Comic Book Heroes, Then & Now: The Punisher.

Comic Book Heroes, Then & Now: The Punisher.

Click here to read my second issue of 'Comic-Book Heroes, Then & Now' where I check out Dolph Lundgren as The Punisher, as well as Thomas Jane in the role...

Editorial Opinion
By Comedian03 - Mar 04, 2011 06:03 PM EST
Filed Under: Punisher


Well here it is, my second issue of 'Comic-Book Heroes, Then & Now', and this time I'll be looking at Dolph Lundgren in 1989's 'The Punisher', as well as Thomas Jane in the role in 2004's 'The Punisher'.

For those of you who missed my first issue where I looked at 'Batman', check it out HERE

The Punisher (1989)
Directed by Mark Goldblatt
Starring:
Dolph Lundgren - Frank Castle/The Punisher
Louis Gossett Jr. - Jake Berkowitz
Jeroen Krabbe - Gianni Franco
Kim Miyori - Lady Tanaka

Budget - $9-11 million
Gross Revenue - N/A




Now it's been quite a long time since I've seen this movie so I'll have to rely mostly on memory and the internet to help me write this. Not many people have seen this version of The Punisher due to it not having a theatrical release in the US because of extreme financial difficulties at the time, the movie was however given a theatrical release everywhere else and released on VHS in the states in '91.



Despite it's reputation for being a terrible comic-book movie, some critics and magazines actually gave it fairly decent reviews, praising Dolph Lundgren's ability to act through a sub-par plot and script. I think it goes without question that Dolph Lundgren was a good fit for Frank Castle, maybe not by todays standards but at the time, he was one of the top action heroes who could really pull off the tough and rugged character. Take note, I think he's a good fit as far as the action parts go, he's an action star plain and simple, he's not an actor, I think we can all agree that his acting is, well its just awful.



The action in the movie is great, again for it's time it's great, by todays standards it would look silly and campy. The majority of the fight scenes were all improvised by the actors so it could bring some more realism to the scenes as opposed to a completely planned out fight scene, and it works, it works great. There's no shortage of blood-shed, I think there's something like close to 100 kills in the movie, not including the explosions and what not.

Some people would argue that the movie focused too much on violence and not enough on plot and story, and what's the problem with that? That's who The Punisher is, he's not going to spend 30 minutes monologuing about how he's going to kill you, he's going to walk up to you while you're crying your eyes out, and he's going to stab you in the forehead.



Now that's not saying there aren't some major issues with this movie, most notably would be the plot involving Frank helping the man who murdered his family. I'll admit, that was a little bit, off, ok not off, competely messed up. That basically takes everything The Punisher stands for and throws it out the window. Yes he spends the whole movie doing what he does best, murdering, but he's still helping the man who killed his family for crying out loud.



It's hard for me to give my final opinion on this movie seeing as how I haven't seen it for quite some time but I can say this, it was alright, it doesn't live up to the standards of other comic-book movies, but it was good. This movie did what the 80's did best, action movies, if you take out the characters names, you have the standard 80's style popcorn action flick. The good news for most comic-book fans who hate this movie is that it was almost completely over-shadowed by Tim Burton's 'Batman' released the same year.


The Punisher (2004)

Directed by Johnathan Hensleigh

Starring:
Thomas Jane - Frank Castle/The Punisher
Ben Foster - Spacker Dave
Kevin Nash - The Russian
Will Patton - Quentin Glass
Rebecca Romijn - Joan
John Travolta - Howard Saint

Budget - $15 million
Gross Revenue - $55 million




Now the main reason I chose to use this Punisher film as opposed to 'War Zone' is because I didn't like 'War Zone', hated it in fact, but I love this movie, Thomas Jane was an absolutely amazing casting choice for Frank Castle. Honestly, before this movie, I never in a million years would have thought of Thomas for this movie, when I heard he was cast for this role I literally laughed, I couldn't believe they were doing it, but how wrong I was.



Avi Arad himself said that Thomas Jane was the first and only actor considered for Frank Castle, and after turning down the role twice, Jane accepted and immediately began reading as many issues of The Punisher comic book he could get his hands on, he gained 25 pounds of muscle, and trained for 7 months with the Navy Seals for prepare for the role.

While I'm on the topic of casting, that brings me to John Travolta. I have nothing against Travolta, and hell I even thought he was good in this movie, but I just think that someone else could have done a way better job. I think he's a great actor and is great in almost everything I've seen him in, but he just seemed out of place throughout the film and that was a bit of a distraction for me, I just couldn't see him being in a world like that.



Yea there are a few issues with this Punisher film also, but the same can be said about any comic-book movie out there. For starters, director Johnathan Hensleigh was only given a budget of $15 million for the movie, when the going-rate for most action movies is upwards of $60 million, and only 50 days to shoot the movie, which again is about half the time most action movies have to shoot. Due to the budget cuts, there had to be a lot of re-writes with the script, in the dvd commentary, it's mentioned that the original opening scene was suppose to be a big action scene set in Kuwait during the Gulf War.



When 'The Punisher' was released, it was given overall negative reviews. The critics hated it, and Roger Ebert said " The Punisher is so grim and cheerless, you wonder if even its hero gets any satisfaction from his accomplishments.", and in his attempt to bash the film, he basically described who Frank Castle is, here's the thing, this movie wasn't made for the critics, it wasn't made to win an oscar or getting standing ovations. That being said, the reaction from the fanboys wasn't exactly postive either.




I don't enjoy this movie for the plot, or the story, I'm in it for the action, that's not to say I don't think the movie has a decent plot because in my opinion it does, but I think the action far out-weighs it. From Frank's assortment to amazing weapons, that beautiful GTO, and of course, the fight scene with The Russian which I think is one of my favorite movie fight scenes ever. It really shows that just because he's the hero of the story, doesn't mean he's going to just kill everybody without a problem, he genuinely gets the crap kicked out of him and basically the only reason he's left standing at the end of the fight is just by luck and determination.

Overall, I can safely say that I love this movie, it will always be one of my favorite comic-book movies and to any of you who haven't seen it in a long time, I definitely recommend going back and revisiting it, and to all you haters out there, do the same thing, give it a second chance. Not to mention the video game that came out with the movie which was at the time one of the best video games I'd ever played. Unfortunately, I think in another 10 or 15 years this movie will fade into the dark and be forgotten by the general audience who haven't already forgotten about it.



Well there you have it folks, my second issue of 'Comic-Book Heroes, Then & Now', be sure to check back next week when I'll compare the two very different adaptions of The Hulk.
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AlSimmons
AlSimmons - 3/4/2011, 6:53 PM
first! I always wanted to do that lol.
vermillion
vermillion - 3/4/2011, 6:54 PM
Thomas Jane as The Punisher was great casting. I loved his portrayal of The Punsiher. I saw this movie on FX awhile back, couldn't believe I never saw it until then! The ending of the film was so Punisher... Also liked the references to "Punisher: Year One" in the film! It's a shame it was never given a sequel... I really think it deserved it.

Never seen the older & newer Punisher film, though. :F

Jolt17
Jolt17 - 3/4/2011, 6:55 PM
Nice article, dude!

Well don't care of that Lundgren's Punisher, and pity Jane's Punisher not having a good story...

But damn JANE is a nice Punisher!

Btw where's STEVENSON?

; P

And...

CLICK CLICK Justice League FAN CAST by Jolt17


TheGambitFreak
TheGambitFreak - 3/4/2011, 7:02 PM
nice, bro, I'm curious, why did you hate war zone, granted, I don't know much about Punisher besides the obvious, but I thought the action was good, blood and gore matched the war journal series, I didn't like the cast for frank but War zone was decent. But yeah, I agree, Thomas jane punsiher was awesome, it won't fade for me, cause I own it!
WellDrawn
WellDrawn - 3/4/2011, 7:07 PM
If there was a way to put Tom Jane's performance and interpretation into Ray Stevenson's body we would have the ultimate Punisher. I agree that War Zone is not even worth including.

By far the most interesting thing about these movies is that, on paper, The Punisher should be the easiest Marvel property to adapt into a movie. There's no sci-fi elements or suspension of disbelief required, just a straight up revenge story. And yet they can't get it right after 3 tries?!
Speaking of Punisher2004, how bad is Travolta in that movie? Seriously, his acting toward the end of that movie ranks right up there with his performance in Battlefield Earth.
CaptainAmerica
CaptainAmerica - 3/4/2011, 7:12 PM
Great article. I loved Thomas Jane's Punisher a sequel would have been cool instead of the piece of shit War Zone.
ablee337
ablee337 - 3/4/2011, 7:14 PM
All the Punisher movies have sucked. I hate each one for different reasons, but I can't believe how boring they all were. I really love the idea, the look, comic book origin and concept of the character but none of the movies have gotten it right. One of the common problems of all the Punisher movies have been the gangsters, the antagonists. They all were stereotypical ideas of gangsters. I would like to see gangsters more like the Sopranos or Goodfellas or Yakuza from Black Rain and less like the cartoon impressions in the Punisher movies so far.
JULEZ13
JULEZ13 - 3/4/2011, 7:42 PM
I didn't watch any of the other Punisher movies except the one released in '04. Thomas Jane, I always thought was the perfect man for the job. He was very dedicated and fit the role extremely well. It's a shame the studios didn't invest enough in this film, they never gave it a chance. The story was just awful but the fight scenes were entertaining. Instead of rebooting it they should've just had a remake and kept Jane, but invest more in the story. Its sad how the studios just left that film for dead with that budget and shooting time. smh

Travolta was just a complete miscast. He is one Italian actor that just can not make every one believe that he is a gangster. If his role was played by someone else the film might have not been so painful to watch. Travolta was just the cherry on top. Terrible.
mdx06
mdx06 - 3/4/2011, 8:04 PM
All of these movies were crap. Maybe if you edit them together it might be worth watching. Then again maybe not.
golden123
golden123 - 3/4/2011, 8:15 PM
This is an improvement over your last then & now article, but this is more like a review than an editorial.
TheBatman938865
TheBatman938865 - 3/4/2011, 8:29 PM
The Punisher (2004) kicked so much ass! i can't believe any person would hate it.....if they did..they must have grown up liking barbies or something lol that movie was a man's movie....and the cool chicks that dig action movies
Cap82
Cap82 - 3/4/2011, 8:34 PM
Thank you! Im so happy im not alone I hating war zone! That movie was garbage
TheStranger
TheStranger - 3/4/2011, 8:39 PM
Tom Jane was an amazing Frank Castle, we need him back.
GoddamnBatman
GoddamnBatman - 3/4/2011, 8:52 PM
I own all three Punisher's and enjoyed all three Castle's. Stevensen really looks like most the pictures of Frank Castle I've seen. And his cold stares and frowns were cool. Also thought jigsaw looked good and his brother was fun to watch. Why does Warzone get so much hate
Dumegg
Dumegg - 3/4/2011, 9:10 PM
warzones problem was a crappy director. I mean, who would ever hang from a chandelier and spin in circles
shooting machineguns. you'd get shoot up in 2 seconds.
Ray Stevenson was good. jigsaw was cool. his crazy brother was great. the story was good. the director
sucked.
Slashercon
Slashercon - 3/4/2011, 9:18 PM
All three Punisher movies sucked. (Thats just my opinion. Its ok if you guys liked it though.) Out of all three, I think the 2004 film is the best of the worse of the worse.
Saintt
Saintt - 3/4/2011, 9:33 PM
Hey guy, all three Punisher movies were a complete fail. The one comic book character that should translate well to movies never did, and that is because the f.u.c.k.o.s that made them clearly hate Punisher fans. Yes, there are bits and pieces from each movie that are good, but not enough. I get sick when I think about any Punisher movie...never do another article about it again...thanks....GO PUNISHER 4!
superbatspiderman
superbatspiderman - 3/4/2011, 9:40 PM
Thomas Jane's Punisher movie is one of my all time favorite movies of all time I just love it.

the movie has one of the greatest quotes ever " This is not revenge it is PUNISHMENT." When I hear that I get chills down my spine.
Niem8211
Niem8211 - 3/4/2011, 9:43 PM
Jane was the best, but Zone in 09 was what everyone asked for. No acting just gore and it sucked. I still love the 89 version as one of the best, but Jane was too in to the role.

I really think they could do better, but so far no one has stepped up.

As a diehard fan what do you guys think?
Niem8211
Niem8211 - 3/4/2011, 9:45 PM
@Comedian03 hats off bro GREAT artical!!!!

Spidey1996
Spidey1996 - 3/4/2011, 10:09 PM
Thomas Jane = The Best Punisher :)
StuartGreen01
StuartGreen01 - 3/4/2011, 10:36 PM
Dolph Lundren's "The Punisher" was tolerable for me. It's not a good movie, but it's not all bad, either. Aside from the lack of Punisher's costume, Dolph really does try to do the best with what he's given and I actually like him as Frank Castle. He also has the best quote from any "Punisher" film. When Louis Gossett Jr. asks Dolph's Frank what he calls the hundred-something people he's killed over the past five years, Frank says, "It's a work in progress." GREAT line for a so-so flick. And yes, I never got the fact that Frank worked with the guy that killed his family. That is the ultimate definition of "WTF?" right there.

Thomas Jane's "The Punisher", on the other hand, just made me cringe. It was slow, boring, and the plot was just stupid. John Travolta was also woefully miscast and given a lousy part as the villain. Thomas Jane, on the other hand, was a great Punisher, even if the script he, like Dolph, was given was incredibly weak.

I have not seen "Punisher: War Zone" yet, because I've already seen two disappointing Punisher films and I really don't want to go for three. Then again, now that the film rights to the Punisher have reverted back to Marvel Studios, maybe they can finally, FINALLY give us a good Punisher film.
DTor91
DTor91 - 3/4/2011, 11:05 PM
Good article and I agree about War Zone. While I think Ray Stevenson had the look of the Punisher, War Zone has to be one the worst movies I've ever seen. To those who say the movie had lot's of gore and action, sure, but that's not what makes the Punisher. War Zone was too cartoony and even campy, probably more so than Batman and Robin. What I want from a Punisher movie is the grittiness of a Garth Ennis story, the intensity of a Tim Bradstreet cover. I feel the Thomas Jane movie came closest, but still fell short.
MaddMonkk
MaddMonkk - 3/5/2011, 12:08 AM
Very cool article. I like you're opinions on both movies. I must be a rare type of comic book fan because I like all the CBM's. There are parts I don't like about certain movies, but I watch them because I love comic books and seeing it on the screen is amazing. I would like to hear your take on some older CBM's like Swamp Thing and the Captain America movies.(awful I know, but I still watch them.)
shaddowkhan
shaddowkhan - 3/5/2011, 3:27 AM
good read man i liked em both hated the third preferred second
GuyF1105
GuyF1105 - 3/5/2011, 4:22 AM
Punished war zone was one of only a handful of movies I actually could not watch all the way through...it was that God -awful !
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 3/5/2011, 4:44 AM
NIM @ TOM JANE was the best!

DOLPH for THE RUSSIAN lol!


TOM JANE is the PUNISHER!!!



Another movie or HBO series... he's a must!


Comedian @ Great article man, glad you didn't feature that joke of a movie called WH@REZONE!

; p
LEEE777
LEEE777 - 3/5/2011, 4:47 AM
thewanderer
thewanderer - 3/5/2011, 6:06 AM
the 2004 doesn't get enough love.
theartofoneness
theartofoneness - 3/5/2011, 10:28 AM
There has not been a good punisher movie yet. I never found any real sadistic quality to him but then again I never read the comic. That isnt to say though that I dont have a distinct impression from him. Lundren did a good job but it never made me want to repeat view. The 2004 punisher was ok but again it didnt make me want to watch it very much. It had a low budget hollywood feel to it that just made it lame. The newest punisher looked the part bigtime but the movie itself was lame. Honestly I think it just comes down to actors playing the role who dont truly embody the character. Lundren did that for sure, and yes his acting was no good. The next is the punishers direction in the story, what drives him. i dont like the idea that he simply goes around killing the bad guys. Its lame and cliche. I dont like that he seeks revenge for the murder of his family, cliche again. I think we need it to be taken by someone with some vision. Get rid of the silly skull unless you intend to actually make him a superhero and less identifiable. He is essentially batman without remorse. So as I said, I dont think a good one has been made yet. To me its like superman. Ive seen the movies out there but its never been done well.
otakux3r0
otakux3r0 - 3/5/2011, 11:55 AM
Both of these movies were way better than Punisher: War zon, Which sucked, and had nothing to do with the commic. It'd be awesome to see either Dolph Lundgren, or Thomas Jane in some kind of sequel. They both played the part like pros, and I was glad I was a Punisher fan watching these movies.
DTor91
DTor91 - 3/5/2011, 2:23 PM
@Gattsu I've only seen the movie once so I did forget many of the scenes that bothered me, but the one I will never forget is the one where some guys were doing cartwheels and acrobatics over buildings and Punisher came out of nowhere with a rocket launcher and blew them away. It was just a corny scene. One of the first scenes, where the Punisher invades a mansion and reveals himself with a flare, that was cool, but I felt the movie went downhill from there. I remember some scenes had neon lights that just reminded me too much of Batman and Robin, and Dominic West's portrayal of Jigsaw reminded me of Tommy Lee Jones' Two-Face.
hovis5818
hovis5818 - 3/5/2011, 2:50 PM
@Comedian03 - I wasn't a fan of the last one but this one is great, seems to be much less copy/paste going on and much more of your own writing, I actually enjoyed reading this one. This one was definitely worthy of going on main whereas I didn't feel the Batman one should have.

Keep it up, will be back for the next one!
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