The Dark Knight Rises - Ok, I'll be the one to say it...

The Dark Knight Rises - Ok, I'll be the one to say it...

Was the Dark Knight Rises really flawed? Yep.

Editorial Opinion
By misterm - Jul 30, 2012 12:07 AM EST
Filed Under: Fan Fic

If you have not seen "The Dark knight Rises," please do not read this.

If you are a Nolanite, please do not read this.

We good? Great, let's move on. Please understand, this is being written with love. As a fan of Batman, from comics to film to animated to television, I love the character. This isn't an attack on the Chris Nolan's movie. Its the voicing of frustration a lot of Batman fans are probably feeling after watching this film. It's my humble opinion, so take that however you want.

The fatal flaw of this movie is that it ignores the core essence of the Batman character.

Let's touch on the first two films quickly and get it out of the way.

"Batman Begins" and "The Dark Knight" are great interpretations of the transition from Bruce Wayne to Batman. The trauma of seeing his parents gunned down before him, making the decision to never take a life, and utilizing his vast fortune to wage a war on Gotham's criminal underworld.

But in the latest and last film, we see Bruce Wayne living as a recluse pining for his lost love, and letting Gotham go on without it's protector. This is very, very wrong.

It would never happen. Bruce Wayne is not Batman. Batman is Bruce Wayne. He defends Gotham so that if possible, no child will ever face the trauma that he did. He has a psychotic drive for vengeance that makes him the character that we love.

Batman is often referred to as "The Most Dangerous Man in the DCU." Know why? Because Batman does not quit. Ever. Take away the belt, the gadgets, the car, and he will still find a way to fight. To win.

DC Characters are pretty simplistic. As a fan, I can admit that. Superman is the good that we all want to aspire to. Wonder Woman is the ideal for both men and women, beautiful, strong, and perfect.

Batman is will. Pure human will. We've all thought about it. You'll never be able to fly. You'll never have Spider powers. But with enough money and time, and if you have the will to do it, you could be Batman.

The other point that I wanted to make is the matter of planning. Batman always has a plan, whether its a vault of Kryptonite, or plans to take out the Justice League, regardless of the situation Batman always has plan.

Now if you haven't seen the movie, really don't read this, but what the hell was up with the second fight with Bane? I understand underestimating him the first time. I can see that from a story perspective. But the second time? Batman is not going to walk into a fist fight, in broad daylight with Bane. Again, this is contradictory to the core of the character. Batman evaluates his previous mistakes, looks at the evidence, and develops a plan. "World's greatest detective," you know?

In closing, I as a lifelong DCU and Batman fan, would really like to see a director/ studio give us the Batman we know and love. I'm tired of seeing directors "interpretations." I want Batman from the comics. I want grim, stoic Batman, brooding in his cave. I want Alfred to be witty and wise and caring. I want cutting edge forensic technology, research, fingerprint analysis, and dna profiling. I want the Dark Knight to swing across the Gotham skyline and for criminals to cower in fear. I wonder if Bruce Timm would be willing to work on a live action movie?

Ok, I'm done. Let the profanity begin!!!!

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NickMP
NickMP - 7/31/2012, 2:33 AM
Ok first gotham didn't need batman anymore because he cleaned the streets up so well and the second fight Batman knew a long fist fight with Bane would just end up the same way and that's why he damaged his mask. Did the movie have some flaws yes every movie does no one is going to make a "perfect movie"
Huguex
Huguex - 7/31/2012, 5:57 AM
Batman always has a plan.

I can give you that. But to tell you the truth, I was already OK with the Nolan's Batman not beign the detective we know and love from the comics. I mean, that was already established in past installments. This Batman is a ninja.
Anyway, it's still a little silly from him to just rush into the second fight without some edge.
The daylight stuff I think it shows the desperate moment in Gotham (not always every villain is goin to wait till midnight to act so Batman can save the day!).
sameoldthing
sameoldthing - 7/31/2012, 6:01 AM
Yeah,this Batman is really just an "Elseworlds" type Batman..there has not been an accurate dipiction of Batman from the comics yet.
Maybe next time.
spager45
spager45 - 7/31/2012, 6:02 AM
Gotta admit, I loved the movie but there was a sense of unease when I got out and you hit the nail on the head. Not necessarily with the daytime fight as that showed Batman in a war and out of his comfort zone in a sense, but more so with the point that Bruce is a facade. Bruce can't stop being Batman, he can't turn his back on all those in Gotham especially after what happens in the film. I know Nolan wanted to show a progress in the chararacters journey, but that progress was shown in TDK when he accepted that he could be the hero Gotham deserves despite the consequences...I thought it was a little bit of a cop out having him survive at the end... Batman is the true face, as Rachel Dawes puts it, and the man she loved never came back. Gotham will always need Batman. And in truth, Bruce will always need Batman.
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 7/31/2012, 8:36 AM
I've said this many times, and citing The Dark Knight Returns' 10 years doesn't justify this one....

A Gotham that is so clean it doesn't need Batman, is not Gotham City. If it's not the Joker, it's Killer Croc. If it's not Killer Croc, it's Ivy. If it's not Ivy, it's Clayface. If it's not Clayface, it's Riddler. If it's not Riddler, it's Two-Face. If it's not Two-Face, it's Penguin. If it's not Penguin, it's Black Mask. If it's not Black Mask, it's Scarecrow. If it's not Scarecrow, it's the Ventriloquist. If it's not the Ventriloquist, it's Mad Hatter. If it's not Mad Hatter, it's Hush. If it's not Hush, it's Ra's al Ghul. If it's not Ra's al Ghul, it's Talia. If it's not Talia, it's Lady Shiva. If it's not Lady Shiva, it's Harley Quinn. If it's not Harley Quinn - it's the Joker....

Batman NEVER sleeps, because crime in Gotham is never so sedated that the cops can handle it. The cops' solution to crime before Batman was to become a part of it, organize it, and control it.

That's the first problem.

The next one is WHY Bruce has not only hung up the cowl, but gone into seclusion. Batman has lost quite a few people over the years. He'll let it get to him, sure, and he'll spend months to years brooding over what he'll call his mistakes, but Batman is his solace. It is his means to direct his rage. For Bruce to be content with NOT being Batman for 8 years is to say that he is no longer angry, that he no longer cares at all.

As you've said, Batman is WILL. It's why we have this picture:


If you consider this an "Elseworlds" Batman, not in line with any continuity, then you are basically throwing your hands up in the air and saying "take my money!" This is not Batman, and has more in common with one of the pretenders from the beginning of The Dark Knight - except I think they wouldn't give up.
nilli29
nilli29 - 7/31/2012, 11:36 AM
There was definitely flaws in this movie but some of what you thought were flaws I respectfully disagree with. Bruce Wayne as Batman always stayed protector of Gotham. Batman was not needed because the Harvey Dent Act brought peace to Gotham. Batman was only needed when the threat of Bane came along.

You imply that Bruce Wayne quits on Gotham, a guy who is battered, beaten and loses the people he loves most (parents and Rachael). Then gets his body broken and gets thrown in a pit to vigorously recoup to save Gotham is not a man who has given up on Gotham. While Bruce was rotting at the consequence of becoming Gotham's vigilante, he never let Gotham rot when all his adversaries tried to.

Spoiler Alert:
The final fight with Bane, it appears you expected a big grand scheme that Batman could have devised to stop Bane. Remember he had hours to defuse a reactor that was gonna blow up Gotham so yes he has to fight Bane in the light. What was he suppose to do wait till night so Gotham could blow up. Plus the final fight scene when Gotham was at civil war was epic.

The flaws that I seen starting with the final fight with Batman and Bane was how Bane died. Come on for the mastermind villain that was capable of matching Batman with brute and wit go out with Cat Women shooting him with a gun, weak (so was the way Thalia died to). The Thalia/Miranda twist was cool but it also diminished Bane's role drastically and instead of being a mastermind he became just a glorified henchman. The characters interactions with each other were weak (unlike the Avengers). Like did Bruce Wayne's love interests with Selina Kyle and Miranda Tate appear realistic. There needed to be more chemistry between Wayne and Miranda, and the Thalia twist would have been a better twist, but hey the movie would have been 3 1/2 hours long if that happened. The only character interactions that was executed exceptionally was Alfred and Bruce Wayne. Plus the film tried so hard to be epic at times came off a little bloated.

Overall this was a good movie. Not Dark Knight special, but at least better than the Avengers special.
tobin131
tobin131 - 7/31/2012, 1:00 PM
I almost stopped reading this article near the beginning, because you ignored something crucial- this portrayal of Batman as a "recluse" IS portraying the "Batman from the comics". I take it you've never read The Dark Knight Returns. Though it doesn't have the same plot as the movies, many of the reclusive aspects to the character bear strong resemblances. The thing that really destroys your own argument is how you keep mentioning that the "Batman of the comics" would never act in such a way as Nolan's Batman did in this film, when one of the most popular comic book portrayals of Batman (Frank Miller's) does just that.
misterm
misterm - 7/31/2012, 4:19 PM
Wow! You guys have put in some really great comments. As I stated, the whole thing is my humble opinion, but I appreciate the feedback. I do have a few things about some of the comments though.

1. Totally agree with Tainted87 about Gotham never being clean enough for Batman to stop. As long as there is a drug dealer on a street corner, a child porn ring, or a murderer on the loose, the Batman would be there.

2. Regarding tobin131's reference to "The Dark Knight Returns," I can't agree with that, because that incarnation of Bruce Wayne didn't retire because the world didn't need him. He got old. Quite a difference.

Lastly, nilli29 you've made some really good points. I can understand him coming back to an uncertain situation and time being a factor. But, and I hesitated to mention this before, but let's talk about the Avengers.

I don't know about you guys, but seeing the Avengers is part of why I felt cheated. Marvel fans got the movie they wanted. Iron Man was smug, the Hulk was angry, Cap was noble an patriotic, and Thor was regal. It was a true comic book movie, that stayed true to the core of the characters, and I didn't feel I got that with Batman.

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