ECHO Teaser Could Be Online VERY Soon - Here's What We're Likely To See

@tmp3 - The only truly mid project was Secret Invasion. Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk was divisive but a lot of folks liked those shows. Everything else has ranged from good to great. This is just the truth of the matter.

@Variant -

@Origame - It IS time to stop. It's time for you to stop complaining every day of your life. I think everyone here would greatly appreciate that.

@Origame - Hmm...let's see. Would I rather be a white knight or a whiney little twerp?

Dude, you really need to stop the whining every day. Who tf wants to be around that? You're the friend that people stop inviting over because you just bring the mood down. Do yourself a favor and find some damn positivity in your life. Jesus...

@Origame - I never said I didn't like it. I did like it. I just didn't love it as I thought I would. And I would consider it "mid" when it had the potential to be excellent.

I know your brain only works in binary fashion, but I'm able to think in more than just polar opposites. I'm also not a little bitch so I don't complain about everything that doesn't satisfy my every expectation. I know how to take the positives from something and just enjoy that and move on with my life.

And when "speaking your mind" is only ever in the form of bitching and moaning, I'd say that's a pathetic mind set to have and still much more inferior than being a "white knight", as you like to call it.

@Variant - you're the friend who corrects and nitpicks everything, also the one who gets ditched on prom night lol

@Variant - nice backpeddling. You said you didn't like it dude. Even specifically called it a disappointment. And you said this in response to the claim that you can't find anything negative about the mcu. So this backpeddling just shows how much of a fanboy you are. The only thing bad you can say about it is one of the shows was just ok 🤣

And again, I say plenty positive. You've deliberately ignored when I praised other movies (including in the mcu world don't act like I'm only targeting them).

@marvel72 - he's truly maidenless.

@KennKathleen - "The shows are not good". You do realize your personal opinion isn't somehow fact right? You do realize all the shows aside from Secret Invasion reviewed well in varying degrees right? Even She-Hulk.

As for Origame, you must be new here. I'm not defensive at all. All the dude ever does is whine and complain. It's like a goal or something to never skip a day of complaining. So this isn't even about a single post. And PS, you're siding with the guy that has a reputation here for being a racist. And the guy who tried to argue that catcalling isn't objectively bad. Lol. Not the dude I'd be siding with.

@bobevanz - Shows how much you know about me. And my friends. I don't nitpick anything because my friend group in real life doesn't fvcking complain like a bunch of losers. And I'll let you ask my wife about "being ditched on prom night". Lol. I assure you I have no problems in that department. Meanwhile, your buddy here tries to defend catcalling. I'm sure the ladies really love that quality in a boy.

@Variant @Origame

Mom. Dad. Why can’t you ever get along? 😭

@mountainman - mommy and daddy are getting a divorce

@KennKathleen - I actually see some glimpse of conversation here. And I'm happy to have it with you. So let's distinguish between this and what this other kid likes to do which is insufferably complain all the time.

I'm 41, bro. I grew up collecting comics, DC and Marvel, in the late 80s / early 90s. I'm a fan of the material, I'm a fan of the lore. This also means I grew up watching some REALLY mediocre CBMs back in the day. Most of which came from Fox. At the time, the X-Men films were cool because they were new and they brought them to life for the first time. Before that, all we had was the 90s cartoon...which to this day, I feel like, are the quintessential version of those characters. Fox DID NOT ultimately capture that tho. Instead we had Mystique eventually leading the team and Gambit nowhere to be found other than a glorified cameo in a spin off movie. THAT is what's truly garbage. Then this same studio makes the same storyline (Dark Phoenix Saga) TWICE... unforgivable. Not to mention the Apocalypse movie made about as much box office money as Ant-Man. If we're gonna talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly...Marvel Studios ain't on the negative end of that.

Is this to say they're perfect? No. I have my gripes all the same. But it's absolutely factual to say no one else is doing CBMs better. We are fvcking blessed to have a cohesive universe lasting over 15 years and counting. I will GLADLY take a Secret Invasion and an Ant-Man 3 to have what we have. At the end of the day, that's my entire point.

@Variant - 🙄😐... fair enough.


Since we're doing nerd stats, I'm 42, and I learned to read after watching Spider-Man get beat up by Dr.Octopus in a comic in the early-mid 80s. I fell in love with the symbiote suit way back when, and I have watched beautiful highs and lows in MARVEL, DC, Imagine, and a few other indies.

I believe the New Line "Blade" was a perfect example of what a studio could do with a comic property. Cgi aside, it still stands stronger than many films /TV from the past few years.


This begs the question: why???

Once we see what works, we should try increasing the longevity of that pattern, take calculated risks introducing new elements, and staying far from things that don't work.

MARVEL is increasingly being strangled by something far worse than our original fears upon buyout.

We saw the Fox move after the 96 edge of the skyscraper bankruptcy fears, and we enjoyed what X-Men brought to the table.

After seeing the aforementioned Blade, and being mesmerized by the Matrix, Fox had some tough competition.

Was the original X-Men great?

Heck no. However, it did offer our first on screen appearance of what we dreamt of seeing:

The recipe, good translation from comic to big screen. The secret ingredient:

FAMILIARITY

We all read the Wizard casting calls (right??? 🤨), and we had a general consensus of what we, the fans, wanted to see.

For the most part, they did a lot of things right.

X2 was top tier, X3 was a summary of DCEU's stumbling block of condensed catalog storytelling, and X-Men first class was mostly a redemption arc (except for how they did Darwin. Screw the entire movie for that alone!!).

Daredevil was a great tale of "never give up", which made me feel good, despite the silly school yard fight scene. I also enjoyed Evanescence. Screw you if you don't. Guilty pleasures². I digress...

Blade 2 is barely memorable to me, but I do enjoy when I do catch scenes in passing. Blade 3 was nonsense.

Spawn was also in the lane of guilty pleasure, and cgi had great and terrible moments between some Spawn like elements which made the movie a cult classic.

... Then along came a Spider-Man.

Rami and Co figured out a formula that made a precise stamp in what MARVEL wanted to display. Quirky, action inspired, feel good, dramas. Complete with classic damsel in distress³, and the hero overcoming adversity and betrayl to gain the morally appropriate victory.


DC came along with Batman Begins, and showed how the world could be displayed without the Quirky. It worked well.

The Heath became the Joker. TDK became the benchmark.

Iron Man popped up, and gave the impression of lesson learned on all angles. It has the daylight distinction, with diluted levels of quirky-ness, evolving quirky into quippy, and gave a solid story.

Heath died, Rises was salvaged by Banes presence, but the majority of the film felt lacking. We didn't learn from this at MARVEL 10 years later. Again, I digress.

IM2 was looking for legs, Captain America showed the power of an enduring will, and we got to see genuine efforts of comic translations in film.

That all ended with Infinity War pt 1.

Don't get me wrong- IM3 was stupid as shit for that fake Mandarin reveal, Thor felt like we can get through this, but it'll only get better, Darcy was lame, and we had acceptable bumps in the road, but nothing prior to Captain Marvel was too unforgiving.

CM dropped, and the idea that MARVEL would have the nerve to drop such a disingenuous bait switch was a 🚩.

Enter Endgame. We got hooked on nostalgia, fan lore, and callbacks that made us laugh cry and roar, to the point we were satisfied with what had become the greatest run in movie history.

Then came D+.

Some muthaphucka got through the door and decided success was nothing without inclusion.

Whoever signed on to this theory should get the pluck out of Hollywood, and never return.

I say all thar to say this:


BRING BACK OUR GENRE. I DON'T GO SEE A BOXING MATCH, AND GET OFFENDED WHEN SOMEONE BLEEDS.

NOR DO I LOOK AT THE RING GIRL AND SAY "YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIGHT TOO!!"

We want us to win. If you don't like how we play, go play something else!!! Imagine if I went into these inclusion "insist-ists", and demanded my desires.


Hey "Serena Williams" shouldn't hit the ball so hard over the net! It's not fair!!!

We came to WIN IN ENYERTAINMENT. I WANT TO SEE MARVEL MAKE THE FIRST DOUBLE-DIGIT BILLION DOLLAR FILM. PANDERING WON'T MAKE THAT HAPPEN. NOT FOR THE SAKE OF INCLUSUION ALONE.


As I sated earlier:

Our fear of family friendly was eventually seen and trumped, by inclusion...


This is too f$#ing long. If you get it, you get it.

@Variant - ...that's what you said today. Not back then when this conversation actually took place.

Also, stfu. This is definitely you being pro marvel and hating me saying anything negative. You're never there when I'm praising the mcu. You're never there when I'm talking about literally anything else. And it's always you saying "stop".

That's not civil discourse. Just accept I have a different opinion and either block me or don't engage.

@Variant - I haven’t read the entire thread and don’t plan to.

Yes we have different opinions at times.

I’ve worked very hard to fight with other users less on here even when I disagree.

But I’m not the comment police and don’t want to be. I tried to throw a joke out a bit ago to diffuse this, but I’m not getting dragged into your argument.

You guys could just end it or block each other. But i’m not tagging in.

@Origame - @Variant -

Here is my attempt at trying to see if you guys can wrap this up.

Some people like the current MCU. Some don’t. Yeah box office and viewership are down. But it probably isn’t “dead”.

There have been some “pandering” or “woke” choices made by Marvel and other studios. Sometimes these have been done at the expense of quality storytelling. Other times, it’s cool to get more types of people and heroes in there. Some people that complain about this are dumb and use dumb arguments. Some of them could even be racists, sexists and homophobes. But not everyone who dislikes this stuff is.

Either way, there is no one right answer to this stuff. It’s all subjective. If you like it, great watch it and enjoy it. Comments from people who don’t like it shouldn’t impact you. If you don’t like it, don’t watch it. Comments from people who like it shouldn’t impact you.

Just let’s keep the comments to the actual movies and shows and not about what each of us is saying. That’s some high school nonsense and I think a lot of us are much older than that.

@Origame - Hey you do you!

This is my official last comment in this thread. I’ve said what I need to say to both you and @Variant.

It’s Friday, it’s warmed up a bit out here in Colorado, and I have the day off work. I’m going to get a nice morning hike in with my dogs and go touch some grass.

@Origame - Dude. I do not care if you don't like Marvel. I call you out because you complain too much and don't know how to position your arguments like an adult with a sense of decency.

But hey, how about that Echo trailer?! Glad they didn't "stop". That shit looks amazing!