Why the Avengers Might Not Assemble

Why the Avengers Might Not Assemble

Or at least only once. As we all know Marvel Studios is taking the ambitious initiative to create was has been dubbed the Marvel Cinema Universe or MCU...

Editorial Opinion
By juggy4711 - Feb 04, 2010 01:02 AM EST
Filed Under: Fan Fic
Source: ComicBookMovie.com



While I’m sure there may be others, outside of Kevin Smith’s View Askewniverse I can’t think of any group of non-franchise films that have attempted to integrate themselves into a single continuum to the same degree. As a long time reader of comics, particularly Marvel Comics, I find this approach to be a natural extension of the source media. I’ve yet to find the fanboy that wasn’t thrilled with the minor yet necessary efforts at the end of both Incredible Hulk and Iron Man (ok lee777 due to SLJ as Fury but his posts are entertaining so I forgive him), but in our future is hope and anxiety for the remaining movies that will lead to Avengers. While I have no doubt Iron Man 2 will be fantastic and successful, Thor presents the first real hurdle that needs to be jumped. It will be Marvel’s second attempt to integrate a true fantasy element into its CBMs with the less than desirable Ghost Rider being the first.



The Spirit of Vengeance aside, up to this point Marvel’s movies have approached us from the realm of the material world. Whether it was the genetics of the X-Men, the tech of Iron Man, or the science related accidents of Daredevil, Hulk, the Fantastic Four and Spider Man, Marvel has thrust at the general movie going audience the tip of a scientific spear. Even the Blade Trilogy was presented as vampirism with a medical twist rather than supernatural. However with Kenneth Branagh at the helm, which alone adds credibility to the departure from the pseudo-reality established so far, and the all star cast lining up for Thor I don’t think we have a lot to worry about. Strangely enough my concern is for the next piece in the puzzle and the return to the world of science. Yes Captain America.



Even though Marvel’s “First Family” may be the FF, Captain America is arguably Marvel’s Founding Father. While Namor, the first Human Torch and a few others may have come first, I find it a challenge to put them ahead of Steve Rogers. He is the George Washington of Marvel Comics. Captain America may not be among the most powerful Marvel characters and though he wasn’t included in Bendis’s Illuminati, Cap is Marvel’s moral compass, the unchallengeable leader of all that is right and good in the Marvel Universe. Was there any reader that seriously took Stark’s side in Civil War? So with my unmistakable praise of Captain America why am I so worried about his adaptation to film?

As Aristotle said “man is a political animal”. I find this site refreshing beyond imagination because even considering the casting of a non-American as Cap, this site is apolitical. We don’t find the issue of whether or not the actor is American as important as long as they can represent Steve the way he should be (as DogsOfWar’s article indicated). Politics tend to be depressing regardless of one’s views. I read not just comics but fiction in general as an escape from reality and find it discomforting when make believe draws me back in unnecessarily. Unfortunately politics are unavoidable when it comes to Captain America. Let’s face it. Regardless of one’s political views the events of the last decade have cast a negative light on America.



Who can argue that America is often viewed as a villain outside our own country and sadly even within by far too many people? While I cannot for the life of me imagine (outside that of a parent) an occupation worthy of praise more than a soldier that has volunteered one’s service to their country, there are far too many folks that are more than happy to condemn them. This is my fear for Captain America. Will the world accept a purely American hero anymore? Will Hollywood find Rogers cool when so many there and abroad perceive our country as the bad guy? Even Super Man was relegated to “Truth, justice and all that stuff” because of the PC world we live in.



While I have an affinity for Captain Britian, which some may not even appreciate, I find it difficult to believe that outside of the English speaking countries (USA and UK primarily) people will identify with much less tolerate Captain America as a hero. My fear is that CA will be considered imperialist or in other ways receive bias from the rest of the world simply because he is an American. If the Cap movie doesn’t make it worldwide we better hope it makes money here in the States otherwise we will have to live with one Avengers movie at best.

As a final note the failure of Marvel to unite it’s film universe successfully, whether through a poor boxoffice performance of Captain America or Avengers, will likely result in DC’s reluctance. While I am a Marvel fan I love DC as well and Green Lantern will be their test. If DC doesn’t take the opportunity to unite their comic world with GL, at least in the minor form Marvel managed with IH and IM don’t expect it to ever happen at least not for many years to come. The Avenger’s success is not only the future of Marvel movies but of DC’s as well. At least as CBM continuum’s are concerned. While the release dates for Cap and Avengers may guarantee us at least one united film, the failure of Captain America or the Avengers will doom us to just the one.

I sincerely hope that I am wrong and that we not only get to enjoy a Marvel Cinema Universe but a DC Cinema Universe as well.

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breakUbatman
breakUbatman - 2/4/2010, 5:21 AM
Dude negative sentiment to the US is fairly recent in my opinion. I'm sure most people were raised on American cartoons. My introduction to Cap was that old cardboard cutout show with the catchy theme song from waaaay back.

Patriotism shouldn't be a problem because that's what Cap is all about. I can understand Superman's values being changed because Superman is universal everybody knows him and his origin and abilities are way more important than his nationality. The same can be said about Spider-man I know he's a New Yorker but it just seems weird that Sam Raimi kept throwing in scenes of him next to the US flag.

Cap will do alright because that's who he is.
ChrisW
ChrisW - 2/4/2010, 7:47 AM
I've been reading your stupid little web-site now for two/three years because superheroes were intriguing enough coming off 2 decades of Star Wars to learn more about. I love FX and huge music, maybe it's because I grew up watching football and seeing collage games at The University Of Michigan. I'm sick of the left in this country to know end, they are idiots. It is a proven fact that they are the minority in this country so f*** them. Most people in America are conservative and church going people. It's only for the fact that people are interested in hearing that America sucks that it even is spoken about, not that it actually does. Saying Americans aren't "cool" or "the world won't except us" is old and boring and retarded. You are retarded. I obviously couldn't give a shit about the world. The world is nothing like America in any way. Our entire government makes absolutely no sense to anyone in the "world". We have 3 different branches of government and our news and media information is not run by the government you little twit! The world raced to go see GI f***ing Joe. You need to read other sites other then your own. You are pathetic. I think you should move and go to Afghanistan and rub all their backs. You're a puke.
StuckInPanels
StuckInPanels - 2/4/2010, 7:59 AM
also the reason why they haven't been able to unite the comic worlds is because other companies own the rights to certain characters and they don't want to lose out any entitlement to more money. I'm sure we will a coherent universe once Disney acquires all the rights and they settle the kirby kids problem. Regarding Cap, in the comics they make this mention that Captain America is neither a left or a right. He's more of a symbol of what we are capable of as a hero, that sacrifice is necessary to protect the land he loves. Also I'm sure people outside the USA will enjoy Captain America because the film will be a period piece and be more about the character than his politics. As for Avengers, its gonna be a fun film regardless. We do have the worry of Thor, but if you read an article here that these Asgardians may be scientific based than mystical(like DC's NEW GODS). They want to get this film correct because this is a make or break film for Marvel Studios, this will be the first ensemble superhero movie.
DogsOfWar
DogsOfWar - 2/4/2010, 9:27 AM
Great editorial Juggy (thanks for the shout out). Because each of these characters is getting a solo movie, Avengers will be able to integrate them for the general public. I believe they will be able to use their different backgrounds as strengths.

@TheMan2099-you spank it watching Sara Palin, don't you. Get a grip idiot.
MisterFixit
MisterFixit - 2/4/2010, 10:52 AM
Theman2099@ you said collage game? Here's a small one for you:
[i se be th ve ts, all en id em ha you at io but]
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 2/4/2010, 11:16 AM
@ theman

um, "they are the minority of this country, so f*** them"??? really?? so anyone that is in the minority should be ignored?? you DO realize this country was founded on the idea of people having their own views, right?? you try to sound so educated when it comes to politics, yet you forget the ENTIRE thing our country is based off of?? and if you don't like it, then it sounds like YOU'RE the one that needs to move to Afghanistan. way to make yourself sound like a douche.
TheMyth
TheMyth - 2/4/2010, 12:00 PM
TheMan, And you conservative Republicans are the reason we are perceived that way. And guess what, when everyone is calling you an asshole, you probably are, like the saying goes... A man calls you a horse, you punch him in the mouth... another one calls you a horse, you punch him in the mouth also... a third one calls you a horse, it may be time to start shopping for saddles. Not only are the likes of you responsible for the worlds perception of us, but you are also what is wrong with this country. There is nothing American about being greedy, selfish, narrow-minded, short-sighted, stubborn, destructive, divisive, vain, deceitful, self-righteous, and just generally stupid. So while your fawning over how great you are, remeber that YOU are the reason our health care system is 37th in all the world, and YOU are the reason our education is a laughable average of 25th(our best subject being reading at a whopping 18th), YOU are the reason we're taxed on everything we have, everything we will have, why our national currency is actually debt itself, and why the absurd is made law. You and your ilk are responsible... and the rest of us are fools for allowing it to happen. How very Christian of you to say [frick] the rest of the world while proclaiming yourself a 'Conservative Church-goer'. In closing, from a white 27-year old male in middle America, go on and hang yourself on that cross with Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh, as I know your stubborn nature as a conservative douche won't have allowed a bit of this to sink in. [frick] you and have a nice day ;)



To my foreign folks, do me a favor and try to avoid generalizing all Americans with that douche. Forever refer to them as Conservative Douchebag American, or CDA for short.
breakUbatman
breakUbatman - 2/4/2010, 12:15 PM
Ha ha hilarious. Don't worry about the perception of the US if people like John Cena and Kurt Angle(hell most wrestlers) can be accepted globally Captain America shouldn't have a problem.

My only question is whether too many heroes will have the same effect as too many villains
Dmon
Dmon - 2/4/2010, 12:31 PM
Nice article Juggy I have been thinking the same things.

Also @ TheMan and TheMyth you are both whats wrong with this country so you can both go Frick Off together.
Betty
Betty - 2/4/2010, 1:09 PM
[frick]ing CDA
Dmon
Dmon - 2/4/2010, 1:40 PM
Frick CDA and LDA. They are both the reason they killed off Cap in the first place.
StephenStrange
StephenStrange - 2/4/2010, 2:03 PM
I am not going to argue with anyone about this, but personally I think that much of what the world thinks of us is based on leftist propoganda that has been socialized globally.

It has something to do with the baby boomers and what they have taught their progeny about things like war and economics. The children of the baby boomers are now powering the work force and make up the bulk of the media consuming and media creating public which of course includes bands, tv networks, many hundreds of films and tv shows, and a large portion of popular literature. Common popular themes derived from a left skewed rationale commonly held permeate society and are consistently promulgated through the work and entertainment apetites of the post baby boomer generation which keeps popular notions from the '60s in circulation and seemingly relavent for 30 years now. This is a movement that has become so prominent in society that it's now considered a megatrend. There is an extreme saturation of ideas that were once considered radical and destructive within every level of society. Those ideas are now extremely popular and commonly accepted as a world wide axiom. To millions and millions of people this is now just a matter of common sense.

Meanwhile, does simply believing in free enterprise and the right to keep the money you make... does that really make a person "vain, stupid, self righteous, deceitful" and all those other things TheMyth described?

Or is it maybe just a point of view?

Or does fighting back when you have been attacked, such as in Iraq, does that make you imperialistic? Or jingoistic? No of course not. But this is what people believe now. They believe it because they are taught to.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 2/4/2010, 2:06 PM
@ dmon

actually, cap was killed off to make money ;)
Dmon
Dmon - 2/4/2010, 2:07 PM
@DarthMulder I agree with you. On you first comment.
Dmon
Dmon - 2/4/2010, 2:16 PM
@Corndog On Steve Rogers being killed in Captain America vol. 5, #25 (March 2007). Series writer Ed Brubaker remarked, "What I found is that all the really hard-core left-wing fans want Cap to be standing out on and giving speeches on the street corner against the George W. Bush administration, and all the really right-wing fans all want him to be over in the streets of Baghdad, punching out Saddam Hussein". So money did have something to do with it but also the division in this country.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 2/4/2010, 2:23 PM
@ dmon

i was just being cynical dude
Dmon
Dmon - 2/4/2010, 2:26 PM
@Corndog ok ;D
Spock
Spock - 2/4/2010, 3:15 PM
U you Marvel does a great job with comic & politics with our reality. Just look at the Mutant Registration act, Civil War. By the I sided with IronMan on the Civil War--but disagree about making there Idenities know.

The Man 2009--stop f.... the air space here. I you want the U.S. to be a better country tell those senators in DC to stop fight with each other & get something done all ready. Pres. Obama had it right in his State Of the Union address.
BIGBMH
BIGBMH - 2/4/2010, 3:22 PM
I think if they do a good job of showing the action and scope of the movie when they market it, people will look past the America thing. You make a very valid point though (which is a pretty good reason not to include the "letter on my head stands for France?" line) However, I don't think anti-American sentiment will affect The Avengers that much. People really seem to be growing to like Ironman. That alone will likely be a pull that will negate much of the Captain America hate.
Dmon
Dmon - 2/4/2010, 3:59 PM
@Spock I agree with you on congress but disagree on that that last part. I believe that Obama has caused as much division in this country as Bush did in fact it has esculated more under Obama. During his speech there was nothing in it about him trying to reach across the isle in the future. I would like to see us totally doing away with political parties but until then there needs to be more working together of both parties.

Also in the Cap film no politcs need to be involved. He needs to be middle of the road if anything.
Spock
Spock - 2/4/2010, 4:11 PM
@ Dmon he did grill both parties, but u can't blame the man for all the problems, He been more humble than most Pres & has tooken blame on issues. I think he has done pretty good so far but nothing stellar. Iam not absorbing everything that comes out of his month, but he is doing better than others in the past!
thwhtGuardian
thwhtGuardian - 2/4/2010, 6:01 PM
Superman Red Son is Tea!
Hawksblueyes
Hawksblueyes - 2/4/2010, 7:38 PM
All I can say after reading this is it won't be long before we will all be asking "who is John Galt"?
Dmon
Dmon - 2/4/2010, 8:02 PM
@Hawksblueyes they need to make that book a movie.
contrast
contrast - 2/4/2010, 9:40 PM
Just...um, to get back on track for a second... here's a small bit of trivia-- Aside from the View Askewniverse I can think of at least one other "group of non-franchise films that have attempted to integrate themselves into a single continuum to the same degree."...or at least to some degree. That'd be "Jackie Brown" and "Out of Sight". Which both feature Michael Keaton as the same character, Ray Nicolette. This is even more impressive (though his part in "Out of Sight" is brief) because "Jackie Brown" and "Out of Sight" were produced by different studios. It would be like Spider Man popping up in an X-Men movie.

Now, back to your political discussions...
OptionFour
OptionFour - 2/5/2010, 1:05 AM
As a Canadian I want to point out that I'm actually really looking forward to the Cap movie. I'm fully aware he's an American character, and stands for American values, which (despite hundreds of thousands of jokes on the subject) aren't quite the same as Canadian, but it doesn't matter. He's a well-written character, and compelling. Much like I didn't need to be a Scotish Nationalist to watch Braveheart, I don't need to be an American Nationalist to watch Cap.

And as to the politics thing, I can't speak for anyone else, but most everyone I know in Canada makes a strong distinction between American Government and American People. A lot of folks may not like some of your Government's choices, but we've always been friendly with the people.
Scholes60
Scholes60 - 2/5/2010, 2:06 AM
I'm an Australian science fiction writer and Marvel fan boy.

I particularly hope that the Thor movie does well. I'd also go to see the Captain America movie.

Hell I've even written fan fiction about these guys (especially Thor):

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1276881/David_Scholes

If you get a chance maybe check out some of my recent science fiction:

www.StrategicBookPublishing.com/ScienceFictionandAlternateHistory.html

http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Reading-Science-Fiction-Scholes/dp/1449581889/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261366245&sr=1-1

Cheers
Hawksblueyes
Hawksblueyes - 2/5/2010, 6:25 AM
Option: Very good points. I don't think there is a government on the face of the Earth with their nations well being truly at the forefront of their actions.

I also don't believe there are a great number of any nations citizens that really sit at home with animosity towards another nations citizens dominating their thought process.
StephenStrange
StephenStrange - 2/5/2010, 7:15 AM
@ Dmon: I agree with both the "Atlas Shrugged" thing and the Obama thing. And the no politics thing. Pretty much everything.

@Hawksblueyes: I don't know about that bro. That's not the vibe I get from the Middle East at all. And then there's displaced Palestinians that wouldn't mind if we were all dead. Situations like that

@ OptionFour: Cool! And if they ever do an Alpha Flight movie I'll be first in line!
Hawksblueyes
Hawksblueyes - 2/5/2010, 8:27 AM
Darth: Point taken, let me rephrase.

I don't believe there are a great number of citizens in (MOST OF THE WORLDS NATIONS) that really sit at home with animosity towards another nations citizens dominating their thought process.
Dmon
Dmon - 2/5/2010, 11:21 AM
@DarthMulder the only problem with a Atlas Shrugged movie is whether ppl will sit thourgh John Galt's long speech in a movie theater.
Dmon
Dmon - 2/5/2010, 3:27 PM
@tea lol Agreed
TheMyth
TheMyth - 2/5/2010, 4:16 PM
I am John Galt. Funny thing, I am moving to Colorado this year.

DarthMulder, lol, just because I loathe CDA's doesn't mean I'm some tree-hugging, left-wing socialist. Okay, I am a tree-hugger, lol, but certainly not a left-wing socialist. I enjoyed your 'Baby Boomer' argument, though I feel it more explains how non-Conservatives have been fooled as well as our rampant consumerism. I would not call any military conflict we've undertaken as 'Imperialistic' as it would imply a level of subjugation. Militaristic is certainly a good word for it though it shouldn't be taken out of context as a bad thing, only bad in improper execution (With great power comes great responsibility, hehe). Jingoism is subjective to the times, what isn't so now, could be in the future. My issue's aren't our foreign policy though. My problem is the Federal reserve and Central Banking controlling our currency and 'lending' it with debt attached. Every dollar you or anyone in America earns isn't actually theirs, but a loan from the Federal Reserve with interest attached. My problem is a miserable health care system is an insurance controlled racket that offers incentive for sick patient care rather than preventative care, as well as controlling the outrageous expense and quality of care. My problem is the 'deliberate dumbing down' of Americans through our educational system and sleight-of-hand media so that we get to stupid to question such things at all. It all amounts to keeping us poor, sick, and dumb. Thanks for a well thought out response ;)



This is an excerpt from a documentary that is very informative. Watch the whole thing if you get time. Everything from the video can be cited by anyone with google.



Though Obama's plan has it's flaws, it is considerably better than what we've got now. France is currently #1 in health care, just for an example of a well functioning Universal Health Care system.



What else can I say.

Dmon, your right, I am, and so are you, and every other American whether through action or complacency or disorganized dissent, but some ideologies only drag us further down. I can agree that partisanship sucks, but there will always be differing ideas and those like-minded will always amass to strengthen their voice.

Tea, indubitably.
DogsOfWar
DogsOfWar - 2/5/2010, 5:26 PM
Good stuff Myth

Welcome to Colorado. If you got any questions, I live just outside of Denver.
juggy4711
juggy4711 - 2/5/2010, 10:38 PM
Wow I wasn't ecpecting such a hornets nest. While I care not to reveil my politics I will say that I disagre with all of the right-left stuff. I think most reasonable folks can find fault with both parties. My ultimate point was that Cap is uniquely American unlike Spidey or Iron Man in that he represents the USA specificaly. Will the rest of the world accept him?

@Tea and Dogs. Thanks this is my first article, hopefully the next one is a bit more cheery. Coming from you two I really feel as though I did well.

ETA @Tea way to diffuse the situation. Best things about CBM.com

CBM News
Boobs
Fan Fic
Boobs
LEE777's obsession with his fan picks
Boobs
Buts
Boobs

Come to think of it we need more Butts. The Boob to post ratio is pretty damn good between you ans Sirprize.
juggy4711
juggy4711 - 2/6/2010, 9:47 AM
Thanks Tea I knew we could count on you!
TheMalcontent
TheMalcontent - 2/8/2010, 8:16 PM
DarthMulder@ Keep on speaking the truth brother! Oh and TheMan2099 you make you're self seem likre a ass.
Good article juggy4711.
Ryden
Ryden - 5/13/2010, 8:52 PM
@Darth- Actually, I'll have to disagree with you, all of my negative views towards America..and trust me there are plenty...are because of exactly the things TheMyth pointed out, right-wing MORONS and idiots like Tea-Baggers and George Bush and Bill O'Reilly and all of those types of people is what makes me really hate some aspects of America, on the other hand I see a lot of Americans that are actually intelligent and aren't commercial and imperialistic and traditionalists...they actually want to progress...but no these assholes are in control of everything. And the world does really hate America, it's incredible really. America is a gerta place (been to New York and loved it) but the commercialism makes it seem completley phony.
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