So we finally arrive at my last editorial in my spate of editorials regarding the potential DC Cinematic Universe rollout—thus far covering Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, and the Justice League. But many people recently has been championing for the television universe of CW’s Arrow to be connected to the DCCU. What follow in my last editorial is mainly my comments on the aforementioned show, whether or not I feel its “world” can be incorporated in the DCCU I have envisioned, and the general state of DC’s potential television properties. Because I am likely to get a lot of backlash for my views here (…foreshadowing…), I just want to once again state that everything here is strictly my opinion. So without further ado…
Now, if you read my Justice League editorial in its entirety, then you know ultimately how I feel about incorporating the world of Arrow into the DCCU. But before I expound my reasoning , I would simply like to take a few moments to discuss my opinion and the good and the bad of the show.
While I’ve always enjoyed the divergent of a comic character’s depiction in a television show from its original counterpart in the comics, there is a limit to my tolerance of deviation. With that being said, most of my complaints from the characters (and indeed those worth mentioning in this editorial) stems from the depiction of two specific characters: Laurel Lance and Roy Harper. To be completely fair though, their flaws (in my opinion) stem mostly from their mere existence in this universe where Oliver Queen is just starting out in his crime fighting career. I’ve always envisioned the character of Green Arrow as an older superhero (alongside the likes of Aquaman and Martian Manhunter). Note that just because I envision him to be an older superhero doesn’t mean he pre-dated, super-heroics-wise, Superman and Batman etc. Rather, he’s just a little older than the rest of the guys (if no less mature). With that being said, I’m perfectly fine with a young version of Green Arrow (played by the ever in shape Stephen Amell).
However, this inadvertently gives me trouble rectifying this young Green Arrow’s relationship with Laurel and Roy. I’ll explain. One thing I felt separated Green Arrow’s relationship with Black Canary in the apart from the likes of romantic relationships in the comics is the age difference between the two character. For one reason or another, I’ve always imagined Green Arrow to be a good thirteen to fifteen years older than Black Canary. I liked it that way because it was more diverse and provided a fresher take on relationships in the comics. Now, I understand this might not actually be the case but if I had my way, Laurel Lance probably wouldn’t even be in the show. But she is and while I can certainly make peace with that, I think we’ve all gotten a little tired of her lame subplots and Cassidy’s wooden, soap opera acting. This in itself is also another problem with the show. I guarantee you guys, however, that of all the characters on the show, she’s the second least likely (behind Green Arrow himself) to leave.
Now, Roy Harper. I get the feeling he’s a fan favorite so I might get some serious hatin’ for this. Anyway, while his storyline is relatively interesting, one of the things I absolutely abhor in these comic TV shows are the appearance of these sidekicks that are supposed to be next generation. As such, characters like Kara and Connor Kent should never have had appeared on Smallville. In terms of Roy, I think Green Arrow and Speedy’s relationship as father and son is one of the more interesting and dynamic hero-sidekick relationship in the comics. I prefer it that way than the more brotherly love going on between the two in the show. I just personally have trouble remedying the fact that Roy might become Speedy, Arsenal, or Red Arrow before Green Arrow is even actually…well…Green Arrow. He’s still very much in the vigilante stage (that word is thrown out way too much) and isn’t even a seasoned crime fighter yet. While I can live with a similar age Roy and Ollie on the show, I’m not too keen on having Speedy and Green Arrow starting out within a couple years of each other. This wouldn’t be such a discomfort for me if I was assured that Roy never picks up a bow in the show.
Besides the characterizations have these two characters, I think the show has been great so far. It has handled its baddie-of-the-week idea better than most and the darker, grittier tone has been enjoyable to watch (helping it stay away from the campiness that at times plagued Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D). Its choice of original villains and those pluck from the comic books have typically been well done. I do have some major characterization problems with Deadshot, Bronze Tiger, and Vertigo—mainly them being formidable and important villains in the comics but feels/look/act decidedly less so in the show—but at least one of them have been killed off. Here’s hoping the other two don’t reappear and if they do, either get re-casted or re-characterized. Otherwise, if they can keep taking small-time villains like the Dollmaker and giving them a creepy-ass storyline, they should be golden.
So now that you know how I feel about the show (to sum it up: has flaws but looking good) I can safely say that I DO NOT want the Arrowverse to be connected with the DCCU. The decision to come down on one side of the fence in this debate hasn’t been easy. I went back and forth several times. Ultimately, the reason why I landed on the side that I did is because I simply cannot accept Grant Gustin in the role of Barry Allen. He is the one key in the Arrowverse that is holding me back from accepting their world into the DCCU (strangely I get the feeling he might be the reason people do want the universes to be related). I gave Gustin the benefit of the doubt, stating in my Flash editorial that I will watch him on Arrow first before definitively deciding whether I like him in the role of Barry Allen. He made his debut in the episode “The Scientist” on Arrow and I found the episode absolutely abysmal—easily one of the worse episode of the season. I was cringing a bit after every time he opened his mouth to talk. The next episode, “Three Ghosts” is a different story. I thought it was much better and Gustin had a better role in that episode.
However, I still stick to my initial hesitant with Gustin. He is through and through, a TV actor and will at best be a supporting character on film. That’s not enough for the Flash in the Justice League film. He needs to have the same presence on screen as the other heroes all played by bigger names who have appeared in franchises in their career already. Gustin, meanwhile, has little to no credible cinematic experience. I dare you to go look at his film resume. I am not willing to entrust such a beloved and important character to such an inexperienced, baby-face actor. Like…really not.
Having said all that, I do want to say that whether or not the two worlds are connected hardly matters. With the exception of Barry Allen, none of the characters that have thus far appeared on Arrow will ever show up in the Justice League or any other cinematic solo feature film of each of the Justice League character. I’m sure you can name a few character that you feel can appear in a film but they won’t. The only other feasible characters that may make a big screen debut are Green Arrow and Deathstroke. I’ll get to Green Arrow in a minute but first Deathstroke. There’s no denying that the character in the comics and the TV show is badass. But he is primarily a Batman and Teen Titan villain. Teen Titan isn’t getting a film anytime soon and Batman has far too great a rogue gallery still yet to be touched for the filmmakers to make a go at Deathstroke. At best, I envision him as a one-off tertiary character.
Now, even if Deathstroke does make it on to a film (which I just admit is a possibility however unlikely), I’m not sure I want Manu Bennett playing the character. Now before you go ahead and vehemently defend Bennett, I just want to say that I AM a fan of the actor. I’ve followed him through all four years of the Spartacus series (dare I ask, how many of you actually did?). But that’s also the problem. After watching the actor in several seasons of different show, I’ve come to the conclusion that he really only has one acting style—that of a tough, growly badass. It’s a little boring. It’s so distinctly him that I guessed he played Azog in the Hobbit films before I even actually found out. Now maybe he does have other acting style, but I need to see it happen on Arrow for me to change my mind.
Now, Green Arrow. As you may expect, Stephen Amell’s Green Arrow is actually the only thing that really had me rooting for some relationship between the DCCU and the Arrowverse. Not that I think Amell is the best actor, but he does a decent job and I like the way they characterize Green Arrow in the show (he could be a little more jokey). I would love to see Bruce Wayne/Ben Affleck make an appearance on the television show, the scene which is consequently used in some post-credit scene somewhere. And if you’ve been following my editorial, in my last one about the Justice League, I mentioned that I would like to see a rotating roster for the League—meaning after the third Justice League film (ending a trilogy) the heroes we associate with the League (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and the Flash) “retire” (or just leave the team) at which point Hawkgirl (the newest recruit) takes over as leader and recruit new members. Green Arrow can be one of those new members. He would replace Batman as the veteran, billionaire funding the League. Now, in my own timeline of film releases (which I will disclose at the end of this article) a fourth Justice League featuring mostly-new cast members would, at the earliest, come out in 2025, thirteen years from now. Stephen Amell will be 45 years old by then but that’s okay! As I’ve mentioned, I’d always imagine an older Green Arrow.
But alas, due to my ultimate decision to not have the two universes relate, I have go against my desire and say this can’t happen.
Now that I felt like I have sufficiently discussed Arrow and said everything I wanted to say about that, what about the rest of the DC’s television properties in development? We’ve heard rumors of a renew Wonder Woman television series, Constantine, Hourman, and of course the Flash. Oh, and let’s not forget Gotham, the television series in development that supposedly tackles a pre-Batman Gotham.
I used to believe this was the way to go (at least the general premise of the GCPD taking on Gotham’s criminal underworld and taking advantage of the public’s insatiable desire for more procedural drama) but since I’ve developed a Batman television series of my own (which you can read in my Batman editorial…sorry…don’t know how to insert hyperlinks) this ideas has been put in my back burner. The idea is still very feasible though in context of the universe that I have been building it would take place when Bruce Wayne decides to travel the world in his bid to become a crime fighter (this is what my Batman television show as about). Theoretically, if this is the case, the show would follow the character of James Gordon who returns/transfers to Gotham from Chicago or New York where he has been for the last several years. He, like the character in Batman Begins, starts off as a run-of-the-mill detective. The show I think should chronicle the rise of Gordon from detective to Sergeant to Captain and finally Commissioner (or maybe he doesn’t even make it to Commissioner by show’s end). In context with the universe that I am building, the show correlates with the Batman TV series so by the time Bruce Wayne returns to Gotham and don the mantle of Batman, the show runner can determine whether or not they want Gordon as Commissioner.
Now, in my Ben Affleck Batman universe, I’ve casted Mark Harmon as a white-hair Commissioner Gordon (given Batman’s age, Gordon is already in the latter half of his career). I’m not sure who I would want as a younger Gordon in the TV series. And to be honest, I’m not in the business of fan casting for this editorial.
Moving on.
I don’t personally have much to say about the other shows except that I am assuming the Wonder Woman TV show isn’t happening anymore (titled Amazon was it?) when they casted Gal Gadot as the big screen version of the character. And base on my feeling towards Grant Gustin as the Flash in Arrow you can probably guess how I feel about a Flash TV show. However, I wouldn’t be so adverse to it if it wasn’t connected to the DCCU. Only time will tell.
Meanwhile, I think Hourman and Constantine are great directions for DC to expand their smaller-known properties on television. The only problem with Hourman (or rather, what may provide difficulty in retaining its main comic fan base) is that the character is so obscure and minor in the comics that little comic-related villains and supporting characters worth watching can be found to be brought into the show. At least John Constantine has the ability to expand on DC’s magic-oriented universe, with the ability bring in mainstream comic characters like Madame Xanadu as well as some Vertigo characters.
To solve Hourman’s problem, I propose that DC/Warner Bros. start connecting their TV properties in the same universe. Even if I oppose the connecting of TV and film (aside from Batman properties), there’s nothing wrong from connecting all the TV shows together like what they’ve begun to do with the Flash and Green Arrow; as long as it’s independent of film. As long as these shows aren’t strictly on CW and CW’s budget, we’re golden. In this way, Hourman can draw on other character’s supporting characters.
Anyway, I think DC is generally on the right path in its DC television properties. They should take their minor characters (like C and D-list characters…though if the right B-list characters like Green Arrow comes along…) and give them more exposure on television. The following is a list of other DC properties that I feel deserves TV exposure:
- The Question (Vic Sage)
- Captain Marvel
- Checkmate
- Jonah Hex
- Grifter
Special mentions to Lobo and Animal Man. While I definitely think both are great characters with potential, I’m just not sure Lobo can be done justice with a TV budget and Animal Man can attract an audience with stories about animals.
Now, if you guys have been following my editorials, you’ll remember that I do not like saturating the public market with too many comic properties whether it is on film or TV. I feel like this is already happening on film and will actively hope it is not the case on TV. I am not saying all of these aforementioned DC properties should be a TV show. I’m simply saying if Warner Bros. is to continue churning out shows, those are some of whom I would like to see.
Well, that’s it. That’s the end of my last editorial. I realize this is probably a very controversial editorial—controversial meaning everybody hates it except me. Be gentle! Or not…I don’t care. I don’t generally read the comments on my editorials. But yeah…do comment and discuss amongst yourself.
Now as I promised earlier, I am releasing the time line I came up with for the release of the films in the DCCU:
Man of Steel 2/Superman vs Batman/Trinity – 2015
Wonder Woman – 2015
Justice League - 2016
Flash – 2016
GL 2: Hal Jordan – 2017
Batman: 2017
Man of Steel 3 – 2018
Wonder Woman 2 – 2018
GL: John Stewart - 2018
Flash 2 – 2019
GL: Kyle Rayner – 2019
GL: Guy Gardner – 2020
Justice League 2 - 2020
Man of Steel 4 – 2021
Wonder Woman 3 – 2021
Flash 3 – 2022
Justice League 3 - 2023