DC V Marvel-Tonytony gives you the current state of affairs

DC V Marvel-Tonytony gives you the current state of affairs

Tonytony gives you the current state of affairs

Editorial Opinion
By tonytony - Nov 29, 2015 06:11 PM EST
Filed Under: Marvel Comics

I compared some of the key areas that most people look at between studios to give my take on the current state of affairs


Movies- 

Image result for bvs vs civil war


Marvel are top at the moment but this is more a case of by default rather than anything else. They have more movies than DC.
However DC have been Making superhero movies for a while and arguably showed the world the potential success of superhero movies through the superman movies with christopher reeves and the tim burton batman movies. 
Also we can in a way also credit Warner bros with kicking off the marvel cinematic universe when they made blade movie, this preceded all the marvel movies made by any other studios and one could argue was the inspiration for everything else that came after.

I would say that comparison between cinematic universes is way off simply because all that exists at this moment in time is DC 1 movie to marvels 13.  But even that one movie made about 670 mil, if you count the 200 mil in endorsement deals made before the release you can see why we are getting a follow up.   But the right time to compare cinematice Universes will be after say 4 movies.
It would have been unfair to compare Iron man 1 to furios 7 simply because furios 7 is the seventh movie in the franchise while Iron man 1 was the first.
However if you compared the first movie in the MCU iron man (580 mil) to the first movie in the DC cinematice universe man of steel (670mil) then man of steel is the more successful. I have no doubt that Batman v superman will build on that.


TV
Image result for dctv v marvel tv



Marvel TV
Agents of shield - which is on ABC (a much larger network than CW) averages 4 million viewers
Peggy carter - which is also on ABC had a finale of 4million viewers.
Daredevil & Jessica Jones- Are on Netflix but Netflix do not release viewing numbers or ratings so hard to tell how succesful they are, but the reception on both particularly daredevil is mostly positive.
 

DC TV-

Supergirl- By far the most watched comic book show on tv, average is 8 million viewers a week, despite the rampant sexism in the comic book world and the rush to undermine her show without watching it, it is more successful than agent carter and agents of shield put together. 

Gotham on fox averaged 5 million viewers in season 1. 


The flash - the big story of last year was how the flash came from nowhere to become the best comic book show on tv it averages 4 million viewers, the difference however is how the flash is on CW which is a much much much smaller network than ABC agents of shield

Arrow-  also on the much smaller CW averages between 3.5 and 4 million viewers a week

TV summary - You have to give it to DC- their shows are exceeding expectations and way more succesful than anything marvel is doing on TV


video games

Image result for arkham knight

Marvel games - have not had any smash hit games, there is the recent disney infinity games but the sales figures are hard to find. Howver most people on here would be hard pressed to name a successful (Or for that matter any) marvel video game.

DC games- have the arkham series and these are by far the biggest comic book based video game series ever made, also injustice gods among us became the first fighting game to go number 1 since mortal kombat.

In fact i believe earlier on in the year Warner bros games division was unveiled as the number 1 games company in the world, imagine if that was marvel, that would have been on every news station on earth.

Games summary- Dc beats marvel here, its actually got to the point were marvel have approached them to make the marvel lego games next year, if ever there was an endorsement or vindication of DC games success, thats one.


comics
Image result for marvel secret wars

Marvel  comics- currently leading the market by share, at the end of 2014 Marvel had 37% of the market (by unit), this will increase in 2015 with the addition of star wars. having said that there are no marvel titles in the top 10 last year that wasnt featured in a movie, you can infer that all the sales have been boosted due to movies and not neccesarily due to stoy. 

DC comics- In second place but not as far as some might think, at the end of 2014 DC comics had 32% of the market, but if you factor in that marvels sales had a big boost due to the cinematic universe and now DC are getting a cinematic universe by the end of next year i believe this will change

comics summary- marvel are leading here and this wont change next year, i will argue that dc are getting there sales due to story while marvel are getting sales due to hype from movies. but when DC starts it shared universe i expect the scales to tip back to what it was in 2012 and 2013


animated series-
Image result for dc animated movies


Marvel animated- Have the ultimate spiderman and avengers animated series, the reception of this hasnt been great and the general consensus is that these are distincly average. there animated movies have not been great either and seem really underinvested.


DC animated- Currently dont have anything running apart from teen titans go. However have made many landmark and timeless animated shows.  a legacy of terrific animated series like batman, justice league, young justice and have a terrific track record in making animated movies, some of my favourites include under the red hood, flashpoint, Gods and monsters, The Dark knight and so much more.

animated summary- DC animated is better, it has way more hits and way more outstanding shows.


In summary i would say these two companies are doing a good job, the mind boggles to what marvels position would be if as expected batman v superman is successful. They would have nothing to talk about with this potentially game changer with this in mind i can understand why marvel are a bit worried and constantly trying to attack WB.

For me personally i think its great that we have two companies that are in the fray. but regardless of what happens i think the winners are the fans.

let me know your thoughts below.
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Pedrito
Pedrito - 11/29/2015, 9:38 PM
Scorpion
If you take away the awful cloud monster, Green Lantern was a better movie than MOS.
Even with that cloud, it's about equally (un)watchable after a first viewing.

MOS made more money than Iron Man, but it wasn't more successful by any stretch of the imagination. IM turned the character into a household name. MOS is nowhere near as iconic as Superman '78 and it didn't do much for the character besides take away his soul. It also sucked as a movie.
Erik10101
Erik10101 - 11/29/2015, 10:40 PM
@tonytony

I respect your opinion and the fact that you made the effort to write an editorial, but a lot of your points have holes that make the bias readily apparent. Obviously you do make some valid points, but a lot of what you say is very misleading. I'll break these down point by point, and I'd love to hear your take in a civil manner.

Movies - The article's titled "the current state of affairs" i.e. MCU vs. DCEU, I would assume? Sure you're crediting Warner Bros for starting off the trend, but now they're just copying the trend of the MCU with DCEU, so not sure what you're getting at. MoS had higher box office receipts because it came out in 2013. Do you know how big the international box office has boomed since then? Have you even considered inflation? It's the reason we're getting a couple of billion-dollar films every year. If we just consider domestic box office receipts, Iron Man made 318 million (345 million in 2013) versus MoS making 291 million in 2013. Iron Man's budget? 140 million vs MoS's 225 million.
Erik10101
Erik10101 - 11/29/2015, 10:52 PM
TV - I see you're treating ratings as the biggest indicator of success. Again, you make some valid points, but you need to qualify your statements.

Supergirl is currently the most watched show on TV because it's only in its first season, and it's on CBS, the largest channel. Contrary to what you think, AoS had pretty much the exact same ratings for its first five episodes of Season 1. Heck, AoS's episode 5 had 7.39 million viewers vs. Supergirl's newest episode which "only" had 7.19.

You can't make a fair comparison until it's in its third season like Shield is. Pretty much every TV show drops a little in viewership every year.

"Arrow- also on the much smaller CW averages between 3.5 and 4 million viewers a week" - Have you seen the newest ratings? They have ranged from 2.3 to 2.67 mil.


There's no doubt Flash is doing the best of the network television shows for its great ratings on a small network, but you can't just pick and choose data that helps you from different sources.

And also, you can't just discount Daredevil and Jessica Jones from this "Television" debate with the sheer critical acclaim both have gotten. They and The Flash are easily in the "Top 3" in terms of quality to the general audience.
Erik10101
Erik10101 - 11/29/2015, 10:59 PM
Video Games - Sure, there's no debating DC has made better games. But "Warner Bros. Games Division" is not DC. Or is this Marvel vs. WB now?

Comics - Marvel has been dominating in "unit comic sales" since at least 2002. Literally every single year, it has sold more according to Diamond Comics (http://www.diamondcomics.com/Home/1/1/3/237?articleID=100122). The scales won't "tip back" because Marvel won in unit sales in both 2012 and 2013 anyway...
Erik10101
Erik10101 - 11/29/2015, 11:10 PM
Animated Series - Marvel has Ultimate Spidey, Avengers Assemble, and GotG right now, while DC only has Teen Titans Go. THAT is the "current state of affairs." You can't just mention a "legacy of terrific series" for DC and just ignore what Marvel has done (X-Men, Spectacular Spidey, Spider-Man: The Animated Series, Earth's Mightiest Heroes). It doesn't have "way more" outstanding shows. I'll give you animated movies though.

"the mind boggles to what marvels position would be if as expected batman v superman is successful." - Um, no. Just no. Marvel has absolutely nothing to lose if BvS is super successful, and nothing to gain if it sucks. BvS's success would just add to the dominance of the superhero genre, and MCU will continue to succeed as long as it maintains its quality movies. Marvel couldn't care less unless it somehow made all of its movies start bombing (but they would not be correlated).

"i can understand why marvel are a bit worried and constantly trying to attack WB" - What are you even talking about? Studio heads like Bob Iger have been completely professional about WB. If you're talking about actors like Anthony Mackie or Sebastian Stan, then you should know Jason Momoa and Zack Snyder have "attacked" Marvel. They're just friendly jibs, but you're making them seem like "constant attacks."

Look, I get that you love DC, but you can't write an article like this with so much bias if you want it to be taken seriously. It's silly when you finally admit that Marvel is "winning" at something that DC will just beat it in the future.
tonytony
tonytony - 11/29/2015, 11:25 PM
@Erik101 imagine if marvel had announced the versus movie first? Disney fangirls would be screaming copycat at dc. also I dont know the ratings figures for jj or dd so I cant attest to there success or viewership
tonytony
tonytony - 11/29/2015, 11:28 PM
and there are no marvel games anywhere near the batman arkham games. None.
Scorpo
Scorpo - 11/29/2015, 11:57 PM
@tonytony You should not write articles like this. Especially with this kind of bias. This is probably the worst article I have ever seen, purely because of the level of bias
tonytony
tonytony - 11/30/2015, 12:19 AM
@scorpo actually its pretty balanced and i gave credit where credit was due. The problem with some marvel fanatics is that if you give credit to anyone else they get upset, like antony mackie.
Scorpo
Scorpo - 11/30/2015, 12:22 AM
@tonytony LMAO the bias is strong in you. You didn't count daredevil or Jessica jones because they are on Netflix and you can't get the ratings. Look at the reviews. It's that simple.
BawbScharf
BawbScharf - 11/30/2015, 1:09 AM
@tonytony

You and I both know that you are not some jaded fanboy. You are well aware of what you are doing with this article and you should be ashamed of yourself. You are purposely skewing and omitting information towards your own personal bias. You opt out of declaring Marvel winner in movies on grounds of a technicality. That isn't how that works. RIGHT NOW, Marvel is in the lead. That is the truth at this moment. Then there is the complete avoidance of anything Netflix related ...because those two shows, combined with an AOS that has grown into its, Peggy Carter which has also been fairly well received, and the fact that they are all in continuity equals, if not surpasses by a thing margin, D.C's offering. Again, you didn't forget these things, you chose to leave them out because you want things to seem in favor of one company when they aren't.

The most insulting part about this is that you are trying to pass off our opinion as objective when it is anything but.

The truth, from a party that is a bit more objective than the author:

-Movies: Marvel at this point and for awhile longer. BVS is not going to put the DCEU in the lead alone. You will need BVS to be AMAZING, SS to be GREAT, and WW to be equal to those two if not better ...because three five stars in a row is something Marvel has not done yet. In fact, gaging public response, they only have two overall EXCELLENT ...three if you want to include IM 1. If WB can get three critically acclaimed movies that also do well at the box office, then they can be in the lead. Truthfully, I think as long as Snyder has Superman, his movies are going to split the popular opinion. That, however, remains to be seen.

TV: As said, it is either tied because of Netflix or Marvel is just a bit over the top due to the overall quality and word of mouth because of Netflix. Arrow isn't getting the reception it used to. Flash is doing very well. Supergirl is in its first season and tough to gage. Gotham is doing well with ratings but as far as critical reception goes it is mixed bag from alright to guilty pleasure. AoS and Carter are solid enough that combining it with the Netflix adoration ...Marvel is definitely not trailing behind D.C Personal opinion: the WB shows have a bit of that Smallville stank on them from time to time.

Vidya: Hands down D.C

Animation: Again, D.C wins by a large margin ...and they have been for years. Marvel's movies were crap and since EMH had been cancelled their animation offerings have been very dissapointing.

Comics: Honestly, I have always seen it as there will never be a winner in comics. It just depends, do you like Heroes first and characters second or Characters first, heroes second. The approach to heroes has been completely different where there is not really a fair comparison to make. If you want to, I guess you can say that Marvel is winning just because they only right now re-booting for the first time while D.C has re-booted at least once every ten years. Though an argument can be made for D.C being on the ball to provide easier jump on points for readers while Marvel relies on new number ones to do the trick. To me, this is just a matter of preference.

Basically, Marvel has a big lead in one category ...but it is the most important one (or the most visible one). D.C wins animation and vidya. Probably tie or slight Marvel lead in television and a no contest in comics.
ADParker
ADParker - 11/30/2015, 2:03 AM
Firsly: it's Christopher Reeve, not "christopher reeves".
Secondly; The pro-DC bias is manifestly obvious throughout the article, if the author can't see it then that only means that it is a subconscious bias at play, if he thinks he has overcome any personal preferences he might have and has been "fair and balanced" I fear he is quite mistaken. I would have explained the numerous instances of this but I think that has been covered sufficiently.
tonytony
tonytony - 11/30/2015, 2:08 AM
@Objectively biased I said marvel are winning movies and before comparing movies the dcu needs about 4 movies. this is important for BOTH dc and marvel fanboys to recognise.you cant attack a studio at its inception and only 2 movies in likewise bvs success will not mean dc has topped marvel but I guarantee it will shut a lot of naysayers up.

Also I did mention that dd and jessica jones are well recieved but there success is hard to gauge without any ratings or viewing figures mad max was better recieved critically than avengers or furios 7 it doesnt mean it made more money and up until they release figures the level of success will be debatable. I was being fair in saying they are well recieved but dlno viewing figures are released. Secondly arrow and flash have done remarkably well and have helped elevate the cw there are many articles about these two shows elevating the cw on the internet just google it you dont have to take my word for it.

I think its great you realise that I am not a regular fan boy. I am a fan of the genre but I hate the current thing were marvel want you to attack other studios(like antony mackie). I dont buy into that school of thinking.

TheManFromMars
TheManFromMars - 11/30/2015, 6:00 AM
I'm only here to read the comments.
01928401
01928401 - 11/30/2015, 8:34 AM
@tonytony
Quit pretending you aren't biased. The article in its most base form is biased. There is clearly no point in going around telling everyone "you can like both." It's apparent that some will just spend their days crying and begging for one company to be "better" than the other. But you are perpetuating the bullshit with your stupid article.
A non-biased article would simply contain facts and figures. ALL facts and figures. You seem to be hard-pressed finding numbers for half of the Marvel entries. You just didn't want Marvel to have another leg up.
The absolute most biased part of this article is the Animated section. Are you seriously going to try and pull some shit announcing all of DC's previous acclaimed works? Really? Marvel doesn't have any historically acclaimed animated series? Not the animated Spider-Man series or the animated X-Men series or X-Men: Evolution? Get out of here with your biased shit.

Go ahead and claim I'm a Marvel fanboy. I don't care. I'll even agree with you because DC doesn't have as much shit to be a fan of right now.
Erik10101
Erik10101 - 11/30/2015, 8:35 AM
@tonytony I feel like every time you say something, you're digging yourself into a deeper hole. You could at least address the numbers, but you choose to just repeat yourself...


"imagine if marvel had announced the versus movie first? Disney fangirls would be screaming copycat at dc." - Not my concern. I said above that the studios have been copied/been inspired by each other since the beginning, so it doesn't really play into how much I enjoy their movies.

"also I dont know the ratings figures for jj or dd so I cant attest to there success or viewership" - If you don't know these numbers, then you cannot conclude that DC is "way more successful." If you want to make this point, then say DC is winning at network television and Marvel is winning in streaming television (but again, you ignored my mention of AoS's initial ratings vs. Supergirl's)

"and there are no marvel games anywhere near the batman arkham games." - But I never denied this...

"i gave credit where credit was due" - No you didn't. Where's the mention of Marvel's legacy shows in Animated TV? Where's the mention of Marvel winning comic sales for more than a decade? Where's the mention of Iron Man's domestic earnings versus MoS?

"The problem with some marvel fanatics is that if you give credit to anyone else they get upset, like antony mackie." - You are really obsessed with this one interview. It's awfully convenient that you don't mention Momoa, Snyder, or Ayer's comments even though they're similar (though all are pretty harmless, honestly).

"you cant attack a studio at its inception and only 2 movies" - You said "DC have been Making superhero movies for a while". So what is it? Is WB the dominant godfather of superhero movies or the fledgling newbie?

"up until they release figures the level of success will be debatable" - If it's debatable, then don't make a conclusion like you did. Simple.

"Secondly arrow and flash have done remarkably well" - Um, no one's really disagreeing with their success. You just ignore Arrow S3's negative reception and the solid reviews of MCU shows.

"I am a fan of the genre but I hate the current thing were marvel want you to attack other studios(like antony mackie). I dont buy into that school of thinking." - Then what's your take on the comments of Momoa, Snyder, and Ayer?
PesciGotPepsi
PesciGotPepsi - 11/30/2015, 8:59 AM
tonytony is obviously the best person to do a UNBIASED Marvel vs DC article

:P
tonytony
tonytony - 11/30/2015, 10:59 AM
@erik101 keep bitching about shit buddy. This is a fair article and more balanced than a lot of the other nonsense that the disney fanatics on this site keep perpetuating.
yeah marvel games are not on par with dc games. all comparable marvel shows on tv are failing or disappointing with the exception of Jessica Jones and daredevil but even then their rating figures are hidden away so you cant judge them against anything.


In movies marvel are defintely winning but as the dcu is one movie in this is a silly comparison. it would be like me comparing Iron man to furios 7, grossly unfair to iron man 1. DC fans should not think that BVS succeeding will mean that they have caught up to marvel either. It wont you wont be able to make any sort of meaningful comparison till the dcu is 4 maybe even 5 movies in.

marvel fanboys cant deal with anything unless you are saying how great marvel is. sorry bruh.
Erik10101
Erik10101 - 11/30/2015, 11:33 AM
@tonytony "this is a fair article and more balanced than a lot of the other nonsense that the disney fanatics on this site keep perpetuating." - there's a reason every single post here notes that this article is really biased. To re-quote myself: "Where's the mention of Marvel's legacy shows in Animated TV? Where's the mention of Marvel winning comic sales for more than a decade? Where's the mention of Iron Man's domestic earnings versus MoS?"

"yeah marvel games are not on par with dc games." - i never disagreed... why do you feel the need to keep repeating this?

"all comparable marvel shows on tv are failing or disappointing with the exception of Jessica Jones and daredevil" - How are they "failing"? You didn't comment on my point about AoS's ratings vs. Supergirl's. Or the fact that Arrow's ratings are lower than they said it was.

"In movies marvel are defintely winning but as the dcu is one movie in this is a silly comparison." - Then let's compare Iron Man and MoS. Iron Man made basically 50 million more domestically on a much smaller budget.

"marvel fanboys cant deal with anything unless you are saying how great marvel is. sorry brush." - Every commenter here has accepted your comments, but we are just noting some inconsistencies, omissions, and biases. No offense, but you seem not to be able to deal with what we are saying because you refuse to address our numbers.
JoeMomma29
JoeMomma29 - 11/30/2015, 12:40 PM
LMAO! Did I miss where GL was setting up a universe?

Also these comments are salty and butthurt at the same time!
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 12/1/2015, 12:48 PM
Dude. Everyone here knows how biased you are. How much you can't stand Marvel. I know your saying you tried to keep it balanced, but the fact is, even if nobody here knew you at all, and just went off your article, you can still see your bias. You actually try to justify things for DC. And try to find ways to not count a bunch of stuff Marvel has already done. It's quite simple. Marvel wins in everything but video games and animated movies. Marvel's cartoons do quite well. Because a bunch of basement dwellers here don't like them doesn't mean shit. That's why they keep pumping out more. Plus the previous Marvel cartoons. Compare that to DCs lineup over the years. This ones a draw. Flat out. Toys, a draw. Merchandise, DC forever, until the past couple years. You see Marvel everywhere now.


So DC has video games and animated movies. That's their categories they win. And I myself like Marvel's animated films more. Except these recent Ironman team ups. I actually fell asleep. I NEVER fall asleep for something superhero related. I'm biased towards marvel, but love quite a few things DC. And my version of your article I just wrote is unbiased. And fact filled. Yours is opinion.
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 12/1/2015, 12:58 PM
I mean look at what your saying about comic sales. Marvel wins cause of hype? But DC will once their shared universe starts? Can someone remind me when Man of Steel came out? Wasn't that the start of their cinematic universe?

And TV? How many Marvel Live action shows have been cancelled? 0

DC? Constantine. I loved this show so that sucks ass.

Marvel has five shows lined up on Netflix, with two on ABC now. Getting multiple seasons.

DC just announced a full season for Supergirl. And a while ago the CW crossover. Gothams doing great.

So you want to call this one a draw too? Fine but keep in mind DC did get a show cancelled and marvel hasn't.

You picked this article to write. I fixed it for you.
tonytony
tonytony - 12/1/2015, 2:09 PM
it all makes sense "wyleejay" is "ballz"
WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 12/1/2015, 3:09 PM
Prove a single thing I just said wrong. And I'm definitely not ballz. Been here forever.
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