How come SPIDER-MAN 3 and THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 2 get flack for having more than one villain when Batman's DARK KNIGHT trilogy has more than one in each movie?

As a fan of Tobey and Andrew's five SPIDER-MAN movies and a disliker of all things DC, there's something that doesn't sound right!

Editorial Opinion
By CFL - Feb 23, 2016 05:02 PM EST
Filed Under: Spider-Man 3

You all know me as the guy who loves Spider-Man and hates the Marvel Cinematic Universe! Evidence being that of my articles What THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN Cinematic Universe Would've Looked Liked! (http://www.comicbookmovie.com/spider-man_movies/the_amazing_spider-man/what-the-amazing-spider-man-cinematic-a126064) and My Vision for Spider-Man's Future in Film! (http://www.comicbookmovie.com/spider-man/my-vision-for-spider-mans-future-in-film-a127019).

SPIDER-MAN 3 and THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 2 were getting a lot of hate since their release because of having three villains each. In the former, the villains are The Sandman, The New Goblin, and Venom. In the latter, the villains are Electro, The Green Goblin, and Rhino. I loved these baddies because of how one can feel sympathetic towards them with the exception of The Rhino becuase Paul Giamatti's hilarious portrayal of him is just evil for the sake of being evil like Heath Ledger's Joker of THE DARK KNIGHT. Because each movie have three villains each, it was the end of their respective franchises despite how much money those two movies made at the box-office. How is that fair? I get it! Fanboys and moviegoers imagine what Sony was thinking such as more villains means "more flashy action" and "more butts in seats". To them, Sony was wrong and now Spidey is being rebooted for the sake of the MCU. Yay for them, but a big "[frick] you" for me!

Now, here's one thing I've had on my mind for the last couple of months as I struggled with the atrocity that is Marvel Studios cancelling further ASM films and adding the webslinger to their universe .... How come SPIDER-MAN 3 and THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 2 get flack for having more than one villain when Batman's DARK KNIGHT trilogy has more than one in each movie?

BATMAN BEGINS had Ra's al Ghul, THE DARK KNIGHT had The Joker and Two-Face, THE DARK KNIGHT RISES had Bane and Talia al Ghul, and the whole trilogy had The Scarecrow appearing in all three films. Yet they were all critically-acclaimed and the whole trilogy made $2.464 billion worldwide. Does that make sense to anybody? Batman gets loved for having more than one villain in each movie, but not Spider-Man?

Okay, the story of the movie is what's really important. We all know that! But seriously, SM3 and TASM2 get hate for more than one character and subplot in each movie yet THE DARK KNIGHT trilogy gets love for more than one character and subplot in each movie. Get the comparasions and what exactly I am saying? Explain that to me, ya nutsacks!

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ThedamnBatman
ThedamnBatman - 2/23/2016, 5:46 PM
You drunk Josh? lol, nice satire there ;)
DeusExSponge
DeusExSponge - 2/23/2016, 5:48 PM
I wonder if we'll get another batch of nasty comments.
RandalCabbage
RandalCabbage - 2/23/2016, 5:49 PM
Bane was in the dark knight rises?
ThedamnBatman
ThedamnBatman - 2/23/2016, 5:51 PM
More important mystery, why does it say CFL on the teaser, but on the article it says it was posted by Josh Wilding
DeusExSponge
DeusExSponge - 2/23/2016, 6:13 PM
@aXe - You're right! Heck, Josh's profile doesn't even show the article under his latest posts.
RandalCabbage
RandalCabbage - 2/23/2016, 6:12 PM
lol wilding is now "the hawk"
MrMartyMarvel
MrMartyMarvel - 2/23/2016, 7:07 PM
You need do lay off the booze, Joshy. It does wacky shit to your brain.
SummersClan
SummersClan - 2/23/2016, 7:44 PM
what the [frick]?
FlyntCoal
FlyntCoal - 2/23/2016, 7:59 PM
As a satire this is hilarious. If this is real, jesus christ...
DerekLake
DerekLake - 2/23/2016, 8:00 PM
I am so confused...

But, to answer the question:

Spider-Man 3 and TASM 2 didn't do it as well as TDK. Here's why:

The Dark Knight had not just two villains, but several. You have Joker, the mob, the crooked cops, and then, Two-Face. That's a lot. But the way in which Nolan approached them is what worked.

Joker was the main bad guy. He didn't get real backstory, but screen time and characterization. He is hired by the bad guys from Batman Begins. The mob don't need significant development. The mob coopts the corrupt cops to torch Harvey Dent, who starts out as an ally, and fits integrally into the story in that way. Once Harvey become Two-Face, Joker sets him loose to kill the corrupt cops.

Notice, only Harvey Dent gets development, and that development only really pays off AFTER Joker is defeated. He doesn't get in Joker's way, though their stories are bound up together.

Batman v Superman will possibly have this advantage: Lex is the main bad guy who both manipulates Batman and Superman, studies (and captures?) metahumans, and then creates Doomsday. He gets development, but he's in the background, while Batman, Superman and Doomsday take the foreground. Wonder Woman is also in the background, and it remains to be seen whether she integrates nicely into the plot.

Integration is the key here. The Dark Knight integrated its bad guys into the central plot without them competing for screen time. As you'll see, neither Spider-Man 3 nor TASM 2 did that well.

Spider-Man 3 tried to develop THREE different bad guys separately: Harry Osborn's New Goblin, Eddie Brock's Venom, and Sandman. Individually, they weren't that bad. Sandman worked the best because of the emotional tie to the first film and the resolution. Eddie Brock was developed gradually throughout as a rival to Peter. And Harry had the baggage of Spider-Man's betrayal. So, individually, they were developed quite well. But they failed when put into the same movie. It was too much, considering just how distinct their arcs were.

TASM 2 had a similar problem, in that Harry and Electro had two distinct development arcs that didn't really connect until halfway through, and even then, they didn't connect very well. Ultimately, though, I think the bigger issues came down to the odd approaches to both characters, as well as the poor plot connecting them both. There never seemed to be any good reason why either Electro or Harry would try to kill Spider-Man. And the Parasite/mentally-disturbed approach to Electro, plus the emo/prep approach to Harry, just didn't really work very well.

Again, the major factor is integration. The Spider-Man films didn't do that very well. The Batman films did.
CFL
CFL - 2/23/2016, 8:54 PM
It says "posted by Mark Julian"! Okay, what? Also, where am I seeing this "Josh Wilding"?
TheManFromMars
TheManFromMars - 2/23/2016, 9:27 PM
CFL is a skrull!!!
MattBellissimo
MattBellissimo - 2/24/2016, 6:14 AM
SM3 and ASM2 were basically the same movie. I came to that sad realization a little late in the game.

Also TDK had much better character development. It's got nothing to do with the NUMBER of villains. How the characters are written makes all the difference.
528491
528491 - 2/24/2016, 8:46 AM
I think there are several key factors as to why multiple villains work in some scenarios but not in others, but essentially I think it comes down to the fact that there needs to be a clearly defined hierarchy to the villains (i.e. One "main" villain with several supporting villains) and they need to be part of a single cohesive criminal enterprise that is working towards a single objective as part of a single plotline.

In other words, they can't ALL be full-on costumed supervillains of equal stature, and they cant ALL have their own backstory, and they cant ALL have their own agenda and criminal plan as part of multiple seperate plot threads.

Its kind of hard to explain i guess, but in essence its why something like Netflix Daredevil or Nolan Batman works, but something like Spiderman 3 or Batman Forever doesn't.
Abary
Abary - 2/24/2016, 5:17 PM
Maybe because one of these things had good writing and it balanced all the characters and the other was actual poison feces straight from the devil's asshole.
sKeemAn
sKeemAn - 2/24/2016, 7:11 PM
the TDK trilogy was written better and integrated all the villains.
McGee
McGee - 2/25/2016, 11:54 AM
Maybe because the Dark Knight films are actually the greatest films in the comic book movie genre???
RextheKing
RextheKing - 2/25/2016, 2:52 PM
@McGee - Disagree but every film in TDK trilogy was superior to Spiderman 3 and Tasm2.
MileHighRonin
MileHighRonin - 2/26/2016, 7:59 AM
It's called execution. The Dark Knight made it work plain and simple, the others didn't.
ThunderKat
ThunderKat - 2/28/2016, 9:44 PM
This is essentially a long comment.

If you expounded, you might have mentioned that the studio often forces the director and producer to include characters unnecessary to the story.

Also, Sandman didn't work because of the tie to the first movie. That was his worst facet. He worked because his motivation was relatable and empathetic.

Venom didn't because it was ridiculous. The characterization, context, and motivation were not sound and balanced.
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