Musings about a Thor 3 storyline on Ragnarok

Musings about a Thor 3 storyline on Ragnarok

***warning: spoilers***
Thor2 pulled an Empire or should we write a Jotun strikes back moment. While the Thunderer is happily ensconced on Midgard having fun with the Avengers and wooing his scientific lady-love, Odin or rather one born to be king is ruling over Asgard. The collector has still five infinity stones to go while Thanos is ready to show real pain to real power. Where does this lead us to second-guess Thor3?

Editorial Opinion
By saintixe56 - Dec 26, 2013 04:12 AM EST
Filed Under: Thor
Source: http://www.comicbookmovie.com/

What Thor3 should be about is a fiercely debated issue. Names have been loudly voiced such as the Enchantress; another one with much more justification is Balder.

Balder in the Norse Myths is the one God whose death brings about Ragnarok: the one event which has major consequences on the Nine Realms. If fans and Marvel Towers want Thor3 to visit the Twilight of the Gods then Balder it must be.

What we have seen so far is the rather happy blending of certified Mythology characters such as Bor interacting with comics inventions like Malekith (albeit Dark Elves are certainly myths-canon). Thor1 was offering the same gambit.
Ragnarok with Balder could be visited and give us the best Magician Asgard has to offer: namely... (no, not Loki) ... Karnilla. Though just like Feige altered the original MCU version of a Loki adopted very officially by Odin, we could have Karnilla as the Norn Queen raising Balder as her son.

Why this twist? As Thor2 ends up with an officially proper dead Loki and Thor gallivanting on Earth, Odin or the individual posing as Odin is facing the dilemma experienced by countless mortal rulers: the first duty of the king is to beget a heir to his dynasty! Odin with one dead second son, a dead wife and Thor having sent his resignation about becoming king must remarry and get himself a heir (and I am quite sure Loki has not seem this coming as some of his best laid plans can be glaringly missing the fine details).

Loki might be keen on finding himself a queen though I suspect the kind of ladies he will be presented will be boringly demure (here place one comical interlude); more importantly he learns Odin and Frigga have had a child together and said son/brother is raised by Karnilla. It transpires that during the Jotun wars which oversaw his own adoption, the Norn Queen was Odin's ally and for some mysterious reasons, little Balder was handed to her as a thank you. Karnilla is powerful, reeks of magic while physically she is just like in the comics: raven hair, green eyes and prone to self-questioning.

Loki meets Balder and feels unreasonably just as jealous of Balder as he was of Thor. Yes, we may venture a safe guess on who was Loki's mother by now.

Odin in the meanwhile is finally able to break up the spell of Odin sleep he has been submitted to and gets free. Thor3 sees Thor leaving Earth, chasing up Loki, coming to terms that not only he has a half brother but he is not Frigga's son. Balder is important as his existence allows the sorting out of all the loose threads Thor '1 and 2' left lying around. It also is staged mainly on Asgard and can introduce not only Karnilla but Hela!

Jane, Darcy and the male double act 'my name is Ian' and Stonehenge Streaker Selvig provide all the comic relief needed... if only by Jane meeting her real prospective mother-in-law Jord.

At the end, the two good boys Thor and Balder go after Loki and yes again Loki is about to die or rather to be handed to Thanos by Karnilla when she at long last realizes Loki is her real son and hands Balder to Thanos or to Hela.

In short Odin has it: Thor to rule over Midgard but not Asgard, Loki to rule over not only Jotunheim but Nornheim but wants Asgard, Balder happy to rule over Asgard but hostage to the Queen of the Kingdom of Helheim!

Thor 3 ends up with the accepted beginning of the Twilight of the Gods: Loki imprisoned because he is responsible for what happened to Balder and/or maybe a prisoner of Thanos and Odin is really angry (well more that in Thor 2), Balder is in the hands of the Goddess of Death.

Odin is now minus two sons out of three. Only Loki can free Balder from Hela and Loki is prisoner in the hands of the Other (which comes to a big surprise to Odin and Thor who realize albeit too late that Loki was from the events of Avengers 1 a thrall of the Mad Titan. It does not imply Loki is innocent but it mitigates a lot of his actions.

End of Thor 3: the cliffhanger. Will Thor find a way to free Loki to free Balder as if he does not succeed Ragnarok will happen! And you can add a prophecy as how the world will end or be saved depending on three brothers who are not brothers...

Avengers3 will see the mightiest of Earth Heroes fighting of Thanos, Surtur etc... and could give us the bittersweet but funny twist of Loki fighting on the same side of the Avengers... Expect some frustrated Hawkeye, some snarky RDJ and Fury to be shown what real power is...

As you can see if this editorial ends up in some far-fetched theories/AU/fanfiction, the original questions remain adequate regardless od how you answer to them...

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NovaCorpsFan
NovaCorpsFan - 12/26/2013, 5:49 AM
Though this is a good write-up (and I'm annoyed I have to say this), it could certainly use some pictures to brighten things up a little.

I like what you're describing here and evidently, you know alot about the Thor universe.
texhog
texhog - 12/27/2013, 10:52 AM
boring!!!
texhog
texhog - 12/27/2013, 11:05 AM
if it was me, I would base Thor 3 on the "Wrecking Crew". Light hearted with some comic relief, concentrate on the best fight scenes ever to grace a super hero movie. Thor taking on 4 super bad guys that have power that is just barely a level below Thors own? They always give Thor a hell of a fight ( mainly because its 4 against 1) It could really show off Thors fighting skills and strength, which is something you really couldn't do against Thanos or some of the Cosmic baddies. You could then add some dramatic scenes leading up to the Infinity Gauntlet
texhog
texhog - 12/28/2013, 12:05 AM
I agree that they couldn't carry an entire movie. also Thor's mother is Gaea (also known as Mother Earth, Mother Nature etc. She sometimes appears as Jord and has many names and aliases. She is the life force of earth to put it simple. Very powerful which is why one day Thor's power will rival that of Odin. Karnilla is NOT Loki's mother ( I just am not a fan of making major changes) although she is in love with Balder. How about Thor 3 with the wrecking crew, Enchantress and Executioner, then finish with some Thanos. I just don't care for the Ragnarok story because It was reveled to be an ongoing cycle of life for the Asgardians. There have been several Ragnarok's so to me it doesn't mean anything. I would still enjoy your version but I don't think your average movie goer would understand it. I do think Balder should have been an important part of the Thor movies from the beginning
saintixe56
saintixe56 - 12/28/2013, 4:44 AM
@texhog

Ragnarok is a very important episode in the life of the Aesirs to give them their proper name and not Asgardians which is a Marvel thingy invention.
Twilight of the Gods is found all over the Norse sagas because do not forget that at the end of the day Marvel has no copyright on Asgard ; rather the other way around.
The myths existed prior to Stan Lee and will carry on existing after.

Branagh limited the presence of 'fake' Aesirs in Thor1; Taylor has done the same. Marvel very rightly IMHO walks on a very thin line as to be true to the original scripts: the Prose and Poetic Edda. Too much of Marvel demented universe would not play well on an audience which is - do not forget - mostly overseas. Americans may dig Marvel nonsense, overseas we have been raised firstly and mostly on learning about Thor and Odin through books and the real myths...

And I am happy to admit I am following MCU/MMU Thor to see what AU adventures he will live in the acceptation of an alternate universe. By which I am totally opposed to too many villains/heroes who are 100% MarvelVerse.

The defect with the Enchantress is that her story is not inclusive of Balder; Lee+Kirby have her linked to Balder.

Now, I will pin-point to you the glaring plot-hole which is enduring in the last 3 Thor/Loki MMU opus. We have Frigga possibly, possibly not as Thor Mother. For Loki. we know she was his 'true' yet non-biological mother. Unless Jotuns are hermaphrodites which they are not : one of Thor's wives is Jotun, Odin's mother is Jotun... Loki must have a mother somewhere.

This glaring missing piece of puzzle is of the essence of any decent soap opera. Loki like Oedipus has killed his father Laufey (I shall spare you the groan rising from the Norse community: Farbauti and Mrs Laufey are his parents) : who is Loki's mother? We know that MCU has given Thor Jord (Gaea is a Greek Earth Mother!), we know of Balder parentage. Karnilla who is a powerful sorceress would be ideal as a mother for Asgard sorcerer. And it would be quite a twist to have both children exchanged and fostered by a different set of parents. Beside, fostering each other kid was something done in the Dark Ages...

Now, this is admittedly my very own AU and Karnilla exchanging her 'foster/adopted' son Balder to save her 'real' son Loki would allow Marvel to end up with the premise of what is the Twilight of the Gods.

Balder is dead/prisoner of Thanos; in a cave lost to all, Loki is Odin's prisoner. Asgard readies itself for the onslaught of the armies of the dead. Hela has been denied Balder taken by Thanos and feels Asgard is responsible The nine realms are in danger of annihilation ... end of Thor 3.

Avengers 3: The action is transported to Earth. And you can get Dr Strange as introduced character!

I grant you Karnilla is a twist but so was a twist as Odin hiding to his sons Loki real origin: which is something which never happened in the comics!

We cannot have an avalanche of villains and new characters: Jord, Karnilla, Hela and Balder are plenty enough and you cannot deny that Norse myths certified Hela, Balder and Jord are quite interesting; Karnilla and Hela can be as ambiguous villains as Laufey, Malekith and Kurse were (note that the 2 dark elves can also be counted as Norse myths but for their name and private biographies) and you cannot deny that Hela can be pretty badass while Thanos and The Other can be very dangerous especially if you match them against... say Jane Foster and the Scientists Three.

Because this is what it is: we have Lady Sif and the Warriors Three versus Professor Foster and the Assistants Three: Erik, Darcy and Ian!

Hence the cliffhanger could include Sif and Jane also hostages of Thanos along Balder... Thor having to find, free Loki to fight Thanos because the only Aesir who knows Thanos is Loki... and Odin ... Odin who is more or less in the 2 Thor movies in Odin's sleep is again and only him knows where Loki is...
HankasaurusRex
HankasaurusRex - 12/29/2013, 9:12 PM
Very good, eh, shall I say "wish list?" But before this upcoming movie comes about, there should be a reworking of the Thor-Marvel mythos.

#1 If rumors are correct. Fox will do something with the Silver Surfer so that they won't have to surrender the rights to the character (unused protagonists revert back to Marvel, like Daredevil). Okay, then--Thor can be your quasi-Silver Surfer. Make the power of Mjolnir more "cosmic." Let it enable Goldilocks to do the things silver dome has done in the comics.

#2 Frigga was the gift to Odin from Thor's REAL MOM--Joro, or Fjorgyn. It's really complicated, but his mother wanted to be free, so her divorce present was her sister Frigga. Norse legend say that she wasn't as voluptuous as her sisiter, but Frigga was facially prettier (since she was in charge of the Spring). As was noted by comment-writer Texhog, Joro was Mother Earth.

Okay then, as Mommy's little rug-rat, why can't he strike the ground and summon volcanic eruptions maybe no bigger than a city block? He could strike again and cause a Tsunami. In short, as with point #1, stop downplaying the power of Mjolnir. Highlight Thor's duel heritage via his hammer.

#3. Count me with the crowd that isn't in Jane Foster's camp. We know that Sub-Mariner was going to be included in the Marvel Movie-verse, and then the idea was abandoned.

I ask why? If the fear is that he can't carry a solo movie then stick him along side of a more establish character. What am I getting at?


Namor, the Prince of Atlantis, is introduced in what manner you want and he charms Jane Foster. Thor and Namor duke it out, Jane says knock it off, you clowns. She decides that this whole hookup with a Norse deity is unnerving, or just dumb. She decides that a fellow mortal would be to her liking and wham-o. Marvel can continue using her character and Thor could press on to another love.

#4 For a guy that has fought for centuries, he sure is a chump. In the Avengers, when he first meets Hulk, he entraps Greenie's ONE arm with BOTH of his. This left him open to a punch from Hulk's free hand. In this last Thor flick, he is getting his butt handed to him by the bigger Elf-Warrior before Loki intervenes.... REALLY?!!

So who has been doing his brawling all these centuries? He is clearly an inexperienced fighter. GOOD GREIF-- make him float like a butterfly and sting like a bee. If he gets nailed, let it be by a lucky punch, or Thor WANTS to go punch for punch, or because his concentration was being divided.

I know I'm not in the "same flow" as the other posters, but.... If these 4 things are addressed by Marvel, I'd feel better about the next Thor movie.
texhog
texhog - 1/5/2014, 3:10 AM
I have been throwing different scenarios around and I have decided that for me what works best as a tie-in with the way Marvel is headed with other movies, is to just go ahead and do Thor 3 as the "Beta Ray Bill Saga!" I just think it would work and you could use the entire movie to do it and you could dang near go word for word from the comic storyline. Shield asks Thor to go into deep space and check out this alien ship headed for our solar system. The whole story would work in one movie and be very good.
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