THE DARK KNIGHT Writer Reveals That Warner Bros. Wanted To Give Heath Ledger's Joker An Origin Story

THE DARK KNIGHT Writer Reveals That Warner Bros. Wanted To Give Heath Ledger's Joker An Origin Story

The Dark Knight writer David S. Goyer has revealed that Warner Bros. pushed for the Joker to have an origin story, while also sharing some insight into why they shook up Two-Face's transformation...

By JoshWilding - Jul 30, 2020 02:07 AM EST
Filed Under: The Dark Knight

Tim Burton's Batman gave the Joker what proved to be a somewhat controversial origin story, but The Dark Knight never bothered to address the Clown Prince of Crime's past (making him every bit as mysterious as his comic book counterpart in some ways). However, it seems Warner Bros. wanted the 2008 movie to shed a little more light on the villain's background. 

In the video below for this past weekend's Comic-Con@Home, The Dark Knight writer David S. Goyer explained that he and Christopher Nolan wanted to do something different with the character.

"I do remember when we were talking about, 'Well what if the Joker doesn't really have an origin story?'" he said. "Even after the success of Batman Begins that was considered a very controversial thing and we got a lot of push-back. People were worried."

Another big change in that movie was Two-Face's origin story; in the comic books, he's left disfigured after being attacked in court, but The Dark Knight's Harvey Dent was horribly scarred thanks to the Joker (after he tried to force Batman to choose between saving Harvey or Rachel). 

"I don't remember exactly when that decision was made," Goyer explained. "There were a lot more eyes, both in terms of the world and the studio on that film than there were on Batman Begins. And it's harder to take risks and it's harder to subvert expectations in success because people want to protect against failure or they want you to do what you did the first time, but just a little bit different."

"One of the scariest things to tell most film executives or even TV executives after having had success in something is, 'Yeah, we're not going to do that again. We're going to do something different'."

 Fans certainly didn't seem to mind the changes made to Two-Face that much, but it is interesting to get some insight into why his origin story was shaken up a little. 

You can hear more from the filmmaker below:
 

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JOKER Star Joaquin Phoenix Claims Christopher Nolan Offered Him Heath Ledger's Role In THE DARK KNIGHT

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L0RDbuckethead
L0RDbuckethead - 7/30/2020, 2:18 AM
bkmeijer2
bkmeijer2 - 7/30/2020, 2:24 AM
@L0RDbuckethead - I think the Joker is a disillusionised veteran theory fits the Nolanverse much better though
L0RDbuckethead
L0RDbuckethead - 7/30/2020, 2:26 AM
@MalesMarcel - Watch the video. They can both be true.
bkmeijer2
bkmeijer2 - 7/30/2020, 2:29 AM
@L0RDbuckethead - yeah thats true
Nightwing1015
Nightwing1015 - 7/30/2020, 4:29 AM
@MalesMarcel - Thing is, if he was a veteran, wouldn't the government have some record of him? Fingerprints, DNA, something like that.

I remember Patton Oswald pointed something like this out.
Origame
Origame - 7/30/2020, 4:54 AM
@L0RDbuckethead - you know, after all of those theories he kept pushing with joker being the good guy (always conveniently forgetting he blew up a hospital and put innocent people in the crosshairs of swat) i was so nervous hed suggest joker was Bruce's brother or something.
Origame
Origame - 7/30/2020, 4:57 AM
@Nightwing1015 - yeah. I never prescribed to the veteran theory. Personally i think he's one of the league of shadows members ras brought to gotham who survived and went insane from the death of ras and dissolving of the league. This also explains all his origins for his scars as they're the stories from his fellow league members in why they joined, only twisted to match his new mental state.
Nightwing1015
Nightwing1015 - 7/30/2020, 5:18 AM
@Origame - Yeah but what about his accent. It's not really a "league of shadows" voice. It's clearly American.
Nightwing1015
Nightwing1015 - 7/30/2020, 5:18 AM
Bane had more of a non-descript league of shadows voice. Where you couldn't really tell where he was from.
Origame
Origame - 7/30/2020, 5:30 AM
@Nightwing1015 - well i mean the league has clearly been shown to recruit from all over the world. We see that, even though its centered in an asian country, we have an american, an englishman, at least one african, and so on. Its not really exclusively one group or country, which is clearly by design since they infiltrate government. What if, for example, they needed to infiltrate a russian city? You not only need someone white, but also someone who can both speak russian and have a convincing accent.

So in short, theres plenty of precident that he can either be american or at the bare minimum european but taught to use an american accent.
Origame
Origame - 7/30/2020, 5:31 AM
@Nightwing1015 - also banes a bad example as he was excommunicated.
Nightwing1015
Nightwing1015 - 7/30/2020, 5:42 AM
@Origame - Yeah I guess it's possible. But the Joker being an ex-member of the League just doesn't feel right to me.

I prefer the origins where the Joker is just an ordinary guy who had something terrible happen to him which drove him crazy.

Having said all this, I doubt even Nolan and Goyer wrote an origin for him. So there's probably no "right" answer.
Mrcool210
Mrcool210 - 7/30/2020, 5:42 AM
@L0RDbuckethead - with it being film theory? Not likely. I remember his who would win spiderman video and he just ends the video with someone who wasn't even in the conversation and then gives shitty reasons why.


Either way [frick] matpat and [frick] gametheory and film theory
TheWalkingCuban
TheWalkingCuban - 7/30/2020, 5:53 AM
@Nightwing1015 - Why don’t you just guess til you get it right? Then he HAS to answer, it’s in the code of the league of shadows. Hey Bane! You from Iran? “No” North Korea? “Not even close”.........are you from Orlando??? “of COURSE! haHA!” See?
RolandD
RolandD - 7/30/2020, 6:01 AM
@Nightwing1015 - One of their most important “recruits” had an American accent (except off-camera) -Bruce. That said, I don’t subscribe to that theory. I like him best without a known origin story.
Origame
Origame - 7/30/2020, 6:37 AM
@Nightwing1015 - yeah. In general this is all just what you prefer. Mostly i did this since every other villain in the trilogy has some ties to the league.
MUTO123
MUTO123 - 7/30/2020, 2:22 AM
“ And it's harder to take risks and it's harder to subvert expectations in success...”

“It’s harder to subvert expectations...”

“Subvert expectations...”

patgreyc
patgreyc - 7/30/2020, 9:28 AM
@MUTO123 - You're not wrong.
Dredd97
Dredd97 - 7/30/2020, 3:32 PM
@MUTO123 - *Rian Johnson has entered the group chat*
tmp3
tmp3 - 7/31/2020, 12:14 AM
@Dredd97 - I like his original films, but the best thing he's done is still his Breaking Bad episodes imo. "Ozymandias" is an all-timer, probably top 2 episodes of TV I've ever seem
Dredd97
Dredd97 - 7/31/2020, 6:40 PM
@tmp3 - OH man, I absolutely agree. He kinda has a pass from me for that for life haha and I loved Knives Out. I think had he been given Star Wars since The Force Awakens and was able to plan out a trilogy, he'd be more revered, and the trilogy would be better. Because he's a competent filmmaker and definitely better than JJ
bkmeijer2
bkmeijer2 - 7/30/2020, 2:23 AM
The movies were so different from the source material that small things like Two-Face's disfigurement didn't even stood out for me.

Most change actually worked well in favor of the movies in my opinion, but I'm glad they didn't gave Joker an origin. Maybe it could'e worked though, who knows.
MUTO123
MUTO123 - 7/30/2020, 2:28 AM
@MalesMarcel - I like the theory that he’s an ex-soldier who got injured in the war and became disillusioned and turned into an anarchist who wears the clown makeup as a form of war paint. But you’re right, it’s ultimately for the best that they don’t say where he came from.
bkmeijer2
bkmeijer2 - 7/30/2020, 2:30 AM
@MUTO123 - I commented that above too. Definitely agree
dracula
dracula - 7/30/2020, 2:28 AM
Wonder if the writers actually came up with an origin for him. Sometimes writers do stuff like that work out a world and how things are even if they never make it into the movie
ChimiFnChangas
ChimiFnChangas - 7/30/2020, 4:13 PM
@dracula - You mean to give the actor something to ground their performance in? I can see that happening here. Although Heath was that good of an actor that he could've created the entire persona himself.
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