THE DARK KNIGHT Director Christopher Nolan Vetoed JOKER's Original Ending But Was Ignored For FOLIE À DEUX

THE DARK KNIGHT Director Christopher Nolan Vetoed JOKER's Original Ending But Was Ignored For FOLIE À DEUX

A new report reveals that The Dark Knight director Christopher Nolan stepped in to change Joker's ending in 2019 but, with him no longer at Warner Bros., he was ignored for Joker: Folie à Deux...

By JoshWilding - Oct 08, 2024 01:10 PM EST
Filed Under: Joker
Source: The Hollywood Reporter

Despite everything that's been going on with Joker: Folie à Deux this week, a case can easily be made for 2019's Joker being one of the best comic book movies ever made. 

It certainly left a lasting impression, anyway, with a nail-biting final act featuring Arthur Fleck becoming "Joker" and gunning down talk show host Murray Franklin. His actions inspired Gotham City's disenfranchised to rise up and riot, leading to the murders of Thomas and Martha Wayne. 

As for Arthur, he was freed from captivity and gleefully watched the chaos unfold while smearing the blood on his face into the shape of a smile (we'd later learn Joker was captured and sent to Arkham). 

There have been rumblings for years that original plans called for Arthur to use a knife to cut a smile across his face. Now, that's been confirmed by The Hollywood Reporter. Here's an excerpt from the trade's story:

"Some have noted the film is a very expensive punchline, a repudiation of the very audiences who showed up for the first film. Ironically, the ending of the film features a man carving a smile on his face (out of focus and slightly off camera)."

"According to one source, the original ending of the first movie featured Phoenix’s Joker carving his face in front of a crowd of his supporters. But The Dark Knight filmmaker Christopher Nolan killed that idea, as only his Joker (Heath Ledger) carved his face."

"But Nolan is no longer at the studio, and thus there was no resistance."

Regardless of whether you think Nolan was being reasonable with that demand, the fact he was able to change the ending of another filmmaker's movie doesn't sit quite right. Still, if Joker: Folie À Deux's final moments were meant to be a redo...well, it didn't quite land. 

As we're sure you're aware, [SPOILER WARNING] Arthur is stabbed and killed by a fellow inmate during the movie's closing moments. Laughing, that prisoner then cuts a smile in their face, with the insinuation being that they're The Joker. 

The fact Phillips planned that ending for Joker also casts doubt on his claims Arthur was never meant to hold that mantle. 

In our review of the movie, we concluded by saying, "Lady Gaga shines and Joaquin Phoenix brings more of the same to Joker: Folie à Deux, a wholly unnecessary sequel with no new ideas and nothing to say. It doesn’t work as a movie or a musical. What a waste of $200 million."

Joker: Folie À Deux finds Arthur Fleck institutionalized at Arkham awaiting trial for his crimes as Joker. While struggling with his dual identity, Arthur not only stumbles upon true love, but also finds the music that's always been inside him.

The sequel stars Joaquin Phoenix once again in his Oscar-winning dual role as Arthur Fleck/Joker, opposite Oscar-winner Lady Gaga (A Star Is Born). The movie also features Oscar nominees Brendan Gleeson (The Banshees of Inisherin) and Catherine Keener (Get Out), alongside Zazie Beetz, reprising her role from Joker.

Joker: Folie À Deux is now playing in theaters. 

JOKER: FOLIE À DEUX Actor Calls Sequel The Worst Film Ever Made
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JOKER: FOLIE À DEUX Actor Calls Sequel "The Worst Film Ever Made"

JOKER: FOLIE À DEUX - Warner Bros. Discovery CEO Acknowledges Sequel's Disappointing Box Office Performance
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IAmAHoot
IAmAHoot - 10/8/2024, 1:37 PM
The studio made the choice, not Nolan. They wanted him to keep making them money.
WhatIfRickJames
WhatIfRickJames - 10/8/2024, 1:37 PM
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MaxPaint
MaxPaint - 10/8/2024, 1:39 PM
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SATW42
SATW42 - 10/8/2024, 1:39 PM
I mean, the headline is slightly misleading. He wasn't ignored, because he didn't offer input, because he's not with Warner Bros. anymore.
Fogs
Fogs - 10/8/2024, 1:42 PM
"2019's Joker being one of the best comic book movies ever made"


NAH.
BIGBMH
BIGBMH - 10/8/2024, 2:18 PM
@Fogs - Lol, beat me to the punch. It's certainly different and aspires to be high brow and substantive. But I don't rate an "ok" attempt at that over the many good comic book movies that exist and definitely don't put it in a tier with the great ones.

While I don't wish to broadly invalidate the opinions of anyone who likes the movie, this feels like one of those cases where just having the facade associated with "high art" has led many to ascribe to the film more depth than it has. Once you start to break it down, it's really not doing or saying much.

LibraMatter
LibraMatter - 10/8/2024, 4:42 PM
@BIGBMH - this review is a little much. Pretty nitpicky. The purpose of the social worker/therapist in the Joker is pretty much to echo how crappy things are. That’s pretty much it. She doesn’t have depth because that character isn’t someone the director wants you, as the audience member to grasp onto much. She’s in and out. Like a NPC. The idea of suspension of disbelief comes to mind here. Movies aren’t reality, they mirror it somewhat but they will never be reality. Even documentaries are not exact reality. They are a created narrative by the director. So why poke at fictional stories because they aren’t? How can anyone enjoy any movie with the idea that things have to be exact reality?
Fogs
Fogs - 10/9/2024, 5:13 AM
@BIGBMH - "...having the facade associated with "high art" has led many to ascribe to the film more depth than it has."

That has to be the main point.
dagenspear
dagenspear - 10/9/2024, 12:33 PM
@Fogs - My opinion? The movie has a structure that's about how upper class society members can ignore the suffering of the lower class and mentally ill and how that can lead to anger and resentment and in the case of this movie, violent attacks against said upper class.

On top of that? I also think it's about how political movements can be ignited by non political actions. Arthur didn't know those guys he killed were rich and he doesn't care that they were, he killed most of them in self defense and murders the last guy out of revenge for attacking him. He murders his mother out of revenge. He murders the guy who gave him the guy out of revenge. And murders Murray out of revenge. Not because they're rich or powerful, but because he's angry at being mistreated. But his actions ignited the fire of this anti rich sentiment.

Arthur's character, I think is fairly straightforward. He resents his life, his place in it and how he's treated by most everyone, his coworker, boss, people on the street, eventually even the man he looks up to and his mother. On top of it, when you present the lack of attention in mental health assistance in regards to his suggested mental health issues, he lashes out in that resentment. And he's celebrated for that lashing out and he fuels his ego with that, in the idea that he's getting the attention he wants.
Fogs
Fogs - 10/9/2024, 1:16 PM
@dagenspear - Call me dumb if you will, but I failed to see your point.
dagenspear
dagenspear - 10/9/2024, 2:03 PM
@Fogs - Moreso debating against who you replied to, in regards to it not really saying much.
AllsGood
AllsGood - 10/8/2024, 1:42 PM
It's Official Joker: Folie à Deux is now the worse Comic Book Movie Ever.

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Steel86
Steel86 - 10/8/2024, 1:55 PM
@AllsGood - I'm sorry Morbius and Catwoman still exist.
TheJok3r
TheJok3r - 10/8/2024, 2:00 PM
@Steel86 - It's actually rated lower than both on Cinema score.
MyCoolYoung
MyCoolYoung - 10/8/2024, 2:39 PM
@TheJok3r - @Steel86

I think Steel is correct. Though morbius isn't the worst. Catwoman most certainly is and I wouldn't trust anyone who rates anything lower than that
kylo0607
kylo0607 - 10/8/2024, 2:39 PM
@Steel86 - I've unfortunately seen Joker 2 and it's worse than Catwoman and Morbius.

The latter 2 at least have some resemblance of fun.

Joker 2 is not only a bad film, it's a boring, dull and lifeless 2:30 hours of waste.

By far one of the worst films I've ever seen, not only as a CBM.

I hate AllsGood as much as every other guy here, but unfortunately he's right this time (happens 1 in a million lol).
ObserverIO
ObserverIO - 10/8/2024, 2:48 PM
@Steel86 - I would honestly rather watch Catwoman over Joker 2 any day of the week. It may be a bad film but it has a lot going for it over Joker 2. Like an actual plot for one. Structure. Character arcs.

Oh and it's not a [frick]ing mess. It's shit but it's not Joker 2 bad. That movie is a serious trainwreck.
TheNewYorker
TheNewYorker - 10/8/2024, 2:53 PM
@AllsGood - I agree.
TheNewYorker
TheNewYorker - 10/8/2024, 2:55 PM
@Steel86 - But did Morbius or Catwoman enrage you?
Steel86
Steel86 - 10/8/2024, 3:08 PM
@TheNewYorker - In fairness the only film that ever enraged me was MOS when Johnathan suggested Clark should've let a bus full of kids die.
SATW42
SATW42 - 10/8/2024, 1:43 PM
"But The Dark Knight filmmaker Christopher Nolan killed that idea, as only his Joker (Heath Ledger) carved his face."

Also, weird for Nolan to be so definitive like this.

So, that answers the question of how he got the scars than! Joker 2 is a success in that it answered something Nolan never intended to be answered because of a leaked behind the scenes executive conversation that probably never would've come out if this movie wasn't released.

Thanks Todd! And what an awful way for that mystery to be ruined.
Steel86
Steel86 - 10/8/2024, 1:58 PM
@SATW42 - I don't think we should take that quote as literal. Its a quote of a quote and he could've just meant his Joker had a carved face and he didn't want anyone to think Joaquin's Joker was pose to be Heath's
IAmAHoot
IAmAHoot - 10/8/2024, 1:59 PM
@SATW42 - If Nolan was the first to make Joker's smile using those cut scars, it's not that wierd. And this is one source that doesn't elaborate on how "Nolan killed" it.
SATW42
SATW42 - 10/8/2024, 2:16 PM
@IAmAHoot - "If Nolan was the first to make Joker's smile using those cut scars, it's not that wierd." I'm saying it's weird he definitively said " only my joker carved his face" because it answers the question
IAmAHoot
IAmAHoot - 10/8/2024, 2:21 PM
@SATW42 - We don't know that he said that, only that he vetoed the idea.
SATW42
SATW42 - 10/8/2024, 2:22 PM
@IAmAHoot - so, you're choosing to believe the notion that he vetoed the idea, but not the reasoning behind the veto?

Alright...
IAmAHoot
IAmAHoot - 10/8/2024, 2:30 PM
@SATW42 - Him saying he didn't like it doesn't inherently mean he said no you *can't* do it.
HashTagSwagg
HashTagSwagg - 10/8/2024, 1:52 PM
This never would have happened under Synder's rule.
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SummersClan
SummersClan - 10/8/2024, 2:56 PM
@HashTagSwagg - Snyder said he would’ve R word Batman if given the opportunity.
HashTagSwagg
HashTagSwagg - 10/8/2024, 3:12 PM
@SummersClan - User Comment Image
No no noo, That's Batman he was talking about, not The Joker, if you were a true fan of Marvel comics then you would know that Batman and Joker are 2 entirely different characters and that's a fact.
TheyDont
TheyDont - 10/8/2024, 3:57 PM
@SummersClan - R word? Rigger?
SummersClan
SummersClan - 10/8/2024, 8:59 PM
@HashTagSwagg - Can’t argue that.
harryba11zack
harryba11zack - 10/8/2024, 1:56 PM
give the Toddster a crack at superman next
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DrDReturns
DrDReturns - 10/9/2024, 12:42 AM
@harryba11zack - What is this?...
harryba11zack
harryba11zack - 10/9/2024, 6:27 AM
@DrDReturns - Superman Red & Blue Issue #1, sup gets raw dogged in a prison.
DrDReturns
DrDReturns - 10/10/2024, 12:36 AM
@harryba11zack - Unbelievable... That's just tasteless and inconsiderate of readers...

I don't know the author(s), but they are talentless hacks.
Malatrova15
Malatrova15 - 10/8/2024, 1:57 PM
Joker got jonkled
TheJok3r
TheJok3r - 10/8/2024, 2:02 PM
"Some have noted the film is a very expensive punchline, a repudiation of the very audiences who showed up for the first film."

The entertainment industry is the only industry that encourages going against customers. How they're still in business (especially WB), I'll never know.
ObserverIO
ObserverIO - 10/8/2024, 2:37 PM
@TheJok3r - On the last Joker article about Phillips ignoring Gunn's notes, you said:

"Do you really think Phillips would be able to pull that with someone like Nolan running things?"

Well, here's your answer I guess.
TheJok3r
TheJok3r - 10/8/2024, 2:41 PM
@ObserverIO - Nolan wasn't at WB when Joker 2 was being made.
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