Batman and Joker: Understanding the Real Reason Joker is Insane and Batman is Immortal

Batman and Joker: Understanding the Real Reason Joker is Insane and Batman is Immortal

An argument for why Batman is immortal as long as Joker lives.

Editorial Opinion
By camelcorpse78 - Jul 12, 2015 01:07 PM EST
Filed Under: Batman

Note:
artwork generously provided by Eric Muller of Hand in Hand Artworks.


1. Introduction

            Given the hype and controversy surrounding Jared Leto's upcoming portrayal of Joker in DC's Suicide Squad, it's safe to say Joker is as present in the public's consciousness as he has ever been. Instead of covering the character's long history with Batman, therefore, this article will assume a basic working knowledge of the famous duo and skip straight to addressing two of the bigger debates among the fandom: (1) is Joker sane or crazy?, and (2) does Joker love or hate Batman? By the end of this article, I hope to demonstrate the answer to both questions is 'yes'. More than this, I hope to provide some insight into how Joker can be both sane and crazy, and simultaneously love and loathe Batman.

            Before delving into the main body of this article, however, it is first necessary to establish the groundwork everything else rests on. It is important to note I am working under the assumption that, like many others have suggested before me, Batman and Joker's interactions are far less about two human beings interacting than they are about the titan clash of two very different worldviews. Under this assumption, Batman and Joker can be viewed as personifications of particular worldviews, and their physical and verbal confrontations designed by comic writers and artists to convey truths about these worldviews and their (in)compatibility with each other. With this in mind, I will cite the most common and/or well-received comic titles in order to construct Batman and Joker's worldviews, provide an argument for how Joker can act consistent with his worldview while appearing to violate it, and explain both Joker and Batman's paradoxes.
 
2. Joker's Worldview: The World is Chaos
            Joker's worldview can be summarized in a single word: chaos. Joker perceives the world to be a jumble of meaningless occurrences where nothing is 'right' or 'wrong', but rather 'is' or 'isn't'. Similarly, Joker's universe is one devoid of logic and lacking explanations. It has no consistency or rulebook people can rely on to know what to expect next. Instead, Joker believes nothing causes anything. People act, but their actions have no consequence on their current or future experiences. Evidence of this can be found in the following quotes:
 
Joker [to Riddler]: "I don't get you, Edward. Yer motivations - you're wise, but your why's are completely lost on me"
(Joker by Brian Azzarello)
 
Harley: "You bit my ear!...Why?"
Joker: "The asking of the question shows your true weakness. You're still a creature of humanity, not instinct. And because of that, you are weak."
(The Joker: Death of the Family by Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo)
 
Joker doesn't believe in "why's" because they explain the reason why something happens, and he doesn't believe anything happens for a reason. Alternatively, if someone does something out of instinct, they do it because that's the way they are and they cannot possibly act otherwise. Instincts simply are, or aren't, and cannot be further understood or explained.


Madness is the Emergency Exit by VVernacatola

Joker: "Ladies and gentlemen! You've read about it in the newspapers! Now, shudder as you observe, before your very eyes, that most rare and tragic of nature's mistakes! I give you...the average man! Physically unremarkable, it has instead a deformed set of values. Notice the hideously bloated sense of humanity's importance. The club-footed social conscience and the withered optimism...most repulsive of all, are its frail and useless notion of order and sanity. If too much weight is place upon them...they snap."
(The Killing Joke by Alan Moore)
 
Joker: "You'll find all the world's a zoo"
(The Joker: Death of the Family by Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo)
 
Joker considers the universe a zoo because he views people, like animals, as creatures of instinct. Another similarity between people and animals is that humans fail to realize how insignificant their actions are in the grand scheme of things. Like any other species, "human existence is mad, random, and pointless" (The Killing Joke by Alan Moore).

            In one encounter with a henchman, Joker tells the henchman (Jonny) that he doesn't have any problems:
 
Joker: "you're late"
Jonny: "that a problem?"
Joker: "Jonny, Jonny...[kicks Jonny]...I don't have any problems"
(Joker by Brian Azzarello)
 
Although simple on the surface, this concept of 'problems' is important. If we accept that a 'problem' is anything a human being thinks will delay or altogether prevent a desired outcome from occurring, then Joker can be interpreted as challenging Jonny's notion that a human being's actions can cause anything. In Joker's world, human beings are at the mercy of whatever is going to happen, and no amount of human agency or effort can influence the future. The future simply is, and is immutable. According to Joker, then, chaos is a current too strong for any human to swim or stand against.


Joker and Harley 1942 by Ruiz Burgos

            Joker says something similar in Alan Moore's The Killing Joke, when he says:

Joker: "Memories are what our reason is based upon. If we can't face them, we deny reason itself. Although why not? We aren't contractually tied down to rationality! There is no sanity clause! So when you find yourself locked onto an unpleasant train of thought, heading for the places in your past where the screaming is unbearable, remember there's always madness. Madness is the emergency exit...You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened. You can lock them away...forever."
 
In this passage Joker praises the merits of "madness", a plausible consequence of struggling to cope with memories of traumatic experiences. Instead of trying to understand or interpret these horrifying experiences, Joker advocates for abandoning the human tendency to label everything and stepping outside of the simplistic good/bad paradigm. If everything is chaos and nothing means anything, Joker argues humans would find relief in knowing they never truly had traumatic experiences - they simply had experiences. When Joker says "we aren't contractually tied down to rationality!", he is saying there is no reason for humans to impose labels on experiences (or the rest of the world) other than that it has become a human tradition. Instead, humans should let go of their need for control and order and embrace madness by admitting the world and human interactions with the world are neither 'good' nor 'bad'; 'desirable' or 'undesirable'. Instead, they simply are.


The Joker by ryanbrown-colour

            Joker demonstrates his commitment to this worldview whenever he gets pummeled by Batman:
 
Batman: "This psychopath is LAUGHING. I'm about to break his bones and all I can hear is his laughter echoing throughout the whole house..."
(The Man Who Laughs by Ed Brubaker)
 
Instead of crying out in pain or begging for mercy - appropriate responses from someone about to suffer - Joker breaks out into a fit of laughter. This act shows he neither prefers to be beaten nor unbeaten. Being beaten is not something unpleasant to be avoided; rather, pain, like anything else, simply is.

            For humans who refuse to abandon labels or the notion that they can produce desired outcomes - rationality, in short - Joker argues they are destined to have their desires endlessly thwarted like Tantalus from Greek mythology. Tantalus was condemned to extreme thirst and hunger, his every move designed to satisfy his desires only further removing water and food from his reach. For humans striving to cause desired outcomes in their lives, Joker believes they will only suffer negative consequences ('negative' according to rational labels). The solution, as Joker reveals, is for individuals to use these moments of disappointment to: (1) recognize the meaningless of everything, and (2) stop preferring one outcome over another.

            The following quotes serve to illustrate this:
 
Joker [to Batman]: "It's all a joke! Everything anybody ever valued or struggled for...It's all a monstrous, demented gag!"
(The Killing Joke by Alan Moore)
 
Joker: "Perhaps he'll get a little livelier once he's had a chance to think his situation over...to reflect upon life, and all its random injustice"
(The Killing Joke by Alan Moore)
 
Joker: "Faced with the inescapable fact that human existence is mad, random and pointless, one in eight of them crack up and go stark slavering buggo! Who can blame them? In a world as psychotic as this...any other response would be crazy!"
(The Killing Joke by Alan Moore)


Joker by VVernacatola

Joker's worldview, then, is one that continually offers individuals the opportunity to recognize the futility of their actions and concede their helplessness. Only when an individual steps outside of labeling can they hope to escape undesirable outcomes. It is important to note here that Joker is not saying humans will experience different events after realizing everything is meaningless, only that they won't experience undesirable events anymore, because they no longer believe some experiences are more or less desirable than others. The change is in the individual's cognitive interpretation of their experiences rather than an actual physical change in their experiences.
 
3. Joker's Interactions With Others (Except Batman)
            An observant reader will notice the apparent discrepancy between Joker's worldview, where people who desire things can never achieve what they desire, and Joker's numerous attempts to cause what appear to be desired outcomes. For example, throughout the comics Joker touts the superiority of his worldview and tries converting others to his worldview, often killing those who don't share his perspective. Just as Joker's current worldview is the product of "one bad day", as he acknowledges in The Killing Joke, he can often be seen placing others in similar circumstances to see if they will come to the same realization he did - that everything is meaningless. An important distinction here, however, is that while Joker offers people the chance to convert to his worldview, he does not appear overly concerned with their responses. In other words, Joker does not appear to consider one outcome more desirable than another; he simply places others in a position to choose.

            For example:
 
Joker: "I 'came back' what?"
Harley: "Different."
Joker: "Different?"
Harley: "Yeah, you were a monster!"
Joker: "No, Harley! What I am is finally fully realized. And now you're about to join me. This way we can be together...forever! But first you need a refresher course. Then I'm gonna give you the best chemical peel you ever had."
(Death of the Family by Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo)
 

Harley Quinn by artofJEPROX

In this passage, Joker is saying Harley can continue existing with Joker as long as she adopts his worldview. The "chemical peel" signifies baptism into Joker's worldview. Later, Joker continues the religious symbolism when he presents himself as a missionary to Red Hood:
 
Joker: "I want you to think of me as more of a beacon - A lighthouse helping you through a storm of the soul. I'm here to bring illumination to your life - a little clarity."
(Death of the Family by Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo)
 
Joker confront Batgirl in the same comic:
 
Joker: "I'll see you there soon, darling. Will miss you like oxygen."
Batgirl: "I'm not Batman, Joker. The rules no longer apply here. Do you know that?"
Joker: "I know. I'm proud of you."
Joker [to Gordon's wife, being held hostage, after Batgirl has left]: "You know, that girl is rife with potential."
 
Although Batgirl rejects Joker's worldview, Joker takes the rejection in stride, noting she has "potential" because, unlike Batman, she is willing to kill him.

            At one point in Death of the Family, Joker kills a member of the circus named Jimmy because "he's a 'knock-off'..." and "looked like him". Although Jimmy physically looked like Joker, he was killed because he didn't look like Joker inside. This raises an important point, and one that goes a long way toward explaining Joker's homicidal tendencies. Joker is out to eradicate all opposing worldviews by any means necessary, whether through conversion or killing.


All Hail the Crown Prince by 13wishes

            By saying Joker is out to eradicate all opposing worldviews, it is important to note this is not the same as saying Joker desires to kill people who disagree with his worldview. If Joker did desire to kill people who refused to convert to his worldview, then by his own worldview he shouldn't be able to kill them. As a result, we must assume that while Joker clearly kills people who don't share his worldview, he must not care if they live or die. This appears true, since Joker doesn't appear disturbed in instances where someone continues living when assumed dead (i.e. Commissioner Gordon in the 2008 The Dark Knight film). Joker's schemes succeed, ironically, because he doesn't care if they are successful.

            If Joker doesn't desire to kill people who refuse to share his worldview, then he must be compelled to kill them as a result of his very nature. In other words, by the very act of being Joker, he is compelled to eradicate all opposing worldviews. This becomes apparent in an exchange between Joker and Harley Quinn in Death of the Family:
 
Harley: "Good seeing you. I'll let myself out."
Joker: "Not so fast, darling. You haven't even said hello to the kids. They've missed their mommy."
Harley: "What have you done to Bud and Lou?"
Joker: "I helped them reach their full potential. Something I could never accomplish with you."
Harley: "They're rabid. You purposely gave them rabies. How could you? We raised them since they were pups!"
Joker: "Because, like me, they are now free to be what they really are. Pure animal instinct. It's a thing of beauty, as you are about to find out. Pain is removed. As is emotion. You're able to be something more than what you were. The [chemical] bath we both took was only the first step. I see that now. But when I removed my face, I got rid of any traces of humanity I still held onto. I am now, much like Bud and Lou, pure instinct. All my weaknesses have been stripped away. And all I wanted to do was share it with you."
 

Joker and Harley by Optronyx

As Joker says, he is "pure instinct", led to eradicate anything that is not like him. This point is further supported by the following quotes:
 
Batgirl [as narrator]: "It's the Joker. He'll kill anyone. He can't be anything else."
(The Joker: Death of the Family by Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo)
 
Police Officer: "Before the guards could rumble out of their hub here, he sprayed them with a machine gun. Got a statement from one who survived, said it was this Joker character, for sure. Said he didn't even look at them, like killing them wasn't even important."
(The Man Who Laughs by Ed Brubaker)
 
            In The Dark Knight Returns, Joker tells a TV host he doesn't "keep count" of how many people he has killed. This suggests his victims' deaths are every bit as meaningless as their lives. Batman confirms this in The Man Who Laughs when he describes Joker as someone who "kills with almost every breath he takes." Joker's killing of others is involuntary - a reflex, like breathing - and a consequence of his existence. As long as Joker is alive, he will continue eradicating anything that isn't like him. This compulsion (or instinct) to eradicate anything not like him can take the form of trying to convert others, or the more extreme version of killing them.

            Joker's laughing gas can be viewed as a symbolic expression of this. Victims of the laughing gas remain conscious, witnessing the chaos creeping over them, and come to embrace Joker's worldview in the final seconds before their death. The terrifying grin produced by the laughing gas is a physical representation of the change that has taken place inside, from sanity to insanity, and by the end they have converted, becoming like Joker. This is why Raya's body rejects the toxin that produces the deadly smile in Death of the Family - she rejects Joker's worldview, and therefore doesn't bear his mark.


The Joker by yoyaan

            As Joker noted of a TV audience in The Dark Knight Returns, "So many faces - so different from another. So few smiles..." In other words, of all the people in the audience, few shared his worldview. After releasing his smile gas on the crowd, however, Joker observes, "So many smiles. So many faces. All the same."
 
4. Batman and Joker: The Only Two That Matter
            Although Joker is compelled by instinct to try converting others to his worldview, he demonstrates little faith in their ability or willingness to convert. As Joker tells Nightwing:
 
Joker [to Nightwing]: "More than any of the others, you put your faith in relationships. You insist on surrounding yourself with people. But people will always let you down."
(The Joker: Death of the Family by Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo)
 
Even the Gotham lowlifes who appear to hold Joker's worldview are weak-willed and betray their convictions in the end. Joker's henchmen, when confronted by Batman and sensing pain or death approaching, always beg for mercy or try to escape, showing they have a desired (or preferred) outcome. Harley Quinn, too, is weak-willed. She desires Mr. J. to love her, and because of this desired outcome (that they be together), demonstrates she is incompatible with Joker, who needs everything to be like him or cease existing. For these reasons, Joker is condemned to be the only individual who holds his worldview.

Darkest Knight by Alex Bayliss

Darkest Knight by Alex Bayliss          

In contrast with Joker's worldview, which instinctually strives to eradicate all opposing worldviews, Batman's worldview acknowledges there is a single 'correct' way to interpret the world, but prescribes tolerance for all opposing worldviews. As Batman states in The Killing Joke:
 
Batman [to Joker]: "Do you understand? I don't want to hurt you. I don't want either of us to end up killing the other...But we're both running out of alternatives...and we both know it."
 
Batman holds the conviction that if he were to censor the most offensive worldview (Joker's, which demands all other views cease existing), he would have destroyed his own worldview, thereby becoming like Joker. Besides destroying his own worldview and Joker's, Batman would also have created a new 'most offensive' worldview that he would be tempted to censor by the same logic. In this way, censoring one worldview would result in a chain-reaction where: (1)  the most offensive opposing worldview is censored, (2) the second most offensive worldview before now becomes the current most offensive worldview, and (3) Batman is required to censor this new most offensive worldview, thereby restarting the cycle. To intentionally destroy even a single worldview by means other than conversion, therefore, is to become Joker and to eradicate all opposing worldviews.

            Just as Joker's henchman are all incapable of truly holding his worldview, so are Batman's sidekicks incapable of adhering to Batman's worldview. When faced with 'one bad day' in Death of the Family, Batman's allies consistently express the desire to kill Joker and destroy his worldview. Even Commissioner Gordon, in Batman: Cacophony, wants Batman to passively let Joker die. Batman refuses, arguing he must do everything he can to preserve Joker's life (and therefore protect even the most offensive opposing worldview).


Comic Book Rorschach Art by peterocc

            In the end, Batman and Joker will be the last two people standing at the end of the world - Joker because he will have killed everyone else, and Batman because he holds the worldview most resilient against Joker's. Batman and Joker are two ends of a continuum (zero-tolerance of opposing worldviews vs. complete tolerance), and Batman will always be the last battle to be fought; the last worldview to be conquered.

            Joker admits as much when he says:
 
Joker [after showing Batman's allies' faces removed from their skulls]: "They come off so easily, too. There's nothing beneath these pretty things, after all. They're not like you and me, you see, not under the skin. That's what I've been trying to tell you! Why I did this to my own sweet mug. To show you...show you that beneath these faces, well, it's just soft, tender stuff. Stuff you could just poke your finger through. Beneath my grin, though, is just more grin! Ha ha! And beneath that face of yours is something snouted and fanged and lovely and that's what this is about. Reminding you of the bond we share, you and I!"
 
Here Joker is saying humanity is "soft" in their convictions, willing to express worldviews they don't truly hold in order to try obtaining desired outcomes. Joker, however, is "just more grin", demonstrating he holds his worldview to the very core. Similarly, Batman is "snouted and fanged" beneath his mask, illustrating he, too, is genuine in his convictions and worldview.
 
5. Joker's Paradox
            While Joker eliminates opposing viewpoints as a result of instinct rather than desire, he is honest with others that he does desire Batman to convert to his worldview (or else die):
 

JOKER by CINA

Joker [to Batman]: "It's all a joke! Everything anybody ever valued or struggled for...It's all a monstrous, demented gag! So why can't you see the funny side? Why aren't you laughing?"
(The Killing Joke by Alan Moore)
 
Joker [to Batman]: "But I do want to kill you. I imagine that's hard to hear, after you just opened yourself up to me like you did. I imagine, in your head, you saw this visit as a chance to work on the nature of our relationship while I'm temporarily not a frothing-at-the-mouth, raving lunatic. You probably saw this visit as a chance for a new beginning. But here's the cold, hard truth, Bats...I don't hate you 'cause I'm crazy...I'm crazy 'cause I hate you."
(Batman: Cacophony by Kevin Smith)

Because Joker's worldview dictates that people who desire something be eternally thwarted, however, Joker's desiring Batman's eradication ironically ensures Batman will continue existing.       According to Joker's worldview, there are only two ways Batman will cease existing. The first is for Joker to stop having a preferred outcome and let chaos do as it will with Batman. Under this scenario Batman may or may not continue existing, but Joker won't care either way because he will view all possible outcomes as equally desirable (or rather, equally meaningless). The second option, however, and the only one which guarantees Batman's eradication, is for Joker to desire Batman to continue existing forever, since the universe will then thwart this desire, thereby eliminating Batman.

            If Joker is to eradicate Batman, then, he must paradoxically love Batman. Because Joker has selected the second option (that of loving Batman to conversion/death rather than viewing all outcomes as equally desirable and allowing for the possibility that Batman will continue existing), he has demonstrated he ultimately still desires Batman to cease existing. This results in a weird situation where Joker realizes he is stuck in a paradox and tries abusing the paradox for his own desired outcome, but in doing so desires to desire to love Batman, thereby guaranteeing he will never fully love Batman either (and therefore never love Batman out of existence). Joker is aware of the paradox that is his life, but walks into another paradox trying to escape the first paradox. This is the true reason Joker is insane: he solves a paradox by creating another paradox.


The Joker by Albz77

            Joker acknowledges the complex nature of the first paradox in Death of the Family:
 
Batgirl: "What do you want?"
Joker: "See, that's the thing. It's complicated. The batman, yes? He's the king, he's the apex, the top head cheese, as it were. I've even written a book about this. And it's people like you who weigh him down. Clutching at his cape, drowning him with your empathy and your compassion."
 
What Joker wants is "complicated" because he is guaranteed to never get what he wants. Later, Joker has a conversation with Catwoman that demonstrates he has made some progress toward desiring Batman to continue existing:
 
Catwoman: "You're the one in love with him [Batman]"
Joker: "Of course. Isn't that obvious?"
(The Joker: Death of the Family by Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo)
 

Batman x Joker - Dance by maXKennedy

Although Joker can't be fully in love with Batman at this point, or else Batman would have ceased to exist, Catwoman recognizes Joker has some amount of love for Batman. This demonstrates that Joker's feelings toward Batman can fluctuate (although he can never completely abandon 100% of his desire for Batman to cease existing). Similarly, in The Dark Knight Returns, Joker's first words after Batman's return has awakened him from his catatonic state are: "BB...BBBAT...Batman. Darling."

            As Joker tells Batman in Batman: Cacophony, "I don't hate you because I'm crazy, I'm crazy 'cause I hate you". This suggests Joker is aware he cannot fully relinquish his desire for Batman to cease existing, or else he could escape his paradox. Instead, Joker recognizes he is trapped within the confines of the paradox, which is true insanity.

            Like everything else, Joker reacts to this realization in true Joker fashion - by turning it into a joke:
 
Joker: "Quick question. When the clock strikes twelve [New Year's Eve] - do I get a little kiss?
Joker [after Batman punches him in the face]: " *rk* I'll take that as a 'no.'"
(Batman: The Long Halloween by Jeph Loeb)
 
6. Batman's Paradox
            Although Batman's paradox at first appears to be that he is forced to protect Joker's worldview, which ironically destroys all other worldviews, Joker is quick to express skepticism.
 

Joker Was Here by George Patsouras

Joker: "Let's just cut right to the heart of it, shall we? The black, shrunken heart. Beat-beat. Beat-beat. Why have you never killed me?"
Batman: "Because you'd...win."
Joker: "Hahaha! I love that one! Woo...right, because I'd win. No, see, this...this is how I win, batssss. I win by living, by keep on keeping on. What you just said - that you don't do it because I'd win - that's what you tell yourself, what you tell them, because you don't want to admit the truth. That and the old slippery-slope excuse, am I right? You kill me, and suddenly, who knows?! What's stopping you from killing all of us baddies from going on a downright spree?! But I call guano there, old friend. I mean, you really think you couldn't kill just me, Joker, and stop?"
(The Joker: Death of the Family by Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo)
 
Joker then goes on to provide an alternate explanation, detailing the paradox he believes plagues Batman:
 
Joker: "Allow me to play one more card, will you? The joker, the card of truth. Let me call your bluff once and for all and show my hand. Let me tell them the real reason you don't end it. The one you don't want to admit in front of them. The one you'll never admit to anyone but me...So, you want to know, kiddies? You want to know why the doors and windows get left unlocked at night? Why I get to creep in, over and over? To get you...and you...and you (again)...and you ...and you? Because the ugly truth of it, kiddies, is that deep down, beneath it all...Batman loves me more than he loves you. I mean, who do you think wrote this for me? It was you, bats. You wrote this little love letter, this backwards map, this hit list...and you write it again and again, every time you keep one of us alive, but let one of them fall. And they will fall, maybe one by one, maybe together...but look to the future, really look, and you know it's coming, that day when they're all dead and buried, in their cold bat-graves (hee-hee). But look! There's me and my friends, and ...Why, we're still alive and kicking! And there you are, batsss....chasing us, forever chasing! And why? Because it's what you want to happen. It's what you neeeeed. Because you see, with us you're more! With us, you transsscend! With us, you're always. But them, they make you everything you want to forget that you are, everything you're afraid of. And you were afraid, when you took them in. I know. It's okay, old friend. It was a moment of weaknesssss...the dirt was pulling, but you don't have to be afraid anymore, don't you see? Because Joker's here now! Your favorite! Your dearest one! He carried out your orders and he's here to rescue you, finally, from this nightmare. So let's do it, shall we?! It's the kind thing, after all. You know it is. Like this, while they're together. Now, just take my hand and we'll put the kiddies to bed once and for all. And together, you and I will go raise some hell!"
(The Joker: Death of the Family by Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo)


Batman by MelikeAcar

According to Joker's argument, Batman is fully aware of Joker's paradox and abuses this paradox by allowing Joker to live. As long as Joker continues existing, Batman is guaranteed to continue existing too, since Joker's paradox ensures Batman cannot die or convert. This results in a paradox that traps Batman: if Batman wants to protect Gotham from the greatest amount of evil, then he needs to stay alive. The only way he can guarantee his continued existence, however, is to permit the existence of Joker. Batman, therefore, is forced to tolerate Joker's evil in order to prevent a far greater amount of evil.

            At the end of Death of the Family, Batman's closest allies indicate they believe Joker's interpretation of Batman's paradox is accurate. Even Alfred, Batman's closest friend, ignores the question and advises him to drop the matter:
 
Bruce Wayne [to Joker in Arkham, in the past]: "Joker. I found this. I think it belongs to you [a Joker card]"
Bruce Wayne [narrating]: "He looked right at the card, Alfred, and right at me. But...But he didn't see me. He didn't see me at all. It was then that I knew - knew that he didn't care who I was beneath the mask, and never would. Knew that he was incapable of even broaching the subject of Bruce Wayne. It would ruin his fun. So you see, I knew there was never any chance that he'd gotten into the cave. I knew it because I know him. Know him better than I want to admit. But there's...there's no way to tell him that, Alfred, is there? No way to explain that I did let him in, but only to try to end it, to try...No, I'm just saying, Alfred. They know that he's wrong, don't they? About why I never did it before now. About all of it. Because he is wrong. I'll never let that happen, what he said. I'll never let it end up like that...Everyone gone except me and..."
Alfred: "Sir, please, he's gone now. It's over."


The Last Laugh by apetrie74

Again, in The Long Halloween, Alfred feels the need to tell Batman:
 
Alfred: "I might only point out that in one's quest for justice I have seen someone even as sane as yourself behave in the most surprising ways."
 
In this exchange, Alfred is saying rational people confronted by irrationality often act in ways inconsistent with their worldview without realizing it. In Batman's case, he is condemned to protect the worldview that threatens to erase all other worldviews. In his dedication to preserving worldviews (fighting crime), Batman has ironically lost sight of the real reason he allows Joker to live: Joker's continued existence guarantees Batman will survive to continue preserving and protecting opposing worldviews.

            And although Batman denies existing within a paradox, as Joker suggests, he is more honest in moments of weakness:
 
 Commissioner Gordon: "Listen, I can understand it if even you're afraid. I mean, Arkham has a reputation..."
Batman: "Afraid? Batman's not afraid of anything. It's me. I'm afraid. I'm afraid that the Joker may be right about me. Sometimes I...question the rationality of my actions. And I'm afraid that when I walk through those asylum gates...when I walk into Arkham and the doors close behind me...it'll be just like coming home."
(Batman: Arkham Asylum by Grant Morrison)
 

The Shadow and The Mask - by Studio8Worx

Batman is afraid of entering Arkham because it houses the insane, and those who are insane are trapped within paradoxes. To enter Arkham and find it welcomed him home would be to acknowledge he, like, Joker, exists within a paradox. As Sal Maroni states in The Long Halloween, Batman and Joker are both insane:
 
Maroni [to Batman]: "He's a lunatic, like you [Batman]! This whole town is full of lunatics ever since you came here. Lunatics..."
 
7. Conclusion
            In the end, Batman and Joker are both condemned to their own insanity - not because they reject all forms of rationality, but because they are confined to their respective paradoxes. Joker must fully desire Batman's worldview to continue existing in order to have the universe erase Batman's worldview, but desiring to desire Batman's continued existence guarantees he can never fully desire Batman to live, thereby ensuring Batman lives as long as Joker does. Batman, in turn, needs Joker to continue existing because Joker's paradox guarantees Batman invincibility, thereby allowing Batman to prevent more crime and preserve more opposing worldviews than he could with Joker dead (and the loss of invincibility).

 

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CLAYFACE: J.A. Bayona - Not Jeff Wadlow - In The Mix To Direct; New Details On THE SUBSTANCE-Inspired Plot

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TheHero
TheHero - 7/12/2015, 5:32 PM
Man, thus was a great article. You definetely nailed the point of why Joker is insane
TheHero
TheHero - 7/12/2015, 5:32 PM
*this
ThedamnBatman
ThedamnBatman - 7/13/2015, 5:10 AM
Incredible article, nailed it to the tee
ThedamnBatman
ThedamnBatman - 7/13/2015, 5:11 AM
ThedamnBatman
ThedamnBatman - 7/13/2015, 5:12 AM
ThedamnBatman
ThedamnBatman - 7/13/2015, 7:10 AM
@Gusto @DCMarvelFreshman @KingPatel @Minty @Tronvin @Abary @ALegendaryPanda @ArkhamCrusader @Batarmor @Nickk @McGee @CombatWombat

Lets get some people here, this should be read

TronVin
TronVin - 7/13/2015, 7:15 AM
Great read man.
Minty
Minty - 7/13/2015, 7:27 AM
Looks like a lot of time & effort's been put into this. I don't have the time to give it a proper read until this evening, but if it has @aXe 's seal of approval then you can have a thumb from me too.

One thing @camelcorpse78 , I'd add some pictures to illustrate each point. That way if (and ideally when) this gets thumbed to main, it'll have the best chances of staying there.
camelcorpse78
camelcorpse78 - 7/13/2015, 12:51 PM
@Minty, thanks for the advice. I'll definitely beef up the visuals.
CombatWombat
CombatWombat - 7/13/2015, 1:57 PM
Interesting article. You did a good job explaining what makes Joker such an interesting character.
Honestly, who'd have thought that (arguably) the most popular villain in popular culture would be a [frick]ing clown?
Nevereversummer
Nevereversummer - 7/14/2015, 11:53 AM
Two people suffering from malignant narcissism, empowering the others illness on a uniquely valuable level.
MisterSuperior
MisterSuperior - 7/14/2015, 8:57 PM
You pretty much explained why Joker is the most fascinating and perplexing villain, why Batman is one of the best heroes in comic books and why their dynamic is so amazing as they're the figurative and literal ying and yang between hero and villain all in one editorial.



I've said this before many times that while The Dark Knight is my least favorite of Nolan's trilogy, the psychology he brings to the table between Joker and Batman is as important as reading their history in the comics as the film is a representation of what the two mean to one another. The line of Joker saying they'll do this forever is a meta line, but it's the only line you need to know about these two. The Batman/Joker "relationship" will last forever, moreso than any other hero and villain combination there has been or ever will be.
MisterSuperior
MisterSuperior - 7/14/2015, 9:02 PM
Oh what the heck, @camelcorpse78 deserves another applause

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