JOKER: FOLIE À DEUX: Fans Divided Over Apparent Rape Scene As Todd Phillips Talks More About Divisive Ending

JOKER: FOLIE À DEUX: Fans Divided Over Apparent Rape Scene As Todd Phillips Talks More About Divisive Ending

DC fans are divided over one specific scene in Joker: Folie à Deux and whether it features the rape of a lead character. We also have more from filmmaker Todd Phillips on the movie's shocking ending...

By JoshWilding - Oct 06, 2024 09:10 AM EST
Filed Under: Joker

During Joker: Folie à Deux's final act, Arthur Fleck decides to represent himself in court and, during a rousing speech, insults Arkham's guards. 

When he returns, they're not happy and proceed to beat him up, wash off his makeup, tear his suit to pieces and then - presumably - rape him in the shower. Nothing is explicitly shown and fans are currently divided on whether Arthur was simply beaten or sexually assaulted by those guards. 

Either way, we next see Arthur being dragged back to his cell where he lies broken in body and spirit, forced to listen to Brendon Gleeson's Jackie Sullivan murder his fellow inmate and fan, Ricky. 

It's seemingly because of this that Arthur decides to go to court the next day and admit there is no "Joker' and only he is responsible for his actions. While it isn't made overly clear, the message seems to be that Arthur has realised even his persona isn't enough to beat the system and he's better off just taking responsibility for who he is and what he's done. 

None of it really lands (hence the bad reviews) but there's chatter on social media about walkouts at this late point in the movie and a general disgust that Arthur is potentially raped by his captors. 

Talking to IGN, filmmaker Todd Phillips said, "[The] first film under the script always said 'An origin story.' Never said THE origin story. It was this idea that maybe this isn't THE Joker. Maybe this is the inspiration for the Joker. So, in essence at the end of this movie, the thing you're being left with is 'Wait, what is that thing happening behind him? Is that the guy?'"

Describing Arthur's eventual death at the hands of a fellow inmate as "beautiful," Phillips shared his take on why the madman eventually rejects Joker. 

"What he realizes is basically you can't fight City Hall. Meaning when you're Arthur you're going to always lose, and corruption will always win," he explained. "Whether it's the corruption of the prison system/guards, the corruption of the judicial system, the corruption of the media, and the way they represent Arthur in that sort of Tom Snyder-esque interview in the beginning with the very brilliant Steve Coogan."

"The only way to win is to burn it all down in Arthur's head, like just a little "[frick] it all." You know what I mean? Because you just can't win when you're a person like Arthur."

What are your thoughts on Joker: Folie à Deux's shocking final act? As always, let us know in the comments section below.

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TheJok3r
TheJok3r - 10/6/2024, 9:38 AM
I'll never understand why a studio would make a movie that deliberately tries to upset fans and the general audience. Do these "business" men and women not understand that doing so results in loss of $$$, lost of $$$ ?
IAmAHoot
IAmAHoot - 10/6/2024, 9:42 AM
@TheJok3r - Like the previous Joker movie...
Cleander
Cleander - 10/6/2024, 10:24 AM
@TheJok3r - They dont mind losing the money bc the movie they made resonated with the wrong audience so the sequel might as well go down the drain.
WruceBayne
WruceBayne - 10/6/2024, 10:49 AM
@TheJok3r - I think the studio put all their faith in the director and he did pretty much what he wanted and it didn’t go as planned financially.
ThePenguin
ThePenguin - 10/6/2024, 9:43 AM
Imo watching this movie, when he was in court as his own attorney, and when he goes back to arhkam he's perfect joker. Those two scenes joaquin was literly mark hamil. When he went back to arkham and said "Am I in trouble, he was joker"

What a waste.
HashTagSwagg
HashTagSwagg - 10/6/2024, 9:44 AM
Those prison guards did more for Gotham than Batman ever could
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ThePenguin
ThePenguin - 10/6/2024, 9:44 AM
And people are saying "Arthur was pathetic, he couldn't be real joker" I mean I dont think he could take over the city, but he was confident, dangerous, got the personality right. Could kill people on stage, and stab full grown men to death. His followers were gonna "Burn the city down" and were bombing city hall.

The movie really doesent get its point across.
TheVisionary25
TheVisionary25 - 10/6/2024, 9:59 AM
@ThePenguin - good point.

Maybe perhaps he could have done that with this Harley by his side.
ThePenguin
ThePenguin - 10/6/2024, 10:02 AM
@TheVisionary25 - Imo I wasnt a fan of harley. I dont think you've seen it, but scene at the end where two guys blow up city hall and kidnap joker, and they say "We're gonna burn the city down" that could have been more interesting movie.

Like not even if he did become joker. Like he tries to lead gang and sucks at it, or even tries to like.....sabotage them from inside that be cool
TehJoker
TehJoker - 10/6/2024, 9:47 AM
Yeah I got nothing. He raped my ass
HermanM
HermanM - 10/6/2024, 9:48 AM
WB raped the character when they allowed his name to be used as the title of these garbage films that have nothing to do with the actual Joker.

Glad this movie is bombing and getting the treatment that the first movie should have got to begin with.
FireandBlood
FireandBlood - 10/6/2024, 9:53 AM
Remember when Zack Snyder had these plans for Batman? 🤨
PartyKiller
PartyKiller - 10/6/2024, 9:57 AM
Ever since Pulp Fiction, there has been terrible writers who throw male rape scenes into entertainment in a desperate attempt to come across as super-artistic. In American History X butt-rape cured a guy of his racism. In JOKER: FOLIE À DEUX, butt-rape cured Arthur of his desire to be Joker.
NonPlayerC
NonPlayerC - 10/6/2024, 10:43 AM
@PartyKiller - or maybe male rape actually happens in the real world and has merit to be explored as some of the awful parts of the human experience right up there with murder and torture. Pulp fiction was a good movie, yes that rape scene was spectacle. American history x, it did not make him not racist, he had already left the aryan brotherhood and they raped him as retribution. I have not seen joker 2 because the first one was not a joker movie anyway
TheVisionary25
TheVisionary25 - 10/6/2024, 9:57 AM
Todd Phillips went to the Zack Snyder school of thinking…

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Kidding aside , it’s weird to be upset by something that may or may not have happened in the film itself…

I haven’t seen the movie yet but the way people had been talking about it made me think we see it happen perhaps.

Anyway , I think the big reason this isn’t being received generally well is because there is no catharsis…

The first Joker had him becoming that persona and even getting some degree of payback & revenge but this doesn’t do that and leads to a bleak , kinda nihilistic ending.
ThePenguin
ThePenguin - 10/6/2024, 10:00 AM
@TheVisionary25 - Imo I like the idea of a cult figure regretting his cult, but the movie execution isnt good. As you can see from other comments of mine, I get the sense movie doesent know if it wants him to be a serial killer or Arthur.

And honestly I dont think he suits arthur in original movie. Original arthur was constantly having dark thoughts, moody, and weird. This arthur is way too normal, and his insanity feels forced.
TheVisionary25
TheVisionary25 - 10/6/2024, 10:15 AM
@ThePenguin - interesting

I’m not getting lie , everyone’s comments make me want to check it out more
ThePenguin
ThePenguin - 10/6/2024, 10:17 AM
@TheVisionary25 - Its worth try. But I warn my issue is like pure fundamental stuff. The movie feels disjointed and boring, and lacks any spark. Don't go in expecting to hate or love it cause of choices alone cause it doesent execute them well enough

Some beautiful cinematography though
TheVisionary25
TheVisionary25 - 10/6/2024, 10:34 AM
@ThePenguin - oh , I’ll definitely try to go in with an open mind as I always do in these projects
ThePenguin
ThePenguin - 10/6/2024, 9:58 AM
What was the point of all the scenes where he is obviously messing with the guards and being murderous if he wasnt the joker. Like part where guard asks to sign book, and joker looks at him.
OgHerManM
OgHerManM - 10/6/2024, 9:59 AM
mmm that prison scene was my fave.
Feralwookiee
Feralwookiee - 10/6/2024, 10:53 AM
@OgHerManM - Ah, a Delieverance fan I see.

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Cleander
Cleander - 10/6/2024, 10:21 AM
Todd Phillips really wanted to cut all association to the Joker and he succeeded lol!
SuperCat
SuperCat - 10/6/2024, 10:28 AM
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DrReedRichards
DrReedRichards - 10/6/2024, 10:30 AM
But I thought sex and violence were "mature" and "adult" for those kino eliteists! What's the matter, is that no longer the case?

Is that not what you adult, grown-up, mature and enlightened audiences wanted in the first place? Is this not what you asked for; to avoid and escape all the other stupid kiddie stuff?

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99OPTIMISTPRIME
99OPTIMISTPRIME - 10/6/2024, 10:37 AM
A what scene?!🤯 Like, why? At least we'll never get another Joker-led movie, ever again.🤣
BabyLasagna
BabyLasagna - 10/6/2024, 10:43 AM
So the first movie then is about a random guy, love it
HermanM
HermanM - 10/6/2024, 10:50 AM
Are we sure Zack Snyder didn't direct this?

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Feralwookiee
Feralwookiee - 10/6/2024, 10:58 AM
@HermanM - ?si=ptOJxYWV_boVAnrg
bobevanz
bobevanz - 10/6/2024, 10:52 AM
Absolute garbage, at least Megalopolis was entertaining lol
OrionPax
OrionPax - 10/6/2024, 10:55 AM
The first movie was pretentious as hell, not surprising that this one is too. Ego is the enemy of art
Fogs
Fogs - 10/6/2024, 10:57 AM
"Never said THE origin story. It was this idea that maybe this isn't THE Joker."

What a bunch of BS.

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