DannRamm's Thought's and Discussion on Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

DannRamm's Thought's and Discussion on Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

Here is my extremely long, SPOILER FILLED discussion my thoughts on Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice. I hope you all enjoy it, and please leave your own thoughts. (Warning: this review is very detailed, over 3000 words, so I apologize if you have a short attention span)

Review Opinion
By DannRamm113 - Mar 26, 2016 07:03 AM EST
Filed Under: Batman vs. Superman

I have been waiting for this movie since 2013.  So have many others.  And now it is here, and the response I see is so much anger and negativity towards the film, its fans, people that hate it, and everything else.  And it disgusts me.  I’ve seen the movie, here are my thoughts.  You may think I am biased because I like DC, but I went in with the most rational mind I ever could.  I was critical, I saw and weighed the positives and negatives.  I looked through comments and took those thoughts into account (The rational ones, anyone that even mentioned a rotten tomatoes score I didn’t look at.  Using a score of people that rate the film 3/5 or less and using that as an argument for why you didn’t like it is stupid as hell.)  And now, I give you my own review of Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice.
 
Heroes:
 
Batman and Superman, on screen together, for the first time, and the casting was great.  Ben Affleck put everything into his performance, and is possibly the single most praised thing about the film.  He was angry, he was justified in his anger, and he was heroic with a side of toeing the line.  Now, let’s look at the biggest argument against him: the violence.  We’ve all known that this Batman is at a point where he cannot stand life or criminals.  We knew he’d be brutal, but murder?  All I have to say is: if you don’t rank George Clooney as your all-time favorite Batman, then you have no right to judge Affleck’s Batman.  Saying Michael Keaton killed is an understatement, he straight up planted a bomb in a thugs pants in Batman Returns.  Set a man on fire with the turbine of the Batmobile.  He killed the Joker, flat out, as well as his henchmen.  Val Kilmer killed, albeit less than Keaton.  Christian Bale did kill, it was a guideline that he doesn’t, but he did break that rule, although that was only like twice.  You can look at the car chase in The Dark Knight, where Batman was shooting bullets and missiles at trucks, as well as in the final chase in the Dark Knight Rises.  The Batmobile is honestly the most violent thing Batman has, and the fact of the matter is that we don’t get confirmation of death AT ALL from that car chase in BvS.  The car he dragged around I did not see anyone in, when he threw it at the truck the top fell off, but the people in the truck were still shooting the submachine gun at him.  Later on, we do see that Batman does use his batwing to shoot out the warehouse, and may have blown up KGBeast.  However, KGBeast could have survived, although badly burnt/scarred.  I don’t know, if Crossbones could have survived the explosion and building collapse in The Winter Soldier, I don’t see how we are automatically assuming KGBeast is dead.  As for the other cars shot down with the Batwing, it was more the vehicles being shot at, not the people themselves.  Although, let’s say that Batman did achieve a high body count…the only Batman on film that has not killed is Clooney, so I find it hypocritical to say I hate this Batman, but love Keaton or Bale (Even Adam West killed a few guys).  As for the more violent attitude, it goes along with the motivation given, that he’s gotten crueler.  The comic Batman did come to this point as well, due to the death of Jason Todd.  In Hush specifically he almost killed the Joker while having those flashbacks.  And if you still believe that Batman is basically the Punisher, then I ask you this:  why does the brand exist, as a death warrant, if he doesn’t kill.  It goes along with Bale’s “I’m not going to kill you, but I don’t have to save you”.  He doesn’t kill criminals, he just doesn’t give them mercy if they’re in prison.  And, I don’t know where he used a gun other than his Knightmare of the future, where it was a last response.  If any of you can point out another spot (pulling a gun from a bad guy does not count unless he uses that gun to shoot someone, which he didn’t.  He did stab someone though).  Overall, Affleck did great in the role.  Can’t rank him against the other Batman’s yet though, I want to see him in other films and repeat viewings of BvS.
Now, let’s go to Superman.  Cavil again brings a good amount to the role, but I wish he was developed more as Clark Kent.  I always found the alter egos amazing in comic book movies, and here he was always Superman basically.  As for his Superman, he had a lot of emotional baggage.  There’s a lot happening to him, and I really felt sorry for the character.  He goes and saves a little girl from a burning building, but still gets torn apart by critics and is put on trial.  And when he obliges to the trial, lowering himself down to such a human level to accept responsibility for crimes he did not commit, it literally blows up in his face.  He wants to prove he’s a hero, but can’t do that, because there’s so much rooting against him.  It’s no wonder why he doesn’t smile that much during the film, I wouldn’t either if I was in his position!  Cavil did a great job with what he was given, and makes the ultimate sacrifice to show to everyone what the difference is between all powerful and no good, and all good but not all powerful is.  It was actually a very strong character moment.
The interactions were also well done.  In their fight, which does come pretty late, both sides show they can shine.  Batman is completely prepped and prepared, while Superman is holding his own while holding back.  Superman does try to talk to Batman about the situation, but Batman’s hatred and rage is what’s keeping the fight going.  Superman doesn’t want to fight, it’s shown when Superman stops rolling with the punches (that was my favorite part of the fight honestly, so bad ass).  And the only thing that snaps the fight out is Batman finally seeing humanity in the alien.  I know the whole “Martha” thing is getting shit from people, but put yourself in that position.  You are fighting, about to kill, but then the person says they have to save someone that happens to be named after your dead mother.  You would stop and question why they are bringing up that name as well.  The thing that holds Batman back from delivering the death blow is finally sensing humanity in the alien.  And I thought that was great to see.  Also, the fight was the PERFECT length.  When showdowns take more than 10 minutes it’s easy to get taken out of the action.  But this one kept the pace quick, and the fight was very satisfying.  Their subsequent teamwork in the final fight was also cool to see, with Superman doing a majority of the fighting while Batman is the distraction.
 
Villains:
 
Here’s what I expected from Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor:  I expected a man, who has a public persona that is very nice and eccentric, but behind closed doors is a psychopath.  I expected a conversation, where basically Jesse would straight up tell Superman “You are the end of human achievement and I envy that” (different dialogue but same concept).  And I expected him to be a genius way ahead of his time.  I got about half of that.
Jesse is memorable, and has a lot of great moments.  The mansion and skyscraper scenes are the true standouts.  And he was definitely a genius, eccentric, and a psychopath.  I just wish that he was better characterized and that his motivations were more spelled out, which is one of the big flaws with the film that I will get to.  His big scene where he explains his hatred for Superman for posing as someone that is both good and powerful is actually very moving.  And Jesse gives a great performance.  But there were times that I saw a lot of stuff that could annoy people.  The Jolley rancher’s scene is one of them.  Personally, I saw it as a scene where he shows he is able to get what he wants and is cocky as hell about it.  But, I can see people finding it stupid and awkward as well.   I will say, the Granny’s peach tea scene was pretty great.  It shows how diabolical he is.
The major problem I had is lack of explanation.  He explained why he hated superman, but his plan required a lot of planning and things to happen at a certain time, and it really wasn’t explained that well.  It was diabolical though.  And Doomsday…
He served his purpose.  He was the dragon that needed to be fought.  He was the monster of the movie.  And I liked everything, except for the fact we don’t know why he was created.  It was almost as a plan B to kill Superman if Batman couldn’t, but it’s not explained.  But, the fight was cool.  It showcased Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman’s strengths, and was a formidable enough adversary to bring them together, but not formidable enough to be the big cause for the Justice League to form to take him down.  I actually like how he was called a Kryptonian mutation, because that’s all he was.  He was a monster, just needed to be taken down, no characterization required.  It was also hilarious to me how they mention four different times that there were no civilians within the fight.  Side note: can we please never complain about civilian casualties in a comic book movie ever again.  Between this and Age of Ultron’s forced “ignore the killer robot, save the people from the falling land mass that we have barely any control of right now”, I feel like CBM’s are going to truly go into a stage where nobody is in danger and stakes are gone.  BUT, aside from the lack of explanation for his creation, there is another problem I have, which I will get to with the script.  All in all, I’m really split on the villains, but at the very least they were memorable and were formidable.
 
Supporting:

For this I’m just going to list the character and finish with a summary of the JL set up, because in reality that’s all it was.
Wonder Woman: Mysterious, definitely a standout and scene stealer.  Zack Snyder showed a great female warrior with Faora in Man of Steel and did it again with Diana Prince.  It was a small role, only ever meant to be an extended cameo, so for what was done with the limited screen time I can’t wait for Wonder Woman.
Lois Lane:  Good chemistry with Henry Cavil, I liked her as the reporter, which we saw a lot of.  Also saw her in a lot of dangerous situations, which are a result of her being a reporter like in the comics.  She really didn’t annoy me.  AND: the line “you got balls, maybe you belong in here” had me dying (watch the film to see what I mean).
Perry White: Better characterized than in Man of Steel.  Tough editor at a newspaper company that’s slowly dying, I appreciated the character.
Martha Kent: Served well as a catalyst, and well preformed.
Dawn of Justice: The Justice League setup wasn’t that bad actually.  The way it was inserted as Lex’s experiments was interesting, and the scenes were pretty cool.  The Cyborg scene was very moving, just seeing Silas work on his son.  Aquaman had my audience roaring with applause, they loved his cameo, and it was cool.  Flash I liked, the Knightmare scene was interesting, but I need to see more of him.  I like the actors in the movie, so I really can’t say much bad.  The acting was pretty good overall.

The Writing/Editing/Cinematography:

Here is where my biggest problems lie.  The movie was edited very weirdly, so it would go from one scene, into another, back to the original scene from a new angle, and back to a new thing.  It also seems that scenes were cut, which is probably for the 3 hour cut.  Which was my biggest problem.  WB/Snyder: If you are listening, please know this for Justice League: IF THE SCRIPT IS MORE THAN 150 PAGES, REWRITE IT.  Honestly, Snyder, you didn’t do a terrible job.  If you didn’t do a couple of stupid things, it would have been better ( I just read the Jimmy Olsen Article, but I’m keeping my anger in for this review).  But stop requiring an over 3 hour runtime to tell a story.  It happened with Watchmen and it happened here.  Any movie over 3 hours will get cut to almost 2 and a half.  That is half an hour of scenes that were probably used to build up the characters completely gone.  And this movie, although I was never bored, not once, could have cut out a lot of unnecessary stuff, or used that time to build up the characters.  That is the biggest flaw with the movie.  It didn’t cram everything in and become too disjointed, but it did require a lot more in terms of story.  Which brings me to the other big flaw: WB STOP USING SCRIPTS FROM THE 1990’S!
Yeah, you wanted a Batman/Superman film?  You want an adaptation of Death of Superman?  So has Warner’s.  They’ve been trying so hard to get these films off the ground since the late 90s, and this film finally does it and it shows.  I feel like if Terrio had more free range with the story it would have been a lot better, with softer character moments.  The dialogue was well written.  I know some of you find it cheesy, but with what he had to rewrite I liked it.  I really feel like character was the biggest weak point.  They really implied and hinted a lot, like at Lex’s background and Batman’s more cruel nature. But aside from a few lines, I wish there was more focus.  Superman I think was really the best written, although Batman was the better portrayed.  Look back at my Superman part, he is being criticized by everyone, his likeness being burned, of course he’s not going to be extremely happy, because he’s trying hard to make others happy.
Back to Zack Snyder.  The film was extremely well shot.  It looked beautiful, and I was never bored by the movie (I really don’t know how very few of you can say you were ever bored by the first half of the movie).  But, again, you cannot expect a studio to ever release a full 3 hour plus movie to get everything you need to through to the audience.  I cannot stress this enough for Justice League: DON’T INTEND FOR A 3 HOUR MOVIE SNYDER!  I want to watch the ultimate cut honestly, because I want to see what was added or taken away.  The editing showed scenes were missing, so I feel like the holes will be covered by that.  But don’t do this with Justice League.  Right now you have the resurrection of Superman, the formation of the Justice League, and the new threat hinted by Lex in the final scene (that was phenomenally acted by Jesse Eisenberg).  Don’t add in anything else.  I don’t want anything other than those 3 stories.  That is enough.  THAT IS ENOUGH!  I can at least say I don’t hate Snyder being attached to direct, as long as he’s on a leash.  But…I would feel better if he didn’t.  You are on probation.
The music was very grand and epic, costume design was amazing, and as previously stated it was beautiful to look at.  And I was never bored by the movie, and although the editing was sloppy, it wasn’t hard to follow.  Overall, the biggest problem is the script and story, which is a major problem, but the way it was dealt with did salvage it for me, mainly because for a two and a half hour movie it wasn’t all explosions, there was character development, just not enough, I was never bored and actually want to watch the movies that it was setting up as well as the Ultimate Cut.
 
Overall Thoughts:

Okay, so…

Positives:  The Trinity, the characters, Dawn of Justice, Cinematography, Music, Lex Luthor, and Zack Snyder.

Negatives: The script, Zack Snyder, WB interference with storylines from the 1990’s, Fan expectations, Lex Luthor (half/half on him for me, but I can see why some like him some don’t.)

I put down Zack Snyder as both a positive and a negative, for the reasons previously stated.  The movie is very nice to look at, he’s a great visual director.  But the fact a two and a half hour long movie still isn’t long enough for him to get some character motivations out there is very disappointing.  I also put down fan expectations.  I feel as though a lot of people expected the best movie ever, but since I was able to keep myself in check despite high anticipation (this was my most anticipated movie of the year, although I felt Suicide Squad would be the better DC movie).  And once the mixed (The average critics score is a 5.1/10 and 74% audience score according to RT) kicked in a lot of people suddenly were let down.  I can see why some people don’t like the movie.  If you were looking for the best comic book movie of all time, you probably didn’t get it.  At the same time, I feel like if this is the “worst movie you’ve ever seen” or that this is “pure garbage” or really rate the movie less than a 5/10 (2.5/5), you are trying way too hard to hate it.  What I got was personally a movie I had a hell of a time watching, that got me pumped to watch more movies in the future.  I’m not about to apologize for that either.  If you say that I’m wrong, I’ll be sure to file your extremely important opinion with the rest of my extremely important shit, like my old socks that I grew out of 10 years ago.  That is why I rate this film an 8 out of 10.

If you like the movie then I’m glad.  If not, then I value your opinion even though I don’t share it.  If you try and say I’m wrong, attack someone with a differing opinion, or bring up a rotten tomato score to validate your thoughts then obviously you don’t have much of a brain to begin with.  I allow myself to like movies based on my own brain, not on what I’m told to think.  That’s why I’m able to say that I like movies with bad reviews, like Point Break (1990) or Home Alone 2 (those aren’t in my top 20 favorite movies of all time, but I enjoy them at the very least), as well as hate movies with great acclaim, like The Big Short (most overrated film of 2015 for me, I’m glad Spotlight won best picture).  So, do you agree, disagree, thoughts?  Feel free to comment, and thanks for reading.

 

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DannRamm113
DannRamm113 - 3/25/2016, 5:09 PM
Also forgot:Jeremy Irons Alfred was amazing, and had great back and fourth with Bruce, as well as displaced a toughness that was strong implied, based on this movie i would [frick]ing love a jeremy irons Alfred prequel
MiKi
MiKi - 3/25/2016, 5:14 PM
Nice review. A lot of good points dude.
DannRamm113
DannRamm113 - 3/25/2016, 5:35 PM
@ALegendaryPanda @dcnoob122 @aXe @FrozenJoy @grif @Jollem @JredTheRed @Kr08 @LEVITIKUZ @McGee @NightWatcher @Nomis @Minty @TronVin
WinterOstritch
WinterOstritch - 3/25/2016, 5:46 PM
Fair points, Lex and Wonder Woman were the personal highlights for me.

Besides that, this movie was honestly a 3/10 for me, Ive never been so disappointed in a film before. Maybe it was the $25 ticket, or the 2 hour wait, or the three year wait for the actual film to come out. Either way, if this is how the DCEU is going, I might not be staying on for future films.

DannRamm113
DannRamm113 - 3/25/2016, 5:58 PM
@WinterOstritch - can't sat i agree, but i understand.
WinterOstritch
WinterOstritch - 3/25/2016, 6:00 PM
@dannramm113 - Thanks, i respect your opinions as well
jaysin420
jaysin420 - 3/25/2016, 5:53 PM
Good review, I loved the movie...but I also liked the Big Short. So I'll use Bad Boys 2, I thought it was a lot of fun and it's got a 22 on RT (I mostly agree with RT by the way, but they're way off sometimes).
DannRamm113
DannRamm113 - 3/25/2016, 5:56 PM
@jaysin420 - critics opinions are valid, i dont disagree with them. But i won't use them to justify my love for my opinion, unless im saying "the film was critically acclaimed "
jaysin420
jaysin420 - 3/25/2016, 7:41 PM
@dannramm113 - I know what you mean, I just mentioned it so nobody blasted me for ignoring RT or whatever. I forgot to mention this part really made me laugh, it's so true.

"It was also hilarious to me how they mention four different times that there were no civilians within the fight. Side note: can we please never complain about civilian casualties in a comic book movie ever again. Between this and Age of Ultron’s forced “ignore the killer robot, save the people from the falling land mass that we have barely any control of right now”

They even mentioned Doomsday landed on a deserted island or something like that when he fell at first, I had to laugh a bit.
DannRamm113
DannRamm113 - 3/25/2016, 8:01 PM
@jaysin420 - yeah, first time was when the news cast said the downtown was empty, second was the general and how superman was getting doomsday in space, third is the deserted island, and fourth is the abandoned part of gotham mentioned by batman
TheBlueMorpho
TheBlueMorpho - 3/25/2016, 7:09 PM
So you're now done with this site and not coming back right?
DannRamm113
DannRamm113 - 3/25/2016, 7:12 PM
@TheBlueMorpho - considering it dickhead. way too much negativity around here
TheBlueMorpho
TheBlueMorpho - 3/25/2016, 7:15 PM
@dannramm113 -
Considering it? You proclaimed you would. Don't be a liar.
DannRamm113
DannRamm113 - 3/25/2016, 7:20 PM
@TheBlueMorpho - "After my review goes up tomorrow I'm done with this website. Seriously, the people rooting for a movie to be bad are too happy, and now people are following in. I can get the movie is bad, i accept that any movie I watch could be bad, and my expectations for batman v superman are still rooted with that reality when I see it tonight. But the fact that so many people rejoice in it not getting good critical reviews, many of which haven't seen it, shows me the type of people that go here. The same type of people that freak out about a differing opinion or a next button. To the rational people on this site, I hope this sites users go through puberty for you."

A) I said I'm done. What do you think I exactly meant? because i meant i'm done with the flame wars and complaining and dumb prepubescent kids trying to have an opinion.
B) you either have a small penis or haven't gone through puberty yet. i don't care about which one, but grow up
TheBlueMorpho
TheBlueMorpho - 3/25/2016, 7:28 PM
@dannramm113 -
So you're a liar. First calling me a dickhead and now penis jokes. You grow up first liar.
Hawkeye47
Hawkeye47 - 3/25/2016, 7:55 PM
@TheBlueMorpho - bro, your a retard
DannRamm113
DannRamm113 - 3/25/2016, 8:12 PM
@TheBlueMorpho - because you are a dickhead with a small penis. You think that I'll do something for a guy on the internet with a comic book panel as his avatar because he calls me a liar?
TheBlueMorpho
TheBlueMorpho - 3/25/2016, 8:19 PM
@Hawkeye47 -

Thanks
TheBlueMorpho
TheBlueMorpho - 3/25/2016, 8:25 PM
@dannramm113 - it's not a comic book panel. But you sure do easily angered and resort to the most juvenile of insults. Bravo young man.
TheBlueMorpho
TheBlueMorpho - 3/25/2016, 8:29 PM
@Hawkeye47 - You're
Hawkeye47
Hawkeye47 - 3/25/2016, 8:40 PM
@TheBlueMorpho - People like you make me sick, your an asshole. Just, because he gave his honest review (which was positive) makes you mad? Your a dipshit, and if I could jump through this screen to you, I'd whoop your candy ass. Respect this person as you want to be respected, you shouldn't be name calling and picking on him, especially if its on the net. Go, wipe your ass, you smell..
TheBlueMorpho
TheBlueMorpho - 3/25/2016, 8:48 PM
@Hawkeye47 -ok tough guy. This has nothing to do about his review. I'm sitting in theater right now waiting for BvS to start. But you can think that if you want. And you say don't name call but you go right ahead and do it yourself. And it's "you're".
Hawkeye47
Hawkeye47 - 3/25/2016, 9:47 PM
@TheBlueMorpho - your ridiculous, you were picking on this person, which I sno not right at all, I may went a bit to far. But your obviously not right for what you did.. Watch the movie, hate in it whatever..
TheBlueMorpho
TheBlueMorpho - 3/26/2016, 1:37 AM
@Hawkeye47 -
You should have said "Enjoy the movie".
ThedamnBatman
ThedamnBatman - 3/25/2016, 7:17 PM
Just came back from seeing it a third time (twice in one day, had to watch with family too)
My mother is as a general audience as you can get, and she said that she really liked the movie. Which got me by surprise since she isn't into any of the cbm stuff.

I also weirdly liked it even more the third time, i could really pay attention to the fine details present in the movie. And I am utterly convinced that the beginning slowmo montage of Bruce's story is one of the most hauntingly beautiful things I have ever seen.

Will have a read through this tomorrow bud, super tired. thanks for the tag

JoshuaDBr
JoshuaDBr - 3/25/2016, 7:36 PM
This is just a fantastic review. It isn't the most artfully written review, but it is great. It is also the most objective review that I've seen. I'm not saying that because I like the movie; I'm saying that because you allowed yourself to enjoy all of the fantastic things about the movie and still pointed out its flaws. Being a huge Superman fan, I can't help but rate it five stars. I loved the character development, and I loved Superman giving his life in a fight with Doomsday. It seems quite perfectly executed (no pun intended) to me. However, I can see how and eight out of ten score makes more sense. Anyway, I really do think that this is a great review.
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