AVENGERS: ENDGAME Co-Director Joe Russo On Marvel Studios' Method: "There Isn't Really A Plan"

AVENGERS: ENDGAME Co-Director Joe Russo On Marvel Studios' Method: "There Isn't Really A Plan"

We all assume Marvel Studios has a well thought-out plan in place for the Marvel Cinematic Universe, but comments from Avengers: Endgame co-director Joe Russo suggest that may not be the case...

By MarkCassidy - Apr 05, 2022 08:04 AM EST
Filed Under: Avengers: Endgame

It's impossible to debate the success of The Marvel Cinematic Universe, which has managed to present long-form storytelling in a shared world at the highest level since 2008. There have been a few continuity issues over the years, but nothing too glaring, and it's always been generally assumed that Kevin Feige and co. have each phase mapped-out well ahead of time.

Of course, plans are constantly evolving, and Avengers: Endgame co-director Joe Russo has now pulled back the curtain a little on how the studio tends to operate.

“There isn't really a plan. There’s an idea, but you can’t have a plan if the movie you’re making tanks," admitted the filmmaker during a sit-down at the Sands International Film Festival (via Deadline). "There’s no plan after that. Right? So, it’s really about, as the movie succeeded, there was sort of an enthusiasm about well, what else could we do? And then that’s when new ideas would come out, And there was hopes. Oh, we hope one day that we can get to the story, if we keep doing this right maybe we could all get there, you know, like Infinity War and Endgame. But a lot of the stuff was made up in between the movies. And some of the best call forwards or callbacks were thought of after the fact.”

Though this may come as a surprise to some, this is pretty standard for any ongoing interconnected universe across all mediums, and all it really means is that Marvel Studios is willing to go with the flow to an extent and make changes to suit the story when necessary.

Russo went on to lay out an example of "happenstance" coming in to play for a major plot point in Captain America: Civil War.

"Like we didn’t have Civil War [broken down] and we didn’t know that by showing you the scene with Zola as this old Hydra villain in Winter Soldier… [and he’s] telling him about the Winter Soldier and there’s an image of Stark’s parents, right? He had them killed… And it’s implied that it’s connected. That was happenstance. Then, after the movie came out, and we had to make Civil War, we’re like, ‘Hey, that’s a crazy idea… that’s how Tony could get so angry at Cap that he’d want to kill him, is if Cap’s buddy had killed his parents.’"

What do you guys make of Russo's comments? Be sure to share your thoughts in the usual place.

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HAILHYDRA
HAILHYDRA - 4/5/2022, 8:01 AM
Wow. Much clickbait…
Origame
Origame - 4/5/2022, 8:56 AM
@HAILHYDRA - ...no. the title said exactly what was in the article. Wtf are you talking about?
HAILHYDRA
HAILHYDRA - 4/5/2022, 10:02 AM
@Origame - The bottom line of his interview was that Marvel doesn’t plan out every story detail years in advance, but they have a roadmap of where things are moving. Sure he said “There really isn’t a plan.” But there’s a huge difference between what Marvel Studios is doing and what Lucasfilm is doing. The headline suggests that Marvel has no plan at all.
bs77
bs77 - 4/5/2022, 10:12 AM
@HAILHYDRA - What I appreciate is that they just pile in the references to various comic stories, and then later on they can basically pick and choose which, if any they want to connect or explore. Every Marvel movie basically opens about a dozen new doors with every slight nod to a comic or character... think of how many easter eggs haven't been explored.
Origame
Origame - 4/5/2022, 10:20 AM
@HAILHYDRA - all it says in the headline is literally the line "there really isn't a plan". And the description adds context by stating the assumption of marvel having a well thought out plan isn't entirely true.

Also, you want this to be less clickbait by bringing up Lucasfilm, even though the statement mentions nothing about them?
Dope21
Dope21 - 4/5/2022, 10:24 AM
@Origame - "all it says in the headline is literally the line "there really isn't a plan". And that's exactly why he called it clickbait. Now youre getting it👍🏿
Origame
Origame - 4/5/2022, 10:39 AM
@Dope21 - so...he's saying exactly what Russo said? Not clickbait dude. Not even out of context, considering the description.
FinnishDude
FinnishDude - 4/5/2022, 8:05 AM
While this approach has lead to threads that didn't lead anywhere or were softly retconned later, it is ultimately for the better. Just look at how DCEU still hasn't recovered from starting out with Snyder's five movie plan only for the first two of those underperforming, with divisive receptions.
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 4/5/2022, 8:19 AM
@FinnishDude - DC is just doing a far worse job at adapting to changes in the outline they may or may not have. Do hope that after Flash there is gonna be something to work towards though
slickrickdesigns
slickrickdesigns - 4/5/2022, 8:11 AM
Sounds like some planning happened by Feige regardless of side plot points.
bobevanz
bobevanz - 4/5/2022, 8:11 AM
There is definitely some sort of plan mapped out, hell they start pre viz on scenes before the script is even finished, either way it's working. I'm still convinced that Endgame was peak cbm content, and they're slowly going down lol
Jeight8
Jeight8 - 4/5/2022, 8:15 AM
@bobevanz - only if you expect every event to be like endgame which is a wrong mindset.

They dont have to too themselves.
JonC
JonC - 4/5/2022, 11:32 AM
@bobevanz - They often do pre-viz to promote what they would "like to see"... then they see if the story can support it. Many times pre-viz ends up on the cutting room floor just like actual shot footage.
RegularPoochie
RegularPoochie - 4/6/2022, 4:51 AM
@bobevanz - did you even read what he said?

"There isn't really a plan. There’s an idea, but you can’t have a plan if the movie you’re making tanks,"

So they have mapped it out, but they change things if it doesn't work.
Jeight8
Jeight8 - 4/5/2022, 8:14 AM
He never said there isnt anything like a plan, he said there is an idea and the broad strokes of a path but marvle is flexible to change things around or incorporate ideas from creatives.

How is that any different that what we knew?
Origame
Origame - 4/5/2022, 9:13 AM
@Jeight8 - exact quote from the man, "there isn't really a plan. There's an idea but you can't have a plan if the movie you're making tanks".

And many people here were under the impression that the mcu has 20 years of projects mapped out. Yes, it's ridiculous to believe that's the case, but people definitely do believe this. Even claiming bvs ripped off civil war even though bvs was announced before Civil War and the Russo bros admitted civil war was only approved after the bvs announcement.
JonC
JonC - 4/5/2022, 11:33 AM
@Origame - no doubt Feige has 'plans' and also contingency plans and then also makes stuff up as they go.
Origame
Origame - 4/5/2022, 12:18 PM
@JonC - of course he does. That isn't in doubt here. It's the extent of it that's in question, and it's clearly not nearly as much as we've been led to believe.
ShimmyShimmyYA
ShimmyShimmyYA - 4/5/2022, 12:23 PM
@Origame - I’ve been trying to tell people this exact thing. Or like when they point out shit like Dr strange reference in TWS not realizing that was just a throwaway line and they later decided to do a movie
Origame
Origame - 4/5/2022, 12:31 PM
@ShimmyShimmyYA - yeah exactly. Honestly tws reference even seems strange (pun not intended) after Dr strange was released.
ShimmyShimmyYA
ShimmyShimmyYA - 4/5/2022, 4:05 PM
@Origame - it makes no sense unless hydra was really terrified of Dr strange being able to do a proper appendectomy
Origame
Origame - 4/5/2022, 6:13 PM
@ShimmyShimmyYA -
Tasmaniac
Tasmaniac - 4/5/2022, 8:15 AM
We’ll it’s pretty bloody obvious there’s been no plan after Endgame…
Origame
Origame - 4/5/2022, 8:58 AM
@Tasmaniac - what are you talking about? They clearly planned on having black widow die then release a solo movie from the very beginning.
TheWalkingCuban
TheWalkingCuban - 4/5/2022, 8:16 AM
No plan?!?!
TheWalkingCuban
TheWalkingCuban - 4/5/2022, 8:16 AM
And that’s why civil war is still my favorite MCU movie.
bkmeijer1
bkmeijer1 - 4/5/2022, 8:16 AM
Makes sense. I bet there is an outline somewhere on a board in the Marvel Studios office though.

Like with the multiverse, I think there was always the plan to introduce it somewhere around this time, but it wasn't really planned which show or movie would be the one to do it. Just happened so that Loki, Spider-Man and Doctor Strange stories aligned
528491
528491 - 4/5/2022, 8:22 AM
I think someone once described it as being more like Improv Comedy than a fully scripted masterplan. It's that idea of always having the "Yes And..." Improv mentality in your head and riffing on what went before.

As a result it gives you a good balance between creative freedom but still maintain some sense of continuity.
Odin
Odin - 4/5/2022, 8:24 AM
Twenty23Three
Twenty23Three - 4/5/2022, 8:24 AM
Of corse there isn’t a plan, it’s always been very clear that they’ve just thrown things at the wall and waiting to see what stuck. It why those of us who where kicking about when the first few Marvel movies came out found a lot of the marketing around Infinity War and Endgame hilarious
Razorface1
Razorface1 - 4/5/2022, 9:20 AM
@Twenty23Three - Just have to remember the statement that the post credits scene in Iron Man, the foundation for the whole MCU, was thrown in to see what happened.
Twenty23Three
Twenty23Three - 4/5/2022, 2:10 PM
@Razorface1 - exactly. Just gotta look at Thanos sending someone to get this cosmic cube…. With an infinity stone because apparently the cosmic cube is also an infinity stone. None of these things make the Marvel movies bad, despite some people getting bent out of shape when you mention it.
Deadinside
Deadinside - 4/5/2022, 8:48 AM
@TheHumanSpider2 - Oh, you saw that apology, as well...!
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