MULTIVERSE OF MADNESS: Marvel Producer Reveals What Happened To The Avengers In The Illuminati Universe

MULTIVERSE OF MADNESS: Marvel Producer Reveals What Happened To The Avengers In The Illuminati Universe

Some wondered what happened to the Avengers in the Illuminati universe shown in Multiverse of Madness. A Marvel producer has provided the answer, revealing that world's ties to Age of Ultron.

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By DanielKlissmman - Jul 11, 2022 09:07 AM EST
Source: Empire (via The Direct)

Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness introduced Earth-838 to the MCU, a place where the Avengers weren't the pinnacle of heroism they were on Earth-616. That spot was filled by the Illuminati, a group of superheroes from various teams (the Inhumans, Fantastic Four and X-Men) keeping their reality in order.

The team consisted of Captain Carter, Mister Fantastic, Black Bolt, Captain Marvel (Maria Rambeau), Professor Charles Xavier and Baron/Master Mordo. As hinted at above, one of the most intriguing aspects about this new Earth was that it seemed like the Avengers were never a thing there.

For starters, Multiverse of Madness established that in this reality, the Illuminati defeated Thanos. Further putting into question the existence of Earth's Mightiest Heroes was the fact that Ultron bots were no longer the murderous villains shown in Age of Ultron. Instead, they were loyal servants to the Illuminati. 

Now, though, we have an answer regarding the Avengers' status on that Earth, and it sets up a fascinating mythology for the alternate universe. 

How Age of Ultron Went in Earth-838

Speaking with Empire, (via The Direct), Marvel Studios Producer Richie Palmer revealed that on Earth-838, Wanda stepped away from her superhero duties because Tony Stark's plan in Age of Ultron to have Ultron protecting the world actually worked.

That, in turn, gave each member of the Avengers the opportunity to retire if they so wished: 

"Yeah, we believe that the "838" Wanda had some children and kinda retired. She was happy living a life with her family and didn't need to prioritize being a superhero. Maybe because of the Illuminati, maybe because of some other stuff. [...] But this is a world where Ultron seemed to work the way Tony Stark intended him to work in Age of Ultron. 'A suit of armor around the world,' Tony was trying to get the Avengers to retire [in that movie]. So, imagine [this is a world] where Tony cracked Ultron, and it worked, and he went, 'Hey, whoever wants to retire and go home, can.' And then, the Illuminati came to rise behind the scenes, pulling the strings, but I think it's just a little bit of a better world for whatever reason, and Wanda was able to go and have the life that she deserved."

It had been originally theorized that the Ultrons in the "Illuminati" scene were created by John Krasinski's Reed Richards. Now, however, we know the robots were the work of everyone's favorite Billionaire Philanthropist. 

Creating More Mythology Around the Ultron Incident

Ultron-Banner

Something that stuck out for some about Age of Ultron when it came out was the short time span of Ultron's rampage. In the comics, the killer robot is an ever-present problem who's caused a great deal of trouble for Earth's Mightiest Heroes (and various other superheroes) on multiple occasions over the decades. In contrast, the film version of the villain existed for only a few days.  

Since the movie's release, however, Marvel Studios has made efforts to give the 2015 sequel more weight. This began with Captain America: Civil War, whose premise centered around the aftermath of Age of Ultron, as Hulk's Sokovia incident sparked the world's desire to have superheroes working under the jurisdiction of different global governments. 

Then, the House of Ideas took things a step further with What If...?'s eighth episode, "What If... Ultron Won?," which showed the dystopian future that would have occurred had Ultron not been stopped by the Avengers. 

The story then continued (and concluded) with the show's Season 1 finale, "What If... the Watcher Broke His Oath?" The episode saw different super-powered beings banding together to stop Infinity Ultron — who had achieved a great level of power after obtaining the Infinity Stones — from ruling the multiverse.  

Now, as revealed by Palmer, Multiverse of Madness is part of the tapestry of projects that have given more weight to the Avengers' second big-screen adventure. 

Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness is streaming on Disney+. The film will be available for purchase on 4K, Blu-ray and DVD on July 26, 2022. Avengers: Age of Ultron is also available to stream on Disney+, and for purchase on all home-media platforms. 

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ShimmyShimmyYA
ShimmyShimmyYA - 7/11/2022, 9:03 AM
Wasn’t the original speculation that the Tom cruise iron man perfected ultron? Not Reed / Krasinki
Origame
Origame - 7/11/2022, 9:04 AM
...did they forget Wanda was actively against the avengers until ultron proved to be the greater threat?
Vigor
Vigor - 7/11/2022, 9:14 AM
@Origame - assuming that the good ultrons freed Wanda and Pietro from Sokovia. And without a bad Ultron ally, Wanda gave up ambitions to take on Iron MAn. And just started a family instead
Origame
Origame - 7/11/2022, 9:42 AM
@Vigor - this is saying she retired from being a superhero. She was not a superhero until the end of age of ultron, specifically to stop ultron.

Besides, this is you speculating on what's going on rather than any sign anyone here even thought of that.
Vigor
Vigor - 7/11/2022, 9:48 AM
@Origame - that true. They did state retire from superhero. So either they misspoke during the interview or they have their timelines messed up
Origame
Origame - 7/11/2022, 9:59 AM
@Vigor - yeah. I don't know why they didn't just leave it as "avengers don't exist here". It's pretty much what everyone guessed anyway.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 7/11/2022, 11:11 AM
@Origame - This is actually a good point. Without an evil Ultron, Wanda and Pietro would have likely continued working with Hydra.
Fogs
Fogs - 7/11/2022, 11:19 AM
@Vigor - Vithout Vision though? 🤔
Origame
Origame - 7/11/2022, 11:35 AM
@CorndogBurglar - yeah. It seems like more people are getting hired with only a passing memory of what happened before. Like with black widow being ok with her sister burying an entire prison in an avalanche despite days ago canonically fighting for legislation to keep superheroes in check to avoid collateral damage and loss of life.
Vigor
Vigor - 7/11/2022, 11:46 AM
@Fogs - yeah these kids came from someone else. Vision doesn't exist in this universe. Vision can't create kids because he's an Android. The kids that Wanda conjured up in 616 were copies from another universe, who were fathered by a real life man
TheSuperMex
TheSuperMex - 7/11/2022, 11:56 AM
@Origame - that universe is already different from 616 universe. Maybe Wanda wasn’t anti-Avenger? Captain Carter and a different version of Captain Marvel exists before the events of Age of Ultron so things will be different.
Origame
Origame - 7/11/2022, 12:06 PM
@TheSuperMex - then...why didn't they say that? They referenced age of ultron as if that more or less happened as is in this universe, with the exception Tony was successful in creating ultron. It's why I suggested just leaving the explanation as "there were no avengers in this universe, just the illuminati".
Fogs
Fogs - 7/11/2022, 12:19 PM
@Vigor - eh. Ok, I guess.
Variant
Variant - 7/11/2022, 10:49 PM
@TheSuperMex - Exactly. There's no reason to assume Wanda and Pietro lived the same exact lives as they did in 616. In fact, there are characters in 838 that either don't exist at all in 616 or their story is so insignificant they were never part of the storyline we know.

Alternate universes can have differing factors at many points in time. I.e. Stark Industries may have never negatively impacted the Maximoff family.
Conquistador
Conquistador - 7/11/2022, 9:06 AM
Not trying to hate on Marvel, but their whole phase 4 so far has been dissapointing.

It's been entertaining, but nothing so far has got me as excited as Infinity war. No Way Home was close, but that mostly down to the novelty of the 3 PP's having some great scenes together.

Infinity War and Endgame was peak.

I know it's hard to recreate that kind of energy and those pay offs again though, as it did take a good few years of character build ups.

I just hope Comic Con this year delivers a good tease for Phase 5 and where they're going. And maybe some kind of BTS on Wakanda Forever, though that one was always going to be bittersweet.

Vigor
Vigor - 7/11/2022, 9:13 AM
@UniqNo - I read a very informative comment a few weeks ago regarding this. I'm paraphrasing the comment but it goes something like this...

Too many people are thinking phase 4 just continues on from phase 3. But in reality phase 4 is more like phase 1, introducing us to these new characters and conflicts. In phase 1, we didn't know about the big threat yet (thanos) nor did we know about the infinity stones. We knew of the tesseract and the scepter... that's it.

Crazy right?
But the way we remember it all is that it all was culminating to the infinity war. But if you realize that phase 4 is a reset, then it's basically a much larger and bombastic version of phase 1
Conquistador
Conquistador - 7/11/2022, 9:22 AM
@Vigor - Yeah that is all true, but phase 1 to 3 was also the first time we had experienced a really cohesive shared universe on film, so it was treading newish ground.

Marvel is a victim of it's on success really, I think what I’m not liking is that it's sticking too closely to its established formula, (Eternals aside) and that it's not trying something new. For example…. I feel I would have liked Derrickson's version of MoM more just based on how he talked it up. What Raimi delivered was good but to "same-y". Also some of the CGI was terrible not to mentions Strange’s wig at times.

That's another thing, quite a lot of the visual effect are so bad and rough that it's taken me out of it a few times, especially in the TV stuff. It might be the pandemic to blame in that they're trying to meet business deadlines rather than releasing polished content, but I hope for more practical stuff going forward.

As a fan, i guess it's fair to say we are spoilt for choice these days though.
Kingdork
Kingdork - 7/11/2022, 9:26 AM
@Vigor - That's not really true. Since the first Iron Man we knew they were building up to the Avengers thanks to that Fury post credit scene. So each solo movie had that going for them, they were following that thread, we're building up to an Avengers movie, here are the major players, here's how SHIELD factors in all of this etc... So Phase 1 had a pretty clear tangible goal and you could see a direction. On road to the Avengers movie. That was the first peak that Phase 1 lead to.
Vigor
Vigor - 7/11/2022, 9:33 AM
@Kingdork - you were looking at a singular goal on a smaller scale. Each of those movies led to the infinity war.

But now we have threads for Kang, threads for Celestials, threads for multiverse. They seem disperate. It's hard to see the forest from the trees. But what if I told you that all of those threads will culminate into one Singular conflict [in phase 5 or 6]. We haven't even seen mutants or f4 or blade or deadpool yet. Things are about to get even more confusing before they start to make sense
DTor91
DTor91 - 7/11/2022, 9:39 AM
@Vigor - I’ve heard many people say that but it’s not something I agree with at all. Phase 1 wasn’t so much about the big threat, it concluded with that reveal. But right off the bat, Phase 1 started with laying the groundwork for the Avengers. With the very first Iron Man, that post credits scene that changed the game, we knew what the plan was immediately. Incredible Hulk then came and solidified that further. There was a clear path, and each film from that point on was a stepping stone to the first major end goal. It was a little bumpy getting there, but it paid off massively and we all know where it went from there.

The problem with Phase 4 isn’t the overarching narrative. Anyone who has been able to follow EVERYTHING the MCU is expecting you to follow now, which is another conversation entirely, the next big threat appears to be Kang.
The problem however, is just the notable mediocrity that isn’t very common at all with the MCU. The stand-alones, new ideas, things like that…all great. But the writing, direction, and visual quality have had notable drops. Speaking for myself, I LOVED No Way Home and WandaVision. Mostly liked Hawkeye too. But everything else has been a miss, with very messy and convoluted world-building. That previous path to the first Avengers isn’t a thing anymore. The MCU expects viewers to follow a whole maze now before getting to point B. Which really is asking a lot more out of the audience than it really should. I’ve yet to see Ms. Marvel and Thor because of how I’ve been feeling about the MCU lately. I know I’m not alone there.

Even if Phase 4 was mirroring Phase 1 in a 1:1 manner, we’re in 2022. This a multibillion dollar machine with dozens of films and shows under its belt. This isn’t 2008-2012 where just starting with an Iron Man movie was a gamble and there were bound to be growing pains and mistakes to be learned from. And even at that, I’d rather a much more back to basics and simpler approach like Phase 1 vs what we’re getting now. That’s what a proper soft reset should do. The MCU was never perfect, and I don’t think anyone is expecting perfection even now.
But when you see a student who gets straight As all the time suddenly dipping into Cs, usually something’s up. Even if their next big plan ultimately works, it doesn’t change the fact that getting there is proving to be messier than one expects out the MCU. The criticism it’s getting is fair.
Vigor
Vigor - 7/11/2022, 9:47 AM
@DTor91 - I believe the dip in quality you're alluding to is due to marvels output being 3x what it used to be. They're now putting out vastly different productions (ms. Marvel, Thor are opposite ends of the spectrum) that each culminate to a different conclusion. Ms. Marvel leads to the marvels and Thor has threads to black panther and moon knight.

There's much much less consistency with each production. And marvel is giving directors more autonomy. So it can seem that these movies and shows are made by different studios. I guess you either detest it or are still along for the ride. Trust me I've seen what you're complaining about. But I'm firmly in the "along for the ride" camp because I know it will all add up to something and to use your words, will pay off massively
Kingdork
Kingdork - 7/11/2022, 9:49 AM
@Vigor - What I meant is that at the time of phase one, we as an audience had something tangible to look forward when Infinity War wasn't even on the board yet. At the time, there was just this Avengers movie which was supposed to be the culmination of this idea of a shared movie universe. There was nothing beyond that at time.

Thing is (and it has been said by the Russos) Marvel don't plan ahead that much. Thanos was a Joss Whedon idea and he threw it in there but they had no clear idea how to make it work yet. Fact is Marvel didn't want him to put another villain with Loki but they settled for a post-credit scene. Hence why if you look closely, Thanos' goal and overall character isn't really consistent. Other writer picked up from there and that's how the MCU has worked out since. I mean look at Thor's story arc post Dark World and Ultron. They were leading to something maybe then hired Taika who kinda dealt with those threads in five minutes and he's off to do his own thing. They don't have a well laid plan but know how to work with what they got.

So yeah now they are opening so many threads but I think people have nothing to hold on to at the moment and with quantity over quality issue they're dealing with now it's hard to keep being invested. Personally that's where I'm at and I feel a lot of people feel the same way.
Conquistador
Conquistador - 7/11/2022, 9:51 AM
@Vigor - "I believe the dip in quality you're alluding to is due to marvels output being 3x what it used to be. They're now putting out vastly different productions (ms. Marvel, Thor are opposite ends of the spectrum) that each culminate to a different conclusion. Ms. Marvel leads to the marvels and Thor has threads to black panther and moon knight."

I kind of have my own opinion on that. I think like you said there's so much more output now that they all kind of have to fit the same mold, which is now showing up all the flaws, especially on TV where we can pause and play back everything and examine every minute detail. Its like i said, we're being spoilt so much that when we get good stuff on tap, it's no longer great.

Victim of their own success.

Any even if they tried to scale things back, like their previous 2 to 3 releases in a year, people would still complain, as we're now use to this sudden outpouring of content like we've had since Dinsey+ became a thing.
DTor91
DTor91 - 7/11/2022, 9:54 AM
@Vigor - I realized my comment was way longer than it needed to be. I just got carried away lol.

But yes, I do agree with that and I’m someone who does feel the output could, maybe should, be minimized too. I’d even be ok with a year or two break. Make us all hungry for it all over again. But nothing, except a major flop maybe, is going to stop this train.

And I hope so. We shall certainly. But I think testing one’s patience and a growing sense of fatigue can do more harm than good too. As a fan, I do not and never would wish ill will on what they’re doing. A win for the MCU is a win for fans and other comic productions in general.
JuanRGuijarro
JuanRGuijarro - 7/11/2022, 10:14 AM
@Vigor - there is always a f"cker that loves kissing Disney ass... What is the direction of phase four? there is no one, plz don't continue with your bullish"t
Vigor
Vigor - 7/11/2022, 10:23 AM
@JuanRGuijarro - odd comment. Do you think MCU met this success by winging it?
Nvm don't answer that.
Pssst
Pssst - 7/11/2022, 10:44 AM
@JuanRGuijarro - there is always someone rude who loves countering arguments with unnecessary insults. some people have different opinions than you, sorry if that triggers you
heisei24
heisei24 - 7/11/2022, 10:45 AM
@Vigor - I wouldn't really compare phase 4 to phase 1, it's much closer to phase 2 imo.
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