and gets caught every single time. Now as fun as that would be to sit through for three hours, I don’t think that is the EPIC ending most of us want to such a great trilogy."
every [frick]ing villain ends up getting caught by batman dipshit, that's why most movies end up killing the villains instead. and what you said is what the [frick]ing joker did in the dark knight if you even saw the damn movie.

this is nolans [frick]ing take on batman, and he has done a great job so far, did you cry to your mother when alan moore paralyzed batgirl (because...holy shit!...that never happened before in the comics)

in addition, for his take on batman, nolan chose to show us what batman would be like in the real world, so thats how he chose to adapt his characters.

if christopher nolan was telling this exact same story in a comic book, would you be bitching and moaning about this??

and ummm yeah, it kinda makes sense that people complain about movies not following their roots when they suck, but not when they are good. if you show everyone something better they will follow it, if you show them something worse, they will return to their comic books.

and with nolan's wanting to end his series instead of leaving it open for others to follow in his steps, that is called finishing your story. they dont have to reboot to keep going. did shumacher's shit films reboot? were they set in tim burton's universe? if only they hadn't been full of shit

i do apologize that this is out of order, i just wanted to get everything down before i forgot it

i think thats everything, peace out

and cheers jbak368
joekerr93
joekerr93 - 9/4/2010, 3:58 PM
oh, and when were we being hypocritical?
joekerr93
joekerr93 - 9/4/2010, 7:32 PM
there's a difference. borigins sucked, the dark knight ummm...didn't

i do agree however, that people should not be setting a double standard for the rules of cbm's.
but when you show the audience a reason why their way is better then, imo, you are excused.

also, i only used kane and miller as examples, there have been many writers and illustrators, and they all have their own ideas, and i think nolan is just another one of those

i guess if you want, you can call Nolan's movie Elseworld tales, which puts his story along with such comics as Red Son and Gotham by Gaslight

he took Batman from his natural environment and set him in reality.
no different than when Superman was taken out of Metropolis and set in Soviet Russia
joekerr93
joekerr93 - 9/4/2010, 8:39 PM
if wolverine and the dark knight both sucked and we got pissed about wolverine but not the dark knight THEN we would be hypocritical
Sideswipe84
Sideswipe84 - 9/5/2010, 12:04 AM
"it is to date the only batman movie to focus more on the villain and less about the devlopment of the main character" @soonerdrake - Batman returns was much more focused on the Penguin than TDK was focused on the Joker. The difference is Heath was so intriguing as the Joker that people focused on it too much. Heath really didn't have that much screen time compared to previous movie villains. and there is really no point to going to watch a movie that is exactly the same as the comics, what's interesting about seeing something you've read before, no surprises and no change = boring.
1 2
View Recorder