Creating a Viable DC Comics Movie Universe that Includes Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy

Creating a Viable DC Comics Movie Universe that Includes Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy

They say that the Dark Knight Trilogy cannot exist in the new DC Comics Movie Universe. I say not only is it possible, it's necessary and make a tremendous amount of sense.

Editorial Opinion
By pahurricane - May 07, 2013 02:05 PM EST
Filed Under: Batman

With Iron Man 3 just hitting theaters and Man of Steel just around the corner, people have been discussing whether or not Warner Bros. is going to create a cohesive DC Comics Universe. With a Justice League movie looming on the horizon, it is not only possible, it is going to happen in some form. The fun in the speculation to this point is to how this will happen. Is WB going to follow the Marvel Studios model by introducing the characters separately and then tie them all together in a Justice League event movie? Can and will the WB be able to fight off the comparisons and "copycat" cat calls that are sure to come? Will the WB be bold and strike out a new comics universe by launching it in a Justice League movie? Both scenarios have their pros and their cons. I prefer the former rather than the latter because there is already a foundation in place for the creation of the universe.

Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy of films is widely acknowledged in critical circles as some of the best superhero cinema to have been created. When Nolan envisioned the films, he did not set out to create a cohesive superhero universe. That is perfectly ok, because in the DCU films that follow, creating Batman first can be perfectly acceptable and I argue in fact, it is preferable in order to set up the wonder of the films that are going to follow.



The Dark Knight Trilogy introduces "the world" to the idea of extraordinary people doing extraordinary things. The Gotham City introduced in Batman Begins is a corrupt city. A city where the underworld rules and criminals have no one to fear. If a "Superman" figure existed, why leave Gotham to fail like this? There are no superpowered people at this point in time and that is why introducing a world of heroes through Batman works.

Having the first cinematic hero in the universe being an "ordinary man" making a difference through extraordinary means is a logical place to begin. A character of financial means (in the Marvel Universe it's Tony Stark, in the DC Universe it's Bruce Wayne) utilizes his wealth and resources to right what the character perceives as personal wrongs and therefore find his personal redemption. Stark fights to reverse his legacy as "The Merchant of Death" by destroying the weapons his company has created that are now being used to kill American troops. Bruce Wayne fights to avenge the murder of his parents. Both movies introduce an ordinary man with extraordinary financial means.



It's been said that The Dark Knight trilogy can't exist in a DC Comics Universe because there is no way that other heroes in the world would've allowed the events of The Dark Knight Rises to have occurred to Gotham City. I say that the events of the Dark Knight Rises can exist in a DC Comics Universe if The Dark Knight Rises predates Earth's discovery of Superman. What if no other heroes came to help Gotham during Bane's siege of the city because there were not other heroes in the world to help Batman?

In The Dark Knight, the Joker tells Batman flat out that he's changed things. He's inspired the "Batman" imposters seen in The Dark Knight. Why would this phenomenon be restricted to Gotham City? Surely, news of a costumed vigilante in one city would inspire others in other cities to do similar things. Most would fail just as the Batman imposters did, but what if he inspires people that do succeed? What if combining his inspiration with an inspirational human event... like first contact with an alien species... created even more inspiration for people to do well?



Man of Steel hasn't been released yet, but what we have been able to ascertain from the trailers and TV commercials is that it is a story about "first contact". The people of Earth though Superman and his battles with General Zod that humans are not alone in the universe. Batman introduces the concept of a hero to the world, Superman introduces the concept that the universe is much larger than what humans ever imagined. In the Marvel world, Iron Man came first to ground the idea of the fantastic in some kind of reality. Thor then expanded that universe into the realms of magic and the other worldly.

That is where a DC Comics Universe can succeed. Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy grounded this idea of superheroes in a real world setting. Not only was this a groundbreaking way to present a superhero, it was received with much critical and financial success. Man of Steel can take that real world setting created by the Dark Knight films and start to move it towards the fantastic through the use of Superman as mankind's "first contact".

Now, with Man of Steel this is all speculation. What if Superman, and through him General Zod as well, create a situation where the Earth realizes that there are things out there beyond their control. This kind of catalyst can and should be what brings Bruce Wayne out of hiding to reclaim the mantle of Batman. He returns from hiding to monitor this extra-terrestrial threat. Because of the carnage created by the battle between Superman and Zod, Batman feels a need to not only protect Gotham City, but humanity as well. Batman's monitoring of the world will be the thing that ties together not only the Man of Steel and Dark Knight franchises, but also future DC films culminating in a Justice League film where Batman enlists Superman's assistance in pulling these heroes together to battle an out of this world threat that neither can handle alone.

We know that there are going to be ties and hints to a larger universe contained in Man of Steel. The natural first tie should be to the Dark Knight trilogy. How? We can only wait and see.
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WYLEEJAY
WYLEEJAY - 5/7/2013, 2:45 PM
This should be in editorials. Not news.
Tony93
Tony93 - 5/7/2013, 2:49 PM
Blake dies, there.
Gyasiman
Gyasiman - 5/7/2013, 2:50 PM
Good write up. Agree with what you said, only thing though is I see where people are coming from when they say that the Nolan Batman just isnt powerful enough to face a being like Darkseid. If they are to include Bale in Jl, they are going to have to make him twice as strong, smart, and martial artsy as he is in the DK trilogy.
comicle199
comicle199 - 5/7/2013, 2:57 PM
I don't think anyone can truly argue that the dark knight trilogy wasn't epic even if your not a Nolan fan the films themselves were Picasso's of the film world.

So yes i think they do need to be linked but not in a big way.
it would be a shame to lose them so why not include them some how as part of the Multiverse we all know that Dc is famous for the Multiverse and doing a shared universe is inevitably going to go down the infinite/identity/final crisis route.
why not just reference them in one scene during flashes through different universes it could be called earth-N it would be a great way to keep them as valid dc films in what is sure to become a great new film universe also by doing this it opens the way for crossovers we could see john Blake alongside a new Bruce wayne.

i would love to know peoples thoughts on this
Sora
Sora - 5/7/2013, 2:59 PM
I disagree completely
I don't even count The Dark knight trilogy as a true comicbook movie but rather an interpretation of Batman himself. Movies don't have to be grounded to be good. I respect the trilogy as a whole but Batman is no ordinary person. It's a comicbook movie! Rather have Batman doing incredible feats almost to the level of Captain america. This trilogy should be left alone. It had a good ending so it should be left that way.
Odin
Odin - 5/7/2013, 3:41 PM
@Sora You said it, man.
pahurricane
pahurricane - 5/7/2013, 3:52 PM
First posting. Meant to put it in editorials
pahurricane
pahurricane - 5/7/2013, 3:58 PM
@Sora - Captain America can do the Captain America feats because of the Super Soldier Serum. He's a "super" human, not an ordinary human. I was striking out to compare Bruce Wayne to Tony Stark. Ordinary humans who because of their personal fortunes have the ability to strike out in an extraordinary way... mentally... physically... and technologically.

@Gyasiman - I personally don't think you need to see Batman exchanging punches with Darkseid if they choose to utilize Darkseid in early Justice League films. The thing with the scenario I outlined highlights Bruce Wayne as someone who realizes that there are things bigger than him and is also smart enough to find ways to adapt the situation to suit him. Why punch out Darkseid when you can have a Martian, Amazonian, or Kyptonian do it for you?
DarkGrifter
DarkGrifter - 5/7/2013, 4:04 PM
You can think of as many excuses as possible as to how Nolan's Bruce Wayne can be integrated into the same universe as Man of Steel, but the fact is Nolan's Batman struggled to fend off the Jokers dogs. How is he supposed to fight against aliens, demons and gods? As well as competing with the likes of an amazonian warrior, a Kryptonian and a green lantern? Don't tell me he's just going to take a Nick Fury back seat role, because what self-respecting Batman fan, or any member of general audience for that matter, would want to see that?
ForeverPowerful
ForeverPowerful - 5/7/2013, 4:34 PM
I understand where people come from when they say they want a reboot. If its for the right reasons. If they want it to stand on its own out of fear of messing up the conclusion to the series. Or if the DCU fails, it might dampen the success of the trilogy. I wont understand when they say they want a different version of Batman when they use the same logic like "Hes not strong enough" or "no heroes exist".

You guys always say you want a comic accurate Batman. Well, I didnt really like some things in the comics about Batman. They go through putting emphasis on the idea that he's just a man, then they go and have him preforming superhuman feats that completely ruins the image of him being a man. All he has is his training, his intuition, and whatever he can create with his money. Nolans Batman has all of that.

I love what Nolan did with Batman. He kept everything that made him Batman, but he made sure to make him a man. A man cant go up against the likes of Darkseid, honestly he cant. It may work in the comics where you can go all crazy and shit, but when your making a movie that is trying to be at least a little grounded in reality, you cant have Batman being able to take down someone who Superman has trouble with. Supermans a GOD basically, Batman is a MAN. If you want him to take down gods, make him one somehow. But as long as he's a man, it makes sense for him not being able to fight someone Superman struggles with.

@DarkGrifter

Nolans Bruce Wayne just spent days chasing down a lunatic after dealing with the death of his childhood love. He probably hasnt slept alot, if at all, and has taken down gangs, and has driven back and forth all over the city. And right before the fight with the dogs, he took down an entire highly trained SWAT team before they even knew what hit them. I think you can cut him some slack for not being able to take down 3 big ass dogs including the Joker right away after all of that.
ForeverPowerful
ForeverPowerful - 5/7/2013, 4:36 PM
And if you guys really despise John Blake that much, then kill him off. Let him get killed being Batman. That'll show Bruce just no one can be Batman, and it'll make his mission even harder being striken with guilt.
CorndogBurglar
CorndogBurglar - 5/7/2013, 5:01 PM
No. They way the dark knight movies ended left no room for Bruce to return.

His body is too badly broken. His legs are shot and he requires a robo leg to do anything. I don't want an old, nearly broken Bruce wayne as Batman. I want the real Batman. The Batman that Nolan forgot to put in the third movie.
pahurricane
pahurricane - 5/7/2013, 5:44 PM
I would posit that evidence of alien life could be the one thing that could bring Bruce Wayne back to the Batcave.

And for the record I referenced Bruce Wayne not John Blake.

Nolan emphasized the man in Batman. I think it would be awesome to see Batman have to use his brain to find a way to hang with the e tra terrestrial and supernatural. Wasn't a gripe the Nolan bashers had was that you didn't see Batman use his mental skills enough? Placing this Batman in the Man of Steel universe would force Batman to do that
THIS
THIS - 5/7/2013, 7:56 PM
This. This. This. This. This. This. This.
I agree completely with everything on this article. Please, please, please make it happen! If nothing else, just don't acknowledge the events of DKT but don't deny them. Please, please, please make this happen.
xcrementus
xcrementus - 5/8/2013, 2:45 AM
Not a DC guy at all, but should they bring Bale Batman back, wouldn't it be great if that film's villain tortures and kills John Blake, and airs it to the city?

Once Wayne hears about it, he's pretty much guaranteed to suit up again wanting payback? It can also be a good way to emphasize the line between vengeance and justice, with Batman tempted to kill whoever's responsible.
FirstAvenger
FirstAvenger - 5/8/2013, 5:58 AM
^ This
GoILL
GoILL - 5/8/2013, 8:47 AM
@teabag

How can you make an antidote when you've been knocked out for two days?
DarkGrifter
DarkGrifter - 5/8/2013, 9:45 AM
@ForeverPowerful
Okay, but that doesn't change the fact he could barely take down a Bane that wasn't even half the size of his comic book counterpart. If you're going to tell me that was because he had been retired and out of action, then he's going to have an even harder time now because he's going to be even older, having been out of action even longer.

He wouldn't even be able to serve any purpose as a detective, because Nolan's Bruce Wayne had nowhere near the levels of genius intellect displayed by Bruce Wayne in the comics.

You say you want BatMAN, but the Batman in the Justice League books is always completing superhuman feats, that's why he can stand side-by-side with the likes of Superman and Wonder Woman and not get laughed at. There is just no way Nolan's Batman would be of any use to the other members of the Justice League.
MoonDoggyX
MoonDoggyX - 5/8/2013, 10:37 AM
Bruce Lee... Arnold scharzeneggar... Chuck Norris... Jackie chan... Jet lee... Michael jai white... Sylvester stallone... Jason stathom... THE ROCK! Almost every martial arts movie ever! All of these people have done super human feats in their movies when they were playing normal human beings. Why can't Batman??? That's what acton heroes do. Normal humans doing extraordinary things. That's what amazes people with those movies. Doesn't make the hero less human, just more spetacular.

Justice League needs the Batman of legend. The one from the animated series! Smarter than Lex Luthor or tony stark... A better detective than sherlock holmes... A better fighter than bruce lee... The penacle of what a human can achieve through knowledge, training and sheer will...
GoILL
GoILL - 5/8/2013, 10:53 AM
@teabag

I got where you were going with that. I guess my response wasn't really about your comment but moreso the criticism about him not making the antidote himself that other have made.
GoILL
GoILL - 5/8/2013, 12:27 PM
@teabag


LOL, that would be a giant leap to jump to so it's good that they are rebooting.
naterator
naterator - 5/8/2013, 1:01 PM
DK Trilogy can exist perfectly well in with MOS. IF THEY WANT IT TO. I have a feeling that once JLA comes out people will be wishing they had stuck Bale in there instead of this new guy. Batman was never a POWERFUL hero. he was logistics and strategy and stealth.....Having said that, he can fit in perfectly well with the new DCCU that they are putting together. In my opinion it will not be as great as it could be without the already established BATMAN.
naterator
naterator - 5/8/2013, 1:45 PM
I just had a thought come to me and it was this...."How Ironic would it be if Snyder and Nolan were able to keep Bale on board as the Easter Egg that would have fans raving? I would laugh my ass off at all the haters....and then I would sleep very well that night.
OdinsBeard
OdinsBeard - 5/8/2013, 1:57 PM
i wholeheartedly agree with you on TDK trilogy fitting into a larger DC universe. Look at what marvel did - they made the movie each of their characters needed and deserved (heh heh)and teamed them up later on. Batman is the most realistic hero so it stands to reason that his movie would be realistic. my question is what would be done differently if they had planned form the beginning to have TDK in the JL series..

I think one answer to that question is the ending of TDKR. i don't think i'm in the minority when i say that i do not want john blake to be batman in a new movie, as cool a JGL is. This could be solved by kicking off the next batman story with the death of john blake as batman at the hands of whatever villain you feel fits the story best. queue a return of bruce wayne. but this would totally undermine the theme nolan wanted for his batman films, not a theme a i necessarily agree with, but a theme that led to a great cinematic experience. (much like the mandarin twist in IM3. didn't like it. but to change it would result in scrapping almost the movie. and the movie was great so why would i do that..)

i loved the nolan movies. nolan is hands down my favorite film maker. the prestige is my favorite film. but i can't wait for the batman reboot. i would make the first batman film the story of dick grayson and the court of the owls. it's time to delve more into the bat-family in the next film series. i think i came up with a way for the bruce/dick relationship to be less... pedo-y. i only have a broad knowledge of this since i'm more of a marvel guy but hear me out... The court has been running things in gotham for however long and dick grayson is supposed to be their next "talon." Two-Face, as an extension of the court of the owls, attacks the circus (or a more modern equivalent) which makes dick an orphan. Batman starts investigating the crime and uncovers the court and their intentions with dick so instead of allowing him to become a criminal assassin bats takes him in as his ward and trains him to defend himself. this is a source of tension between them when dick finds out because to him what is the difference between what bruce is doing and what the court is doing. the movie would take place over a 5 year time span and it would end with dick defeating talon and becoming Nightwing. Insert various villains here and there for support. and of course the sequel would be the best batman movie ever - ARKHAM ASYLUM! the die-hard of batman movies.
THIS
THIS - 5/8/2013, 2:33 PM
I want the Dark Knight Trilogy in the DCCU. But even more than that I want an Arkham Asylum movie.
MrCBM56
MrCBM56 - 5/8/2013, 5:24 PM
@Pitt

Lmao, 20 years from now the MCU will still be going on, and meanwhile Dc still trying to get a Justice League on screen.
SageMode
SageMode - 5/8/2013, 7:34 PM
Ummmm........No
ThunderKat
ThunderKat - 5/8/2013, 10:26 PM
I like your thoughts on this subject.

TDKR ruined it for me. I just don't care. It served to end the series and nothing more. I don't think Levitt as Nightwing is a good idea.
DutchMovieFan
DutchMovieFan - 5/9/2013, 1:32 PM
No. No nononononononono. Please, if Arrow, a television series, can make Green Arrow feel more like Batman than a multi million dollar movie, then please change your Batman. Oliver is fantastic in martial arts, good with computers, and seems to be pretty darn intelligent and a good stratagist. Oh, and he retains a lot of human element. True, he has help and seems to get his ass kicked by an older man, twice, but he feels a lot more like Batman to me. And this is coming from a Hawkeye fan. Please, make Batman awesome again.
GreenLantern519
GreenLantern519 - 5/9/2013, 1:51 PM
@Teabag I think him saying "Am I supposed to understand that" was meant to be a joke. Since at the time Lucius Fox was still doing the coy "I don't know what you do *wink wink*" thing with Bruce, and Bruce was just joking around acting like he's incompetent in that area, notice that the next line was "Planning on gassing yourself again?" to which Bruce replies JOKINGLY "Oh it's dark everyone's passing around the weaponized hallucinogens" (paraphrased of course). My point is I think Bruce was just playing off of the relationship he Lucius had in the movie with humor and actually did understand what he was talking about.
JuggyPunch
JuggyPunch - 5/9/2013, 3:56 PM
terrible idea, sorry just is.
OrgasmicPotatoe
OrgasmicPotatoe - 5/9/2013, 9:01 PM
I think the fairest deal they could find with that is to not acknowledge the events of TDKT, but not deny them either. Yes, I know, there will be another Bruce Wayne who is Batman. Shut up, watch the movie.

That way those against it will have their share, and those who want it don't lose their hopes. Boom.
aNarcHy2day
aNarcHy2day - 5/10/2013, 4:30 AM
Very good post. This is my view on MoS and TDK Trilogy being in the same Universe as well. I want Bale back partly because I just can't wrap my head around a Batman reboot hardly 4 years after a blockbuster trilogy from a guy whose name appears prominently on MoS- which you do want to be canon to JL!
ClarkWayne
ClarkWayne - 5/12/2013, 10:37 AM
They don't really need batman in the JL series, what they really need is bruce wayne. His resources would make a great plot point for JL i.e: Watchtower, Kryptonite, and maybe a rivalry between Wayne Ent. and LexCorp. Bruce Wayne/Batman being a watchdog and sceptic of the super powered heroes have been my favorite story lines of JL. They have already hinted of tech playing a role in TDKR, so a hightech bat-suit and older wayne is not a stretch. Justice League Doom mixed with Braniac as a villain i think, would be the best approach for a realistic yet engaging and fantastical world for a JUSTICE LEAGUE FILM.
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