4 reasons the DCEU has not quite hit its potential

4 reasons the DCEU has not quite hit its potential

despite its many successes its fair to say that DCEU has huge potential that has not been fully tapped yet.Tony Tony discusses and analyses four reasons that the DCEU has not quite hit its full potential,

Editorial Opinion
By tonytony - Nov 25, 2017 11:11 PM EST
Filed Under: Marvel Studios

 

1. Snyder:

Image result for zack snyder

 
The single biggest reason the DCEU has struggled is because of the influence that Snyder had over it. 
For anyone who bothers to check you will find that Justice league is the 5th consecutive movie that Snyder has directed that critics are unhappy with, so his run of rotten scores stretches back a long way, I put the link below for anyone who cares to check
 
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/celebrity/zack_snyder/ 
 
To be fair, i felt that man of steel should have broken that streak as it was (in my opinion) a very good movie that deserved way more praise than it got.
 
But beyond the critical failings, the truly mindboggling stat is that Justice league is the 6th CONSECUTIVE BOX OFFICE UNDERPERFORMER from Snyder.
yes this is a run stretching back to watchmen. But yet somehow Zack Snyder has continued being given bigger and bigger budgets along with projects that most directors in Hollywood would kill for.

It is a really good example of failing upwards. I also put the link below for anyone who wants to check

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/people/chart/?view=Director&id=zacksnyder.htm 
 
in any other studio, this guy that makes movies that are not well liked and dont make the money they want would have been farmed out a long time ago. 
 
But even more Incredibly you still have people acting like the studio has been harsh to Snyder when all things considered I believe warner bros has actually indulged him and stuck with him and given him a way out that allows him to save face.  
 
For the record, i enjoyed man of steel, BVS and Justice league. I also think Snyder has some good ideas stylistically, but I believe in future he will be more useful to WB from behind the scenes in a production and maybe even concepts capacity.

Many of the worst aspects of the DCEU are directly from Snyder. The neck break in 'man of steel' came from Snyder and that despite the fact that Nolan advised against it. The casting of Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor is a Snyder thing too, shooting jimmy Olsen in the head, again Snyder's idea. 
Having Steppenwolf be pure CGI is Snyders idea too.

In fact if i am to believe recent rumours the real reason so much of Snyders Justice league was changed and Whedon was brought in was becaucse Zack snyders version of Justice league tested so poorly with Audience, WB should have delayed it but instead brought whedon in to salvage what he could. Again the fact that snyder got to waste another 200 million is staggering
 
One of the things that give me the most hope is that Snyder will be away from the DCEU and filmmakers who earn their spot will see their influence grow. This is the right way to do things. In the MCU the Russo have definitely been hitting it out of the park, and they have been rewarded with bigger projects. Someone like Patty Jenkins should be given a bigger project in my opinion like Man of steel two as she is the person who has delivered for the DCEU
 
 
 
2. Disney

Image result for Disney
The simple truth is that beyond DC and Marvel there is a bigger fight between Disney and Warner Bros stretching back many decades. Disney has been very aggressive in attacking the DCEU true many surrogates. IN many instances the onscreen talent like Robert Downey Junior, or Anthony Mackie or even Samuel Jackson has proactively attacked the DCEU and encouraged other people in the media to do so too.  There are actual videos of this you can find on youtube here is an example of one
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP6LkvXN5LY 
 
We know the MCU was pushing this proactively for a while it's just that more recently it's being caught on video. Ask yourself what impact comments like Mackie's would have to less prominent or successful media people than steve frosty? Over time could this also be why people in media appear to be more critical of DCEU movies? If they are being pressured by some people within the industry (like Mackie does in the video) to be more critical of the DCEU, what effect does that have? We cant say from here for sure, but you can not argue with the video.
 
also here's an article from back in 2008 where Robert Downey Jr attacks the dark knight
 
http://www.slashfilm.com/robert-downey-jr-disses-the-dark-knight-tells-dc-comics-to-fo/
 
The constant comparisons to the MCU also do not help, many people in the media feel like there are too many comic book movies and don't like how these movies dominate the box office. 
With the DCEU arriving they have used the MCU which is already established as a way to try to derail the DCEU by constantly saying "it's not the MCU" but in my opinion given time, the DCEU will be established. The point im making is that a big part of the  pushing of this narrative is from Disney because the MCU forms one of their three branches for their movie studios and the DCEU is the only serious threat and that partly explains why so many of their talent has been involved in attacks on the DCEU.
 
3. The Media
Image result for the media
The media has played a significant part in holding the DCEU back.
 
Ask yourself if you think its strange that people are saying Justice league will lose 100 million after one week?
If you do, then you haven't been paying attention to the last five years. 
 
Negative DCEU articles are the best way to get clicks, in many many entertainment websites the most read articles are the ones that have some sort of negative slant on the DCEU.  So if you wonder why the break-even points for every DCEU movies is discussed and even constantly revised upwards to maintain a narrative, the simple answer is clicks = money. Negative DCEU articles get clicks, Lots of em.
 
Well, you might say "that sounds ridiculous" why don't they do the same for the MCU? get twice as many clicks?"

Well put quite simply Disney is a vindictive studio and are well know for blackballing People who give them negative coverage or run negative stories on them. The other thing is part of the attractiveness of the Narrative on the DCEU is being able to use the MCU and Disney as a contrast.
 
Ask yourself where are all the break-even articles about the MCU films? Seriously where are they? Every DCEU movie gets one, even when suicide squad opened to over a 130 million, it got one and they used that as an excuse to diminish the movie's achievements.

Suicide squad was more profitable than winter soldier and even doctor strange and the only comic book movies in recent years more profitable than wonder woman is Iron man 3, age of Ultron and Deadpool so why is none of this done for any MCU movie?
if those dceu movies have similar budgets and are producing returns in line with MCU movies, why are they the only ones singled out for these articles?

 
But there is a knock on effect of these negative articles; it ultimately affects peoples decisions to see and support the DCEU
 
if you hear that a movie is doing badly and losing money unless you are a fan you might take it that it means that movie is bad and that maybe you should avoid it altogether.

It would be better for these articles to be done at the end of the films theatrical runbut it wont get as many clicks. 

the other thing about these articles is the impact it has on the creative process, Let me explain. If you are a shareholder or even an investor in one of the dceu movies and on the first day of the release you get an article saying how its an uphill battle for you to breakeven or not lose money. These sort of articles dont just appear in blogs anymore as the battle for clicks is quite intensive, when these stories make its way to the established outlets like The hollywood reporter or Variety where actual hollywood people read regularly then be sure changes will happen. All the attacks about WB being reactionary is wrong, the main focus should be on the media outlets whose hyperbole spooks investors into pressuring WB execs like tsujihara to change direction quickly. 

Do you think if Disney was getting these break-even articles after every movie that Feige would be given the level of control or freedom he has over the MCU now? Short answer is no!!
 
Speaking of Disney and the media another thing is that the "loose lips sink ships" slogan in Disney is a real thing! It's not a conspiracy theory; it is real! This is something that was rumored for a while and is portrayed as something that was done to keep spoilers from getting out, but over the last four years, in particular, Disney has cleverly leveraged this to make many of your favorite commentators "partners" In their distribution strategy. 
it went from "you are not allowed to say this about the movie", to  "you are allowed to say this" and today its "you should say this"

 
If you wonder why some media outlets act almost like shills for Disney, this is why, but the flipside is that some of them buy into the anti dceu mentality discussed in the previous points and espouse talking points that serve Disney. Its why so many reviews of disney movies almost reads like adverts for the movies with similar wording and talking points used through out

Its why every new Disney movie is their favorite ever...(Pixar movie, MCU movie, etc.) that is till a month after the movie comes out and then their real ratings on said movie becomes clear. Many of these outlets take it as a personal responsibility to promote some of the Disney movies
 
Dont take my word for it do some research yourself.
 
 
4. Toxic Fandom
Image result for toxic DCEU fanboys
This is the Bit that a little bit hard to write, there are elements of the dceu fandom that leave a lot to be desired, more specifically the parts of the fandom that are toxic are the Snyder fans, the ones who act like if you didn't like BVS then its because you were stupid or not intellectual enough to understand it. 

if you liked BVS and didn't think it was a "Master Piece" these same "Snyder fans" will attack you and call you stupid or a hater. It is true that some people in the Media are haters, there are many YouTubers and even mainstream outlets whose coverage and analysis of Snyder films is completely unprofessional, and that should be called out.

The idea of fake news in the media is something that DCEU fans had experience with well before it was mainstream. Remember that Pajiba article on wonder woman last year? I do! All these things can add up to make DCEU fans mad about a lot of things, but DCEU fans have to be better and more respectful. The many petitions being banded on Justice league releasing the Snyder cut is a really good example of some of the toxic activist voices being the loudest. 

 
I am of the view that many critics lash out at Snyder and the DCEU extra hard because they want to get back at some of the more toxic voices that troll them regularly. I think if we want to challenge the narrative then we should be raising our issues with these people respectfully or ignoring them completely
 
It is worth pointing out that there are many toxic marvel fans too it is especially bad because many of them run youtube channels and are in the media too. Heck Anthony Mackie behavior in that video above is just a glimpse into the behavior of some of these people. But just because the MCU fans are toxic does not mean we as DCEU fans should stoop to their level,  let's be clear this level of toxicity did not exist before the MCU, and the Marvel/ Disney has driven this nonsense far more than a few internet fanboys. But we should be better than them.

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CavalierTunes
CavalierTunes - 11/27/2017, 12:28 AM
While, I agree with some of your points, I disagree completely with your characterization of Disney as manipulating critics.

I read the Anthony Mackey interview as a joke, not as someone acting as an agent for Disney threatening a reviewer. It was nowhere near as bad as Jason Mamoa shouting "ƒυ¢₭ Marvel." Kevin Feige and others (recently Taika Waititi comes to mind), have complemented DC. Furthermore, Disney has an interest in seeing the DCEU succeed; a decline in DCEU ticket sales hurts superheroes movies across the board, and brings on an early onset of "superhero fatigue."
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 11/27/2017, 7:13 AM
Here we go again. Captain Conspiracy theories. Your toxic, yet you talk about others. Your also a hypocrite. You complain about others writing break even articles, when we can see you wrote one about Civil War. We can also see your long list of antimarvel biased articles. You have an obvious clear agenda.
tonytony
tonytony - 11/27/2017, 7:57 AM
@WYLEEJAY - ha. It does not change what I wrote about the frequency of breakeven articles appearing in major publications about the DCEU. But hey prove me wrong and post a couple of articles on breakeven on the last couple of mcu movies
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 11/27/2017, 8:09 AM
@tonytony - Because they all make bank, and Marvel is known for managing their budgets better. Good faith.
tonytony
tonytony - 11/27/2017, 8:26 AM
@WYLEEJAY - in other words you can't find any.
Getting mad for pointing something out doesn't change that it's true.
Also as an example suicide squad opened higher than strange. Grossed more than strange and made more profit than strange. But yet despite squads lofty opening and leggy box office run it was still assaulted with those articles.
It's not good faith. It's click bait.
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 11/27/2017, 1:01 PM
@tonytony - and you pump out more anti marvel articles than I have ever seen anywhere else.
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 11/27/2017, 7:19 AM
And it's called good faith. Nolan had it. Snyder screwed up with Man of Steel. He lost that good faith making such a controversial movie. Ayer did the same thing. Snyder came back and did it again with BvS. I still have to see Justice League so I'll form my own opinion after that. I don't ride the coat tails of critics. I'm sure I'll love it. I loved every one but Man of Steel. That was just ok for me. Not as bad as some other bad CBM's. But when you make so many critical failures you lose good faith from the critics and general audience.
tonytony
tonytony - 11/27/2017, 7:55 AM
@WYLEEJAY - today is a special day because I agree with you. Also note I said I enjoyed those movies too. But he has lost my faith and many of my friends who are not comic book fans that didn't want to go to justice league made it clear it was because of BVS. You could say they lost faith in Snyder's movies. However I feel it is a more enjoyable and easier to watch movie than BVS
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 11/27/2017, 7:25 AM
Here's something else for your war on Marvel. You want to defend DC, oh the big bad actors make jokes boo boo DC is a victim. Imo, DC deserves it. I like them, but they deserve it. In Marvels early years DC held the distribution rights to Marvel comics. Meaning DC had control of who sold Marvel comics. And you know what they did? That's right, they blocked all of the biggest sellers from selling Marvels books. To try to put them out of business. That's as dirty as it gets. But because of Marvels popularity readers still found ways to get the books. And now they have one of the youngest, and most successful movie studios, and you just can't deal with that.
tonytony
tonytony - 11/27/2017, 7:50 AM
@WYLEEJAY - maybe you are right. But it doesn't change anything I've said
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 11/27/2017, 8:16 AM
@tonytony - It means Marvel was always the underdog, and a lot of people just can't deal with their success. They have to go out of their way to try to find ways to tear them down. Good luck with that.
Reporter
Reporter - 11/27/2017, 7:31 AM
@natebest

Troll/ Marvel vs DC FLAME ARTICLE
tonytony
tonytony - 11/27/2017, 7:49 AM
@Reporter - nope. It's an article on dc. Discussing dc, marvel, media and fans. You only want articles praising marvel.
Reporter
Reporter - 11/27/2017, 7:57 AM
@tonytony -

Yup. You done it before and have had past "articles" taken down before. Its up to Nate.
tonytony
tonytony - 11/27/2017, 9:19 AM
@Reporter - it's also not an article attacking marvel. I'm asking some pretty legit questions about the genre the media and the fans. Instead of complaining that it doesn't praise marvel join the conversation. You can't refute any of my points.
I'm sorry it's not a 5 reasons why the mcu is the greatest article. But there are hundreds of those here so no need to become insecure.
Reporter
Reporter - 11/27/2017, 10:36 AM
@tonytony -

I dont have to refute any points on a flame editorial. You're wrong.
Reporter
Reporter - 11/27/2017, 1:29 PM
@tonytony -

There are no legit questions in a flame article which you have done before and have gotten removed before.
FizzBall
FizzBall - 11/27/2017, 7:56 AM
While I agree with all your points, in my opinion, DCEU has not hit it out of the park yet. Man of Steel was something different (but it got critiqued for too much destruction). Batman V. Superman had two major super heroes duke it out first (then Marvel fast tracked a "town dispute" with not so Civil War). Suicide Squad did something nobody else did, made the bad guys the heroes (Disney could never think of this). And finally, again WB did something Marvel hardly never considered, Wonder Women when their two previous female led superhero movies were a bust.
Fanboys got to remember that the Disney/Marvel Studios formula is constantly repeated and getting lame. They are not hitting out of the park with the source material and also holding back other Marvel movies and comics ala South Park's Mickey Mouse. Marvel Studios may also be pulling at strings because their source material is getting thin.
I like the DCEU and what they have going for their production.
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 11/27/2017, 8:14 AM
@FizzBall - Catwoman. Need I say more. Lol
tonytony
tonytony - 11/27/2017, 10:00 AM
@FizzBall - dude i love the dceu but i disagree with your points about marvel. I think they are doing a good job. Civil war was good, so was doctor strange and I enjoyed thor ragnorok.
In fact the only MCU movies i havent enjoyed in recent years are the guardians of the galaxy movies and Ant man, but the rest over the last 4 yeas have been above average to good.

But to me in the last 4 years they have been pretty good.

I also disagree about DCEU not hitting it out of the park yet. To me wonder woman was a home run. Prior to the wonde woman movie i wasnt that big a fan of wonder woman but after that movie i can say i am a wonder woman fan true and true and think patty jenkins is a genius.
FizzBall
FizzBall - 11/27/2017, 10:25 AM
@WYLEEJAY - careful. Marvel still has B-league movies that went bust.
FizzBall
FizzBall - 11/27/2017, 11:55 AM
@tonytony - I have some love for the MCU (The Avengers, The Winter Soldier, GOTG and Thor Ragnarok) but I hope you are paying attention what is happening since the Disney acquisition.
The MCU is now a formula-driven and everything that is not MCU (DCEU and FOX-verse) is almost every time trashed by fanboys who don't know squat from the source material.
Civil War was like "disgruntled Captain America" who did not die and only fought 6 others. The rest of the MCU was not involved, nor the Masters of Evil. So it was meh.
I have high expectations for Black Panther and Thanos.
As for the DCEU, Wonder Woman was great except for the CGI in the final battle. I would have recommended to Patty Jenkins to use more practical effects in the final battle and Dr. Poison to have more cryptic scenes.
As for the rest of the DCEU, I can't wait for Darkseid, Brainaic, Elastic-Man and Justice League Dark.
The DCEU has a lot more in the tank and MCU may be running on some fumes (see RDJ's current salary).
Kyos
Kyos - 11/27/2017, 3:04 PM
You actually started out with some decent, honest analysis this time. But then everything fell back into the usual conspiracy theory blame game routine. Pity.
monsterswin
monsterswin - 11/28/2017, 7:21 AM
Not quite hit its potential? That's putting it mildly.
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