Batman & Joker: The "Code" vs. The "Game"

Batman & Joker: The "Code" vs. The "Game"

I was unable to sleep last night, and for some reason I ended up thinking about this...

Editorial Opinion
By hawkngo - Jul 02, 2009 03:07 AM EST
Filed Under: Batman

Joker vs Batman.

We've seen it a bunch of times. Joker always gets a few hits on Batman but he's obviously not his physical equal. But think about it...Batman, almost always, BARELY is able to stop Joker's plans. Then he precedes to just pummel Joker and lock him up. Joker is smarter than Batman. If it wasn't for Batman's physical prowess, he'd lose. They're equals in the sense that they're a balance of good and evil, and that they're rivals, and even that their sanity scales are balanced (Batman is mostly sane, but a little insane obviously. Joker is mostly insane, but obviously sane enough to be a genius.) The only thing that separates Batman from Joker in their fights is his strength.

People always say stuff like "How could Joker ever take down *insert any hero with a superpower* if he has no superpowers to fight back with? He can't even take down Batman who is just a normal man." - Joker proves himself time and time again to be a total genius when it comes to his crimes. Granted some things are PIS but you know, that's always a factor once in a while.

Essentially, I'm thinking...Joker is actually better than Batman. The only two things that are stopping Joker from killing Bruce for good is the fact that Joker isn't as physically strong as Batman, and Joker doesn't want to end the game that they play.Joker is a genius, but I wouldn't say he is "smarter" than Batman. Let's say that they have a role reversal. Bruce's brain is in Joker's body and vice versa. Joker has everything Batman has: the weapons, the armor, the vehicles, the physiology. But Batman is such a genius that, if it was HIM that planned some sharp, convoluted plan, he'd immediately kill Joker. The reason Joker almost kills Batman so much is his spontaneity. He's got the craziest genius spontaneity ever. Still, rest assured, if Batman ever turned evil, he'd be even deadlier.People always say stuff like "How could Joker ever take down *insert any hero with a superpower* if he has no superpowers to fight back with? He can't even take down Batman who is just a normal man." - Joker proves himself time and time again to be a total genius when it comes to his crimes. Granted some things are PIS but you know, that's always a factor once in a while.Essentially, I'm thinking...Joker is actually better than Batman. The only two things that are stopping Joker from killing Bruce for good is the fact that Joker isn't as physically strong as Batman, and Joker doesn't want to end the game that they play. The Joker just like any other mastermind criminal gets underrated. People have this very silly arguement that because a villain has NO superpowers he/she can't be deadly. It's utter nonsense and rather weak to discredit a villain just because he lacks super powers. The Joker just like Lex Luthor prove that superpowers mean NOTHING when facing a brilliant mastermind villain.

Case in point? Go back and read Hush....remenber when Poison Ivy took control over Superman? that's right! It can happen...and Ivy is not as brilliant as The Joker.Batman limits himself by not using guns or any reasonably lethal weapon, and he doesn't kill. Batman probably would have killed Joker the first time they met if he carried a gun and had the desire to kill. So, it's not that Joker is better, it's just that he uses more deadly weapons.

Neither wants to kill the other though. Look at how easily Joker kills everyone else and how easily he's able to let his plans come to fruition. If he wants to kill someone - he does. He beat Jason Todd to death, killed Sarah Essen, and shot Barbara in the spine....for fun. Batman vs Joker is a GAME to him, and its like prolonging the inevitable. Physically, Batman is stronger than Joker in every way. He could kill him without a gun, but he chooses not to kill the Joker. Mentally, Joker has the ability to kill just about everybody he would think about, but its no fun if he just kills everyone. Why join a circus and do your act if nobody is going to see it? You can't boast afterwards. Joker thinks of a plan, kills a few people, then talks to his #1 fan - Batman. He explains every little detail, and gets exactly what he wants in return: respect. Batman never goes "Wow, Joker, you're a genius. You totally had me going." because he doesn't have to. The fact that Batman considers Joker such a threat tells him flat out that he's IT. Know what I mean? All the instances where its Batman vs Joker, its all a concocted plan in Joker's head. If he chooses to shut the game off, he'll do it...and the only way he can be stopped is if Batman was to kill him, which Joker knows will never happen, so that's like playing a game of checkers and having a specific "red's can't be kinged" rule. Joker controls the black and dances around the board having fun until he decides to move in, king himself (after all, he's the clown prince lol) and sweep the table.
But you never know. That's the thing with The Joker, you never know just what is going on inside his head, thus not knowing what he can/will come up with.
They should make like a 'what if' comic where Joker gets fed up of Batman foiling his plans and decides to end their game. I think in the end though Batman would come out the victor. The only way I see him causing alot of damage would be to hit Batman with so many things at once (not physically, but mentally or emotionally, throughout his personal life) so that it intern affects his Night Job. Sort of how they did with Hush. Something to make Bruce to tormented and caught up that he would be his normal self.

Could Joker do it? I'm not sure, I personally think Bruce would come out no matter what. But I'll tell you this, If anyone were to do it, and would follow through with it, it would more than likely be the Joker.It's kinda similar to the whole Superman vs Lex Luthor battle that has been continuing for decades now as well, isn't it? I find it remarkable that in both instances, Batman and Superman, their potentially most dangerous and lethal adversaries (their arch-enemies, if you will) are normal humans, though with intellect in the genius level.Which, again, proves that old adage, that man is the most dangerous predator there is. All you need, is a brain, the ability to make tools and a complete lack of scruples.That is, after all, why we rule the earth, and not grizzlies, or lions, or sharks: They are all faster, and stronger, with bigger claws, and in a stand up one-on-one fight, they would tear us to pieces and eat the remains, exactly as Superman and Batman would do to Luthor and the Joker.

But we never engage in one-on-one fights with grizzlies and lions and sharks, do we? No, we study them, then we lure them into a trap, and then we either kill them or keep them for experimental/entertainment purposes...I would argue the biggest liability for both Superman and Batman is their refusal to kill. If they had done the sensible thing, and had these multiple/serial killers executed ages ago, it would have much more sense, but now it is too late,Can you imagine the outcry if they decide to kill off Lex and the Joker once and for all? Nobody would believe it, anyway. Everybody would just wait for them to come back.Nah, my money is on the Joker, One day, he is gonna get bored of the game, and there will be no warning... In fact, Batman could kill??that is one of his most distinguishing characteristics. If he does ever kill anybody , in my opinion, one of several things would take place as well: First, he would have to change so much, change one of his most fundamental aspects so much, that he would just never be the same again. After all, where do you draw the line? (I think this is one of his argumets as well.See, according to several books I've read, and the opinions expressed therein, there is a fundamental difference between a killer and somebody who's not. Batman has a great regard for life, as is proved by his tenacity, his determination to survive.The Joker doesn't, He will kill you for no more than a whip, and make no mistake: Batman is still alive because of a whip. Because, as has been stated elsewhere, he has a great regard for Batman's intelligence, and regards him, in a twisted way, almost as a peer.In short, he finds him interesting. And therefore entertaining.But the Joker is crazy. And a lot of people tend to forget that, because he can be so charming.But here is another fundamental difference between Batman and the Joker: Besides the fact that Batman regards life as sacrosant, he is also one of the greatest detectives in the world. In fact, he is frequently compared to the great Holmes. Detective work, as you would know if you had spent as much time with Sherlock Holmes as I used to when I was a kid, is based on logic.And Batman, ultimately, is a logical creature. All his decisions, all his life, have been based on logic and great personal courage.The Joker is not logical. He is not predictable. He is not cute, or charming, or any of the other phallacies he have been lulling the entire world with let's not forget, if anybody understands the concept of PR, it's the Joker.He is a cold blooded, demented, sociopathic killer, and his obsession with the Bat, as everybody has speculated in the past, will eventually lead to the ultimate showdown.But Bruce Wayne, the toughest streetfighter in the world, will always have one weakness, one the Joker does not have: He has a conscience.The Joker? He is your worst nightmare - a fool with a gun.
Do I have a conclusion? Well, I have an argument. I believe that whoever decides to take that final step first will win the ultimate battle. It can be Batman, if he finally decided he has had enough, but I am sorry to say, I think he would hesitate, that one fatal instant too much. He has been living too long under his own strict moral codes, and we have seen how far the Joker has pushed him, and yet he never retaliated, beyond roughing him up a bit and then locking him up again.I think if
Batman indeed used a weapon he would be more Deadlier!!!!



Enjoy.


-HawknGo
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dogchasingcars
dogchasingcars - 7/2/2009, 6:49 AM
first holy shit lol

very intresting article though i think your repeated yourself aliitle too much i do agree with you joker is a very brilliant person i have just read DKR and i loved it espically the part where joker and batman go to fight to the death and bats paralizes him and then joker knowing the cops are coming twist his neck and kills himself to make it look as though batman killed him.
hawkngo
hawkngo - 7/2/2009, 9:12 AM
Yo kevin go Frick yourself. i can put this in the news if i want
AshleyWilliams
AshleyWilliams - 7/2/2009, 9:40 AM
batman is smarter than joker in everyway possible!
riddlemethis09
riddlemethis09 - 7/2/2009, 10:34 AM
1.I agree with you that the Joker has a mental advantage over Batman. But it is also not just that he has the mental advantage, it is because he extends his advantage by being one of the villians. he doesnt play by the rules and this allows him to take anything he wants to a whole new level.
2.It is not just Batman's gadgets and physical strength that give him an advantage. It is his duty to self-sacrifice and the want to save others. This gives him the mental drive to go in with no lethal weapons against a mad-man with a gun, take out the villian with his fists, and still not want to kill. He understands the line that is drawn to differ the villians from the heroes.
3. I have pondered this little idea of mine for a while and it does tie in with the concept of the Joker's intellect. As we all know, Batman drives around in a speeding vehicles, jumping upon rooftops, and attempting to save the world using regular strengths without killing a person. In reality, a man such as this can not exist. They will ne shunned as a vigilante and those in charge would realize that this vigilante must have a lot of money for all those fun toys. In a matter of months, the real life Batman would be sought out and jailed.
But now let's look at the Joker. He is cunning, carries a gun or knife, kills, and doesnt obey the rules. Prime example of such is the chase scene in The Dark Knight. The Joker and his men are able to thwart every attempt by the Police to keep Dent safe. Why is this? Because such things are run by protocol and guidelines. A few minutes of research could supply such a person with enough information to perform such a task as taking out a Police caravan.
In practicality, in theory, in reality, the Joker is stronger than the Batman. He is beyond just the comics. In real life, could someone become the Batman? No. In reall life could someone become the Joker? Yes. Simply break the rules and have no care for life, the job is yours.
Now that's a disturbing thought!
HUSoldier
HUSoldier - 7/2/2009, 11:31 AM
yeah man u need to sleep and then write. cause most of that was such a ramble that it was hard to figure out what u were saying
dogchasingcars
dogchasingcars - 7/2/2009, 11:35 AM
very intruging riddlemethis very intruging indeed
hawkngo
hawkngo - 7/2/2009, 11:55 AM
Alright, yes i should have slept but man this is a arugment. what if though? Yes i understand that this written with no spaces between for some of you. i did add pictures so that does help some you with those mental promblems, lol just kidding guys, thanks for the comments, shit rate it and tell me what ya'll think?
Tobuttica
Tobuttica - 7/2/2009, 1:12 PM
Good stuff, but you repeated a paragraph twice within the same paragraph.
Tobuttica
Tobuttica - 7/2/2009, 1:17 PM
Oh and KEVEN, I stand by my opinion even today that you and your negatve douchebaggy self needs to go f#$k yourself or get Bro Raped!


hawkngo
hawkngo - 7/2/2009, 1:17 PM
shit.....yea sleepless nights...trying to write a new one up. i'll be posting on the ed tab. thanks
TheMyth
TheMyth - 7/2/2009, 1:24 PM
Keven, quit being a douche just for the sake of it. It's funny in appropriate moments... this isn't one of them.
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 7/2/2009, 2:17 PM
You don't want to know what i think about when i cant sleep lol!!! ; D


An KEV @ I see your building that fan club heh heh! ; )
Stumblin
Stumblin - 7/2/2009, 2:46 PM
What the hell are you talking about? You repeated yourself so much that reading this made it nearly impossible to follow whatever thought you were trying to convey. Do yourself a favor, write it in Word or similar program, and re-read the god damn thing before posting. I had to stop reading it before my damn brain started leaking out of my ears.
THEHAWK
THEHAWK - 7/2/2009, 7:01 PM
Nice article. I honestly think that Bats and the Joker are evenly matched mentaly and at times physically. At times Joker is smarter, but because of his mental illness he can't keep a constant thought pattern, he can go from being a criminal mastermind to being a mad dog overnight.

And physically he has his own frantic fighting style that constantly changes, so a fighter can't adapt to it, that gives him an edge in combat. But again his personality can take him from a UFC fighter to a harmless clown.

I think one of my favorite scenes with him versus a hero was when he, Cheetah, Killer Frost and Lex fought Firestorm. Everyone else was getting the crap nocked out of them by Firestorm, and Joker just walks up to him and sprays him with 'Joker Venom' from a flower on his lapel, and takes Firestorm out.

Nice article though man, but you did repeat a bit there, but no harm no foul.

HAWK out.
Osiris
Osiris - 7/2/2009, 8:50 PM
I really liked the part where you made the chess analogy that was brilliant.

also @LEEE@ Kev has been making a fan club for quite some time now, I think every article someone new realizes how much of douche he is.
midnightexp26
midnightexp26 - 7/6/2009, 6:45 PM
I liked the article and I also can see where people are coming from regarding slowing down a bit b4 u post. Yet, I would never hate b/c u put urself out there and the point u made was very valid. It lead to some very interesting responses. I think the bottom line is the only reason Batman does not kill is because the comic would end if he didn't and he would basically be the Punisher. Think about it, frank castle is Bruce wayne w/o the money but still having enough resources to get the "tools" he needs for the job. He doesn't kill so the story can go on, whereas Frank Castle does what we all believe should be done to serial killer, crime lords, and to those who frequently are able to manipulate the system; he wipes off the face of the planet. They are still very similar, they both most likely could be diagnosed with OCD and PTSD if you used the DSM-IVTR, which is worsened with insomnia.

Joker is smarter than batman b/c he uses all his resources to get what he want, which is to do what he needs to to keep entertained. Whereas Batman is in some ways stupid, he only uses a limited portion of his resources except for when it come to keeping his super powered friends in check. If he used all his resources and intellect he would have wiped out most of the enemies in the DC universe and he probably would have put a puppet president into place so that he could control the world.
C4
C4 - 7/12/2009, 8:48 PM
joker is a victim of discrimenation who tried to become a hero only to have the the batman steal the spotlight.the killing joke is when the joker snaps his own neck in order to make bats look bad. if you ask us joker has the ability to resurect (biggest joke of all,dc heroes never kill) because he takes a likin an still tikin. allthough none of his creators will admit it. and thats tha fun
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