Simon Kinberg Reflects On How To Properly Tell The DARK PHOENIX Saga For Film Or Television

Simon Kinberg Reflects On How To Properly Tell The DARK PHOENIX Saga For Film Or Television

Is Marvel's Phoenix Saga with Jean Grey better suited for television or film? Dark Phoenix director and screenwriter Simon Kinberg weighs in.

By MarkJulian - Sep 03, 2023 09:09 AM EST
Filed Under: Dark Phoenix
Source: JoBlo

After a bit of malaise, Fox's X-Men film series appeared to be back on the right track with 2014's X-Men: Days of Future Past. Produced and written by Simon Kinberg, it looked as if Kinberg was being set up to be the studio's lead X-Men creative, as he was also picked to produce and write 2016's X-Men: Apocalypse.

That film was universally panned, but Kinberg was given another chance as he produced, wrote, and directed 2019's Dark Phoenix, the franchise's second attempt to cover the 1980 Dark Phoenix Saga, from writer Chris Claremont and artist John Byrne. 

Unlike Apocalypse, which still turned a small profit despite poor reviews, Dark Phoenix was a commercial flop in addition to being eviscerated by critics and audiences alike.

Since then, Kinberg has moved on to other projects, and the X-Men are now back in the hands of Marvel Studios and Disney.

While speaking to JoBlo about his role as executive producer on Apple TV+’s Invasion, Kinberg reflected on what he would do differently with the Dark Phoenix Saga, in hindsight.

"The idea of doing Dark Phoenix as a series is fascinating because what I felt in constructing the movie, and even initially when writing the movie, was that it required more than one movie to tell that story," said Kinberg in response to a question on whether the Dark Phoenix saga is better suited for the episodic format of television.

Kinberg added, "I think to do it in a way that was really loyal to the comic is to make it as intergalactic as the book and to really get into the Hellfire Club. There’s so many different aspects of the story, right? They have to be excised when you’re telling a two-hour version of it. But, the idea of doing a four-hour, if it were two movies or doing an eight-hour limited series or 10 hours, would really allow you to get into all of the different elements of the original book and original run."

An element of the story that both of Fox's cinematic attempts overlook is the galactic nature of the story. 

In the comics, the Phoenix is a cosmic entity that is considered the embodiment of creation and the nexus of all psionic energy from the past, present, and future. The story involves the M'Kraan Crystal, Starjammers, the Shi'ar Empire, and the Kree and Skrulls. 

None of these elements are ever explored in the films as Fox's adaptations always asserted that the Phoenix's abilities are inherent powers that Jean Grey was born with.

Now that the X-Men are back with Marvel Studios, do you want to see Kevin Feige and co. explore the Phoneix storyline or are you hopeful that lesser-known X-Men storylines are explored? Let us know in the comment section below.

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ReverseFlasher
ReverseFlasher - 9/3/2023, 9:59 AM
Pretty sure he should be reflecting on how NOT to make it.

And if the first two eps of season two are any indication, next he can speak about how NOT to do an invasion show.
Goldboink
Goldboink - 9/3/2023, 1:19 PM
@ReverseFlasher -
Yea, from the guy who screwed it up twice. He shouldn't be allowed to direct a local Dairy Queen commercial.
MosquitoFarmer
MosquitoFarmer - 9/3/2023, 10:01 AM
He botched the story twice. And by the time we got to that movie I just didn't care about the "younger" versions of the characters anymore.
tmp3
tmp3 - 9/3/2023, 10:01 AM
Given how low demand for superhero content has gotten, i would be surprised if they ever make it far enough into MCU X-Men to even do this. Kind of feels like the returning fox men cast might be the last hurrah for a little while for this property
comicfan100
comicfan100 - 9/3/2023, 10:09 AM
@tmp3 - I don't know. I still think the arrival of the X-Men in brightly colored comics accurate costumes is what will revitalize the MCU and superhero content in general. Look at the reaction to Hugh's comics accurate Wolverine costume. It trended that entire week.
tmp3
tmp3 - 9/3/2023, 11:15 AM
@comicfan100 - Considering the kind of output the MCU’s been producing lately, i’m expecting some rick and morty staff-writer and a first time Sundance indie kid in charge of an x-men movie that opens to 62% fresh and then under performs
comicfan100
comicfan100 - 9/3/2023, 11:28 AM
@tmp3 - Maybe. But the Rick and Morty writers who were tapped to pin the next two Avengers movies have been dropped from the project, so maybe this is a sign of things to come.
tmp3
tmp3 - 9/3/2023, 11:40 AM
@comicfan100 - i hope! If they manage to get this a writer as strong as the ones they just got for thunderbolts and blade, i will be incredibly excited - i just don’t know if they will!
comicfan100
comicfan100 - 9/3/2023, 12:21 PM
@tmp3 - Yeah. The Russo's had been throwing their names into the hat to direct before Marvel got Jeff Loveness. And they've been proving they're able to handle ensembles.
RedFury
RedFury - 9/3/2023, 10:02 AM
I think they unfortunately need to let the Pheonix saga rest. At least until they get through the first trilogy of Xmen films. Fox did the Phoenix to death, and I personally don't really want to see it on the big screen again for a good while. Not forever of course. But if they can hold off on it, it would probably be for the betterment of the franchise. It's a good thing the X-Men have some amazing story lines to inspire this next iteration of films. It should be easy to take things in a much different direction than Fox did.
rebellion
rebellion - 9/3/2023, 10:07 AM
dude ruined it twice and runtime was never the worst of it. he is clueless, 355 was also an unwatchable flop. get a different job, you hack.
Usernametaken
Usernametaken - 9/3/2023, 10:08 AM
I completely forgot about the Kinberg Dark Phoenix movie. I never watched it since everybody was pretty clear it was bad and not worth the trouble.


FireandBlood
FireandBlood - 9/3/2023, 10:21 AM
@Usernametaken - Me neither, and probably never will.
GeneralZod
GeneralZod - 9/3/2023, 4:57 PM
@Usernametaken - @PlusUltra Actually, it is worth watching. For his directorial debut, Kinberg's technical ability is surprisingly good. The film is well-paced, the tension is felt from start to finish, the Hans Zimmer soundtrack is full of emotion, one of his best works. The problem with the film is that with its 90-minute run time, it minimizes the epic Dark Phoenix saga, so key story points are rushed -- you are left as a viewer wanting a lot more. I'm sure your time is extremely valuable, but, IMO, you are not wasting it watching Kinberg Dark Phoenix.
AmazingFILMporg
AmazingFILMporg - 9/4/2023, 3:47 AM
@Usernametaken -

It's terrible. I would watch it for educational purposes. How not to end a series and how not to rush an iconic story.😬
Slotherin
Slotherin - 9/4/2023, 1:25 PM
@Usernametaken - @PlusUltra
I'm with @GeneralZod on this one... It actually is worth a watch.
It's not great, it's got heavy flaws, but there are some things that work for it and dare I say some of it actually is enjoyable while it is overall messy.
dragon316
dragon316 - 9/3/2023, 10:13 AM
Which book? Original or ultimate version of book ultimate version was intersting not to bad
TheManWithoutFear
TheManWithoutFear - 9/3/2023, 10:14 AM
Haha it's a classic Kinberg article! I thought/hoped/prayed these were extinct. But here he is. The old "I got it wrong I would do this next time" repeated forever, no matter how many movies this hack gets, because he is clueless about the X-Men.
ProfessorWhy
ProfessorWhy - 9/3/2023, 10:18 AM
The Dark Phoenix Saga should not be in consideration for the X-men reboot. There are so many other stories
Taonrey
Taonrey - 9/3/2023, 10:46 AM
@ProfessorWhy - it won't be, they already shown with Spidey that they don't want to redo past stories
dagenspear
dagenspear - 9/3/2023, 11:27 AM
@Taonrey - Except for, mostly, all the past villains they redid in No Way Home.
Usernametaken
Usernametaken - 9/3/2023, 12:29 PM
@ProfessorWhy - would be nice if superhero movies would just stay away from "the world is going to end stories" altogether and focus on smaller more character driven stories.
Slotherin
Slotherin - 9/4/2023, 1:26 PM
@dagenspear - they brought the villains back, but the plots themselves weren't really retread.
BobbyDrake
BobbyDrake - 9/3/2023, 10:27 AM
Release the Kinberg cut???
abd00bie
abd00bie - 9/3/2023, 2:02 PM
@BobbyDrake - There is no Kinberg cut lol the plan was to have Hellfire Club and the Shi'ar and it was meant to be two parts, to his credit. Then the merger took place and he was told to make only one movie and everything else had to be scrapped. And Feige told him to change Phoenix's orange fire because it was too similar to Captain Marvel and Skrulls were off limits, so he changed the alien race to D'Bari. At this point I would have canceled the movie lol
Taonrey
Taonrey - 9/3/2023, 10:45 AM
Can't believe fox let this moron mess up the same story twice
dagenspear
dagenspear - 9/3/2023, 11:26 AM
@Taonrey - LORD willing, insulting isn't right.
LeonNova
LeonNova - 9/3/2023, 10:45 AM
Would love to see Dark Phoenix done right on the big screen, but after this guy butchered it twice, I don’t imagine Marvel is bringing it back again. Then he ruined Apocalypse too. At least he never got his mitts on Mr. Sinister.
RolandD
RolandD - 9/3/2023, 10:47 AM
I’m not sure he is the last person I would ask this question, but. . . . .
Lokiwasright
Lokiwasright - 9/3/2023, 10:56 AM
I liked both movies.

Lokiwasright
Lokiwasright - 9/3/2023, 11:03 AM
Foxmen had a better serious consistent tone than mcu. Mcu was filled with pointless jokes that sort of ruins certain moments.

AmazingFILMporg
AmazingFILMporg - 9/4/2023, 3:48 AM
@Lokiwasright -


Nope🤡🤣🤡
Slotherin
Slotherin - 9/4/2023, 1:27 PM
@Lokiwasright - uh.... Did you watch X3? Or X-Men Origins? They were both kinda goofy.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 9/3/2023, 11:05 AM
The thing that people tend to overlook when talking about a Dark Phoenix movie is the build up. You can't skip that. The build up to Jean losing control and turning evil is just as important, if not more important than the actual turn itself.

And the build up should be lengthy. It should be done in trilogies.

X-Men trilogy one should be an introduction of mutants and the X-Men to the MCU. It should lay the ground work for mutants interacting with humans and the prejudice that exists. First movie is humans creating Sentinels. Second movie is Magneto's response and declaration of war against the humans for creating mutant hunting robots. And 3rd is the revelation of Sinister pulling the strings in preparation of Apocalypse's survival of the fittest war.

Then, if they want to do Phoenix, Jean should get the Phoenix Force in the first movie of the next trilogy. But she should spend several movies just being Phoenix. Not Dark Phoenix. Phoenix. The good guy. The hero. The overpowered team member that seems to get more and more powerful which each movie. They can still fight their normal villains during this time. Arcade, Omega Red, Savage Land, whatever. Just make normal X-Men movies with Jean as Phoenix.
They wouldn't necessarily focus on her as the story, but we could see her developing into something more.

Then in the next trilogy we see her starting to lose control in the first movie. This is where the Hellfire Club comes in. The X-Men get captured and it ends there. Second movie is the X-Men escaping and defeating the Hellfire Club with Jean losing control due to Mastermind screwing with her head. We see her completely wipe his mind and turn him into a vegetable, and she easily defeats White Queen, nearly killing her. At the very end of the second movie we see her turn evil for the first time and fly off into space as the cliff hanger.

The 3rd movie begins with Dark Phoenix destroying a planet full of an innocent and peaceful alien species. Then the Shi'ar show up, take the X-Men to their empire. They explain what the Phoenix Force is and how it corrupts everyone that's ever held it. They say they need to kill Jean to stop her from killing the universe. The X-Men challenge the Imperial Guard to a fight with the winner being the ones to decide Jean's fate. The X-Men lose, Jean realizes she can't control herself anymore, and she sacrifices herself.

That's it. You cannot do this series without the buildup. You cannot do it in one season of shows or in a two part movie. It takes time to do this properly. The time as Jean being Phoenix is necessary to show how powerful she is becoming. It's needed for the viewers to connect to her and the troubles she's going through. Otherwise when she turns evil half the impact of it is instantly lost.
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