Movie Magic Case Study #6: Tim Burton Vs. Robert Rodriguez

Movie Magic Case Study #6: Tim Burton Vs. Robert Rodriguez

Two great directors, responsible for great comic book movies. Read more to learn about the development of their superhero films and other fun info. Vote for who's movie magic makes you go all tingly inside!

Editorial Opinion
By MarkJulian - Aug 07, 2011 05:08 PM EST
Filed Under: Sin City

These two directors share some striking similarities and I think their movies definitely share some similar thematic and visual qualities. Tim Burton is a legend these days, responsible for a smattering of dark and eerie films that have left indelible impressions on the work of many noteworthy figures like Neil Gaiman and Guillermo Del Toro. Robert Rodriguez is a legend and inspirational figure in his own right. His "$7,000 film", El Mariachi won the Audience Award at the Sundance Film Festival and was the spring point for his long and successful career. Furthermore, the film inspired countless others to pick up a camera and start filming without a budget. Talk to any fan film directors and I guarantee they will cite El Mariachi as an inspiration. In this installment of Movie Magic Case Study we will be looking at each directors take on beloved and iconic comic book franchises. Let's analyze their approaches to their films and decide who has the better formula for producing a great comic book movie.



Batman






Batman

Burton directing Keaton on the set of Batman.


First, we'll look at Tim Burton's Batman. Burton's ability to produce hits with low budgets [Beetlejuice, Pee-wee's Big Adventure] impressed studio executives, and he received his first big budget film, Batman. The success of The Dark Knight Returns and The Killing Joke had rekindled Warner Bros.' interest in a big screen adaptation of the Dark Knight. Once on board, Burton had then-girlfriend Julie Hickson write a new 30-page film treatment, feeling the previous script by Tom Mankiewicz was campy. Warner Bros. was not impressed and hired comic book writer, Steve Englehart to write a new treatment in March 1986. It included the Joker and Rupert Thorne as the main villains, with cameo appearances by the Penguin, Silver St. Cloud and Dick Grayson in supporting roles. It followed the similar storyline from Englehart's own Strange Apparitions [excellent stuff, a must read for Batman fans]. Warner Bros. was impressed, but Englehart felt there were too many characters. He removed the Penguin and Dick Grayson in his second treatment, finishing in May 1986. Burton then approached Sam Hamm, a comic book fan, to turn the treatment into a script.



Hamm decided not to use an origin story, feeling that flashbacks would be more suitable and that "unlocking the mystery" would become part of the storyline. He reasoned, "You totally destroy your credibility if you show the literal process by which Bruce Wayne becomes Batman." Hamm replaced Silver St. Cloud with Vicki Vale and Rupert Thorne with his own creation, Carl Grissom. He completed his script in October 1986. One scene in Hamm's script had a young James Gordon on duty the night of the murder of Bruce Wayne's parents. When Hamm's script was rewritten, the scene was deleted. To the dismay of the studio, what goes on at comicbookmovie.com was also a regular occurrence all the way back in the '80s. Hamm's script was bootlegged at various comic book stores across the US. Due to the 1988 Writers Guild of America strike, Hamm was unable to perform rewrites and that task fell to Jonathan Gems, Warren Skaaren and Charles McKeown. Hamm was furious at the changes, notably at the fact that Dick Grayson was not re-added to the film as he had planned and that the Joker did not kill Viki Vale. Originally in the climax, the Joker was to kill Vicki Vale, sending Batman into a vengeful fury. Mel Gibson, Kevin Costner, Charlie Sheen, Pierce Brosnan, Tom Selleck and Bill Murray were all considered for Batman. Tim Burton was pressured by Warner Bros. to cast an obvious action movie star. Producer Jon Peters favored Keaton, arguing he had the right "edgy, tormented quality." Having directed Keaton in Beetlejuice, Burton agreed. Keaton's casting caused a controversy among comic book fans, with 50,000 protest letters sent to Warner Bros. offices. Adam West also spoke out critically while simultaneously campaigning for the role. Keaton studied The Dark Knight Returns for inspiration.

Tim Curry, Willem Dafoe, David Bowie and James Woods were considered for the Joker. Robin Williams also lobbied hard for the part. In the end, Burton cast Jack Nicholson as The Joker (Tim Curry being his second choice).

Sean Young was originally cast as Vicki Vale, but was injured in a horse-riding accident prior to commencement of filming. Burton suggested replacing Young with Michelle Pfeiffer but Keaton, who was in a relationship with Pfeiffer, believed it would be too awkward. Of course, you all know that she went on to portray Catwoman in Batman Returns. With Young hurt a frantic search was put on by the studio to find a replacement, and one of the producers suggested Kim Basinger, who readily agreed.

Fun Fact:Producer Jon Peters wanted to use a Nike product placement with the Batsuit [*facepalm].

Burton claimed that The Killing Joke was a major influence on his film adaptation of Batman:

"I was never a giant comic book fan, but I've always loved the image of Batman and The Joker. The reason I've never been a comic book fan—and I think it started when I was a child—is because I could never tell which box I was supposed to read. I don't know if it was dyslexia or whatever, but that's why I loved The Killing Joke, because for the first time I could tell which one to read. It's my favorite. It's the first comic I've ever loved. And the success of those graphic novels made our ideas more acceptable. I write therefore I am."


When discussing the central theme of Batman, director Tim Burton explained:

"The whole film and mythology of the character is a complete duel of the freaks. It's a fight between two disturbed people." He continued, "The Joker is such a great character because there's a complete freedom to him. Any character who operates on the outside of society and is deemed a freak and an outcast then has the freedom to do what they want... They are the darker sides of freedom. Insanity is in some scary way the most freedom you can have, because you're not bound by the laws of society."


Batman opened on June 23, 1989, grossing $43.6 million in 2,194 theaters during its opening weekend. This broke the opening weekend record, set by Ghostbusters II one week earlier, with $29.4 million. On the film, Burton remarked, "I liked parts of it, but the whole movie is mainly boring to me. It's OK, but it was more of a cultural phenomenon than a great movie."

Burton's film also became a major inspiration for the successful 1990s cartoon Batman: The Animated Series, in as much as the darkness of the picture and its sequel allowed for a darker Batman on television.







Sin City

Robert Rodriguez with Jessica Alba on the set of Sin City.

Sin City was a critical hit in 2005 as well as a box office success, particularly for a hyperviolent comic book adaptation that did not have name recognition comparable to the X-Men or Spider-Man. During production in 2004, Rodríguez insisted that Frank Miller direct the film with him because he considered the visual style of Miller's comic art to be just as important as his own in the film. However, the Directors Guild of America would not allow it, citing that only "legitimate teams" could share the director's credit (e.g. the Wachowski Brothers). Rodríguez chose to resign from the DGA. By resigning from the DGA, Rodríguez was subsequently forced to relinquish his director's seat on the film John Carter of Mars (in development) for Paramount Pictures.

After his experience with Hollywood on the third RoboCop film, Frank Miller did not want to release the film rights, fearing a similar result. Rodriguez, a long-time fan of the graphic novels, was eager to adapt Sin City for the screen. His plan was to make a fully faithful adaptation, follow the source material closely, and make a "translation, not an adaptation". As a result, there is no screenwriting in the credits; simply "Based on the graphic novels by Frank Miller".



There were several minor changes, such as dialogue trimming, new colorized objects, removal of some nudity, slightly edited violence, and minor deleted scenes. These scenes were later added in the release of the Sin City Collectors DVD, which also split the books into the 4 separate stories. In hopes of convincing Miller to give the project his blessing, Rodriguez shot a "proof of concept" adaptation of the Sin City story "The Customer is Always Right" (starring Josh Hartnett and Marley Shelton). Rodriguez flew Miller into Austin to be present at this test shooting, and Miller was very happy with the results. This footage was later used as the opening scene for the completed film.

In terms of casting, on the Sin City DVD, Frank Miller commented that "After [the interview] with Mickey Rourke, I was only able to get down one note: 'He IS Marv!'" Adrien Brody auditioned for the role of Det. Lt. Jack "Jackie Boy" Rafferty, which ultimately went to Benicio del Toro. Robert Rodriguez originally envisioned Johnny Depp in the role of Jackie Boy. Due to prior commitments, Depp could not play the part. Christopher Walken, Willem Dafoe, Steve Buscemi and Michael Douglas were all originally offered roles. Douglas was offered the role of Hartigan, Buscemi was offered the part of Junior when he became the Yellow Bastard, and Dafoe and Walken were both offered the role of Senator Roark. Leonardo DiCaprio was originally up for the role of Junior but eventually declined the role, which later went to Nick Stahl. Kate Bosworth was the first choice for the role of Gail. Jessica Simpson auditioned for the role of Nancy Callahan. Anthony Michael Hall was also considered for the role of Dwight. Uma Thurman, Sarah Jessica Parker, Ashley Judd, Carrie Ann Moss and Naomi Watts were considered to play Lucille before Carla Gugino was cast.

Sin City grossed $29.1 million on its opening weekend, defeating fellow opener Beauty Shop by more than twice its opening take. The film saw a sharp decline in its second weekend, dropping over fifty percent. Ultimately, the film ended its North American run with a gross of $74.1 million against its extremely low budget of $40 million. Overseas, the film grossed $84.6 million, for a worldwide total from theater receipts of $158.7 million.

Bill Murray Batman

Bill Murray was one of several contenders for the role of Bruce Wayne in Burton's Batman.


Depp in Sin City

Depp was up for the role of Jackie Boy in Sin City. It's rumored he will have a part in Sin City 2.









MOVIE MAGIC CASE STUDY SERIES









Batman is a 1989 superhero film based on the DC Comics character of the same name, directed by Tim Burton. The film stars Michael Keaton in the title role, as well as Jack Nicholson, Kim Basinger, Robert Wuhl and Jack Palance. The film, in which Batman deals with the rise of a costumed criminal known as "The Joker", is the first installment of Warner Bros.' Batman film series.

After Burton was hired as director, Steve Englehart and Julie Hickson wrote film treatments before Sam Hamm wrote the first screenplay. Batman was not greenlit until after the success of Burton's Beetlejuice (1988). Numerous A-list actors were considered for the role of Batman. Nicholson accepted the role of the Joker under strict conditions that dictated a high salary, a portion of the box office profits, and his shooting schedule.

Filming took place at Pinewood Studios from October 1988 to January 1989. The budget escalated from $30 million to $48 million, while the 1988 Writers Guild of America strike forced Hamm to drop out. Uncredited rewrites were performed by Warren Skaaren, Charles McKeown and Jonathan Gems. Batman was a critical and financial success, earning over $400 million in box office totals. The film received several Saturn Award nominations and a Golden Globe nomination, and won an Academy Award. It also inspired the Emmy Award-winning Batman: The Animated Series, paving the way for the DC Animated Universe, and has influenced Hollywood's modern marketing and development techniques of the superhero film genre.


Sin City, also known as Frank Miller's Sin City, is a 2005 crime thriller film written, produced and directed by Frank Miller and Robert Rodriguez. It is a neo-noir based on Miller's graphic novel series of the same name.

The film is primarily based on three of Miller's works: The Hard Goodbye, about a man who embarks on a brutal rampage in search of his one-time sweetheart's killer; The Big Fat Kill, which focuses on a street war between a group of prostitutes and a group of mercenaries; and That Yellow Bastard, which follows an aging police officer who protects a young woman from a grotesquely disfigured serial killer. The film stars Bruce Willis, Mickey Rourke, Clive Owen, Jessica Alba, Benicio del Toro, Brittany Murphy, Elijah Wood, Rosario Dawson, Jaime King, Carla Gugino, Michael Madsen and Nick Stahl, among others.



By: TwitterButtons.com

By TwitterButtons.com


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Supes17
Supes17 - 8/7/2011, 6:01 PM
It's crazy how CB fans can potentially ruin CBMs.
Imagine if the producers listened to the 50000 letters from the whiners?
Keaton was an incredible Batman!
santoanderson
santoanderson - 8/7/2011, 6:03 PM
I'm not a big fan of Rodriguez. The guy holds himself up there with Tarantino, but the quality just isn't there. His hardcore action flicks can be pretty hit and miss, and for some reason he chooses to supplement the R-rated stuff with "Sharkboy and Lava Girl in 3D" and "Spy Kids 4" with Ricky Gervais as a ninja robot dog....
Supes17
Supes17 - 8/7/2011, 6:09 PM
Tarantino is the better director.
Pulp Fiction, Kill Bill, Inglorious Basterds, etc.
It wouldve been awesome if he directed Watchmen..
Benjamitesandwich
Benjamitesandwich - 8/7/2011, 6:13 PM
Rodriguez for Deadpool PLEASE!
Ryguy88
Ryguy88 - 8/7/2011, 6:24 PM
I'm not a huge fan of either as both are very hit and miss but I will say that I think Burton's best movies are better than Rodriguez's best movies and Burton's worst movies are worse than Rodriguez's worst movies.
themayer88
themayer88 - 8/7/2011, 6:28 PM
i bet Tim Burton dress Helena Bonham Carter up like Edward Scissorhands before he bangs her, and calls her Johnny

If he love Johnny Depp so much he should just freakin marry him!....
kevshardlemonade
kevshardlemonade - 8/7/2011, 6:58 PM
So Burton admits his Batman was boring. You tube is full of spiteful Burton defenders that thin he is some kind of Batman scribe when he himself could care less about Batman.
Boekelaar
Boekelaar - 8/7/2011, 7:35 PM
I hate Burton, Rodriguez is the man. And being a kid when Spy Kids came out I loved that movie and then when I got older and discovered Deperado and Once Upon a Time in Mexico as well as Sin City I was amazed at how my childhood hadn't changed but simply matured. Burton is so shit and says bad shit about his own movies. Takes no responsibilty. I watched his Planet of the Apes last night and it was so crap and then when I did some research on it Burton is qouted as saying he'd "rather jump out of a window" then direct another. Directors are supposed to take pride in their work and make the best film possible. This is where Rodriguez succeeds and Burton fails.
FireKnightRises
FireKnightRises - 8/7/2011, 7:38 PM
"The whole film and mythology of the character is a complete duel of the freaks. It's a fight between two disturbed people."

nolan used the same theme in TDK
that can be seen when his joker said this
"you're a freak like me"

he should thanked tim burton
superbatspiderman
superbatspiderman - 8/7/2011, 8:10 PM
tim Burton is probably a more succesful director but that is just because he has be around for a while. Both directors have had their hits and misses. I would have to lean towards Burton because I have watched only a handful of Rodriguez movies.
NeoBaggins
NeoBaggins - 8/7/2011, 8:31 PM
Now let's do Thundar the Barbarian VS HE-MAN.
BigK1337
BigK1337 - 8/7/2011, 9:00 PM
@NeoBaggins

He-Man won due to having both a magic sword AND super human strength.
kisama
kisama - 8/7/2011, 11:05 PM
argghhhhhhh! I can't choose! both have great movies in their own right.
superpooper
superpooper - 8/8/2011, 12:11 AM
Burton has a more impressive body of work than Rodriguez. That's the bottom line. Given time Rodriguez may or may not surpass Burton, but until then Burton is the better director. Regardless of whether or not he likes comic books, he's responsible for changing the public perception of Batman from the campy "Adam West" nonsensical 60's version to the dark, brooding version we know and love today. His use of surreal imagery was groundbreaking and visionary. His work with Danny Elfman set the benchmark for cbm film scores and has been included in or directly influenced nearly every cbm that followed Batman. The guy has just simply had a MASSIVE career so far, and between him and Rodriguez there's really no comparison.
Radsavage1
Radsavage1 - 8/8/2011, 12:40 AM
I don't understand the hate on Robert Rodriguez. He has made some fun movies. Desperado, From Dusk Till Dawn, The Faculty, Sin City, Grindhouse, Machete, Once Upon a Time in Mexico, El mariachi. I don't really watch his kids movies(The Spykids series, Sharkboy And Lavagirl, Shorts), but he actually sits down with his kids and ask them what they want to see in a movie. Those flicks are made for his kids and I see why children love them. That is a rad father. He also is one of the coolest film makers ever. He literally does everything. He writes, directs, choreographs, produces and edits all his films . He also writes and records some of the music and does the cinematography. He owns his own FX company and just started a new company so he can finance his own movies. Now I don't hate Tim Burton but Rodriguez does a lot more then him. As a matter of fact Hollywood loves the guy because he shoots movies fast and he can do it under budget. Plus look at all the talent he works with. I don't know how this turned into a rant But I'm gonna end it with this. Rodriguez didn't make Danny Trejo's career but he sure did help it. I know that has nothing to do with this but I felt compelled to write it.
NeoBaggins
NeoBaggins - 8/8/2011, 1:33 AM
BigK1337 I guess your right. But this IS a lightsaber Thundar is carrying.

DarKnightRises So, Nolan owes Burton thanks because he used the term "freak" in his movie? Your joking, right?
supermarioworldE
supermarioworldE - 8/8/2011, 6:42 AM
If we're talking strictly comic book movies, Rodriguez wins easily. The style, story, acting, and faithfulness of Sin City trumps the 1989 Batman without effort. Burton's Batman has a great style to it, and the acting (particularly from Nicholson and Keaton) is good, but that can't make up for the problems with the story and lack of faithfulness to the material.

If we're talking about the full careers of both filmakers, things get a little tricky.

Tim Burton has made some truly iconic movies for each generation since he began his career (Pee-Wee's Big Adventure, Edward Scissorhands, The Nightmare Before Cristmas, Ed Wood, Sweeney Todd), but loses some credit due to the few bad-awful movies that he's been involved in recently (Nearly everything since 2001).

Robert Rodriguez has a certain style for his movies that doesn't always appeal to everybody. From over the top gore (From Dusk Till Dawn) to paper thin plotting (Desperado), Rodriguez's films certainly have an "acquired likeness" quality to them. Comic book fans can appreciate Sin City. Old school exploitation fans and gorehounds can appreciate From Dusk 'Till Dawn, Planet Terror, and Machete. Children can appreciate the Spy Kids films. At the end of the day Rodriguez's films have a great number of popularity, but lack an extra bit of quality.

As far as filmakers go, I have to give up to Tim Burton simply because he has made much better films than Rodriguez, with a wider audience appeal.
Bandrews1
Bandrews1 - 8/8/2011, 12:53 PM
I prefer Burton, even though I like them both in their own right.
xBlaze96x
xBlaze96x - 8/8/2011, 2:06 PM
I like Burton a little more even though he made that crappy Alice in Wonderland movie and the ever so crazy Charlie and The Chocolate Factory.
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