Is The Joker A Harmful Stereotype?

Is The Joker A Harmful Stereotype?

He is according to a certain Dr. Peter Byrne! Check out this article from Worst Previews...

By MarkCassidy - Aug 19, 2009 10:08 AM EST
Filed Under: Batman
Source: worstpreviews.com

An influential report cited that The Joker from "The Dark Knight" is an example that Hollywood portrays people with mental health problems as being evil.

Dr. Peter Byrne, a psychiatrist and film expert who wrote the report for the Time to Change campaign, states: "Mental health stereotypes have not changed over a century of cinema. If anything, the comedy is crueler and the deranged psycho killer even more demonic."

He continued: "Batman describes the Joker as a schizophrenic clown, and when the film's second hero Harvey Dent becomes Two-Face and embraces evil, the familiar stereotype of schizophrenia is activated. This is omnipresent in cinema misrepresentations – the psycho killer is immortal and sadistic, motivated by madness."

A YouGov survey found that almost 50% of the public have seen people with a mental illness acting violently in films. And almost half the people polled (44%) believe that people with a mental illness will act violently in real life.

"The Dark Knight" was not the only film mentioned. Dr. Byrne said "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" is an example of how movie stereotypes can last a generation. And that the comedy "Me, Myself, and Irene," starring Jim Carrey, "represented a new low in laughing at people with severe mental illness."

But he said that there are some exceptions – Daniel Craig's role in "Some Voices" and Russell Crowe's performance in "Beautiful Minds"- are more realistic portrayals of schizophrenia.

Well, its an interesting notion! I disagree with his condemnation of these characters for several reasons. First, he uses The Joker as his main example. The Joker is not even supposed to be mentally ill! That's the whole point. He is neither sane or insane, he just is! An agent of chaos. Second, I find it funny that he seems to take offense at all of the bad guys in movies being mentally ill. I mean it's not exactly sane, well adjusted members of society that are likely to engage in mass murder and carnage, now is it?

I understand his point in one sense. He does not want anyone coming away from these movies under the impression that all mentally ill people are potential super villains! But I think he fails to realize that any straight thinking person is going to see certain villains as being insane and not all insane people as villains.

This line does his argument no favors either..

"This is omnipresent in cinema misrepresentations – the psycho killer is immortal and sadistic, motivated by madness."

Yeah, I know. I always like my psycho killers motivated by kindness and understanding.

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THEHAWK
THEHAWK - 8/19/2009, 10:49 AM
How was One Flew Over a Cuckoo's Nest a harmful steryotype? It opened the public's eyes to the live's and living conditions of those afflicted with a mental ailment. Because of that film new regulations were made to protect mental patients from harm.

What next is he going to say that 'Rain Man' is derrogatory towards the mentally handicap?
Cook
Cook - 8/19/2009, 10:53 AM
Political correctness psycho babel. When will THIS kind of insanity end?
GUNSMITH
GUNSMITH - 8/19/2009, 10:55 AM
UHH I THOUGHT THE JOKER WAS COOL CHARACTER,I DONT LIKE BREAKING THINGS DOWN OR DISSECTING SOMETHING THAT IS ALREADY OBVIOUS,
MarkCassidy
MarkCassidy - 8/19/2009, 10:55 AM
Oh yeah i forgot to mention that! Cuckoos nest is probably my favorite movie. The people in the movie are nuts..they are in an asylum! Does this guy want people to think asylums are full of sane people??
Thatman12
Thatman12 - 8/19/2009, 10:55 AM
@THEHAWK
Hahahaha "This is omnipresent in cinema misrepresentations – the psycho killer is immortal and sadistic, motivated by madness." Dhhhhhhhh
ThisFan
ThisFan - 8/19/2009, 10:56 AM
Hes a character in a comic book/movie wtf. we dont need to know all this stuff about his psycho side. Its called entertainment why cant we just enjoy it for that.
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 8/19/2009, 11:02 AM
So's video games, tv and everything else lol! : D

The fact that JAPAN sh!t goes uncensored an they have a 99% FREE of CRIME rate says it all! ; )
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 8/19/2009, 11:03 AM
see, this ridiculous...completely ridiculous. the joker is ONE PERSON! and to sit here and act like there has never been someone with mental health issues who was totally psychotic is even more ridiculous. in fact, serial killers are pretty much known for having mental issues. this is rubbish, not once does anyone say anything even close to the joker representing ALL people with mental problems.
ironknight27
ironknight27 - 8/19/2009, 11:05 AM
Its just complaining for the sake of complaining. I wonder what his explaintion for the Son of Sam killer would be. True not all people with mental health issues are evil or are going to go on a killing spree but mental health illnesses can contribute to a person's behavior if a person is not being treated.
BubastisTheLynx
BubastisTheLynx - 8/19/2009, 11:05 AM
Psychopathy is not necesarily a mental health problem.
ironknight27
ironknight27 - 8/19/2009, 11:12 AM
That poll that is mentioned only shows that people will believe everything they see on television.
dizzle716
dizzle716 - 8/19/2009, 11:15 AM
It's all the same crap. Video games promote kids to perpetrate violent activities. Guns make criminals. What a load of crap. Just like it was said, most straight thinking people with any common sense can see the difference between cinema and real life.

And while not all mentally ill people are violent, the majority of violent people have some sort of mental illness. *cough* Ted Bundy *cough*

I hate all this Nanny crap that the "elite" think that they know what's right for the better of society and it's people. The problem is, that a lot of book smart people are just that and do not have the cognition to put their "good ideas" into a feasible action plan.
Superboy5
Superboy5 - 8/19/2009, 11:20 AM
Another thing to put the blam on.
WeaponX
WeaponX - 8/19/2009, 11:20 AM
I'd classify the joker as nuts but at the same time I don't use films and other forms of entertainment as a moral compass and a teacher of life lessons. Like the %44 of retards who believe the world operates just like in the movies.

One thing to note is that the movies he approves of like "A Beautiful Mind" the main character would still have spiraled deeper into a chaotic and delusional state if it weren't for the super heroic aid of the psychiatrist and the drugs given. Convenient. The movie paints his line of work as constructive and necessary.

He's just a bi-product of an overtly politically correct mind set that is so unchallenged in life they need to see more into what is shown and make a song and dance about it.


ironknight27
ironknight27 - 8/19/2009, 11:20 AM
dizzle716- Thats kind of what I was trying to say but you said it better.
MarkV
MarkV - 8/19/2009, 11:24 AM
"Did I ever tell you how I got these scars...?"
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 8/19/2009, 11:27 AM
the funny thing about this is, in the comics, joker's mental issues are on the ropes. there are characters in the comics that think the joker is totally sane, as he knows exactly what he's doing when he's doing it. its not a matter of not being able to control himself, he does what he likes to do, which is usually chaotic. but there ARE those characters that pull the joker's insanity into question...

which is also what draws batman's sanity into question, he's tried to stop being batman, but physically can't. so who's crazier??
mgalusick
mgalusick - 8/19/2009, 11:33 AM
Bruce Wayne is insane too. A cognitive predisposition towards fighting his own personal demons becomes an obsession that consumes his life. He suffers from Dissociative Identity Disorder as the Batman persona takes over more and more of his life leaving less and less room for Bruce himself. No one ever comments on that.
Rumblebeast
Rumblebeast - 8/19/2009, 11:51 AM
@Lee...ofcourse they would have a lower crime rate if its all free....hehehehe
@teabag...ya i think this so called Dr. of the head got some of that insanity wood too...
contrast
contrast - 8/19/2009, 11:51 AM
I wonder what this guy'd say if they made a Moon Knight movie...
StephenStrange
StephenStrange - 8/19/2009, 11:54 AM
The idea of a schizophrenic criminal master mind is pretty ludacrous anyway.
People who are afflicted with shizophrenia are at the terrible mercy of a disease that makes using their mind for anything other than supporting their delusions difficult if not impossible.
The majority of schizophrenics who recieve treatment act more like people with mental retardation, not the Joker.
Very passive on all the meds but still unable to avoid the demons in their heads, dragging themselves through the nightmare of life, barely able to function at all much less be high functioning like The Joker.
No, I reject the view of characters like Joker or another movie nutter that I loved: Hannibal Lecter can be classified as having any kind of schizo affective disorder. Nor does either of those display any of the manias that would recieve a diagnosis that was even somewhat related .
Pockets713
Pockets713 - 8/19/2009, 12:00 PM
I'm just sick and tired of people going on about how offended they are in every aspect of life. Nobody is ever satisfied. If you don't like something... don't participate. No matter what people do these days it's always "offending" someone. GET OVER YOURSELF! who the [frick] are you to tell me what I can and can't do just because it hurts your feelings. If people stopped taking themselves so seriously everyone would get along so much better... [frick]ing sticks and stones people! You learn this when you're 3 years old for god's sake.

Especially in movies... these characters aren't representing the entire population of whichever group they happen to be in, whether it be mentally ill, black, white, fat, whatever... it's one character. To suggest any different is to say you yourself aren't an individual but simply a drone of a certain group. Say some crazy white supremist kills a bunch of black people... terrible crime yes... but does that mean that ALL white people are terrible people? I think not!
StephenStrange
StephenStrange - 8/19/2009, 12:03 PM
Also I agree with Cook. PC rears it's ugly head yet again.
Shaman
Shaman - 8/19/2009, 12:07 PM
See now what he's doing is trying to make him self a name with psychological nonsense. He's got a degree that in my eye is worth toilet paper and he's flaunting it at all of us who didn't spend the better part of their lives in school. Basically he's trying to gain fame by passing himself off as smarter than the rest of society and he's using his toilet paper with shit smeared all over it to try and prove his opinion which co-incidentally by definition isn't represented by facts.

As Roar said, Joker was as sane as you or me. He just had a different perspective on things than we did. He showed us that morality in itself was a fabrication of our society and forced upon us to a point where perceiving any differently would be considered abnormal and consequently labelled as insane. He showed us what the North American society has been trying to do for ever which is to keep all their baby birds in their nest, not having them learn how to fly on the pathetic theory that nothing bad will happen that way. That's right doctor, go ahead and try as you might to keep the birds from flying over the coo coo's nest and the [frick] away from it! These doctors are all alike rushing to label everything different from their self established norm as insanity.

And in calling Joker and Two-Face a “misrepresentations”, he actually miss-perceived cinema's representation of the characters concepts which had NOTHING to do with "the psycho killer that is immortal and sadistic, motivated by madness." Chaos is a philosophy and it takes someone incredibly "SANE" to even perceive it. If he had ditched a few classes of psychology to go sit in a philosophy class, he could have learned a thing or two instead of being a text book lapdog.

Why so serious, doctor???
Stumblin
Stumblin - 8/19/2009, 12:07 PM
I like how they focused on Hollywood bringing the Joker to the public, when comics have been using psychopaths for crap tons of villains. This argument is retarded, why all of a sudden, "Oh no stereotype!" Just like the damn albino character in The Di Vinci Code, all the pasties were screaming about being stereotyped as evil and crap.

No, it's not stereotype, it's just a f^cking character get over yourselves and quit being so god damn politically correct!

By the way, ditto to Pockets713 rant as well.
CRITIC17
CRITIC17 - 8/19/2009, 12:08 PM
Hey guys!!!! Check out my CBM users cast in DC movies in FAn Fic!!!!
ComicChic
ComicChic - 8/19/2009, 12:11 PM
His logic is flawed. Yes not every mentally ill person is unstable and violent, but some are. You're not going to see well adjusted "Susie Homemaker" go off and start killing people, and if she does you can bet there would be an insanity plea in the works. By their very actions many criminals are shown to be mentally unwell. Some are just evil, but others have clearly snapped. This article makes me think "Poor, poor Charles Manson" (not!) good freaking grief.
Phinehas
Phinehas - 8/19/2009, 12:18 PM
Judging by the majority of the posts, it is evident that this guy is not speaking for us, nor does he think for us. Insane clowns must die.
Phinehas
Phinehas - 8/19/2009, 12:22 PM
He's a big poo poo head!
OptionFour
OptionFour - 8/19/2009, 12:27 PM
I'm sure someone already brought this up, I didn't have time to read all of the comments today.

But yeah, the Joker might be a little crazy. But I'd wager the man who wrote this theory is reversing cause and effect. They're not portraying him as a serial killer because he's mentally ill - they're portraying him as mentally ill because he's a serial killer, and you'd have to be.

Ironically, I'd also say that Batman has some heady issues, and is easily as 'ill' as the Joker. That's part of the fun dichotomy of their relationship.
AvengingAngel1022
AvengingAngel1022 - 8/19/2009, 12:33 PM
wow
StephenStrange
StephenStrange - 8/19/2009, 12:34 PM
@ Comic chic,

True. Personally I don't even believe in evil in the biblical sense. I think there are evil acts that are perpetrated by messed up people.
Whatever it is that we think of as being human evil is meaningless unless it's harmful to others. You can be a ego maniacal asshole and still be an upstanding citizen and no one will think of you as evil.
You can be a heartless cold blooded freak with zero empathy all you want, but until your doing something about it, it just doesn't matter.
seeqer
seeqer - 8/19/2009, 12:36 PM
(sigh) I hate psychotherapists. Has anyone ever noticed how similar the word "therapist" is to the words, "the rapist"? Most people going to a therapist in my opinion, will get exactly no benefit from it. Minus the drugs.
Shaman
Shaman - 8/19/2009, 12:39 PM
I agree wholeheartedly with Phinehas. He is a big poo poo head.
Phinehas
Phinehas - 8/19/2009, 12:41 PM
DarthMulder and seeqer:

I couldn't disagree more. This guy doesn't represent all psychiatrist/psychologist/therapists.
Evil begins in the heart. Your status amongst your peers or society as a whole is irrelevant. Evil, in a nutshell, is knowing to do good and not doing it. Not Ying and Yang where one cannot exist without the other.
THEPHOENIX
THEPHOENIX - 8/19/2009, 12:50 PM
This is a load of crap. The Joker is one character, he doesn't represnet everyone with mental problems. Just like Raymond Babbit doesn't represent all disabled people.

Its like me going out and slitting HAWK's throat just because he is a diluded self righteous piece of crap. I'm one person acting on my own, I don't represent all wives or women.
Shaman
Shaman - 8/19/2009, 12:56 PM
What a keeper HAWK :P
TheJester
TheJester - 8/19/2009, 1:08 PM
Forest.Gump.

That is all.
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