Why Is Realism Frowned Upon?

Why Is Realism Frowned Upon?

It seems like words such as "we are trying to translate it into a real world" are considered words to hate on nowadays. My question is, why?

Editorial Opinion
By DannRamm113 - Dec 27, 2014 10:12 AM EST
Filed Under: The Dark Knight

Is realism a thing to be flustered about?  A lot of comic book fans seem to dread words such as "we are trying to translate this comic book property for a real modern world".  These words cause pages of flame wars.  People eventually bring up movies such as "Man of Steel" and The Dark Knight Trilogy as films where realism only dampered the movie.  Are these criticisms legit?  My answer is no, they are not a legitiment reason to hate on a movie and think less of it.


A recent example of comic book movies being described as more "real" is the upcoming "Fantastic Four" reboot.  A majority of people seem to think adding modern updates such as Reed working in a convienent store (rumor unconfirmed) to the gang wearing containment costumes as reasons the movie will suck.  Really?  Because the explanation given in the first movie was so much better?  That the suits were hit by the storm thus can be used the same as their powers?  That explanation is almost as bad as nipples on the batsuit.  The suits being originally used as a protective barrier in case getting hit by the storm made them sick is actually a decent explanation.  And speaking of nipples on the batsuit...

The Dark Knight Rises does not suck.  Everybody seems to say that the realistic Bane was a disadvantage to the movie (one of many "critisicisms").  But he was an interesting character, able to compete with and defeat Batman and anyone else that he fights.  That is what Bane is meant to be, a superior warrior, which he in fact is.  Realism was needed in this movie and the other Dark Knight films in order to give it a bit of an edge, which the campy Joel Schumacher films lost.  And these movies, and how they successfully blended the real world with elements of the comic book, is what inspired the oh so praised Marvel Cinematic Universe.

The first Iron Man is the best film in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.  There is a reason for this.  It did not stuff a lot of sequel set up, Avengers references, or unneeded cameos.  The characters were well fleshed, even the villain, who in actuality is the best that Marvel has done.  But other than those, the film was real.  It was in fact believable, it took notes from Batman Begins on how to translate a comic book character into the real world.  Even Captain America: The Winter Soldier kept this realism alive.

Now, I am not saying that films that are purely fictional and can't happen in the real world are bad.  The Guardians of the Galaxy seemed like a really fun film for people, as well as the original Superman movies.  But adding bits of realistic features does not damper a film, it makes it stronger, and more believeable, thus making it more relatable for audiences.

Now, back to the question at hand, why do comic book fans hate realism now?  One can only speculate.  I think it is because they are starting to look at the deviations as punches to the face.  I mean, now if Batman Begins was to come out in theaters and an article popped up "Batmobile to be an unused tank"  people would go nuts!  Well that, my fellow CBMers, is why none of us, me included in that, are screenwriters, casting agents, producers, directors, editors, critics or anything related to major studios such as Warner Brothers or Disney.  It is their job to write and translate, and our job to misinterpret news that we hear.  That is the truth of it all.  We don't know anything, and it's time to accept that.  Realism is not a bad word.  It is word that simply means "hey, we are taking your favorite hero, adding a new spin, and making it so that a majority of people can like and appreciate them instead of just people that like the comic books".

Well, i hope you enjoyed, feel free to give me the big red thumbs up if you agreed!
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tonytony
tonytony - 12/27/2014, 11:28 AM
The general audience dont thate realism. If they did the batman films wouldnt gross over billion. disney trolls tried to create that impression to endorse movies like gotg but in reality not case
DannRamm113
DannRamm113 - 12/27/2014, 11:38 AM
@tonytony I wasn't accusing the general audience of hating realism. I was accusing the people that you mentioned.
01928401
01928401 - 12/27/2014, 11:43 AM
I honestly have very rarely seen this argument, especially the one you mentioned about TDK trilogy. It's not the realism fans hate, it's the complete deviation from the material. Making Reed a slacking community college gas station attendant and Doom being a hateful internet troll are the problems. That they've been reduced to insecure teenagers (or so we're led to believe) makes people angry and confused. They'll either get over it or continue to complain while actually liking the film because they don't want to be proven wrong.
DrKinsolving
DrKinsolving - 12/27/2014, 11:48 AM
Iron Man was awesome but the MCU has released a lot of awesome movies, including Cap: TWS and GOTG this year alone

TDKRs didn't suck because of realism, there were a lot of flaws in the story, Batman defeated crime? Bruce Wayne retiring, the whole broken back healing thing, it just didn't make sense, I wasn't a fan of the ending either, I really thought they were going to follow "Knightfall" closer (which was a far better story).... Also, it had to follow The Dark Knight which is, imo, the best Batman movie to date, TDKRs was still entertaining

I'm not looking forward to the Fantastic 4 because it won't be the Fantastic 4, just as the X-Men movies are not really the X-Men, the essence of the characters isn't there at Fox.

The movie could still be entertaining though
tokens
tokens - 12/27/2014, 11:55 AM
I agree with you on TDKR and iron man(08).
realism is looked down on because comic books are in nature
"fantastical". theyre fables, myths, fairy tales.
so "realism" means toning it down. less powers, less colorful suits, less wild adventures. take that away what do you have? a crime movie.
good guy. bad guy. fight. that's it.
that's not comic books.
that's law and order.
we want to see colorful spandex, heat vision, flying, impossible acrobatics.
so, yeah. its not always a bad thing, its just not the original intention of the stories and characters.
but what do I know?
im a cat.
MarkyMarkRises
MarkyMarkRises - 12/27/2014, 12:03 PM
Because a lot of the time, it's uninspired and cliched.

Movies like TDKT, CAP:TWS, Watchmen, V, Man of Steel, are good "realistic" interpretations of classic cam characters.

Godzilla is the perfect example of a shitty "dark and realistic" movie.
MarkyMarkRises
MarkyMarkRises - 12/27/2014, 12:04 PM
*cbm characters
MarkyMarkRises
MarkyMarkRises - 12/27/2014, 12:04 PM
and iron man
tokens
tokens - 12/27/2014, 12:58 PM
Godzilla was good marky.
boo to you again
GoldenMan
GoldenMan - 12/27/2014, 1:25 PM
Funny this should come up on CBM, I just wrote a piece of A Level (or Senior Year to you yanks) coursework on the shift towards realism in superhero films! Mine focussed heavily on 'Man of Steel' though.

The issue with what you're discussing is that issues with 'realism' are often misconstrued with deviating from the source material. Fans don't hate on the fact that Bane was a visceral, tactical genius in 'The Dark Knight Rises', it's that he isn't from Santa Prisca and all up on Venom.
r3negade
r3negade - 12/27/2014, 1:43 PM
I have no problem with realism in most movies, but when I go to see a superhero movie, I go to see things that couldn't normally happen to people or this world a.k.a. unrealistic.

So is realism a problem? Nope. Is realism a problem in superhero movies? Most of the time, yep.
kong
kong - 12/27/2014, 2:14 PM
I remember people used ot hate on MOS before it came out about it being "realistic". It was just another case of reading the headline and not the article. The idea behind MOS and a lot of other "realistic" cbm's are putting unrealistic characters in to a realistic world. The goal is to show how our real world would react to something completely unreal. Unlike some of our earlier cbm's where the world might be just as fantastical as the heroes (excluding places like Asgard and...Space...because those actually ARE fantastical). The world of Sam Raimi's Spider-Man fits the heroes in villains in the movie. The world or MOS does fit it's Superman, but the world isn't pandered to him, he's pandered to the world. All Star Superman is an example of the world being pandered to the character.
TheEpicJuicebox
TheEpicJuicebox - 12/27/2014, 3:20 PM
The thing is is that comicbook movies shouldn't deviate from the sources because it is based on a comic book after all which defies the realism of everyday life therefore realism and comicbook movies really shouldn't be together, just my opinion I loved man of steel and the dark knight trilogy but with the dark knight trilogy the batman there wasn't the batman I was used to seeing growing up like in the animated series.
Lhornbk
Lhornbk - 12/27/2014, 4:14 PM
Why do people criticize realism? Because they're a bunch of whiny fanboys who think you should just make the movies look exactly like the comics, even if a majority if people would think that looked stupid. That's why you get complaints about "respecting source material" and "ruining my childhood" and so on. It's why you get complaints about the X-Men wearing black leather outfits (even if it does make more sense) and Batman wearing body armor instead of the TV costume (which looked too stupid for words.) Fortunately, the studios are smarter than fanboys.
YOR
YOR - 12/27/2014, 4:15 PM
Maybe the problem is the term "realism",where We should use complexity or even gravitas,and eschew terms like gritty or grounded.MOS being one of My favorite cbm's, often gets derided for being too gritty or grounded,but to Me is full of complexity and gravitas.There's nothing grounded about an alien with superpowers using them to protect His adoptive home-world,but gravitas arises in the decision of how and when to use said powers.Though Superman's fight with the other Kryptonians was pretty gritty ,the aftermath brought new complexity to the world.So no,"realism" isn't the problem.
MightyZeus
MightyZeus - 12/27/2014, 6:15 PM
I don't mind realism but i actually prefer a serious tone when it comes to comic book movies. It's why i really love Nolan's The Dark Knight Trilogy, Iron Man, Man of Steel, Road to Perdition, Blade 1&2, V for Vendetta and even Captain America The Winter Soldier.

That's not to say that i enjoy comic book movies for being comic book movies eg. Guardians of the Galaxy, The Avengers and Captain America. I guess if it's done in the right way it can be a success.

I think the problem with the Fantastic Four is not that it has a serious tone it's just that there's too many change's that makes fans worried the film won't be familiarized with the comic book Fantastic Four and everyone know's about the Fantastic Four, also FOX is doing and they had two chances but ultimately failed.
sikwon
sikwon - 12/27/2014, 6:45 PM
It's a matter of being done well. Batman Begins and Iron Man were very well done. Mos wasn't. Another thing is with a movie like MoS, it took itself to seriously. I mean it wasn't fun. At all. There was no triumphant moment. An example of what I mean by triumphant moment is when the Avengers form. Ironman lands, the camera spins, the music is there... triumphant! Fun. Specific to MoS and what it was trying to achieve (same with Dark Knight Rises) it just missed. It wasn't done well. People expect a level of realism from Batman, he's a regular dude! People also expect a level of fantastic from superman. The heavy realism and dark feel of the movie literally suck the joy and fun out of it. The FF needs a level of fantastic because they are fantastic characters. The realer everything is the harder it is to suspend belief and watch a man stretch his body 50 yards. The mind just doesn't allow it.
SnapperCarr
SnapperCarr - 12/27/2014, 7:10 PM
Because people mistaken realism for darkness. You can have a quasi-realistic Superman, but it shouldn't be written as dark and dour. Superman the Animated Series already showed a contemporary Superman can be done. Man of Steel took great liberties to make extremely lifeless.
3Traced
3Traced - 12/27/2014, 8:08 PM
Realism is looked down upon in the comic book community? Strange. I am a comic movie fan, never read comics before except walking dead, but I would think if films or film universes did not start in a grounded place that they would be too campy for modern audiences.
sikwon
sikwon - 12/27/2014, 8:26 PM
Snapp has a point. And it's just really hard to pull off realistic in a CBM. There NEEDS to be some levity. Not as much as IM3 but there needs to be balance. The "on your left" scene from winter soldier is a great example. It's funny, it fit, it wasn't overwhelming. Humor is humanizing. Dark and real are very different.
Tars
Tars - 12/27/2014, 10:16 PM
There's a reason people enjoy grounded, gritty stories told within comic books. Just look at The Dark Knight Returns, Watchmen, Batman Year One, Captain America(Brubaker), Daredevil (Miller), The Ultimates, etc
BawbScharf
BawbScharf - 12/27/2014, 10:19 PM
The problem isn't realism.

The problem is that filmmakers believe that Realism = Dark and Gritty.

Most films claiming to have a realistic approach usually MEAN dark and a bit broody. This is mostly in part because the Nolan Bat trilogy was the first franchise to label itself as a 'realistic take.' It was a pseudo realistic approach that also happened to be dark because of the character involved. Unfortunately, fan boys and film makers believed the two were mutually exclusive for this reason. That dark tone worked perfectly with Batman in their realistic approach. That wasn't so much the case with Supes and the upcoming FF. The dark tone does not compliment Superman ...so what happened is that it wasn't realistic at all but instead just dark because Realism = Dark.

I really wish that people would stop claiming that the Nolan trilogy inspired the current MCU. Batman Begins wasn't exactly a blockbuster. It was a good film but its impact was not fully realized until TDK and the performance that MADE that movie. Before the Dark Knight it wasn't 'the super AWESOME Nolan trilogy' that everyone holds as a shining example of cinema. It was merely the interesting Batman Begins sequel which has some questionable casting but we are still CURIOUS to see it. It wasn't the end all be all yet and thus was not what producers were trying to emulate UNTIL TDK. If I a not mistaken, Iron Man was already in the works when Batman Begins was being released and therefore the assumption is still wrong. But ONTOP of THAT, the MCU was a response to not having the rights to Spidey, X-Men, and FF. They wanted to make films under their terms with THEIR characters and thus turned IM into a marque player. The MCU was caused more by Singer and Raimi more than Nolan.

What you have is a great article with that one moment of talking out of your ass probably to fulfill some kind of biased agenda to overplay the Nolan trilogy and down play the MCU. It is not nice to revise history like that as it creates false truths.
Pedrito
Pedrito - 12/27/2014, 11:29 PM
So Nolan inspired the "oh so praised MCU"?
Haha gtfo.
aknightinarkham
aknightinarkham - 12/28/2014, 12:22 AM
@OmegaDaGod

I was with you 100% till you brought up the Nolan Batman films. Aside from the fact that almost every character is characterized incorrectly (I would say Gordon, Alfred, Scarecrow and Joker are the only solid ones, and Joker is certainly a different take but still true to the spirit)there was zero reason to not give Ra's the Lazarus pits, or not give Bane Venom.
aknightinarkham
aknightinarkham - 12/28/2014, 12:24 AM
@ImageDaGod

You realize too that MOS dealing with confusion, angst and alienation isn't marketing towards teens, but making a movie about Superman right?
RextheKing
RextheKing - 12/28/2014, 3:47 AM
Hmm, so Nolan has just been praised for inspiring the MCU now. He seems to be the reason for all the cool stuff in the CBM community nowadays.
DannRamm113
DannRamm113 - 12/28/2014, 6:01 AM
Ok, so some of you have seem to have misread a quote of mine. @RextheKing @Pedrito @Objectivelybiased

"It was in fact believable, it took notes from Batman Begins on how to translate a comic book character into the real world."

Not "The entire franchise of Marvel took inspiration from the great Nolan trilogy and Kevin Feige should sacrifice a first born in honor of Nolan." I think that Marvel now only takes inspiration from themselves by using the same formula multiple times, but that is another point. Just because Iron Man was being written, doesn't mean it can't take ques from a critically and commercially successful film that comes out when it is being written. That's not a bad thing, just something of note.
BIGBMH
BIGBMH - 12/28/2014, 4:55 PM
I don't think most people take issue with the realism of Nolan's films. Batman Begins is an awesome adaptation that captured the spirit of Batman. Man of Steel really didn't do that for Superman and represents the ugly side of "trying to translate this comic book property for a real modern world." When people who don't seem to have a love and understanding of the material try to do a real, modern adaptation instead of working at the core elements and translating them to bring out the compelling aspect and make it work, they alter and overhaul often creating things that aren't as interesting (John Blake).
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