Controversy Surrounds WOLVERINE's "Created By" Credit As An Editor Is Now Named Co-Creator

Controversy Surrounds WOLVERINE's "Created By" Credit As An Editor Is Now Named Co-Creator

A fresh controversy is swirling in the world of comic books today as former Marvel Comics editor-in-chief Roy Thomas has been officially added to the list of Wolverine's creators for Deadpool & Wolverine.

By JoshWilding - Apr 02, 2024 08:04 AM EST
Filed Under: Marvel Comics
Source: Forbes

Proper credit has long been a highly contested issue in the world of comic books, and it's now Wolverine at the centre of a dispute over who deserves those all-important "Created by..." acknowledgements. 

The hero first appeared in the pages of Incredible Hulk #180 in 1974, a comic written by Len Wein and illustrated by Herb Trimpe. John Romita, Sr. designed Weapon X's now-iconic costume, under the auspices of Marvel Comics editor-in-chief Roy Thomas.

Wein and Romita are typically credited as Wolverine's creators, though Trimpe and Thomas' involvement is also usually mentioned (as is the work of Chris Claremont, John Byrne, Frank Miller, and more, all of whom helped make Logan the character he is today).

Recently, it was revealed that Thomas' name has been officially added to Wolverine's creator credits, and it's not gone down well. 

Longtime comic book editor Bobbie Chase took to Facebook recently to say, "My friend and Len Wein's widow, Christine Valada, got a call from Marvel executive David Bogart, informing her that in the upcoming Wolverine & Deadpool movie (coming out this July), Roy Thomas will now be credited as the co-creator with Len Wein and John Romita Sr., and David said it’s a done deal."

"I was standing in Christine’s kitchen this past Sunday as she told me about the phone call. Of course Christine is seriously concerned about Len’s legacy. Len was profoundly important to the comic book industry, and that legacy is being changed for the worse, six years after his death."

Many comic book creatives have since chimed in, including an unhappy Rob Liefeld, prompting Thomas to make his position on the matter clear.

"This situation is unfortunate because I am only trying to finally get credit for something where the facts have been known for many years, and I’m being portrayed as a ghoul trying to rob the corpse of Len Wein for credit and money."

"First and foremost, this is not a financial issue. I’m not getting a penny, as far as I know, and it in no way takes away from whatever Len [Wein] and John [Romita]’s families may be getting, if anything," he explained. "I don’t know what their financial arrangement is with Marvel. I’m already getting money from my other contributions to Marvel; I don’t need Wolverine money, thank you very much."

Thomas would later add that, "I had four requirements for the character: that he be named 'Wolverine,' be Canadian, be fierce because wolverines are fierce creatures, and that he be short, because superheroes are usually tall."

"I could have assigned it to a different writer using my four parameters and John [Romita’s] design. Wolverine would have been something different because it wasn’t Len writing it, but I still would have been co-creator."

You can hear more from Thomas over at Forbes, but the main source of upset has been the prospect of an editor stepping in to take credit from the writing and art teams employed on a freelance basis.

Still, the former EIC makes an undeniably compelling case for why he should likely be billed alongside Wein and Romita as he clearly played a significant role in Wolverine's creation.

Stay tuned for updates. 

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Doomsday8888
Doomsday8888 - 4/2/2024, 9:06 AM
By that logic the one and only true creator should Claremont.

He basically made Wolverine...shit, the X-Men in genral who they are till this day and no one can deny that.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 4/2/2024, 9:09 AM
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marvel72
marvel72 - 4/2/2024, 9:16 AM
@Nomis929 - I want The Incredible Hulk #181 so badly, I could probably get it if I sold some of my other fairly big books like Deadpool, Gambit and Venom.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 4/2/2024, 9:32 AM
@marvel72 - Man that one of the BIG Purchases in comic book collecting. you looking at t least over 6,000 Dollars (USD) for just one in decent quality (5.5 or more) .
Clintthahamster
Clintthahamster - 4/2/2024, 9:41 AM
@Nomis929 - I had a copy, along with first appearances of Cable, Deadpool, and 10+ year runs of X-Men, X-Factor, New Mutants, GI Joe, and the first 20 issues or so of both Lee's X-Men and X-Force. Sold them all as part of two full long boxes at a Garage Sale for $40 in 1996, because I was "mature." Still kicking myself.
marvel72
marvel72 - 4/2/2024, 9:43 AM
@Nomis929 - I know man,I think if I ever came into loads of money I would get.

The Incredible Hulk 1 (any grade as long as looks good and is complete)

The Incredible Hulk #181 (first full Wolverine)

Amazing Fantasy #15 (any grade as long as its complete)

Fantastic Four #1
Fantastic Four #5
Fantastic Four #48
Fantastic Four #49
Fantastic Four #50

X-Men #1
Giant Size X-Men #1

The Avengers #1
Journey Into Mystery #83

But these are just dream books.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 4/2/2024, 9:56 AM
@Clintthahamster - Man, I know the feeling. I had the entire run of Gwen Stacy Death and first appearance of Mobius. Roy Thomas and Neal Adams X-Men. Clarimont and Dave Cockrum and eventually Byre/Ausrtin run on the Xmen. and many other that in Literaaly sold to a comic shop for basically nothing back in '89 whe I thought I had "outgrown" comics.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 4/2/2024, 10:29 AM
@marvel72 - My Dream comics for MARVEl comics would be

Fantastic Four # 48-50 (First Silver Surfer, Galactus)

Fantastic Four # 52 (First Black Panther)

Amazing Spider Man 101 (first Appearance of Morbius)

Amazing Spiderman #120-121 (Death of Gwen Stacy, which I had as a kid)

MARVEL PREMIERE #1 (First Appreance of WARLOCK) and Number # 15 (First Appearance oof Iron Fist)
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 4/2/2024, 10:30 AM
@marvel72 - Oh Yeah, and All the Original Issues of Stan Lee And John Busceme SILVER SURFER run in latee '60s..
marvel72
marvel72 - 4/2/2024, 10:53 AM
@Nomis929 - At least some of yours are achievable, like some of mine but I have some big issues I want but don't think I'll ever get.

On Ebay there is a copy of The Incredible Hulk #1 CGC 4.0 for $24,000 and 0.5 for $7,500.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 4/2/2024, 11:01 AM
@marvel72 - Yeah, you are "Swingin' for the fences" as we say here in the States (It's a baseball reference meaning you are reachin' for some really unattainable goals), with some of your requests.
Clintthahamster
Clintthahamster - 4/2/2024, 12:07 PM
@Nomis929 - Damn fools. I appreciate my parents giving me leeway and letting me make my own calls about that stuff, but I also kinda wish they'd said "No, don't sell that stuff, you will regret it. We will give you $50." I mean, we're talking $2000 worth of comics just based on cover prices.

I also sold both of my trombones that day, a decision I've regretted, but considerably less.
marvel72
marvel72 - 4/2/2024, 9:11 AM
Don't know the editor should be listed as creator,would you add the inker and colourist as well.

It should be Lein, Herb and Romita Sr.
Havenless
Havenless - 4/2/2024, 9:13 AM
@marvel72 - He was way more than the editor if he came up with his physical stature, personality, national origin, and name
marvel72
marvel72 - 4/2/2024, 9:18 AM
@Havenless - I get that but I see it as that the writer and artist are the ones that created the character.
Fogs
Fogs - 4/2/2024, 9:20 AM
@marvel72 - At first I 100% agree, only the writer and maybe the illustrator should be credited.

But to be honest we don't know how the brainstorm went, who suggested what... I don't think it's always that formulaic.
WeaponXCII
WeaponXCII - 4/2/2024, 9:57 AM
@marvel72 - Based on what I’ve learned after getting into doing this kind of art myself a little bit. The look of a comic book, and a character, of course, can differ significantly from inker to inker. And then of course, there are the creative decisions that go into color choice- one being how heroes are usually done in primaries, and villains are usually done in secondaries; that’s just off the top of my head, but there are definitely other examples of color symbolism. Both of them definitely have their creative fingerprints on the art.
marvel72
marvel72 - 4/2/2024, 10:56 AM
@WeaponXCII - When you explain it like that it makes sense.
Maybe everyone who worked on that particular issue should be credited.
ObserverIO
ObserverIO - 4/2/2024, 1:49 PM
@marvel72 - It's a slippery slope because you do get creative editors like Roy Thomas and Stan Lee, but then you get those who take pitches and just nod and give the writers the go-ahead. So if we give all editors credit then we're giving editors who had no role in the creation of characters credit too.

I think it should stay the way it is, just the writer and artist that debuted it and if another writer/artist created it but it debuted in someone else's book then credit those too.

Any other creatives involved should just remain trivia. Like Stan Lee's creative involvement in characters like Punisher, Shang Chi, etc. Or John Byrne and Jaime Hernandez' involvement in the creation of Carrie Kelley.
Just anecdotal shit for fans.

But when you talk about creator credits these days, you're also talking about money, which is why this is happening I think. It's a bad look for Thomas, but it's important to keep in mind that it's his manager that thinks this is a good idea.

I can only think of one case where the editor takes all the credit and glory for the creation of a character and that's Sana Amanat with Ms. Marvel. She basically just wanted a young muslim girl superhero and then the writer and artists (G. Willow Wilson, Jamie McKelvie and Adrian Alphona) actually came up with the character.
Reeds2Much
Reeds2Much - 4/2/2024, 9:11 AM
[Roy] Thomas would later add that, "I had four requirements for the character: that he be named 'Wolverine,' be Canadian, be fierce because wolverines are fierce creatures, and that he be short, because superheroes are usually tall."

I mean, that's more involvement than Bob Kane had in Batman's creation.
Fogs
Fogs - 4/2/2024, 9:22 AM
@Reeds2Much - Yeah, that's the point. That's also being part of creating a character, It's a collaborative process and sometimes more defining character traits can be stated by someone who's not necessarily the writer.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 4/2/2024, 9:38 AM
Adding an Editor, even one I ADMIRE like ROY THOMAS, to the list of A character's creators...I dont know.

Seems a bit dubious.
Apophis71
Apophis71 - 4/2/2024, 10:09 AM
@Nomis929 - True but then the old Marvel method it was oft the editor that first came up with the ideas and core concepts for characters and even entire story plots before handing it over to the artists and writers so can be a tad more ambiguous in practice.

Certainly some where it was the writer or artist who unprompted pitched the concept of a new character and allowed to run with it but not the case in all instances, just as sometimes the person who first came up with a relatively generic clone character lifted from other comics/literature/mythology maybe deserves less credit than a later writer who takes the character and turns it into a far better more unique/iconic/popular one.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 4/2/2024, 10:20 AM
@Apophis71 - I know what you mean, but it just seem like it's opening up a "pandora's box" of litigation if an editor and his imput can be considered part of a character's creators once the charcter has been shown ibn print or any medium.

I understand recognizing the influence theyt may had in establishing an character, but I'm not sure I'll go along with them being a creator.
Apophis71
Apophis71 - 4/2/2024, 11:00 AM
@Nomis929 - Oh I'm not saying who I would side with on any of all of that, the creative process can be convoluted and complex and oft can see all sides without any personal opinion which is most valid :D
marvel72
marvel72 - 4/2/2024, 11:01 AM
@Nomis929 - Look up FOOM Magazine #2,A fan sent in a character he had created called The Wolverine 1.5 years before Wolverine debut.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 4/2/2024, 11:13 AM
@marvel72 - Oh Really?!?! Wow, I never heard about this.

Do You Know if he ever tried to get recognititon for it?
marvel72
marvel72 - 4/2/2024, 11:18 AM
@Nomis929 - I don't know,its like the Spider-Man Black Costume, a fans idea, I they gave him like $150.
marvel72
marvel72 - 4/2/2024, 11:22 AM
@marvel72 - It was a fan contest, the Wolverine he created had a healing powers and a metal skeleton.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 4/2/2024, 11:24 AM
@marvel72 - Seems liek we have another conteneder for Wolverine's creator with some legitamite evidence.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 4/2/2024, 11:28 AM
@marvel72 - Oh my Starss and Garters ?!?!?!?!?!

User Comment Image
marvel72
marvel72 - 4/2/2024, 12:12 PM
@Nomis929 - I can't seem to be able to post pictures, I copy the link and that's all that is shown, no image.
Nomis929
Nomis929 - 4/2/2024, 1:06 PM
@marvel72 - Hmmm, I don't know, i just post the link on here and it shows.

Maybe clear your caches?
marvel72
marvel72 - 4/2/2024, 2:24 PM
@Nomis929 - I can post videos from YouTube but images.
WeaponXCII
WeaponXCII - 4/2/2024, 9:47 AM
I thought that he already was….
PartyKiller
PartyKiller - 4/2/2024, 10:24 AM
Roy Thomas waited until the other creators were dead. Then he went Bob Kane.
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