THE ACOLYTE Showrunner On Whether The Stranger Links To Darth Plagueis And Knights Of Ren Theories - SPOILERS

THE ACOLYTE Showrunner On Whether The Stranger Links To Darth Plagueis And Knights Of Ren Theories - SPOILERS

The Acolyte showrunner Leslye Headland has commented on whether The Stranger is linked to characters like Mother Koril and Darth Plagueis, and shares a pretty big hint about those Knights of Ren theories.

By JoshWilding - Jul 12, 2024 05:07 AM EST
Filed Under: Star Wars
Source: Nerdist (via SFFGazette.com)

This week's episode of The Acolyte may have essentially just retold the events of the third episode from the Jedi's perspective, but new comments from showrunner Leslye Headland suggest it sets the stage for the finale in a more significant way than first expected.

Fans were quick to point out that we didn't see Mother Koril die in "Choice" but does that mean she's in cahoots with The Stranger and potentially even his secret Sith Master? 

"No body, no death. That’s what I’ll say about that one," Headland told Nerdist (via SFFGazette.com). "[Koril and Qimir] do not know each other. But what I will say, as a tease, if we are able to explore this story more, her species will tell you a little bit about where she ends up."

That appears to be confirmation Koril returns to Dathomir, the home of the Nightsisters. With Grand Admiral Thrawn seemingly intent on resurrecting the planet's witches in Ahsoka, we do wonder whether she'll be among them as Lucasfilm looks to build a greater level of connectivity between its stories (an inevitability with Dave Filoni now overseeing things). 

Headland was also asked if we'll learn whether The Stranger is a true Sith in next week's finale. "What I will say is you don’t hear it from his mouth, but there are a couple small things that happen that intimate the answer to that question" (elsewhere in the interview, she confirmed season 2 hasn't been greenlit but said there are certain plot threads which are being saved for a potential follow-up).

As for those theories that he's the first Knight of Ren, the showrunner may have confirmed that is indeed the case with a surprisingly cagey response to the question. "It’s a really good theory," she said after a long pause. "What an interesting theory. What an amazing…that’s…wow. Wow wow."

If that does turn out to be what's happening in The Acolyte, then it raises some questions about this show's importance to the wider Star Wars Galaxy. Quizzed on whether the characters we see here ultimately lead to Darth Plagueis, Headland says, "If I continue to get to tell this story, I know how I would like that to play out. And I would say I think it’s pretty complicated and messy."

For the time being, she just wants to make sure fans don't miss what could be a crucial link between Osha and Mae's creation and whoever eventually uses the Force to bring Anakin Skywalker into the world (we've long believed Palpatine was responsible for doing so after his Master, the aforementioned Darth Plagueis, taught him how). 

"I would say that you might be missing the forest for the trees in starting an argument about that, instead of seeing that this is a power that could have existed in the world way before Anakin," she teased. "And that power was being pursued by someone. So it’s not an issue of 'paying attention to,' but I did hear about that, and I just think people aren’t taking into account the era that we’re in."

It's unclear whether The Stranger or another Sith is who she's referring to there, but there may be a good reason why the former is so interested in the twins we've recently learned are, in fact, one consciousness split into two bodies.

The season finale of The Acolyte drops next Tuesday. 

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ModHaterSLADE
ModHaterSLADE - 7/12/2024, 5:59 AM
The less this travesty has to do with a badass like Darth Plagueis the better.
Ghoul
Ghoul - 7/12/2024, 6:03 AM
So basically she’s not going to reveal anything about his being sith or not. Just leave vague clues for a second season that won’t happen? Even though this was a show about sith right? I hate that cop out bs where you introduce an element with no end in mind with the intention of filling in what seems to make sense when you get there. Maybe a slight idea where she hoped it would go but not delivering on that mystery after dropping the ball so hard on episode 7!? So much wasted potential and garbage around this show I genuinely tried to get into it but it’s just got too many flaws for me to care.
Clintthahamster
Clintthahamster - 7/12/2024, 7:37 AM
@Ghoul - No end in mind? She literally says that she has the next season planned out. That's the opposite of no end in mind.
MotherGooseUPus
MotherGooseUPus - 7/12/2024, 11:24 AM
@Ghoul - 10000000% Spot on

User Comment Image
Ghoul
Ghoul - 7/12/2024, 4:19 PM
@clintthahamster - that’s my problem with it, setting up just to bait a second season. A second wasn’t guaranteed and it was sold as a complete story I believe. That it wouldn’t require a second season to justify what’s in this one, only that it would leave some threads that could be picked up. I
Clintthahamster
Clintthahamster - 7/12/2024, 4:52 PM
@Ghoul - "only that it would leave some threads that could be picked up."

But how could you possibly have an opinion about how the story was concluded at the end of the first season? How could you have a problem with something that hasn't happened yet?
Ghoul
Ghoul - 7/12/2024, 6:47 PM
@clintthahamster - it says in the article they don’t reveal it, just that you might be able to pick up from some hints if they are sith or not basically (or knights of ren or whatever. ) so it sounds like her plan was to hope for a season 2. For me, if they don’t really get into Qimir and what he’s really up to and how he fits, than they misled on the marketing and the whole season was essentially a very minor mystery with a drawn out tease for further seasons like clickbait bs. Sold as a self contained sith/villain story and it’s been far from that. I’m curious how it wraps up I will agree I should reserve full judgment until I’ve seen it, But I have strong suspicion it won’t fix the story just tease another season which is poor writing for such a big aspect of the show. I don’t think it will wrap up enough in a satisfying way.
Clintthahamster
Clintthahamster - 7/12/2024, 9:16 PM
@Ghoul - It is so weird to feel so detached from so many of my fellow Star Wars fans. This show has been a [frick]in' hoot and a half. Great action, cool twists, some really great performances (and a couple of shitty ones, for sure.)

There are absolutely valid critiques around some of the writing, performances, pacing, it's not perfect, but I've had so much fun with this show. Much more than Ahsoka, which I was much more excited about. They're trying something new, and it's kinda landing, and that's cool as shit.
Ghoul
Ghoul - 7/13/2024, 12:36 AM
@clintthahamster - I won’t begrudge anyone their enjoyment I get how certain aspects appeal more to others than they did for me. There is some things to enjoy about it, I agree some of the action scenes were good, there are a few standout performances (although for me Mae/oshe actor just isn’t keeping up and isn’t portraying the twins well at all). But the problems I have really outweigh the positives for me. It’s a subjective issue anyway, but I do appreciate that you dig it.
Clintthahamster
Clintthahamster - 7/13/2024, 7:56 AM
@Ghoul - "It’s a subjective issue"

And that's what so many dudes on here miss again and again. I outgrew the idea that my tastes weren't objectively correct in my 20s. I hope these dudes get there someday.
Clintthahamster
Clintthahamster - 7/13/2024, 7:57 AM
@ghoul - *were objectively correct, rather.
Origame
Origame - 7/12/2024, 6:35 AM
Yeah second season ain't happening. In fact you just know disney is having talks about what to do now that the fans are leaving this franchise in droves after this show.

You ask me the only hope this franchise has is to wait 10 years before doing anything. Then do a kotor trilogy (with competent writers of course).
MarvelousMarty
MarvelousMarty - 7/12/2024, 7:11 AM
What an unbelievable mess Disney have made of Star Wars. I never, ever thought it would get this bad. Absolute garbage.
S8R8M
S8R8M - 7/12/2024, 7:18 AM
@MarvelousMarty - Makes the prequels look like a masterpiece.
BobbyDrake
BobbyDrake - 7/12/2024, 7:20 AM
Sounds like this show was just as bad as most expected from the start!!! Sounded like an interesting premise to start with, but once the creative team was announced and that horrible first trailer aired, most sane people could see where this junk was headed. Glad that I skipped this one altogether!!!! I’m honestly surprised how many people actually stuck with it throughout the season.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 7/12/2024, 10:15 AM
@BobbyDrake - It could have been great. But alas...it was ruined by hack writers and a director that has no idea what she's doing.
BobbyDrake
BobbyDrake - 7/12/2024, 12:08 PM
@CorndogBurglar - Definitely, a dark Star Wars series about the ancient Sith could have been so good. And definitely sounds like something that would appeal to me. They made it sound like that’s what this show was going to be about. But, this ain’t it Chief!!!
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 7/12/2024, 1:41 PM
@BobbyDrake - When they first announced thos show and started talking about it wasn't it presented as a show that would go into the origins of the Sith, or something like that? Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought that's what it was supposed to be about.
BobbyDrake
BobbyDrake - 7/12/2024, 2:34 PM
@CorndogBurglar -
!!!Long Post Alert!!!
Okay, so I just researched this and it seems that the confusion may have initially come from Dafne Keen. She said “I can tease that it’s a prequel. No I mean, you know it’s set one hundred years before the prequel movies, and it’s kind of an explanation of how the Sith infiltrated the Jedi. It’s a Sith led story, which has never been done before”. Her original comments are what I remember everyone saying the show was supposed to be about. I think maybe it’s because Josh kept writing that as a sort of synopsis for the show. However I just found some comments from headland about what she was interested in doing with the show from 3 years ago that sound more in line with what the show is actually about. So maybe everyone was just led astray unless I’m missing something. Her original comments about her idea for the show were this. “But I actually was very intrigued by why George Lucas had started us at that particular point(Phantom Menace). I kind of wondered, but what happened to lead up to this? That’s kind of where my ‘Star Wars’ fan brain went was like, ‘How did we get here?’ And why are the Jedi like this? When they are in power, why are they acting this way and how is it that they’re not having the reaction that you would think they would to Anakin’s presence and what Qui-Gon Jinn is saying about how passionately he feels about training him and bringing him into the fold. It’s like, even the discovery of Darth Maul is kind of met with this like, ‘Hm, interesting’ kind of feeling. So I just think for me, my brain has always buzzed around that area and wondered what’s going on here — or what has been going on here.” Would have been a much better show if it was actually about the Sith and how they infiltrated the Jedi Order though.
Clintthahamster
Clintthahamster - 7/12/2024, 4:21 PM
@BobbyDrake - Great find! I couldn't remember where I'd heard the Sith thing, but you're right, it was Keen, not Headland.
BobbyDrake
BobbyDrake - 7/12/2024, 4:52 PM
@clintthahamster - I also just found this quote from Headland though. "I really wanted to tell a story about the Sith," showrunner Headland told EW in a recent interview. "That was kind of my dream Star Wars idea. But it felt like the time period to do that in would be something pre-Phantom Menace. That seemed to be the most interesting trajectory for the Sith: How did the Sith go from the Rule of Two and being quote-unquote 'extinct' to Palpatine coming into power without the Jedi knowing about it?"
Clintthahamster
Clintthahamster - 7/12/2024, 4:57 PM
@BobbyDrake - I think that jibes with the other quote about wanting to explore how we got to Phantom Menace. Like, there is, in my opinion, zero chance that there isn't some connection with the Stranger and the Sith. A dude in a black cloak and a dark helmet with a red lightsaber who said "A Jedi like you would call me Sith." I think they're working toward it. Maybe she's just not coming at it from as academic a standpoint as a lot of deep-lore superfans would expect.
BobbyDrake
BobbyDrake - 7/12/2024, 5:01 PM
@CorndogBurglar - should have tagged you as well, but I found the quote from headland that I was remembering. It’s in my response to clint up above
BobbyDrake
BobbyDrake - 7/12/2024, 5:10 PM
@clintthahamster - to be fair I was today years old when I saw that original quote. And that’s just cause I dug it up from the bowels of the interwebz. The second quote was during the promotion tour and it’s what was repeated in several articles that I read in the past. That made it sound like it was a predominantly Sith story. And that’s not what this is. Unless she was planning on exploring that in future seasons that I doubt we’re going to get. Pretty sure she said something about not revealing much more about qimir. The only payoff is probably going to be the “twins” coming back together in the end. In any case the show sounds incredibly underwhelming and not what most were expecting to say the least.
Clintthahamster
Clintthahamster - 7/12/2024, 5:16 PM
@BobbyDrake - "In any case the show sounds incredibly underwhelming"

Oh, you haven't seen it? I've been enjoying it. It's not perfect, but it's fun, and twisty, and has some great action.

"That made it sound like it was a predominantly Sith story. And that’s not what this is."

I think this happens a lot around here: People read an article, make assumptions about what they think a creator means, and then get mad when the finished product isn't exactly what they'd imagined. For me, she "really wanted to tell a story about the Sith," and she delivered a season about how someone who will almost certainly turn out to be Sith gets inside the head of some young, force sensitive folks and turn them against the Jedi. That's a story about the Sith, IMO. Also, if the show gets renewed, the story's not over. No one knows what the last episode holds, much less a second season.
BobbyDrake
BobbyDrake - 7/12/2024, 5:51 PM
@clintthahamster - No I haven’t been watching. This is the first Star Wars show that I’ve skipped, but I haven’t been satisfied with quite a few of their more recent projects. I’ve literally seen everything else Star Wars related that exists though. I was taking a wait and see approach to this one and I’m glad that I did because nothing I’ve read so far has interested me. I’ve read all the recaps and everyone’s various reactions to everything though so I know the story. And based on the ratings and fan consensus I very seriously doubt it’s getting a second season. It still hasn’t been greenlit and that usually would have happened by now. But, yeah you’re right I read her quote about it being a show about the sith and thought that sounded really interesting and would be something that I would like. The fact that there’s only been one line about the fact that he may or may not be sith makes me think that they were being misleading in the promotion of the show. I’m leaning more towards him being Ren rather than a Sith judging by the musical cues and headlands reactions to being asked about it anyway. But unless the series finale totally redeems the show then this is a hard pass for me.
BobbyDrake
BobbyDrake - 7/12/2024, 5:56 PM
@clintthahamster - And just to clarify I’ve seen everything Star Wars related, but I haven’t read any of the EU stuff or comic books. Although I do know a fair bit of the lore incidentally
Clintthahamster
Clintthahamster - 7/12/2024, 9:13 PM
@BobbyDrake - "I was taking a wait and see approach to this one and I’m glad that I did because nothing I’ve read so far has interested me."

Man, I gotta say, the internet discourse around this show has been pretty [frick]ed. I'm a fan of 45 years (like my first memories are about Star Wars action figures and R2-D2 underoos) but not like a lore fundamentalist, and there's been nothing that's "bothered" me in the slightest. There are valid critiques around pacing, some writing, some questionable character choices, but, man, it's been a shitload of fun if you're not someone who takes Star Wars really seriously.
TheVisionary25
TheVisionary25 - 7/12/2024, 7:26 AM
I’m fully expecting not getting all the answers next week since Headland has said for awhile now that she has plans for more if that happens and that there’s atleast 4-5 plot threads from this season that can be followed up , 2 of which are I think Mother Koril and “Qimir’s” backstory.

Also I think it makes sense that thie power to create life via the force could have existed before Plagueis & Palpatine did it and that’s where the former might have learned it from rather then just pulling it out of his ass lol.

Anyway , I hope the season finale atleast is satisfying on its own as someone who has been liking the show so far!!.
Ghoul
Ghoul - 7/12/2024, 4:19 PM
@clintthahamster - that’s my problem with it, setting up just to bait a second season. A second wasn’t guaranteed and it was sold as a complete story I believe. That it wouldn’t require a second season to justify what’s in this one, only that it would leave some threads that could be picked up.
Clintthahamster
Clintthahamster - 7/12/2024, 4:23 PM
@Ghoul - We haven't seen the next episode yet. None of us know which storylines are tied up and which weren't.

Curious, though, did you have the same complaint about Ahsoka? That left multiple threads unresolved, clearly leading into a second season.
Clintthahamster
Clintthahamster - 7/12/2024, 7:38 AM
"This week's episode of The Acolyte may have essentially just retold the events of the third episode from the Jedi's perspective"

Philistines! I'm surrounded by philistines!
TheVisionary25
TheVisionary25 - 7/12/2024, 8:13 AM
@clintthahamster - it’s amazing that this type of storytelling is seemingly a new development for some people.
Clintthahamster
Clintthahamster - 7/12/2024, 8:27 AM
@TheVisionary25 - This morning, reading that line, I realized what may be the crux of a lot of the disagreements on here: I think of Star Wars, first and foremost, as cinema. Because of my age, but also my upbringing and my education, I was able to contextualize Star Wars in with the history of film, and studied Kurosawa and Leone and Tarkovsky and Kubrick. I don't look at Star Wars as a collection of lore and rules and absolutes, but as a mode of storytelling, almost a genre to itself.

And since Lucas relinquished control, it's become this sandbox, a tool kit for different storytellers to build unique stories. Some of it will work, some of it won't. Some will be perfection, some will be dreck, some will be a glorious mess (like this show, IMO.) But it's always exciting to see what a creator like Tony Gilroy or Leslye Headland or Deborah Chow or Jon Favreau will build in that world, whether it ends up working, or whether it hits the mark.

I honestly hope they bring in more divergent creatives, not falling back in line with a single mode of storytelling. What would David Cronenberg's Star Wars look like? What about Fede Alvarez? When are we getting an R-rated horror film set in Star Wars, or a buddy comedy? [frick] the fundamentalists and reactionaries. Let's get weird!
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