ECHO's Rotten Tomatoes Score Revealed As Critics Sound Off On Latest MCU Series

@TheLobster - yeah. It was pretty apparent it was bad when they released it all at once and had the review embargo end when it premiered.

Hopefully this is a wake up call for disney going into daredevil.

@Variant - yeah, they just happen to be testing it now with a series that had to go through massive reshoots when feige called it unwatchable and they only lifted the review embargo the day it released 🙄

Also, you saying "it's not good, but it's not bad" tells me it's garbage tier.

@Variant - 1) dude, you've lost all credibility on this matter. You are through and through a marvel fanboy. You even said it's not good, but not bad yet gave it an A- 🤣

2) yeah, I really didn't see all that many people actually want that. And no one was going "finally" when echo was announced as all at once. But when it comes to streaming series, the rule of thumb is if it's released all at once it's because they don't have faith in it and want people to stop talking about it quick. And you still haven't addressed the review embargo or the massive reshoots yet.

3) it's common sense based on their track record, the interviews, that terrible daredevil fight that "leaked", the review embargo, and again the series being released all at once.

@Variant - 1) "well it wasn't bad. Nothing mindblowing, but nowhere near bad".

And God forbid I assume you'd actually say something mildly negative about the mcu. 🙄

2) yes, and plenty of them have criticized the Netflix method, saying they lose interest after a while and individual episodes aren't as impactful as ones you can just sit on for a week. Not to mention even Netflix itself is going past the all at once model they started by releasing seasons in 2 part chunks.

And Netflix does it because that's the model they started. Despite everyone hoping on the streaming train, they also quickly abandoned the all at once model because weekly allows them to maintain online discourse for longer and insure people stay subscribed. Again, something even Netflix is realizing.

3) and if I saw it and said the same sh!t, you'd say I should just not watch it. There's literally no winning with you outside of just not saying anything negative. Which goes against what you argued before about the how I discuss this.

And no, it wasn't. That daredevil fight was so bad people were convinced it had to be a rehearsal take. Half the punches missed by like 2 whole feet 🤣

And dude, I've seen the shows. They're mostly garbage. Even disney themselves have admitted the quality was lacking. Iger has said the company, even naming marvel specifically, needs to focus on quality over quantity.

All you have are reviews, and this is after its been proven sites like rotten tomatoes have paid for positive reviews.

@Variant - you really would give this an A-? I mean it’s all subjective but I would give this a C-. It’s for sure a meandering story that really doesn’t do much with wild tonal changes and some of the worst editing seen in the MCU. It also continues to water down Kingpin. Even with a “mature” rating - they still can’t crack the brilliance Vincent gave during the Netflix era. Big sad.

To each their own though! I get roasted for loving BvS Ultimate Cut so no judgement on my end ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@cubrn - Exactly my thoughts. I even mentioned the pacing issues and @Origame can't wrap his head around how someone can like something but still have minor gripes.

And yes, the fight choreography was great!

@Origame - 1. And certainly you see where you misquoted me and how different that is than what I actually said. This is proof you have interpretation issues.

And yeah, it's also an issue that you can't fathom how someone can enjoy something and still give their honest feedback on the minor things that fell a little short. This is the department you fail miserably in. You seem to have one setting that's stuck on negative mode.

2. LOL!!! Now this is some top tier reaching. So you mean to tell me you're simultaneously holding the Daredevil Netflix shows so high in one argument and then contradicting that argument just to try and make a point in THIS argument?!...

This also doesn't align with "we're going to drop all episodes at once because we feel our show sucks." Netflix obviously didn't think that before dropping thousands of shows over years and years of streaming media. Your argument was dead on arrival and you're still trying to figure out a way to be right. LOL. This isn't free thinking, dude. This is just really bad thinking.

And something else -- "Despite everyone hoping on the streaming train, they also quickly abandoned the all at once model because weekly allows them to maintain online discourse for longer and insure people stay subscribed."

Netflix didn't start this. Nor did they quickly abandon it. Disney+ was one of the first -- if not, the first -- to go back to weekly release and the reason you gave is FROM Disney. This is because everyone was used to the binge method and it was strange Disney was going with the "old" model. And in order to make sense of it, they explained the statistics of it.

----------------------

https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/29/20831410/disney-plus-apple-hulu-netflix-binge-episodes-full-season-drop-vs-weekly-release-streaming-model

When Netflix started Beyoncéing its TV shows (releasing entire seasons at once, often with little or no warning), the streaming service reinvented how people consume TV. As Netflix chief content officer Ted Sarandos explained it in 2016, TV viewers were already moving away from an “appointment TV” model and toward saving up DVR’d episodes for binge viewing, so the service tried to keep up with the ways its customers wanted to consume content.

In subsequent years, streaming subscribers became accustomed to binging shows. But powerhouses like Disney, Apple, and Hulu are looking to change the game again by taking the opposite strategy with their streaming services. If Netflix turned patience into a forgotten virtue, its competitors are trying to bring it back.

At Disney’s biannual D23 Expo executives revealed that episodes on the upcoming Disney+ streaming service will follow a weekly release schedule. A show like the Marvel Cinematic Universe spinoff Loki, which is slated to run approximately six hours (likely meaning six episodes total) will come out over the course of six weeks. That’s similar to the way Hulu (which is also owned by Disney), Amazon, and HBO Now operate.

The weekly release model is a smart move for Disney — and potentially any new streaming service that’s initially focused on building a subscriber base, rather than servicing a demanding, preexisting one. Tying new content to beloved franchises, then doling it out a bit at a time is a way for Disney, in particular, to keep subscribers hooked. When Disney+ launches, people who want to watch all of Jon Favreau’s Star Wars series, The Mandalorian, will need to keep their subscriptions active for at least a couple of months. While cord-cutters routinely look for ways to dip in and out of new services, bingeing the content they care about, Disney is looking to keep its initial subscribers stable while adding more throughout the year.

----------------------

This is where you admit you're wrong.

3. You seem to have the winning part quite backwards. The way you win is not dedicating yourself to shit you clearly don't like. If you don't like anything the MCU is putting out, don't keep watching it. AND if you're not watching it because you don't like it, WHY in the WORLD are you so involved in talking about it?? Again this is NOT free thinking. This is just trolling at this point. Decent people don't belong to a community for the sole reason of talking shit. That's just miserable behavior.

So "winning" would be putting your time, energy, and effort into things you actually enjoy. OR finding the ability to give holistic feedback on MCU projects NOT JUST the negative things you want to put a magnifying glass on while ignoring everything else.

Conversely meaning, putting your time, energy, and effort into things you DON'T enjoy is losing.

4. "All you have are reviews, and this is after its been proven sites like rotten tomatoes have paid for positive reviews."

Again, wrong. I have consensus. And don't start with the conspiracy nonsense about paying for reviews. Do they also pay audiences en masse to skew the audience scores?... Oh let me guess...BOTS! Yes, every. excuse you can think of to make you feel like your negative disposition is shared by everyone else! Sorry dude, your opinion is in the minority. You seem to operate off of pure confirmation bias while ignoring what people with positive feedback have to offer. That's far from free thinking. That's shackled thinking.

@Variant - 1) no, that's you for choosing not to use the word good when you meant it was good. Ffs, if anything my original comment gave you credit you are actually capable of not liking an mcu project. My bad, fanboy 🤣

2) dude, this point was on releasing a series all at once vs weekly. This has nothing to do with specifically the daredevil Netflix show. Believe it or not, I'm capable of liking a project while still pointing out issues with the company. Something a fanboy like you clearly don't get. It's not an "all or nothing" thing with us.

Also, what do you mean I should admit I'm wrong? It literally says that it's a smart move to release it weekly for all the reasons I mentioned. And the people that had a problem with it were back in 2016 when Netflix was the only example. That was 8 years ago. Things have changed.

3) only problem is I do like the mcu. I'm passionate about it because I want it to be as good as it used to be. Just like so many here.

4) again, it's been confirmed they pay reviews. And after the captain marvel fiasco, there's no point in arguing they can be reliable with audience scores since they can just mass delete reviews they deem as "trolls".

4)

@Origame - I find it quite amusing that you can play victim of "harassment" yet call someone a fanboy / simp. Lol

But also, you don't get to dictate MY grading. Lol...that's just ridiculous. Especially considering that your consists of nothing but giving things Fs. You have no dynamic whatsoever. So here, let me help you understand a normal grading scale.

A+ - Excellent

A - Great

A- - Good

B+ - Pretty Good

B - Decent

B- - Decent with impactful flaws

C+ - Mediocre with some redeeming qualities

C - Mediocre

C- - Meh

D - Slug through just to get the story

F - Too bad to watch at all


Pretty standard and straightforward.

@Origame - 1. I LITERALLY said it was "good". What are you talking about?

And yeah, it's nice to be capable of liking something while also being able to pinpoint specific things that fell short for you. You should try it sometime.

2. You're back pedaling now. You said, "And Netflix does it because that's the model they started. Despite everyone hoping on the streaming train, they also quickly abandoned the all at once model because weekly allows them to maintain online discourse for longer and insure people stay subscribed."

(It's "ensure" btw.) Netflix didn't quickly abandon their own model. This is what you JUST said. Now you're saying they did it for 8 years. That's not quick. You seem to be trying to avoid giving credit to Disney for making a smart move.

And this still doesn't mean Echo was released all at once for some made-up "bad" reason. It was a super short show. It makes perfect sense to treat it more like a movie and let fans consume it in one or few sessions. But also, now that it's released we see the show wasn't bad at all. So that clearly wasn't the logic.

But again, this is where you'll try to argue that anything below an A is a failure. Lol.

3. Normal people don't commit themselves to hate-posting every article that comes out about something they "like". I like the MCU and capable of voicing what I don't like in a mature manner. I know better than to participate in this weird hate wagon that thinks completely flaming thing is productive or constructive in anyway.

For example, there's a scene in Echo that was pretty cringe and I had the immediate desire to somehow contact Marvel Studios to ask how they let that in to the final product. It was pretty creatively annoying. HOWEVER, it comprised a fraction of percent of the show in its entirety. So I have the sensibility to not give such a small part of the show disproportional weight in my overall assessment. That's called being fair and reasonable....

4. And do all the other review sites do this too? Because some other review sites have similar ratings...

But also, RT absolutely doesn't pay reviewers. SHOW ME WHERE THIS HAS BEEN CONFIRMED.

The closest thing to this was a company completely separate from RT paid unknown / low level critics to give certain reviews and submit them to RT. Meanwhile, RT has a department specifically for weeding this kind of stuff out. This is the same department that identified the trolls / bots that tried bombarding Capt Marvel with erroneous reviews. The effort to keep integrity goes both ways. But it would be utterly exaggerated to think they got rid of legitimate negative reviews. Because those do exist.

And this is where your constant negativity gets you in intellectual trouble. You always seem to jump to irrational or unfounded conclusions to align with your personal opinion. You have to be mature enough to accept that sometimes your opinion is just in the minority. And that's okay! Voice your opinion constructively and have some damn dialogue with people. You don't always have to approach things you don't like with such antagonism.

@Variant - 1) not to me, you didn't. Not until after my "misinterpretation".

2) I'm not backpeddling. As recently as stranger things season 4 they started splitting seasons in two parts for shows that are particularly successful. Sure, not every show is changing it. Hence why I said "starting to". But big shows like stranger things are abandoning the all at once format.

And echo isn't "super short". It's 5 episodes when the standard is 6. And it would've been 6 prior to the reshoots.

And again, it's not just the switch to all at once. You keep ignoring the review embargo and the massive reshoots because feige called this series "unwatchable".

3) ...again, I like the mcu. I don't like what it currently is and want it to change. Why aren't you getting this?

4) pretty much, since the reviewers are still the same.

And I've proven this to you numerous times. You just kept making excuses for why it doesn't matter.

And no, that was an agency hired by rotten tomatoes who paid them.

No, the integrity only goes one way.

Dude, you just admitted critics were being paid to post positive reviews. The only one being intellectually dishonest is you.

@Alucard28 - Absolutely do not listen to @McMurdo ...

TFaTWS was a good show and the reviews reflect this. To call it "unbelievably bad" is wildly dramatic and nonsensical. And one guy's personal opinion certainly shouldn't deter you from watching more MCU shows if you are curious about them.

Loki S1 & S2, Moon Knight, Hawkeye...all great shows.

@Alucard28 - That's fair. I think a lot of what Marvel Studios does ranges between OK and Excellent. And different people are going to land at different spots on that spectrum with how they personally receive them.