Why it is OBVIOUS that Hulk will be a villain in The Avengers...

Why it is OBVIOUS that Hulk will be a villain in The Avengers...

After finding so many people still lost on the issue of who the villain(s?) will be, I choose stop for a second and explain why Marvel has made it clear from the beginning that Hulk will be a threat to the Avengers.

Editorial Opinion
By SmokinIndo - Feb 13, 2011 09:02 AM EST
Filed Under: Avengers

Let's go back to The Incredible Hulk, one the bases for Marvel's Cinematic Universe. In the movie, the primary antagonist to Bruce Banner as well as the Hulk was NOT the Abomination. It was General Ross and the United States army. To this day, General Ross has been on a ruthless hunt for Hulk's blood, and nothing, not even his own daughter, has managed to stop him.

Let's fast forward to one of the most epic scenes in CBM history, where Tony Stark (a.k.a Iron Man) effortlessly walks into Hulk's movie to discuss a "team" they're forming. Cue the massive applause and endless chatter about the Avengers movie. To your average audience member this clearly means that Hulk will be teaming up with Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America. Well guess what? They're DEAD wrong. And so are you.

Frankly, it makes no sense for Iron Man to walk up to General Ross, the Hulk's most ruthless nemesis, and tell him that he wants to be an ally with his enemy. If anything, Tony Stark wants to ally with General Ross. But let's assume for a second that Hulk WAS joining the Avengers. That means that essentially Tony Stark said something like this:

Tony Stark: Hey General. What if I told you that we're putting a team together, and we want Hulk to be a member? Is it ok if we borrow him from you for a second? Oh, I understand that he's a convicted war criminal, as well as one of the biggest domestic threats this country has ever seen, and you have every authority in the world to hunt him down, but I firmly believe that he's a good person on the inside... So how about granting him a little amnesty. What do you say?

General Ross: %#$@ off!


Now granted, we never saw Ross's reaction. But I imagine it would be something like that if Tony Stark really wanted to be friends with the Hulk. It would also end with General Ross possibly detaining Tony Stark for conspiring to aid a convicted fugitive.

It is almost certain that the reason why Tony Stark was visiting General Ross was to discuss the fact that they both share a common enemy, and that this team they're forming is making him their number one target. In the comics, Hulk is a misunderstood creature who just wants to be left alone. Most people don't realize this and target him anyway. Tony Stark often finds himself at odds with the Hulk. (which is precisely why he built the Hulkbuster armor.) The heroes of the Marvel Universe have also skirmished with Hulk a countless number of times before. So it's not unusual for Hulk to be a bad guy in the movie.

If at first the Avengers wanted Hulk to be an ally, that would lead to some serious conflict between the Avengers, SHIELD, and the United States army. And yes, SHIELD is an enemy of the Hulk. Spoilers follow. Highlight them to read.

In the leaked Thor script, the Professor mentions a pioneer in gamma radiation, and how the second that SHIELD got involved, he never heard from him again. This makes it sound like SHIELD wanted to put Bruce Banner into custody.

Now, nothing doesn't say that later on in The Avengers, Iron Man and his team WILL find themselves at odds with SHIELD, and that Hulk WILL ally with the Avengers. As a matter of fact, that would be a VERY good way for the Avengers to split away from SHIELD and form their own independent team. It would also be a good way to create conflict with the team. Iron Man firmly believes in public safety over civil liberties. Captain America, on the other hand, is a staunch defender of just the opposite. This could lead to our first real taste of a Civil War movie....

Everything that we've seen so far points to Hulk being a villain in The Avengers. From the hints we've gotten from the cast members, to the rumors that we've heard, to the fact that we don't see Hulk anywhere on the promotional images. Hopefully, Hulk will not be the only villain in the movie. I'm dying to see Loki factor in as well. But I'm more than certain that Hulk is going to be a major threat to Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor come 2012 when they all join on the big screen together.

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Exiles
Exiles - 2/13/2011, 10:02 AM
all of your points are valid, but all of it is pure speculation like everything else. One things for sure wheather hulk teams up with avengers or is the main villain its going to be great
DCMarvelFreshman
DCMarvelFreshman - 2/13/2011, 10:15 AM
Yeah, this we know. Though, theres IS gonna be twist to the story. It's the nature of Hulk to come off as a villain, but evidently, he won't be the only one.
Duhdaduh
Duhdaduh - 2/13/2011, 10:27 AM
yeah i hope loki is in there as well. i remember someone saying someone about loki being on earth dressed in a green business suit, i like that idea

SKRULLS for no. 2!!
blueballs
blueballs - 2/13/2011, 10:36 AM
Or maybe, just maybe Tony is sorta working for SHIELD and I'm pretty sure SHIELD being such a secretive government funded group would outrank General Ross and his government funded military. Ross still has to follow orders seeing as he works for the government. Maybe when Tony met Ross at the bar he was telling him to back off the Hulk is their problem now.
Unreal2k9
Unreal2k9 - 2/13/2011, 10:52 AM
@Blueballs That's very plausible
HulkPool
HulkPool - 2/13/2011, 10:53 AM
EPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PaulRom
PaulRom - 2/13/2011, 11:29 AM
@teabag Bane is in Batman 3, not The Avengers. -face palm-
@grif Good observation.
Good article indoraptor. You make some great points that I must agree with.
WhiteDragon66
WhiteDragon66 - 2/13/2011, 11:37 AM
WELL IT WIOULD BE ACCURURATE TO THE BOOKS SO LETS SEE
Exiles
Exiles - 2/13/2011, 12:46 PM
the main focus of the movie should be the relationship between the avengers, but that doesn't mean them sitting around a table talking
marvel72
marvel72 - 2/13/2011, 3:09 PM
the avengers vs loki,the enchantress with a controlled hulk.
thunderforce
thunderforce - 2/13/2011, 3:12 PM
The Hulk will be an Avenger , just like the animated show , that doesn't mean they won't have a little Thor vs Hulk action I think Marvel knows they have to scrap a little just like the animated show , I think that show is the set up for how the avengers will interact .
SmokinIndo
SmokinIndo - 2/13/2011, 4:05 PM
@thunderforce

Read my post and understand WHY Hulk will be a threat. Later on he may become an member, but he will definitely start out as a villain fighting the Avengers.

I'm not stating what I want to see. I'm stating what we will see.
manymade1
manymade1 - 2/13/2011, 4:34 PM
Although it makes sense, how are we gonna see the Hulk work witht the Avengers if hes the villian?
xBlaze96x
xBlaze96x - 2/13/2011, 6:48 PM
if Iron Man 3 comes after avengers..then maybe we will have a mandarin cameo in the end...
Coldblood6
Coldblood6 - 2/14/2011, 3:44 AM
Gotta say I agree with Indoraptor12 here.

The Avengers first mission will be to take down the Hulk. In the comics that is how they came together. I hope this is so and that this fight is E.P.I.C.!!! It needs to be the whole team (not just Thor) against him or maybe they can do it just like the Ultimates where the initial team is fighting him and getting beaten and then Thor arrives to turn the tide of the battle. really hoping IM goes from regular armour to Hulkbuster armour in the midst of this fight.

I then think with Banner captured the team, maybe even SHIELD will come to realise that he has been wrongly believed to be a villain and they will work with Banner to help him become a Banner controlled Hulk who will then join the team to face a greater threat. I'm hoping that greater threat will be the Hydra terrorist organization whose leader (Strucker perhaps) is being guided by Loki who has his own ulterior motives and is actually using Hydra to further his own motives.

I am really hoping that is the case and that the whole movie is not the Hulk (+/- Loki) as a villain.

One thing that has me worried about this movie and how grandiose it will be is the budget. The last I heard Marvel studios wanted it to be similar to IM2 whihc is 200 million. I think this is ridiculous and this movie needs a budget of 250-300 million to reach its potential. With that lower number I cannot see the story being more than the hulk alone as a villain and no other grand threat and thus the movie will be a bit of a letdown.
Orphix
Orphix - 2/14/2011, 4:20 AM
Coldblood6 @ I am not sure but I think The Avengers is the only Marvel Studio release of 2012. Which kind of suggests they will be able to put as much budget as they can into this.

One film to make and market should free up a large amount of cash.

As for the Hulk he will become part of the team...tho probably reluctantly. The scene in which Stark and Ross talk has them both agreeing that they BOTH have problems. And the inference is a kind of 'you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours'. I am pretty sure SHIELD want banner and his science for themselves and that Ross can help them get it if SHIELD help him capture the Hulk. I see the Hulk showing up like the cavalry in the end fight sequence (maybe with Stark) to save the rest.

To be fair tho I think this will be only the first act of the film and the rest of it will be dealing with AIM/HYDRA and the re-emergance of the Cosmic Cube of some other cosmically powered superweapon!!!
StrangerX
StrangerX - 2/14/2011, 6:27 AM
I don't mind this at all. Hulk makes for a better bad guy anyway.
Sturmpionier
Sturmpionier - 2/14/2011, 7:12 AM
Avengers fight Hulk, capture him. Real villain(s) reveal themselves. SHIELD seen as duplicitous. Fury allows Hulk to help Avengers who are hard pressed. Avengers win. Hulk bails. Avengers form their own team. Hawkeye bails on SHIELD to join. Black Widow, not so much.

My take = Hulk is the villain, then an ally, then goes to do TV, perhaps to a soulful piano solo.
Coldblood6
Coldblood6 - 2/14/2011, 7:56 AM
@ This is only what I heard on a website somewhere. No confirmation. However with regards to your point, how much money gets put to the budget is not totally dependent on how much they have but rather how much the studio execs and the investors are willing to risk. When X-men was being made the budget was initially 125 million then the stuio decided that that was too risky a sum and so cut it to 75 million. This severely hampered the plans, e.g., beast was then written out of the script.

Now I know Marvel studios is not Fox, but to these companies the bottom line is always money. I personally feel that the Avengers needs to far more grandiose in scope and scale than IM2 so I really hope that this is not true. Then again it's not my 300 million dollars.

I just hope the studio has a sense of pride and realise that the Avengers needs to be the greatest CBM ever and to do that it needs an appropriate budget.
ROBBEATZZZ
ROBBEATZZZ - 2/14/2011, 10:47 AM
DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THAT SHIELD WAS TRAKING BANNERS EMAILS TO MR BLUE?..AKA DR STERNS?..AKA THE LEADER?

YES!! HULK WILL BE ONE OF THEIR 1ST ISSUES..SEEMS THOR HAS ISSUES WITH SHIELD @ FIRST ALSO..

@ THE TIME TONY TALKS 2 ROSS HE IS CLEARLY ON BOARD WITH THE AVENGER INITIATIVE. DURING IRONMAN 2 TONY WAS LIKE" NO I DONT WANNA JOIN UR BOYBAND"
ROBBEATZZZ
ROBBEATZZZ - 2/14/2011, 11:07 AM
SEEMS LOKI USES HULK AS REVENGE ON THOR AND MIDGARD..LOKI SEES SHIELD AND THE AVENGERS INTREST IN HULK..HE SEES HOW POWERFUL HULK CAN BE..HE DECIDES 2 MANIPULATE THINGS 4 THE WORST...BUT STILL I THINK SOMETHING ELSE HAS FURYS ATTENTION..LIKE HYDRA COMING BAK ( FINDING CAP IS THE ANSWER)OR SOMETHING OF GREATER THREAT..THOR JOINING WASNT PLANNED..THAT PROBLEM LITERALY FELL OUT THE SKY.. THOR WILL MAKE HIMSELF AN ALLY TO COULSON BEFORE HE RETURNS TO ASGARD
Coldblood6
Coldblood6 - 2/14/2011, 1:09 PM
The post above should start: @ Orphix

Sorry.
Spideyrules
Spideyrules - 2/14/2011, 1:48 PM
BULL!! Even if your right ITS BULL S***!! Hulk shouldn't be the villain, he should be one of the founding Avengers like in the comics and help out a little.
RobJigga
RobJigga - 2/14/2011, 4:36 PM
problem is,if hulks bad guy,how cap and iron man are involved? Ok,i get it shield will ask stark for help,thor will find some reason to track loki.But cap...what would be the reason.Shields getting the crap kicked out of them and cap comes in?
SuperHeroDude666
SuperHeroDude666 - 2/14/2011, 5:41 PM
HULK IS NOT A VILLIAN!!!
RaMan
RaMan - 2/14/2011, 7:15 PM
@SuperHeroDude666: HULK IS NOT A VILLIAN!!!

Oh..and for the record you're right about Hulk. Hulk was never a villain but an anti-hero who mind was controlled by a villain (Loki) to fight the Avengers heroes and later becomes a hero to fight the real foes just like he was in TIH towards the end of the movie when he defeats Abomination and saves the town of Harlem.

Being interviewed for the March issue of SFX Magazine, Marvel Studios' President of Production Kevin Feige confirmed this line-up.

EVEN MARVEL's PRESIDENT, KEVIN FEIGE ADMITS HULK AS AN AVENGER: "It's three people - four including the Hulk; five including Nick Fury - who you've seen before in other movies, coming together for the very first time," Feige said.

Why would Hulk be the main villain? I believe that he is controlled by Loki, and later unites with the Avengers but there may very likely be other villains involved (i.e-Abomination, The Leader, HYDRA, Mandarin) The Avengers teaser trailers clearly says "And there came a day, a day unlike any other. When Earth's Mightiest Heroes found themselves united against a common threat(possibly Hulk). To fight the foes (Loki, Abomination, HYDRA,or maaaaaaybe Skrulls.) no single super hero could withstand..."

Just listen to the video and check for yourselves:
Coldblood6
Coldblood6 - 2/15/2011, 12:11 PM
To the Hulk fans angry at the concept; what we are saying is that he is going to be misconstrued as the villain by a greater real threat, probably Loki (+/- allies), and then will join the team as member.

This is precisely how the AVENGERS originally started and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it is so.

What I don't want is the AVENGERS only fighting Hulk in the movie, which with a small budget is all we may get. In the second half of the movie I want to see them with Hulk as a member go up against a major force, e.g.,:
- a high tech Hydra terrorist group
- Loki and a collection of the dark forces of the Nine Realms
- A vanguard unit of the Kree armada
- An Atlantis invasion
- Terminus
something like these. The LOTR trilogy showed how mega-battles can be done with focusing of individual heroics.

This movie needs to so awesome that when you walk out the first time all you want to do is walk right back to see it again!
RaMan
RaMan - 2/15/2011, 5:37 PM
@Coldblood6: "this movie needs a budget of 250-300 million to reach its potential. With that lower number I cannot see the story being more than the hulk alone as a villain and no other grand threat and thus the movie will be a bit of a letdown."


The movie will very likely cost around 200 mil but not 250 mil. Avatar is the 7th highest budgeted film and it was at 237 mil considering a colony of blue people were CGI. The 3rd Pirates of the Caribbean movie is the most expensive of all time ($300 mil)and that was becuz with success with the previous films Disney could afford it and the same goes with the Harry Potter film The Half Blood Prince which cost $250 mil but it made up for that becuz of its popularity and made $301 mil.

Transformers 2 cost $210 mil so for these reasons I see that Avengers will cost anywhere between $200 to $230 mil and no more than that and should do well if the story is good with the kind of action everyone is hoping for. I say it will do $400 mil. especially when you have Iron Man and Thor and Cap when they succeed in the box office this summer.
Can't wait!! The summer movies are going to rock!!!

sofakinghigh
sofakinghigh - 2/18/2011, 11:05 AM
@barber2323

Dude stop writing spoilers ffs. Looks like that leaked script could well be real and i for one dont wanna know what happens at the end of Thor.

ciscokid56
ciscokid56 - 7/23/2011, 6:57 PM
I think you're dead wrong. I think we're going to see something on a much larger scale than the basic plot of the classic Avengers #1.

How are you going to truly involve Hawkeye, The Black Widow, and even Cap, in a no-holds barred, 2 hour battle with 'ol green skin?....Is Hawkeye gonna shoot 'im with a Big Green Cabbage Patch Doll arrow ?

My dark-horse guess is that the Hulk may somehow pull their collective asses out of some sort of an earth-shattering (possibly literally) bind...

And yes, I spotted the original Human Torch (and the bi-frost) in CATFA!

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