AVENGERS: ENDGAME Gets A Surprisingly Impassioned Defense From Singer And Talk Show Host Kelly Clarkson

AVENGERS: ENDGAME Gets A Surprisingly Impassioned Defense From Singer And Talk Show Host Kelly Clarkson

AVENGERS: ENDGAME Composer Alan Silvestri On Why The Portals Scene Has Had Such A Lasting Impact
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AVENGERS: ENDGAME Composer Alan Silvestri On Why The "Portals" Scene Has Had Such A Lasting Impact

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soberchimera - 9/6/2019, 5:37 AM
She's OP and she had shit to take care of in space, this has been established dozens of times.
regularmovieguy - 9/6/2019, 5:52 AM
Where was Goose?

Ha1frican - 9/6/2019, 6:36 AM
@regularmovieguy - what’s the life expectancy for a Flurken?
Mrcool210 - 9/6/2019, 6:01 AM
I know it's not intended this way, but it feels like she was just put in the film cause Feige demanded it be so. Cause aside from the stuff at the VERY end with the final fight she really didn't need to be in the movie at all. I really just hope Marvel find a way to make her character better cause as of two movies she's my least favorite marvel hero.

I don't dislike her, but she hasn't really earned her cocky attitude in my eyes yet. Especially in that scene in endgame Hopefully in CM 2 they will get writers and directors who will know how to make her more likeable.

Spock0Clock - 9/6/2019, 6:11 AM
@Mrcool210 - You don't "earn" a cocky attitude, you just have one. Part of Carol's character is that she's a bit of a loose cannon and has no problem letting her fists do the talking.

Funny out exactly the same character traits have made Wolverine a fan favorite, but when it's a surly stand-offish blonde with a chip on her shoulder, suddenly people find her "unlikable".

Spock0Clock - 9/6/2019, 6:24 AM
For the record, that's not me calling you a misogynist personally, or anything. Much more that we live in a culture where expectations for women's attitudes and men's attitudes are seen through different lenses and that we've all internalized it to some degree or another.
Radders - 9/6/2019, 6:31 AM
@Spock0Clock - The difference I'd say is that Wolverine has some charisma and charm, nothing to do with gender.
Radders - 9/6/2019, 6:37 AM
@Mrcool210 - To be honest I think she's superfluous at the end of the film too - she does nothing that other characters shouldn't be able to do - Thor can destroy ships as he did in Infinity War and they had Doctor Strange who was sidelined - nothing seemed to happen with that water spout! A post snap, gamma irradiated Hulk could have gone toe to toe with Thanos - and who wouldn't have liked to see him have that moment! She really serves no purpose in Endgame.
Origame - 9/6/2019, 6:05 AM
Im still firmly believing they cut her role shorter. You dont set a character up as being a main player then barely use her otherwise. She just wasn't as popular as they hoped.
Spock0Clock - 9/6/2019, 6:06 AM
No surprises here. Black Panther got a very minor role, too. Strange and Ant-Man bridge the G1/G2 divide a bit, and got a bit more to do, but there will be plenty of time for Carol and T'Challa to shine.
SpideyPuffsMJ - 9/6/2019, 6:08 AM
I've been putting off watching her solo at home all this time. I saw it once in the theatre. But I think if I watch it again I'm really gonna dislike it. It was meh the first time, I hope they change directors and don't use the same people just because it made money. Felt like the most generic vision-less Marvel movie since like Phase 1.
Heroic - 9/6/2019, 6:15 AM
How many more times will this be a topic for an article?
Imfunnyhow - 9/6/2019, 6:16 AM
(To me) most of her scenes felt forced. Her movie felt forced. Basically Marvel pandering to movements of the day. DC is doing the same as well with Wonder Woman but (to me) it is more enjoyable and easier to get behind and to celebrate because it was not as on the nose.
Scarilian - 9/6/2019, 6:28 AM
@Skennedy -
She kind of did that though... proving that Endgame was not good or satisfying storytelling.

She destroyed the main enemy ship, managed to get the Gauntlet through an entire army by herself and then proceeded to be able to go toe-to-toe with a complete Gauntlet wearing Thanos.
Imfunnyhow - 9/6/2019, 6:32 AM
@KingCipher -
Well if you think about it Wonder Woman is ahead. She was in BVS and had a solo flick and one in the tank ready to go. Harley just had a sharing role in SS. so far and working on another shared role. Diana has a leg up on her
Mrcool210 - 9/6/2019, 6:37 AM
@Spock0Clock - I understand that a character doesn't always necessarily "Earn" a cocky attitude. And I know other characters like Iron Man and wolverine have traits like that as well. However I guess the difference for me is that those characters have shown over their respective movies that they kind of have a reason to be as cocky as they are yet were still able to show scenes of vulnerability and being able to see them as more than a big gun essentially.

Carol has done so cool things sure. Her final fight in CM was cool and it was cool to see her take down thanos ship in endgame. But she hasn't really had a moment yet where she has shown that not only is she super duper powerful but she's also a person who can have an emotional moment like a moment of sadness or having some fun. (aside from one very brief scene in CM with her being sad after learning about the kree, but we needed more scenes like that).

It's similar to the Superman situation in Justice Leauge, I know a lot of people prefer him now but I preferred the vulnerable superman. And now in that movie he was just used as a deus ex machina to beat the villain, something Carol was in both the movies she's appeared in.

Give me scenes similar to the cave for Iron Man or that opening scene in the Forrest for logan in the wolverine And I'll probably end up liking Carol more.Cause I do like her movie, I like it's message about how humanity can be strong cause we can keep picking ourselves up. (Weirdly the same message as Green Lantern) But She does need to go that little extra mile.

I don't dislike her at the moment, but I'm really hoping that after CM 2. She'll be up there with some of my favorites.

Spock0Clock - 9/6/2019, 7:05 AM
@Mrcool210 - (I'm stealing that rainbow gif, by the way. It's mine now.)

I've compared Captain Marvel (the movie) to X-Men Origins: Wolverine before, because I think both movies are poorly-conceived, structurally-similar prequels that don't play to their main characters' strengths. Captain Marvel is a better movie in a lot of little ways and doesn't carry the baggage that Origins did of a character that had already been well-established, but they have similar issues.

So, I don't blame well-intentioned people for not being fully onboard the Carol train yet, honestly. There are some rough edges that need to be sanded off, and a scenes that crystallize her character more effectively, absolutely. But from my perspective the pieces are all there.
Spock0Clock - 9/6/2019, 7:10 AM
"and a need for future scenes that crystallize"
FireandBlood - 9/6/2019, 6:44 AM
The recently crowned CBM queen got as much time in the movie that was organically necessary.
OmegaDaGrodd - 9/6/2019, 6:46 AM
It amazes me that they seeded this big "save everything" narrative at the end of Infinity War, the end of Captain Marvel and the beginning of Endgame and basically used Carol and an entire year of build up to sucker punch you with Thanos destroying the stones.

Marvel's long game can be a little too transparent sometimes, but taken without that context it's [frick]ing crazy
Mrcool210 - 9/6/2019, 6:54 AM
@KingCipher - And those scenes you bring up are great. But aside from the sad scene she still has that "look at me I'm cocky" kind of attitude and look on her face. The scene in logan is him still being fully vulnerable, he's not acting like he's the coolest character in the room. Carol still kind of is with that smirk on her face in the dinner scene and the discussion with Fury.

But you are right there were scenes like that, and good ones, especially since when Carol and Fury were on screen together that was when the movie is at it's best. So I concede I made a mistake. My apologies.

Spock0Clock - 9/6/2019, 7:31 AM
@Mrcool210 - Keep in mind that Logan is the 7th major appearance of the actor in that role, and has the benefit of 20 years of emotional attachment and nostalgia, and it's a movie entirely built around revealing the previously-cocksure snarky Wolverine as a sad impotent man in decline. The movie was built up around that scene and theme. Those walls mean something when they come down because they've been up so long.

If Carol (or Logan) were broken down like this in their first appearance, it would have all the emotional impact of Thor 1 or Man of Steel (i.e. not much). Instead, we got to see how strong her walls really were. We got to see her toughness. So, in the future, if we see her truly vulnerable, it will mean more.

Captain Marvel (the movie)'s big emotional turn isn't ultimately about Carol's vulnerability (and that's one of the reasons why I don't think that scene posted above really works all that well), it's about her resilience and liberation. She's been manipulated and she gets revenge.

She's only a whole person again after this point. And there's some catharsis in smashing the faces of the people who abused her. That's one of the major differences between Captain Marvel (the movie) and X-Men Origins: this movie was a defining moment for Carol that will set the stage for her story going forward rather than bullet amnesia erasing any meaningful parts of it from his development as a character. In that respect, it works.

This is finally actually Carol Danvers. And it's the same Carol we get in Endgame, (and likely the one we'll see get torn down and reshaped by narrative forces in the future, because that's how these things tend to go).

knocturnalzen10 - 9/6/2019, 7:04 AM
@PlusUltra - "The recently crowned CBM queen"

you mean ticket sales not quality movie wise right ? because if not that would still go to WW at this point...
LongMayHeReign - 9/6/2019, 7:08 AM

So you're telling us that Marvel reworked their biggest film in little over 1 month because she wasn't popular enough?

If that was the case there would no doubt be noticeable holes where she would have been, there were literally no scenes in Endgame where she was needed and wasn't there.
FireandBlood - 9/6/2019, 7:12 AM
@knocturnalzen10 - The quality of both movies could be debated to the end of time because there isn’t a set way to measure quality, so it’s irrelevant. What can’t be debated is though is who is currently carrying the biggest female-led superhero franchise in the world on their shoulders, and it’s not Wonder Woman.
knocturnalzen10 - 9/6/2019, 7:30 AM
@PlusUltra - that isn't realistic as well . if we're looking at both companies .... there's a vast difference at this junction till DC gets it's act together ... i get you have a preference but the claiming biggest female lead film franchise is scaling something not balanced at all .... to say she's the CBM queen, she would need to have a better film in general than WW, outside of the continuity of MCU engine . she can't be the Queen CBM if she's pig-backing off a world trending franchise. WW did well right after that hot garbage they call BVS ....
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