Movies and the Social Norm

Movies and the Social Norm

I take a look at the "Social Norm" and how it creates an unintended prejudice. Most recently with Zack Snyder's 'Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice'

Editorial Opinion
By TheLoveDoc - Mar 23, 2016 11:03 AM EST
Filed Under: Comics

Hey guys. This is a write up that I’ve been wanting to do for a long time, and now critics reactions to Batman v Superman have pushed me over the edge into writing this editorial. I’m here to talk about “social norms” and how they affect reactions to cinema. What is a social norm you may ask? I use it in the sense that it is a set standard in which people go by to critique something on. It’s like when you go to a doctor’s office and they ask you “On a scale of 1 to 10, how bad is that pain?” In your head, you set a standard as to what a 10 is, and base your particular answer off of that. For a lot of people that 10 is something similar, like childbirth or the biggest kidney stone in history. The point being, according to social norms at any given time, something will be judged based off of that. We do it with fashion, food, books, and most importantly for the sake of this conversation - movies. So here’s the argument I’m going to make: Batman v Superman is not a bad movie (yes, I have seen it), and while it may have flaws (as does everyone movie), it is destined to receive a mixed reception due to the fact that it does not not meet social norms of the genre.

 

       Batman v Superman is not a great movie, but it's taking more heat than deserved.I’m not here to give an analysis about Batman v Superman and its flaws. I hate conversations about flaws. It seems that with certain films we like to point out everything they did wrong instead of everything they did right, but that’s another conversation that I may or may not tie in later. So let’s talk social norms in movies, namely comic book movies. In cinema, there are films that are widely regarded to be great, thus comparisons will always be made to them. Films such as these are deemed as “classics”. This right here goes back to the doctor's scale as mentioned earlier. People will rate other movies usually in comparison to other movies. However, it usually happens within genre’s specifically; this is now where I really dive into the social norms of CBM’s. Comic book movies to day have a standard that is set by Marvel, and this is a unique situation considering CBM’s are essentially a two brand war between DC and Marvel. In any normal circumstance, people will degrade a movie lower than it deserves because it's not as good as its predecessor, because it takes a chance on expanding the genre and doesn’t execute it perfectly, ect. This has a lot to do with highly regarded films within genre, AKA “classics”. And while this is definitely a factor within CBM’s, the Marvel and DC war adds a lot of fuel to the fire.

 

       This war has created a base of hatred and prejudice ( we’re all familiar with this so I won’t focus on such). And it is a “war” that is undeniably lopsided in favor of Marvel (money wise, guys-don’t tear me apart). Marvel’s influence is established and is everywhere, therefore they have helped establish a social norm for comic book movies. Mind that so has Nolan with his Dark Knight trilogy, which has as helped establish other social norms (primarily for Batman, as Marvel’s influence has spread far more than Nolan’s trilogy). Historically, when films go against their social norms, they fail. Take Blade Runner for example. It was mixed upon initial release, but is celebrated on this day, and the same goes for the “classic” 2001: A Space Oddysey (I’m not comparing Batman v Superman to those in the way of quality of film). Batman v Superman suffers from this same thing. Sure, it doesn’t help that some people have wanted the film to fail and that prejudice seeps into their reviews, but as I have read through reviews on the film, I knew for sure I was seeing a historical pattern. When I went to the screening for Batman v Superman the other night, a gentleman next to me started a debate that Watchmen was ahead of its time, and rattled off many of the arguments I present to you. A that's the big idea: Batman v Superman is ahead of its time.

 

       As I read through reviews I would see commonalities such as “no fun” and “go see a Marvel movie” (no joke guys). This is direct evidence of the social norm. It is expected that comic book movies be a certain way because of the genres past and its highlights. So what happens when a ship strays onto the road least traveled? It's a bumpy road. After all ( and while you may disagree with these points, they are merely examples) who said Comic book movies had to be “fun”? Joel Schumacher? Marvel? Seth Rogen? It is now expected by a lot of people that comic book movies be of lighter tone because most of the successful comic book movies have had such tone. You could argue that Nolan movie’s prove this point wrong, but even that trilogy contained a vast amount of uplifting moments and was placed at the round table of “classics” by Ledger’s top tier performance.  People throughout history have always had a hard time with new things, or better yet controversial things that are introduced to them. Batman v Superman is one of those new, controversial things that critics are having a hard time with. Is Batman v Superman a bad movie? In my opinion no, and it is a far better film than Man of Steel. But it is different. It is a grim tale that doesn’t pride itself with uplifting themes or humor (again guys, I’m not against humor, just stating what’s going on here). Some may argue here that films like Guardians of the Galaxy or Deadpool are "different". Well, they really aren't that different. They do have uplifting themes and a fine dose of humor that really work, they do not however strive for the same things that DC strives for.

 

       Will Batman v Superman be  beloved piece of cinema one day? Possibly. But I’m willing to bet that the tone, as already confirmed by Terrio, will take a change for the lighter from here on. Why? People are comfortable with it. Sure, fans love Batman v Superman for the most part and my theater gave a standing ovation. Everyone in that theater loved that it was different and went against social norms. It is definitely a film for the DC diehards (for the most part).  But not everyone is going to like that. I’ll say it again and again: This is a historical recurrence. At the end of the day, it is an individual opinion that decides if they like a movie. However, these factors play an amazing role in determining opinion. As of the time I write the article, Batman v Superman sits at about 40% on Rotten Tomatoes. Spiderman 3 (whatever your opinion on it) sits at 63%. A greater percentage of people liked Spiderman 3 because it wasn’t too different. Sure it wasn’t great, but people were comfortable with it and forgave it of its sins to a degree. You will have an extremely hard time convincing me personally that Spiderman 3 is a better films than Batman v Superman. So I’ll get into a bit of personal opinion here. I’m a huge film buff. Love classics, love foreign films, and just downright love to sit down and watch a good film. I watched about eighty movies that were released in 2015 during 2015 and am indeed on of those “pretentious d-bags” that loves the likes of Birman and holds indie films above most others. So you have my taste in films, and I’d like to think that they’re good tastes, not that I hold my opinion above others mind me; I respect opinions that don’t match mine. After seeing so many films and analyzing them for a variety of purposes, I know a bad film when I see one, at least in the way of the filmmaking process. Batman v Superman is not a bad film, it just goes against the grain of social grain and is not perfect (Stating here again that it does have flaws- all films have flaws. Heck, I’ll go point out some flaws in Citizen Kane if you guys need me to go do that). Again, this editorial is not about Batman v Superman being perfect. It is about it being rated lower than deserved because it goes against that grain.

 

       Note that cinema really started picking up around the 70’s and 80’s. Also note that the vast majority of classics are from the 70’s and 80’s. Why? At that time it was easier to be original, it was easier to set a social norm, and it was easier to be successful ( same thing goes for books ). Now note when comic book movies really picked up popularity in 2008 with the releases of Iron Man and The Dark Knight. We’re only 8 years out from that folks. The images and opinions from those movies still fresh in our minds, and every comic book movie that comes out will be judged according to the success of the past in large part, and that past was not long ago, making it even harder to be different. Perhaps Batman v Superman is just a movie for DC diehards and Snyder forgot to cater to the general audience. However, it has expectations from a general audience that has been molded by Marvel. In no way is this a bad thing, however it is a true thing. So what happens when expectations aren’t met no matter how absurd they might sound? People are let down.

 

       Go see this movie for yourself guys, because this one will be debated about for a while. Again, my argument is not that Batman v Superman was great. In my opinion, it was a good movie...but not great. It has flaws, and I'll say again and again that every movie has flaws. Is it trying to set up sequels? Yes is it, I’m I sure as heck and I’m excited for the future of the DCCU. All Warner Bros needs to do is make sure they cater so current social norms in order to be crowd pleasers. Because although I still think Batman v Superman will make a lot of money, it will be hard to get people to come back to movies they don’t necessarily like.  But when a movie is held to double standards you can see how social norms will make a film seem worse than it really is. It's happened throughout history folks, and it will happen again. Not just with CBM’s, but movies in general. I guess for now I’ll be that guy that likes “bad” movies.

 

Yours truly,

TheLoveDoc


 

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TheLoveDoc
TheLoveDoc - 3/23/2016, 11:54 AM
First article guys. Feel free to give some constructive criticism about article style and errors.

Feel free to tear it to shreds too because I'm sure someone will also do that.

Cheers.
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 3/23/2016, 12:06 PM
Sorry. Had a real hard time reading. Edit it a bit. It's hard on the eyes. I will come back to it later.

But I can assume you made a good point in there somewhere. I heard someone say before that critics as a whole can't think for themselves. I think that's true. It's the bandwagon effect I think. They don't want a differing opinion from their peers, cause their afraid their opinion would no longer have credit. Perhaps even why some of them try so hard to use words in a sentence together that a common person wouldn't say. Like their trying to make you think their smarter than you and they know better than you do. Annoying.

I'm not a huge fan of Man of Steel, but I really want this film to do great. Really looking forward to the central theme of this film. But I think the major disadvantage DC has, is they try very hard to do things differently than Marvel. Whose formula is already proven to work. Really well. Anybody can watch a Marvel film. Where films like Watchmen, The Dark Knight trilogy, and the DCEU films for that matter, while having a humongous fanbase, are just simply not for every movie goer.

I want the entire genre, and sub genres to succeed. So studios and critics can take these films more seriously. Even if the films themselves aren't that serious, or if their more mature. Rotten tomatoes can kiss my ass. I don't car what a critic has to say either, I will base my own opinion on my experience watching this film.
TheLoveDoc
TheLoveDoc - 3/23/2016, 12:25 PM
@WYLEEJAY - Thanks for feedback! Ill adjust everything when I'm back at my computer! Also like points you made on critics and the spiral of silence affect they have on each other.
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 3/23/2016, 12:12 PM
No real reason for someone to tear it to shreds. It's not bad. Just the spacing is hard on my eyes on my phone. Feels.....wonky?
thejackwagon94
thejackwagon94 - 3/23/2016, 12:50 PM
I think with other creative teams at the handle of other DC properties such as Suicide Squad we'll really get some good flicks, even if BvS tanks Wonder Woman is filming and ain't getting cancelled if people are gonna like Wonder Gal as much as these critics say they will, and SS comes out this year, and will most likely kick much ass. We'll still get Justice League and all the others, and hopefully WB learns some lessons as far as who they put behind the camera, and worst case shuffles things around a bit.
TheLoveDoc
TheLoveDoc - 3/23/2016, 2:06 PM
@thejackwagon94 - I'd personally like Snyder to be in more of a cinemtographer role. Love his style, but you need a more experienced director at the helm and creative authorities to hold DC together. I would love to see the like of George Miller have more authority.
sKeemAn
sKeemAn - 3/23/2016, 12:53 PM
Nice read and what you say makes total sense. I for one am withholding judgment til I see the film, but I can totally see its become popular to hate on DC films. I'm not sure why, and it sucks for all CBM fans alike. I do think it unfairly gets compared to Marvel films. If anything it should be compared to the TDK, but even those that have done that have said that TDK has the superior writing. *shrugs*
CrappyNappy
CrappyNappy - 3/23/2016, 12:54 PM
"Will Batman v Superman be beloved piece of cinema one day? Possibly."

BvS was not groundbreaking at all. It was pretty good, but plenty of bad too. Terrible pacing problems, poor editing (may benefit from extended edition GREATLY) WAY too much packed into it, and a fight sequence that just dragged on and on and on...like it was nearly an hour. It doesn't help that it sort of devolves into a Micheal-bay fest of punching through sh*t, explosions and all sorts of over-the-top action that all feels the same after a while. I just became desensitized to it. That's not a good thing

You're trying to paint BvS as this "hidden artistic gem" that will age like fine wine. But, at the end of the day, its another blockbuster movie. Its really no different. It's different for a CBM, but that's it.

Critics are criticizing the film because its qualities as a movie. You make out as if every review talks about it "not being funny" or "go watch a marvel movie" but you ignore EVERY other review that talks about film issues

"It has moments that are engaging and thrilling, but you'll come away pining for something less busy and over-long. Worth a watch, but about as good as Man of Steel."


"It's a shame that Batman v Superman is also a storytelling disgrace. It has maybe six opening scenes and jumps so incessantly from subplot to subplot that a script doctor would diagnose a peculiarly modern infection: disjunctivitis."


"No major blockbuster in years has been this incoherently structured, this seemingly uninterested in telling a story with clarity and purpose."


"It's another numbing smash-and-bash orgy of CGI mayhem with an ending that leaves the door open wide enough to justify the next 10 installments. Is it too late to demand a rematch?"


Do you see a running theme here? None of these people complained about the "Marvel" social norms. Only the quality of the story telling. And even then, BvS is supposed to be a blockbuster movie that you can enjoy. If you're sat there, bored out of your mind because your film takes itself way too seriously then the film is failing. Clearly BvS didn't provide anything else for the audience to engage in and that's why its being panned for not being fun, cos it doesnt seem to be anything else either.

Honestly, if the audience reaction is as bad or divisive as what it is now, then that isn't going to change. 3 years later and people still have the same views on Man of Steel.

BvS isn't some next level art film. It's a blockbuster movie. Like all major CBM's nowadays. People didn't hate it because it was different. They hated it because it wasn't good. Being different does not mean your film is a masterpiece. I could make a movie about a man eating a sandwich for 2 hours and going to the toilet. It would be the most unique film in cinema history, but it would be (pun intended) sh*t.
CrappyNappy
CrappyNappy - 3/23/2016, 1:08 PM
@CrappyNappy - Just to clarify, I'm not making any personal attacks against you. This is just my own opinion, and you could say, rebuttal to the points you made.

It's a good article but of course, you expected people to disagree. As is what happens with every editorial that is written about anything.
Yaf
Yaf - 3/23/2016, 1:47 PM
@CrappyNappy - C'mon man, responding to your own comment? At least take your name out.
CrappyNappy
CrappyNappy - 3/23/2016, 1:55 PM
@Yaf - Lol, im so used to IMGUR commenting system. I just wanted to add something that extra bit to my previous comment haha
KittyTickler
KittyTickler - 3/23/2016, 1:57 PM
@CrappyNappy - I'd like to think both you and @theLoveDoc are correct to a degree. Sort of like in the middle of both of you. While I do think there's bias towards Marvel like he said, I don't think it's as intense as you pointed out and there's clearly issues with the movie. But I wouldn't be surprised if these critics already had their review already thought up in their heads beforehand.

But like he said though, this movie will talked about for a long time and no one can deny that. I just wish it was more because of it being awesome instead of the divisiveness.

I haven't seen the movie yet so I'll reserve my judgement but I'm a teeny bit glad the critics reviewed the way they did. Did I want great reviews for this movie? Of course, I want any comicbookmovie to do well, but if it wasn't for these reviews I probably would've been disappointed with the final product especially after seeing how awesome the initial reactions were. Now I can go see it tomorrow with a level head and either just enjoy it, which I'm sure I will since I'm not too harsh on movies, or actually be surprised and go along with the DC diehards.
TheLoveDoc
TheLoveDoc - 3/23/2016, 2:23 PM
@CrappyNappy - @CrappyNappy - @CrappyNappy - I have a couple friends in the film community who I talked with this morning and gave them my thoughts. A couple liked the film, a couple not so much. They did say however that they've never seen so much unwarranted hate toward a film. You can take the vast majority of films and tear it to shreds if you give it to a extreme film snob. The difference is that some films are more susceptible. You have your opinion on BvS, cool. I respect that.

Is it as bad as they are saying? Possibly. But is unwarranted treatment. I focused on the social norms of CBM's in this article that partly affected the reactions. However, there is the spiral of silence. It's amazing the snowball affect one's opinion can have on others. This is where you have a sort of group hate. Same thing happened recently to Nolan's Interstellar. Is it perfect? No. But everyone on planet Earth know's it's a Nolan film so you better find problems with it to justify your opinion. No film is perfect, so critics shouldn't act shocked this one isn't either.

Not doging on your opinion. I didn't think it was a masterpiece either. But ask yourself if this deserves the same critical response as Transformers.

Again, I'm not against your opinion. I'm just looking at this from the CBM perspective.
CrappyNappy
CrappyNappy - 3/23/2016, 2:44 PM
@TheLoveDoc - To an extent, I do agree with you. It wasn't the worst movie by any means at all, and I'll admit even I'm a little shocked at just how bad it's being received (currently at 37% with 100 reviews).

You know, it's possible that there is a snowball effect going on. I don't agree with the conspiracy theories that there is some sort of "campaign" to slander this movie, but the idea that some critics might negatively review it so as to not appear to be the "odd one out" is definitely plausible.

Also, after reading some of the "rotten" reviews, not all of them flat out bash the movie for being bad. More so, they simply point out the good and bad points of the movie and give it a more balanced review. Unfortunately...RT doesn't register "moderate" reviews. It only categorizes them as "good" or "bad". A critic that gave a film 3/5 might be considered rotten, likewise the opposite might happen and 3/5 may be considered fresh. Its very unfair.
CrappyNappy
CrappyNappy - 3/23/2016, 2:48 PM
@TheLoveDoc - For example

"The movie's not bad but it doubles down on its least-interesting and potent elements at the expense of those that actually work."

That sounds like a negative review, right? It's registered as "Fresh" on RT.

"With its high-grade visuals, quick pacing and constant motion, Batman v Superman never bores. But it seems less like an actual movie for us than a two-hour, 31-minute sales pitch for the rumored DC Comics sequels yet to come."

To be fair, that doesn't sound like a super positive review, but its hardly negative by any means. Yet this moderate review is registered as flat-out rotten.

You can see how RT's system of "collecting" these reviews can cause a film to appear to be more bad than it actually is.
TheLoveDoc
TheLoveDoc - 3/23/2016, 2:50 PM
@CrappyNappy - There's definetly no campaign against DC. I do agree RT's system isn't as great as people think it to be. I wish it were more along the lines of Metacritc where it highlights the average score.
CrappyNappy
CrappyNappy - 3/23/2016, 2:59 PM
@TheLoveDoc - Yep. I mean, the average score (on RT) is 5.3/10. That may not sound like the greatest score but that average might go up to at least 6.3, maybe a lil higher, after a few more months.

6/10 sounds better and shows a film that is considered good, but divisive and not the greatest it could have been. 37% portrays a film that is dogsh*t and worse than some by-the-numbers sh*t comedy movies. Which is HARDLY the case.
FLash
FLash - 3/23/2016, 1:37 PM
Hey man,great article. You put some thoughts into that.

I have something to say aswell and pls, iam not starting any flamewars. I just want to point out and compare this movie.

When the Avengers released back in 2012 people were regardig it as the best comicbookmovie to date. But in reality that movie is nothing other than a average at best movie in regards to storytelling. But that movie didnt suffer the hate BVS had is because people(critics) saw it as a comicbookmovie and sitting there enjoying the magical moment they were shown by Joss Whedon. If you rip down that movie to the core, it is nothing other than a randomly put together and wierdly cut movie of Scenes featuring avengers. we start with shield being attacked in america by Loki than we jump to Russia where Blackwidow is Held in than we jump to India to see Bruce banner and we jump to see captain america Boxing with rage and than tony stark being corny inside Starktower. But if BVS did the same the movie gets treated as if it is underdeveloped and sloppy.

again just want to point this out to people who are blinded by the geek side of them. Iam not a Marvel hater and Avengers is on my list at 2nd place.

English is not my first language, sorry if my writeup is wierd. :)
Yaf
Yaf - 3/23/2016, 1:49 PM
@FLash - It's true, The Avengers is a very average movie... but it's also a very enjoyable movie. So are The Transformers, am I saying that Transformers are as good as The Avengers? [frick] no! Well maybe the first one is almost as good as the second Avengers. Point is, the Avengers is a very, fun, enjoyable movie that connected well. If Batman v Superman connects well too, well then we'll see.
TheLoveDoc
TheLoveDoc - 3/23/2016, 2:28 PM
@FLash - You have a great point. It's a double standard but you don't really know you're doing it. I guess that means someone would be ignorant, but that sounds harsh.
TheManWithoutFear
TheManWithoutFear - 3/23/2016, 1:59 PM
Good write up my friend, but would benefit from a quick proof read. There are a few errors in there ("as does everyone movie".

Otherwise it's well written. For me personally, I felt like your point got a bit muddled mid-way through. Are you saying that BvS is too different to the current slate of CBMs to be properly appreciated?

It seems like Deadpool bucks the trend just as much (breaking the fourth wall, an x-men universe that the GA isn't really used to) and yet people lapped that up?

Though I could definitely be confusing your argument completely so please correct me if I'm making a fool out of either of us!!
TheLoveDoc
TheLoveDoc - 3/23/2016, 2:30 PM
@TheManWithoutFear - I meant to say that there is a sort of double standard as to what Comic Book Movie should be. It's like a check list. Let's say you compare an apple and an orange. Well is the check list was made for the apple and you used it on the orange, the orange would fail. Over time that check list will *possibly* accommodate the Orange.
KittyTickler
KittyTickler - 3/23/2016, 2:02 PM
Create write up! I was thinking about this after reading some of the reviews yesterday.
528491
528491 - 3/23/2016, 6:11 PM
I think I just about get the point you are trying to make here, though I think the terminology you have used is somewhat off-base here. Social Norms such as I understand them are more to do with Behaviors with regard to Morality and Ethics, and not really related to opinion forming and critiques such as you suggest here.
TheLoveDoc
TheLoveDoc - 3/23/2016, 6:23 PM
@528491 - I understand. I kinda explained what I meant by it earlier. Maybe Pop norms would be a better terminology.
528491
528491 - 3/24/2016, 5:46 AM
@TheLoveDoc - Cool. In terms of your original point, I take it to be that you feel there is a certain double standard by critics when it comes to reviewing a movie like Batman v Superman… After all, when Marvel does a movie which is a bit of a bloated incoherent mess in Age of Ultron the critics largely give it a free pass, whereas when DC puts out a bloated incoherent mess in Batman v Superman, the critics absolutely savage it.

Whilst this could to a degree be attributed to the fact that Marvel has helped to shape and influence the current cultural zeitgeist or whatever over the last 10 years, such that conditions are more eminently more favourable to them (which I think is what you are getting at) I believe there is actually a much simpler reason:

Despite all its flaws, Age of Ultron is a movie filled with likeable characters, portrayed by likeable actors, inhabiting a universe which is fun, exciting and an enjoyable place to be in for an audience member. As such, it’s fairly easy for a reviewer to overlook the structural flaws of the movie.

However, when it comes to Batman V Superman, despite seemingly making many of the same mistakes as Age of Ultron, you are left with a movie that has brooding unlikeable characters inhabiting a universe which is dark, grimy and not an especially enjoyable place to be in. As such, those same structural flaws become an easy stick with which to beat the movie as a whole.

It’s no different to real life really. If someone is nice, pleasant and likeable, you are much more likely to forgive them for making a mistake. However if someone is a total jerk, you will likely use that same mistake as an opportunity to have a go at them and punish them for being a jerk in the first place.

In the last few years, audiences and critics have taken well to Superhero movies with all sorts of tones and styles, whether they be dark and serious (TDK Trilogy, X-Men DOFP, Captain America TWS, etc.) or far more light-hearted and comedic (Kick Ass, Deadpool, Ant-Man, etc.). The only common criteria is that they are all solid well-made movies.

My personal feeling is though that when a movie doesn’t quite come together like AoU or BvS, a little bit of likeability can go a long way to covering up those mistakes. DC might do well to remember that for the future.
sickboy76
sickboy76 - 3/25/2016, 1:53 PM
Why are people so upset because it got bad reviews especially when they have already seen it and liked it?


Is part of it eating crow after using aou rt scores to beat it with a stick, and then being made to look foolish when it gets shit scores that don't actually mean anything in the scheme of things
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