Are Origin Movies Needed?

Editorial Opinion
By SCOURGE - Apr 14, 2013 11:04 AM EST
Filed Under: Fan Fic

I love comic books and comic book movies, but one of my biggest pet peeves the the constant need by the movie studios to retell the origin stories of widely known characters like Batman, Spiderman, and Superman. These stories have been told to death,please move along.

If you are going to going to introduce the general public to a new character like Green Lantern or Iron Man, who the world at large may have heard of before but knew nothing about then doing an origin movie makes sense. The same is not true for characters like Bataman, Spiderman, Superman, and even the X-Men at this point because they have had multiple movies to tell their origin.

What are the movie studios afraid of? I am going to give two examples of up coming movies and how I think the origins should be handled:

Man of Steel--I don't have a lot of faith or interest in this movie for one simple reason: This is a retread movie,pure and simple. Want to watch Superman's origin and see him fight General Zod? Rent Superman 1&2. Is Superman's Rogues Gallery so weak that Lex and Zod are the only viable villains?

Warner Brothers should scrap Man of Steel and go back to the drawing board. As for new/different villains, how about Solomon Grundy?

Captain America: The Winter Soldier--I expect to see Cap's origin to be dealt with in flashbacks as he tries to adjust life in modern day America. I don't really expect it to be a primary focus in future movies though.

Maybe it is a question of different studios and their willingness to take risks. Marvel is willing to take chances and it paying off. Warner Brothers seems content to to play it safe.

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tonytony
tonytony - 4/14/2013, 12:03 PM
Another lame article from a marvel fan boy. The insecurity from you guys especially round MOS is quite frankly amusing.
SCOURGE
SCOURGE - 4/14/2013, 12:05 PM
No, I think we'll see bits and pieces, I expect the movie to be largely in the present.
SpoonWielder
SpoonWielder - 4/14/2013, 12:14 PM
I get why you're complaining, but sometimes you need to tell origin stories even if they're ones we've already seen.
The one that gets the most flack is from Amazing Spider-Man, but you couldn't just avoid retelling it, because they intertwined all these plot elements and character moments into it. Plus the majority of Peter Parker's inner conflict is caused by his Uncle Ben's death. Which so happens to be the very reason he becomes Spider-Man. You couldn't just not mention it, especially in a reboot.
The same with Batman Begins, everyone knows why Batman became Batman, but they added new elements that tied in with the League of Shadows that the movie going public hadn't seen before, and it again dictates a lot of who he is.

You also have to remember that the last time they told the origin story for Superman was 35 years ago. Heck even the last Spider-Man origin was over 10 years ago. Sure that one is still a little fresh in our minds, but you have to realize that just because you've gone back and watched Superman the Movie, doesn't mean everybody else has. Plus there's like 10 year olds who are gonna watch it. They won't know.
Odin
Odin - 4/14/2013, 12:23 PM
Depends on how well the character and his/her origins are known by public. Also the origin story may provive a good plot for the movie. In a case of a reboot, it might be considert that how recently the origins were told in a previous instalment.
SCOURGE
SCOURGE - 4/14/2013, 12:36 PM
It's origin fatigue I'm worried about. How many times can you Bruce's parents or Uncle Ben getting killed before mainstream audiences get bored and stop going to see comic book movies altogether?
SpoonWielder
SpoonWielder - 4/14/2013, 12:43 PM
@Scourge
But again, the ones you are complaining about have only be retold once each.

I really don't expect them to reboot any of the those series anytime soon, with the exception with Batman.
WorstUserNameEver
WorstUserNameEver - 4/14/2013, 12:48 PM
If DC get their act together we're gonna see a lot more origins very soon...

You have to set up a character with some sort of origin and Caps one was particularly tricky as his heart and morality are so integral to his character that it had to be patiently established before his transformation... which sadly did not leave a whole loada time for nazi/hydra bashing... a good effort though.
Abary
Abary - 4/14/2013, 1:46 PM
Examples from Popular Comic Book Movies:

If it's a reboot: Skip the origin. Ex. Spider-Man

If it's a first appearance: Show the origin. Ex. Iron Man.

The only times the origin was needed in a reboot (and was successful) was Batman Begins, Captain America: TFA, The Incredible Hulk, and hopefully Man of Steel.
ravennpilot
ravennpilot - 4/14/2013, 1:46 PM
Origin stories are there so it can put you in the characters frame of mind. After the first movie there shouldn't need to be much retelling of the origin, but that's if you start off a new series like Batman Begins or A retelling Like the last Spiderman movie.
SCOURGE
SCOURGE - 4/14/2013, 3:23 PM
I agree that characters that are unknown (antman-even though the movie is a terrible idea) to the general public or had terrible first outings (daredevil and dr strange) might need to have their origins done again, but characters that widely well known (batman, superman, spiderman, ect.) do not.
SnapperCarr
SnapperCarr - 4/14/2013, 3:37 PM
Why would Solomon Grundy appear in a Superman movie? He's a Alan Scott rogue.
aresww3
aresww3 - 4/14/2013, 3:49 PM
I think clever artistic reinterpretations or modernizations of origin stories when artistically done are very refreshing. what we should ask is whether or not we shouldn´t get superhero origin stories that aren´t Batman or Superman by DC? Batman Begins was excellent, and Man Of Steel looks great, but I would accept the need for these modern takes on classic stories a bit more if DC used their other characters more. Too much Batman and Supes is the problem, not their origin stories. I prefer how Man Of Steel looks than Superman Returns, which of course was not an origin. Nither was Batman the first film technically, and the worst in that series were the two last films, so no I don´t agree with this article in the slightest. wrong focus. Bring on Flash and Wonder Woman origin stories anyday.
SCOURGE
SCOURGE - 4/14/2013, 3:57 PM
Because I looked up superman foes for other options and Solomon was listed.
marvel72
marvel72 - 4/14/2013, 5:07 PM
if they can tell them in the opening credits i'm all for that but sometimes the origin can be epic in itself.

take superman or the incredible hulk origin now that is a couple of shit hot origins.
dekexz19
dekexz19 - 4/14/2013, 6:23 PM
Yep, everyone has seen Superman's origin story in the 70's films. All of the general movie audience was alive in the 70's and has watched it. Man, why would they reboot a 40 year old movie! (Sarcasm)
Zod and Lex Luthor are being reused because they are Supes' main villains! Maybe we'll see Brainiac or Metallo in the sequels or Justice League films.
No offense intended, but this article was pretty weak and could have presented its point in a much more valid way. Such as talking about the Fantastic Four reboot or the incoming Batman reboot.
Tainted87
Tainted87 - 4/14/2013, 6:23 PM
I don't have a lot to add, but consider how FEW of these you really have to worry about.

Spider-man - everyone knows he gets bitten by a special spider.

Superman - NOT everyone knows that the yellow sun gives him his powers, but I think everyone gets that he's an alien.

Batman - we all know his parents got shot and he swore to fight injustice ever since.

Hulk - gamma exposure*

You know, apart from those four, I can't think of a whole lot of origin stories that everyone really KNOWS. Maybe a bit of Punisher - the basic idea is that his family was killed by a mob... but the rest really aren't old hat.

Look at Catwoman. Burton gave her a wacked out rebirth where she's tossed out a window and gets her wounds licked by a bunch of stray cats. Funny thing is, whoever wrote the Halle Berry movie figured she's supposed to have THAT same origin.... when anyone who's picked up a comic book pretty much is expected to know that Selina Kyle doesn't have a single drop of superpower in her blood.

I saw something funny today, or rather, heard it at a restaurant. "Stuck in the Middle" was playing, and a group of friends were all like: "heh, Mr Pink", then "no, that's Mr White", and they were seriously trying to figure out whose scene it was that this song was playing to, and me being me, I had to say: "it's Mr Blonde, man."

You can't expect everyone to swallow it all the first time, and when you're working on even the smallest change or enhancement - you've got to explain it.

Why does a lethal dose of gamma exposure make Bruce Banner turn into the Hulk - when it's killed everything else? Ang Lee's Hulk goes deep into it. In short, he was born VERY healthy.

Why does Peter get super reflexes, senses, sticky fingers, super strength, and enhanced durability when he's bitten by a super-spider? I mean how many scientists do you think interacted with those guys? Clearly there must be something special about Peter to trigger that mutation.
shastab24
shastab24 - 4/14/2013, 6:57 PM
Origin stories should be told once in each version of the character's media. Hence, I expected an origin in The Amazing Spider-Man. Granted, I still thought it superfluous (the Raimi films were too fresh was the problem--that, and I prefer their brighter look on things, because dark and edgy is so overdone), but I also conceded that it would happen. After all, it's most simple to tell where people are going to go with the character based on how they handle that origin, and that movie also tied in everything to the origin.

Superman's origin is very well-known, yet most everybody wants to tell it. The Fleischer cartoons put it as a little intro to their first short, setting up everything needed to know. The radio show radically changed it, showing a very different direction to things. The serial showed it for the first time in live action (and then the second serial retold it by means of a narration by Luthor midway through the thing--not a good choice in my opinion, as it was just using the footage from the first serial). Then the Donner movies showed its take, the first time Krypton was seen as a very alien society to Earth, with crystals in the place of metals, and for the first time showing Superman having training by Jor-El. The animated series also went their own route, tying a supervillain (Brainiac) into it rather nicely. Now we could use a Superman origin to know what is going on with this one. For instance, why would he wear the awful costume he's sporting in the movie? What is his view of his own powers, as how he developed them and how he decides to use them? Is Zod intertwined, like in the Donner movies, or is he not (remember that seeing Zod in Superman's origin in those movies let us know immediately why this man would have such a hatred for the hero)? How does Superman make his debut to the world, and how does this create an impression on the public? Do they fear him at first, or do they trust him (I hope the latter--it's Superman, not Spider-Man or the X-Men)? This is important stuff to know how he interacts with the world, and with the specific movie's villain.

Batman's origin has been handled clumsily for the most part. Usually, they decide to avoid it entirely (the serials, the Adam West series), but you also get the odd execution in the Burton/Schumacher era, where the first film dwells on it a tiny bit (again tying in the villain, which is still controversial to Batman fans) and then they revisit it in a different way in Batman Forever, which is actually one of the more interesting things about that movie. Batman Begins is actually the first time you see it onscreen in live action and not in flashback (well, sort of, considering that bit of the movie could technically be flashback considering how the movie opens), and it firmly entrenches how the movie is going to work, how grounded in the real world it is. Plus, tying in the villain, but in a less direct way than Batman did (and therefore not in a way that fans would be upset).

If we began Man of Steel with Superman already known to the public, already a factor, the average movie-going public would probably assume first that this is a continuation of the Reeve movies. After all, there is no immediate break from that--they have nothing to definitively tell them that it's a different continuity, other than different actors (which, considering things like James Bond, we do know the public can accept the same exact character in the same exact continuity played by a radically different actor). Starting with the origin tells people that THIS Superman is not the one that Donner directed and it would lay the groundwork in tone to know that this guy will not fly around the world to reverse time or repair a wall by looking at it.
AmazingFantasy
AmazingFantasy - 4/14/2013, 8:09 PM
Levi has Ron Perlmans jizz in bags at his house
OrgasmicPotatoe
OrgasmicPotatoe - 4/14/2013, 8:53 PM
The only superhero we've seen to origins twice up to now is Spider-Man. We are about to have a new Superman, but it's not for now.

"The same is not true for characters like Bataman, Spiderman, Superman, and even the X-Men at this point because they have had multiple movies to tell their origin."

Superman has one origin movie, the X-Men has one origin movie, and it's not even the real origin (2 if you count Wolverine) and Batman has one origin movie.

Origins movies are a good thing if we have never seen them on screen, Like for Batman, I think we have nailed this story in 2005, let's explore something else. I'm all for starting a franchise with the superhero already a hero, but it's so interesting to see how one becomes a hero that it's a story you HAVE to tell, if you're going to start a franchise.

I would be in favor of a franchise without origins, like if they did the rebooted FF skipping the origins, I wouldn't mind. But it's a downside.
ArtisticErotic
ArtisticErotic - 4/15/2013, 12:44 AM
You know you idiots who keeping making articles about a movie sucking before even seeing it, just throw in the towel.

Here's idea, don't see the [frick]ing film, pretend it doesn't exist and move the [frick] on. It's that easy to avoid something.

Warner Brothers is playing it safe because nothing else has worked out for them yet. Hell every studio is playing it safe they are only doing the stuff thats popular and sure fire.



SCOURGE
SCOURGE - 4/15/2013, 6:59 AM
I never said Man of Steel sucked.
Facade
Facade - 4/15/2013, 8:25 AM
An origin to a reboot is redundant. Most hero origins are already known anyway. I'd rather see origins be villain-centric.
CavEl
CavEl - 4/15/2013, 10:10 AM
Yes, let's watch a 35 year old movie to learn Superman's origins....even though though movies SUCKED DICK!
RobGrizzly
RobGrizzly - 4/15/2013, 12:10 PM
I think with Man of Steel they are doing the origin again because this isn't going to have the same elements of past movies.
Batman is the only movie that had no origin. Even the flashback was only his parents getting killed, not how he became Batman. Some critics saw that as a strike against the film. It's fine to jump right into things for a sequel, but first time out, it is important to establish your world and your rules, especially if its not going to be connected to what we may have seen before.

Have faith :)
Facade
Facade - 4/15/2013, 2:00 PM
@TheHouseofUl...even Superman Returns covered his Smallville origins. Which still makes it redundant.
fortycals
fortycals - 4/15/2013, 4:00 PM
As a comic fan I cant get as excited when i hear origin story, but I understand the need. I'm not saying they cant be good. Its just if I hear that the majority of a movie focuses on an origin, i only get a half chub. For me the majority of the time, I like the second movie more. That being said the second movie would not have been as good without the set up of the first. Donners superman is near and dear to my heart( i cant stand all the hate it gets here) but the second was my favorite, to date. Same with Raimis spiderman, Tdk, Blade, Xmen, Hellboy, and Tim Burtons batman. I think the only exception I have is Ironman2. It just seems like for an avid reader, the origins take up precious time, and the more time you spend on the origins the more I want to yawn. I do like origins stories but I like the follow ups more, especially if the hero spends half the movie un superheroic.

I do like the idea of focusing on the villians first and for most. Hell Ive been known to say give big villians there own movie sans hero. Could you imagine a horror flick with the joker, without batman. Let joker wreak havoc for a solo and then clash with batman in a crossover sequel. I am probably the only one that likes this idea but i would love it. Give carnage or venom there own story sans spiderman. Those guys would make great horror movies if you take the hero out.
AC1
AC1 - 4/15/2013, 5:04 PM
Origin movies provide not only a new stepping point for new audiences, but also establish the differences in the new version of the story. Man of Steel is going to be MUCH different to the Chris Reeve Superman movies, in the same way Nolan's Batman films were very different from Burton's and Schumacker's.

Plus, origin stories can provide some of the best character development. I really enjoy origin stories - there's something about watching the character begin their journey toward becoming a hero that is very interesting. Despite the minor similarities that will always be present in retellings, they're usually very different as films, and I think if you say otherwise then there's no point in you watching films anyway, as you're clearly not paying attention to them. It's like Spider-Man vs The Amazing Spider-Man - both share some similar plot points which are crucial to Spidey's story (Uncle Ben's death, getting bitten by a spider, becoming Spider-Man, fighting a bad guy) but if you pay proper attention to both films and WATCH them, rather than simply LOOKING at them, you can see they're actually vastly different films, and both absolutely valid in their own rights.
Facade
Facade - 4/15/2013, 6:13 PM
@fortycals...AMEN!
TheBatfanCC
TheBatfanCC - 4/18/2013, 3:45 AM
This is a very difficult topic as many very good stories have lots of character development, and an origin story is a very simple and easy way to implement this for example,

Batman Begins- Anger drives him to become batman and seek justice,
Dark Knight - Loved ones die, regrets stepping into role, has to step up and become a symbol not just a vigilante
Dark Knight Rises- Able to finish his quest and let go of his anger and live a normal life

An origin story is a very good way of creating the first steps of a characters development another example is Iron Man look at how he was before his accident and although he is still pretentious he uses his genius to create green energy and in the Avengers he puts his life on the line to save others during the whole nuke scene. One of the reasons Man of Steel is an origin story is that, it allows a better character of superman that we can all relate to and modernise the whole krypton story. Zod is the villain again but its only to give someone who is part of Superman's origin who is match for him and allows no kryptonite usage. Before you say Brainiac he should be saved for a JL film or link him in with MOS like Loki was used in Thor and Avengers.

However I do understand how it can become tiresome and seemed recycled, for example the amazing spider mans origin story did not need to be there, the only reason they did it was for character development and to give Peter a reason to become Spiderman. IMO they could have started it with him being spiderman and have flash backs to Uncle Ben's death and have monologues explaining peters guilt. I believe that some films do not need origins while new characters do to understand their motives and emotions unless that character is well known.

An example would be when DC reboot Batman we do not need an origin as the public know of his motives through Nolan's trilogy, Wonder woman and Flash have to be origin stories along with Antman as the public, not us comic book fans do not know these characters well for them to have relatable stories which can create sequels. The next green lantern is tricky as it was not done entirely well. This is what I say to your question.



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