EDITORIAL: The Dream Fulfilled!

EDITORIAL: The Dream Fulfilled!

Iron Man II is not just a fine CBM, it is much more. With it the dreams of readers going back decades have finally been realized. At last we have a true Superhero Comic Book Movie!

Editorial Opinion
By TheDarqueOne - Oct 28, 2010 03:10 PM EST
Filed Under: Other

The Dream Fulfilled.

I don't just mean I like the movie. Nor do I just mean I love the movie. This is something more. Let me give you an example of another dream fulfilled.

When I first read "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings" they left a big impression. In the years that followed, I often would express the hope of a movie or series of movies to do those magnificent books justice. The reply was always the same, 'It would take 12 hours of movie to do just "The Lord of the Rings" properly. That is just too much. Never happen.' I had no choice but to agree.

Today sitting on my shelves in a place of honor are the three extended versions of LOTR.

All 12 hours of it.

That is a Dream Fulfilled. The impossible has become real.

I know this site is called ComicBookMovie.com and anything related to comics is acceptable. What I care about are superheroes or SCBMs. Comics have a history every bit as long as that of the movies and they have their own set of rules and elements. You cannot just put someone in a silly outfit and call them a superhero there is more to it.

Superheroes do not each exist in their own little worlds and they never did. Since the very beginning they have worked together and impacted each others' lives. What would Superman be without Batman? Hard to say because they have been the biggest influence on each other for 70+ years. When it comes to the movies though the two have yet to meet.

Batman is a well trained and obsessive human. He works in a world of super powered people and yet he still stands out. In the massively powerful Justice League, he is a vital member of the team. Batman is fearless and has faced down gods. We do not respect Batman because he can beat up a few thugs we respect him because he can beat anybody. He out-thinks you and then beats the crap out of you. He is insult and injury in one pissed off package.

I think "Batman Begins" and "The Dark Knight" are amazing films. They are full of action and powerful performances. When I first heard they were going to do a new Batman film, I said (and my wife will verify this if you do not believe me) "Please let it be Christian Bale." So I could not be more pleased with him. To me, he played the part he was given almost to perfection.

He just ain't Batman.

Both of those movies are interpretations of the character Batman. They answer the question, "What would a Batman be like in the real world?" This is an interesting question and it made for some great action movies.

It is not the Batman who has existed for 70+ years. It is not the Batman I grew up reading and who has continued to hold an audience over all these decades. That is just not some small thing to be glossed over. This character in his proper setting has been a Star for decades. In a world of super powered people he is feared and respected. That is just so much more than what Nolan showed us in his great movies. He is more.

Best friend to Superman, founding member of the Justice League, mentor to a series of Robins and Batgirls, baddest human being in the DCU.

That is Batman.


The amazing Iron Man I


Great film to say the least. Critics gave it big thumbs up. Audiences ran to see it. Most of the fans had good things to say. They told the story right. Sure they had to modernize the setting a bit but the feeling was good, the tone was perfect, and it worked beautifully. I have talked to people who barely knew that Iron Man existed as well as plenty of fans. The vast majority loved it.

I was not around here when Jon Favreau was announced as the director but I would bet the majority was against him. What he brought to the movie was a hatred of formula. He does not like to build a story by adding elements to get the right number of demographics. Jon tells a story and has respect for the material he uses. Sure there is a love story but it is a natural part of the plot not slapped in as with a few other SCBMs I could name. The Iron Man suit was shown off in all its stunning glory. Tony Stark came to life on the screen and all was well.

Then came the mind-blower. After the credits.



"I am Iron Man."

"You think you're the only superhero in the world? Mr. Stark, you've become part
of a bigger universe. You just don't know it yet."

"Who the hell are you?"

"Nick Fury, Director of S.H.I.E.L.D.
I'm here to talk to you about the Avenger Initiative."

There, right there, the Marvel Universe came to life on film. A true full blown Comic Universe was finally in existence. The real deal. Not an freaking rip-off interpretation no matter how excellent it may otherwise be.

It. Him. Them. ALL OF THEM! YES!


Iron Man II: First movie in the new Marvel Universe


It was a long wait for "Iron Man 2." Not as long as it would have been in years past but it sure felt like it. How would they move things along? Details emerged along the way and by the time I actually saw it I knew all the key information.

"Iron Man 2" is not just about him. Two. Two others get their start in this movie. Both have long histories in the comics and more than deserve to be seen. Added to that, Nick Fury finally got some screen time so to me that makes three.


The Black Widow & War Machine


War Machine's story was excellent. He stood by his friend for as long as he could. Favreau showed enough steps along the way to make it believable. I do hope for a director's cut someday that will show more of his suiting up that first time. Terrance Howard just so nailed the part originally. I will admit I wish he was in "Iron Man 2." I think he would have been better. But Don really did step up and I did like him. He earned that suit in more ways than one is what I am saying. War Machine got his start in 1979 and I am thrilled to see him onscreen at last.

I will admit that Black Widow did not get her full due. But I do not see that as something to complain about. In this case I see a glass half full. She was in the movie and doing what she does best. She is a spy and probably the best one on the planet. When it came time to kick some ass, it was a fun run. They created a fighting style for her that is both effective and sexy. If you have to get your butt kicked, I think they way she does it would not be that bad. *grins* Widow is almost as old as the Marvel Universe itself having first appeared as Natalia "Natasha" Alianovna Romanova in 1964.

So in this one movie we have four major characters. They exist in a universe with others. We also begin to learn more about a vast organization that is a vital part of the comics...


Nick Fury and S.H.I.E.L.D.


I grew up reading "Avengers," "Howling Commandos" and other things with Nick Fury in them. In addition to that, my Father is a retired Army colonel. When I was growing up I lived on Army bases quite often. I had the benefit of knowing many fine men who were very much like Fury. Gruff, no nonsense, get to the point, and get the damn job done kind of guys. So besides some real hard core Fury fans there are few who love that particular character more than myself.

When it came time to make the movie they decided to take the framework from the Ultimates. And that Nick is based on Sam. I see why they did it. And frankly if I can get over not getting the original character enough to enjoy the masterful Sam Jackson I think anybody can.

I have no trouble at all seeing him as a man who can stand up to people like Stark or even Thor. SHIELD itself is a vital part of the Marvel Universe too. Represented by Agent Coulson they give the good guys some structure. The world is not unaware of the dangers and SHIELD exists to combat them. Represented by Agent Coulson I would say that the world is in pretty good hands.

"We need you."

"More than you know."

"Not that much."

That exchange is so perfect I still smile every time I think of it. The attitude is exactly what it needs to be when dealing with someone like Stark. There is respect for the man and at the same time an understanding that he is still an imperfect person.

Let us not forget the cameos.


Prototype Shield & The Hammer of Thor


Technically speaking the big three of the Avengers are all at least represented in this one movie. Two are still off stage but they exist. We are now up to Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, War Machine, Black Widow, Hulk, Nick Fury &, S.H.I.E.L.D.

There is so much more to come. Both Thor and Captain America are looking good. I think Cap is going to be the blockbuster of 2011. He is one of the originals and his fanbase is every bit as large as Superman or Batman.

Then one more wait that is going to seem like forever for The Avengers!

The Dream continues...
About The Author:
TheDarqueOne
Member Since 8/24/2010
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marvelguy
marvelguy - 10/28/2010, 4:19 PM
Be warned: lots of folks on here will rip apart IM2. I thought it was fun, though it had a lot of holes. How is the Widow a Russian spy? Tony carries his sunglasses in his armor? Sam Jackson doesn't seem tough or terribly stern.
The whole movie was sort of a re-hash. Like I said, fun, just not epic or movie the story along.
TANKGIRL
TANKGIRL - 10/28/2010, 4:49 PM
great job writing this article

and most of successful action movie in industry now are based from comic don't worry the dream will countiny

i didnt like iron man 2 but it brought a lot of good storylines
Wadey09
Wadey09 - 10/28/2010, 5:07 PM
as much as i like IM2, i thought it could have been a little more cohesive as an Iron Man story.
two years is actually pretty quick for a film to get made. there are usually several months of pre-production, script writing, finding a director (unless he/she is contracted for the sequel), set design, set construction, casting, etc. all before filming starts.

imo, this film was a little rushed, trying to intensify the hype for Cap, Thor, and Avengers.
Favreau and Downey already commented that Marvel execs kinda forced some more Marvel Universe easter eggs and storylines into the films.

i just hope that Cap, Thor, and the Avengers don't suffer from this kind of subliminal marketing technique.
TheDarqueOne
TheDarqueOne - 10/28/2010, 6:17 PM
@Marvelguy

I am aware of the opinions of some but I have never been afraid of that. Every movie has holes so people can always nick-pick if they want. But after decades of waiting I could not be more pleased.

@Tankgirl

Thank you for the compliment.


@Xenix

I don't care about Oscars or Critics for that matter. What I have waited for is a movie that brings the comics to life and Iron Man II finally did that in all the ways that matter. Is Dark Knight a better film that IM2, probably, but that is just not the point for me. The Marvel Universe is the point.

@Wadey09

I will agree the film was done faster than most but that is the trend nowadays really. And since I loved all the easter eggs I am rather pleased they are there.




Wadey09
Wadey09 - 10/28/2010, 6:57 PM
@TheDarqueOne
i did not say that i didn't like the eggs.
i just feel that the nods the film makers put it to solidify a shared universe do not compromise the integrity of the film in question.
i loved Cap's shield. i was in awe of Mjolnir.
i was excited about Black Widow.
but her character was never properly developed. she felt shoe horned in, and i felt that while she was cool, her character could have been sacrificed for more screen time with Rhodey and maybe even Agent Coulson.

and i have noticed that some of the best sequels take more than two years to make. Lord of the Rings, of which i am also an avid fan btw, took over twenty years. The Dark Knight took three. Spider-man 2 and X2 also took three.
i have noticed that the films that take less time, are the ones that generally aren't well recieved by either the fans or the critics:
Revenge of the Fallen, The Matrix sequels, Pirates of the Caribbean (pick one sequel).
and now it would appear that Iron Man 2 is following this trend.

i like Iron Man 2, but i hope that Iron Man 3, or any Marvel Studios film before that realizes not to sacrifice integrity and character development for easter eggs and marketing for other films.
ElBicho
ElBicho - 10/28/2010, 7:50 PM
@TheDarqueOne

This is one top-notch article!

For me, IM2 could've been better. The eggs were super-cool, but the ending battle was way too short, and they didn't really let WM get going.

That aside, this is extremely well written and your love for the Marvel cinematic universe is palpable.

Well done.
STOOPUDR
STOOPUDR - 10/28/2010, 9:02 PM
Very good article, and I agree with your opinion of Iron Man 2. I think people also need to take something major into account when reviewing any of these movies; they are not really movies as we know them. They are actually closer to episodes of Cerials from the 30's-40's. They all tie into the same story.

The blackwidow has now been introduced, briefly as it is. They can now choose to expand her further in a later movie if they choose without having to introduce her again. Same as how they did it with Rodey/ War machine. It would not have been as epic if Rodey just jumped into the silver suit in the last movie. She may be in Avengers, Avengers 2, or even Cap 2. When those movies come out you will be happy they introduced the Character in Iron Man 2, and they can spend the time to develop her better. Besides she is really B list character and always has been, how much attention does she really need. Should have been wasp instead, but now I am being too picky.

You missed that the Hulk was also tied in with Iron Man 2. The news report on the screen in the background of the Stark/ Fury conversation (easter egg). This means Iron Man, War Machine, Captain America, Thor, Black Widow, and the Hulk were all atleast acknowledged in this movie.
TheDarqueOne
TheDarqueOne - 10/28/2010, 9:44 PM
@Wadey

You make some good points but I think in the end it is the content and choices that make the differences. Even the quickest-made movie has endless hours of thought put into it. Fans are simply overly picky because they care so much.

@Xenix

Exactly.

@ElBicho

Thank you for the compliments. I would have loved another hour of the movie but they are always afraid to go too long. But when I compare the battles to the average comic book sequences I think they hold up pretty well. Battles go fast when you do them live.

@Anil

Not sure what you mean by forced. In this reality SHIELD exists. Iron Man appeared and did well for a while but then went downhill. SHIELD stepped in and fixed the situation which is what they are supposed to do.

@Stoopudr

Good point about the Serial comparision. They are all connected into one big story which is the proper way to look at them.

I should have mentioned the Hulk. You are quite correct on that one. So much amazing stuff in the movie that one got left out. I certainly had noticed that once I got the chance to watch it on DVD.

You are correct that Black Widow has never been a major lead character nor a big seller. However since she is a girl to me that makes her about 3 times as important as her numbers would indicate. There are simply not enough female SuperHeros.



TheDarqueOne
TheDarqueOne - 10/28/2010, 9:53 PM
I added the Hulk to the final list. I do not want to make any major edits at this point.
Orphix
Orphix - 10/29/2010, 1:41 AM
Great article BUT I have to disagree slightly with your may argument.

I am a massive comic book fan - but first and foremost I am a movie fan. Thats my biggest love so what I want to see every time I go into a movie theatre is to see a cracking film. Thats the be all and end all.

I can understand the passion for bringing the Marvel Universe to life on screen in all it's complicated, multi-strand variety BUT I would never judge a film by how closely it sticks to and respects the source material no matter how many comic characters they introduce. I have always seen source material as just that - source.

I think Ruffalo and Norton made a valid point about comparing the role of Bruce Banner to that of Hamlet and that interpretation is not only valid but ESSENTIAL to keeping these characters fresh and contemporary.

Also as comic writers come and go the character changes at its very source so most are difficult to pin down after 30+ years of stories.

So the bottomline, in my view, is Ironman II better than Batman Begins or The Dark Knight? Nope - I don't think so. In fact Ironman II isn't even as good as Ironman I BUT I can understand the excitement of fans seeing this WHOLE universe being brought to life and what it means to people.

However, on a good note, I think Marvel Studios have learnt alot about making these sorts of films through Ironman II and that nods and winks in Thor and Captain America will be better handled. Whedon himself noted that the Captain America script was 'tight' whic is a VERY good sign.

TheDarqueOne
TheDarqueOne - 10/29/2010, 5:46 AM
@Orphix

You disagree because as you said you are more of a movie fan than a comics fan. For me when you are talking CBMs the comic part comes first. From your point of view I understand exactly how you feel about Iron Man II.

But there are many excellent movies made every year and there always have been. But to me the beginnings of the Marvel Universe on film are something more than just a couple of hours of entertainment.

To me Dark Knight is not even in the same league as Iron Man II and for you the reverse seems to be true.

@Anil Rickley

I really wonder what people would think if they had never heard about the behind the scenes stuff that went on. We know that the Story was altered a bit to include new elements so it is not surprising that people don't like those exact things. If nobody knew that the Story had changed I just wonder if people would be more accepting.

You have shown yourself to be a pretty sharp guy but I do wonder about the rest of the Fans. People say 'oh that did not affect my judgement' in cases where clearly they have been affected.

But there is nothing that can be done about personal opinion on things like performances. You see two stinkers while I see one perfect and one good.

"He took your suit? You are Iron Man and he just took it?"

"Little brother walked in, kicked your ass and took your suit? Is that even possible?"

Orphix
Orphix - 10/29/2010, 6:09 AM
@TheDarqueOne

I completely understand your excitment about bringing the universe together. (I share that too - one of the reasons I hang out and throw in the odd comment on this site).

But for me the film itself ALWAYS comes first. And there are a number of reasons for that.

Firstly - it doesn't matter how well the characters reflect the source material or how accurately they are portrayed if the movie sucks you will always have a bad movie. Just sitting there. No one watching it. Stinking the place up.

Secondly - I LOVE the Marvel Universe with such a passion that they have to be in GREAT films. Otherwise they will just end up as an insult and a grotesque parody of what I hold dear. I'd rather the character differ from the source because someone saw an intelligent way to interpret them rather than because the film was just poorly done.

Thirdly - there has to be a point for putting the marvel universe on film. Now, I am sure, there are many cynical voices out there who would cry "To make money" BUT for me - and for any self-respecting fan - it should be to make quality films. And if that isn't the point then fine, I shall just go back to visiting my charcters in the 'proper' medium and start reading the comics.

Actually I still rather enjoyed Ironman 2 - it's just not a good as it could have been. And the main point of that was because the story wasn't told as well as it could have been. There were a lot of interesting things going on with the whole 'sins of the fathers' themes BUT I never really got a sense of that. And the Nick Fury/Black Widow stuff just seemed a little forced and had too much of a Deus ex Machina thing going on.

However I reckon that the boys at Marvel Studios are well aware of what went right and what went wrong with that film and learn from it. As a result I am more than looking forward to all the rest of the movies on their 'slate'.
ThunderCougarFalconBird
ThunderCougarFalconBird - 10/29/2010, 6:36 AM
Excellent read I must say! I've only seen IM2 once so I wouldn't pick it apart. I think it was a great movie who's only clear downfall was the success of the first. But I get what your saying, and looking at the movie as a piece of a much larger puzzle puts it into perspective and makes it harder to nit-pick and easier to enjoy.
TheDarqueOne
TheDarqueOne - 10/29/2010, 1:19 PM
@Orphix

On pretty much any other genre you and I would see eye to eye quite well. I do love movies in general and normally I am fine with the source material simply servicing the needs of the film. With comic SuperHeros things are just a bit different.

The making of movies is an Art and one that is always changing. It is always a bit of a crapshoot no matter how much time, talent and money are put into it.

"Thirdly - there has to be a point for putting the marvel universe on film. Now, I am sure, there are many cynical voices out there who would cry "To make money" BUT for me - and for any self-respecting fan - it should be to make quality films."

Ok it is not that I disagree with that it is just that is too simple. The point of an SCBM is to accurately translate the comics into a film. Comics are not just grist for the mill because they have a history that demands more.

Just like Harry Potter. Those movies followed the books because a rather large percentage of those who would be watching had read the books. In this rather remarkable case the filmmakers did not have the usual liberties to add/mix/change things. Mostly they left things out and tweeked some sequences a bit. The relative size of the actual pre-film fanbase was so large that the movies had no choice but to play along.

Comics deserve the same level of respect. Batman is not just some character that Christopher Nolan created. Batman existed before Mr. Nolan was born. I adore Batman Begins but when it comes right down to it the movie completely and utterly fails to translate the Character properly. Batman does not exist solo in the otherwise normal world.

The X-Men are an interesting puzzle. First two are excellent movies but bad SCBMs. In the last one things switch. I love X3 far more than the first two because it is a proper wierd alternative version of the X-Men. All the originals have finally appeared. Magneto gathers a Brotherhood. The team of the X-Men put down Magneto by working as a group. These tactics were fundamental in their original conception.

So for me X3 blows 1&2 clear off the map.

But since the who X series does not follow the comics much at all they are not my favorites. I love Spider-Man far more.


@Ron & @Intruder

Thanks guys.



OdinsBeard
OdinsBeard - 10/29/2010, 4:32 PM
Very good, well written editorial, which doesn't happen often on this site. you present your opinion excellently. that is why i hate to say i disagree with you 100% and I BELIEVE you couldn't be more wrong about pretty much every character you talk about. sorry man :( no hard feelings

Batman and Superman have no influence on each other what so ever. they're still the same as they were when they debuted. the characters within each of their books have the most influence. Alfred, Lois, Robin, the Kents, The Waynes... they couldn't be more separate from one another. they have totally different philosophies on how to go about their lives. they had nothing to do with shaping each other into who they are now. its why WB is making a separate Supes franchise sans Batman. because even tho you state "We do not respect Batman because he can beat up a few thugs we respect him because he can beat anybody" that's really only the train of thought for comic fans. everyone of sound mind knows Superman makes Batman irrelevant. don't forget these are writers with a purpose, and that purpose is to make sure Batman doesn't become a laughable character. if he didn't "beat everybody just because he does" then he would just be some insane man who fights people. - take off the bat goggles. he's not THAT good. Superman would, could and should waste him in less than half a second. but if the writers did that people would stop buying batman comics. gotta sell that shit!

And IM2 was not a great movie. it was fun and i liked it because i like iron man and i have watched it many times. but i can't think of one reason why a non-comic fan would like it. go back and watch it again and picture that you're just joe-movie-goer who didn't stay after the credits for IM and have never heard of black widow or nic fury. now you're watching IM2 and they expect you to just know who this sam jackson guy is when he shows up at the donut shop, and is joined by the new notary now clad in black leather, then later he just explains out of nowhere that he used to work with his father and here's this awesome box of everything that will solve your problems. talk about the easy way out. then they waste time reintroducing Agent Coulson only to have him allude to Thor, a fact only us nerds know about, and then leave. he was a good character! i know he'll have a bigger part in Thor but that was one of the big problems with IM2, to much allusion to Avengers at the expense of the story. Micky Rourke did a good job but the character of whiplash was so one dimensional, same with black widow (which you mentioned) and Nic Fury. absolutely no character development at all. even for Stark. he was just trying to cure himself the whole time. same as Incredible Hulk, Banner/Stark was the same at the end as he was at the beginning personality-wise.

IM2 was a very fun movie and i do like it. but you can't ignore the problems with it and that the issues that it did have do not give a good outlook for Avengers.

All the actors were great. i too wanted howard back as war machine but cheadle did a fantastic job. but the story was terrible.

i hate to hate. just wanted to present a counter point.
TheDarqueOne
TheDarqueOne - 10/29/2010, 6:59 PM
@OdinsBeard

I always hope that even when people disagree with me they will enjoy the read. So thanks for saying you did appreciate the words.

Now on to your comments...

I really think you see the Comics as somewhat shallower than I do. What I see is a medium that over a whole lot of years has evolved. In the early days I agree the Characters pretty much just did their own thing. But in more recient years Marvel in particular has tried to delve into deeper subjects with long-term effects. D.C. has done the same just not quite as well.

As far as Iron Man II goes I have to say I don't really care much about how non-Fans see the movie. I do want SCBMs to do well enough to continue to be made but beyond that I care about me. As a Fan I already know these Characters and would be quite happy to minimize all Origin to about 5 minutes each. I am curious enough to ask people what they think of each new film as it comes out and to watch the online reactions though.

But to address your point about SHIELD. In the first movie they were established as a agency having something to do with people like Iron Man. Coulson kept trying to interview Stark and then lead the initial fight against Iron Monger. Then Fury shows up. As far as I have seen most people seem to understand that all pretty well.

Now as Fans we know far more which is great but that knowledge is not essential to understanding what is going on.

Frankly I think the only real problem with Iron Man II is that it is a sequel. Iron Man I was universally loved and damn near perfect. People just naturally expect more of the same but it just rarely works that way.

The only complaint I have heard from non-Fans is that it is a bit much to take in. It is a bit too fast and too intense for some.

In other words it is too much of a comic book.

Wadey09
Wadey09 - 10/29/2010, 10:08 PM
@TheDarqueOne
if you thought Batman Begins failed as an SCBM, then you missed the whole point of the film.
when Batman was introduced, DC didn't even have a universe yet. true there was Superman, but they didn't meet up until DC printed a comic that featured the World Fair in Flushing, NY. and that was well into the '40s, which is at least five years AFTER Batman's debut.

Begins took Batman all the way back to his origin. and explored his psyche in a way that translated surprisingly well for that medium. it brought two villains to film that i speculated would never see the light of day.

their origins were simple, and yet almost verbatum what went on in the comics. true the Lazarus Pit was never mentioned (unless you read the novel) but that's neither here nor there.

Batman was relevant again and more true to the comics than half of the SCBMs that came out in the last decade. same goes for The Dark Knight as well.

if you read a Batman comic, there might be a vague nod to the greater DC universe, or there might be a full blown out crossover. thats how comics work and that is how film works. i'm sure that in a future Bat film (hopefully in the Nolanverse!) there will be some crossover action. but in every origin, tTHAT is the hero's spotlight. NOT the shared universe they live in.
Wadey09
Wadey09 - 10/29/2010, 10:19 PM
also,
we as people who love CBMs, need to care about what the main stream thinks. believe it or not, we are not the majority who buy tickets.
most people who go to see a film, are looking for an escape. same as me. same as you probably. but the difference is, when we go see a CBM, we look out for the easter eggs that the film makers put in to get us hyped for the next film. Iron Man 2 was full of eggs. and i loved the majority of them.

but the fact remains that when a character as cool as Coulson only has five minutes of screen time (less actually), what are the people's reaction? their eyes glaze over and they forget all about him. i would have if not for my knowledge of what occurs in the Land of Enchantment. which most audiences DO NOT appreciate.

and to fill a film as hyped as Iron Man 2 with things that the average viewing audience doesn't know that they want to care about, they get bored. a bored audience means empty seats. empty seats means less revenue brought in. less revenue means no more CBMs.

so i feel that is the personal obligation of each and every member of CBM to care what a mainstream audience thinks about a film that could make or break our hopes and dreams. Iron Man 2 didn't do that btw, but if wither Cap or Thor fail to win over the audience, Avengers may just be the last CBM Marvel may produce for a while.
TheDarqueOne
TheDarqueOne - 10/30/2010, 4:26 AM
@Wadey

I think what you are doing is what a lot of Fans do: adding in things that are not there in the Nolan Batman movies. They are not beginnings that are intended to lead to full comic movies. Nolan has made it perfectly clear that the only way he sees any SuperHero movie working is with a solo Hero. There is not now, nor is there likely to be, anybody beyond Batman.

That is just not a comic book movie to me.

The mainstream audience...

I get what you are saying but I just see it a little differently. Sure I want SCBMs to be made well enough to gather a good-sized Audience. The films need to be successful so we can get more of them. But that is about as far as my concern goes.

Rather than pander down to the mass Audience I want to see SCBMs lift people up to meet us. You see I consider a true SCBM to be it's own unique genre which I like to call UltraAction. I think there is a real magic to the comic SuperHeros that has barely been touched upon. Done right I think the films can be intense thrill rides that at the same time have some depth to them.

Until Iron Man II what I see in SCBMs are a bunch of movies that were indeed made for everybody but me. I am happy to see any sort of SuperHero movie I do admit but what I have always wanted is the full comic book experience brought to life. And I think that Marvel is going to be successful in dragging everybody into their Universe. This will mean a lot of films over a whole lot of years.

I do think that Captain America, possibly Thor, and Avengers will be better movies than Iron Man II. But we don't have those yet so for now this film stands at the very top of what I consider to be the finest SCBMs ever made. Followed closely by Spider-Man 3 and X-Men 3.
TheDarqueOne
TheDarqueOne - 11/1/2010, 10:04 AM
In general I do not write reviews of much of anything. I realize my personal tastes do not come close to either the majority or the dedicated Fans of much of anything.

But this is about something much bigger than the movie. Even if you hate Iron Man II you can at least appreciate the Marvel Universe coming to life on film. It makes sense since Marvel gets a lot of original credit for a tight-knit comics Universe anyway. They put a lot of people into New York from the beginning quite intentionally.

I grew up with Mr. Perfect in the form of Captain America. He is a bit right-wing but he is as Enlightened as you can get in a comic. The fact that he would not condemn the French for their failures in WWII helped to form a part of my own character.

But I have to admit that the Steve Rogers in the Ultimates is far more realistic a person. A 1940s man was not enlightened, many were racist, and hatred drove them. Righteous though it may have been it was still rage. When Cap yelled "Do you think this A on my head stands for France!" I laughed for a good long time. It almost hurt.

The Ultimates Cap will become the classic Cap in time. He will learn the hard lessons and become the Hero I grew up with.

That growth is what I hope to see both in the Cap movie and in Avengers. I pray they do not make him too perfect right off the bat. Something mid-way between real and comic would be fine. Leave some tough things to learn once he gets to 2010 America.
OdinsBeard
OdinsBeard - 11/1/2010, 11:52 AM
points well taken DarqueOne, and i see where you're coming from. and you're right in your assumption that you probably look deeper into comics than i do. of course i have my favorite characters and costumes and looks and powers and everything but i really only look at them as a story telling medium and how well they tell those stories on an individual basis. weather that be issue to issue, a single arch, or an entire run. which is probably why i look down upon IM2 so much and feel it didn't tell the story as well as it could have. even tho i do like it and will buy the blu-ray for my collection i have to admit in an honest moment with myself that if it wasn't "iron man" and just rdj as someone else i wouldn't like it at all. but obviously i am a frequent user of this site so classifying our love of comics and their adaptations is like splitting hairs. which we love to do here!;)

lookin' forward to the next one man. good stuff.
TheDarqueOne
TheDarqueOne - 11/9/2010, 2:51 PM
My current project...

MetaWar: Beginnings



Original novel-length SuperHero Fiction.
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