Things that bugged me in TDKR (SPOILERS)

Things that bugged me in TDKR (SPOILERS)

I loved TDKR, but there were a few things that bugged me.

Editorial Opinion
By tomr - Jul 22, 2012 01:07 PM EST
Filed Under: Batman

i thought TDKR was a great movie, but with every movie there were things that bugged me, here they are:

LAW ENFORCEMENT:

i've never seen a movie where the law enforcement agencies were this unbelievably stupid. gotham city is the island of manhattan, so an extremely large and densely populated area. so you're telling me that in order to catch a mercenary terrorist you're sending 98% of your police force underground to find him? here's what's wrong with this:

- if this is not the most obvious trap ever, i don't know what is.
- this leaves a majority of the city unprotected for any crime to take place.

if this is not the most obvious trap ever, i don't know what is this leaves a majority of the city unprotected for any crime to take place. it just doesn't make any sense, and it would never happen. the second half of this that bugs me is that over the period of five months, no government agency was able to infiltrate the island of manhattan. gotham is an island, with a large coast. there's no way that bane's army, which was not extremely large, could patrol every single coastline while also maintaining control of the city, and the bomb as well. it just seems if batman is able to outsmart henchmen at least some government agents should be able to too.

BANE/TALIA/LEAGUE OF SHADOWS:

i thought bane was so freakin' cool, especially his voice and character! i'd always look forward to hearing what he'd say or do next, and that's what i love most about a good villain! i thought they had completely nailed bane as the villain until the talia al ghul reveal. when miranda tate revealed herself as talia, bane just became another henchman. he literally was talia's bitch, and it just ruined him as a character for me. i wanted bane to be the child that climbed out of the pit, not talia. i didn't want to see batman fighting talia at the end, i wanted to see him fighting bane. also, how does that guy eat?!

COMPLEXITY:

it feels like nolan's point with TDKR was too just keep surprising us. unfortunately, that meant a storyline that was ultimately way too complex. everything was reveal, after reveal, after reveal. i loved the simplicity and story lines of the first two films a lot more than this, because i was trying to connect the dots the whole time. i feel like we saw so little of batman throughout the movie, and when we did he was kinda dumb, in my opinion. everything was a hand-to-hand combat scene, with little to know gadgets, or smart techniques used. what happened to the smart batman?

BANE'S DEATH:

bane's death really pissed me off. here's the guy that we've been building up this whole time as a complete bad-ass, i mean, he BROKE the bat! he's come this far and a full out war is occurring in gotham city. not only did he then get bumped down as talia's henchman, he has the most anti-climatic death ever. after all this time all it took was a rocket from the batpod and he was done. bane deserved a better death than that.

ROBIN:

i actually really like how they made john blake a combination of all the robins, but part of me inside died when i realized i'd never see him suit up. one can only dream...

THE PIT:

okay, where the hell was the pit located at? it appeared to be somewhere in europe/middle east/asia so how the hell did bruce wayne get back home so easily and quickly if he was literally broke? another thing he did upon exiting the pit was throw a rope down to the men imprisoned in it. alfred described this place as a prison full of horrible men (i'm paraphrasing), why would bruce wayne, why would batman let all these men leave freely, without knowing what they had done, or who they really were? it also seemed really strange how it was supposedly a horrible prison full of crazed men yet they all help each other out and cheer each other on when they try to escape...i really just didn't get it. also, if it was "bane's prison now" then why would they let the man they were told to keep alive there even try to escape?

BRUCE'S BACK:

this was probably one of the biggest things that bugs me. bane broke bruce's back. in the pit, the man slams the vertebrae back in place (which was nasty, by the way), and eventually he can stand. but pretty much after that, his back heals at an extraordinary rate, so extraordinary that it's ridiculously impossible. shortly after him standing again, you see bruce doing push-ups on the prison floor, and his back looks perfectly fine. i would've hoped that they would have at least made it look like he was in pain, or had some type of mark, but oh well.

what crossed the line for me with his back was when he failed to climb the pit TWICE. if bruce's back was recently broken and he fell all the way down that pit twice, his back would not be able to handle it. he would experience so much excruciating pain without a back injury in the first place from that fall, but somehow it just doesn't affect him. this is where all realism was completely lost, without hope, for me.

ALFRED:

i can't with good faith ever believe that alfred would abandon bruce. i understand why they did it in the film, in order to show exactly what bruce was about to face, but it just wasn't right to me. alfred has stood by bruce's side his whole life, i don't see any reasoning for why he would choose now to leave.

EVERYONE IN GOTHAM IS STUPID:

batman has boatloads of gadgets and expensive toys in which he uses to fight crime, how has no one figured out that their resident billionaire is the caped crusader? okay, maybe i can see past that, but batman and bruce wayne disappeared from the public at the SAME EXACT TIME, how can people, especially jim gordon, see past that gaping coincidence?! he, himself, said he can't believe in them. not only did they disappear at the same time, they both reappear at the same time, and die at the same time. if the citizens of gotham can't put two and two together after all of this, they're the most ignorant group of people in the world. batman's identity should have been blatantly obvious to all of the world at this point.

INFILTRATING GOTHAM:

batman was able to climb a pit, fly across an ocean while broke, and infiltrate the island of gotham, get his equipment back, without anyone noticing. HOW IN THE HELL was no one else able to infiltrate the island in order to provide aid to the extremely small rebellion? i know batman is extremely smart and cunning, but sheesh people, the lack of organization, or any form of tactical aid was mind-blowing. it really bugged me throughout the last act of the film.

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Tainted87
Tainted87 - 7/22/2012, 3:47 PM
This whole movie bugged me. I had an open mind and still, these things just proved WAY distracting.

Bruce is a recluse because outside of Batman and Rachel, he has nothing to live for? An original character made exclusively for the movies... Clearly Nolan doesn't really understand Batman.

GCPD is on the alert because of Bane's all out assault on the stock exchange, with multiple kidnappings and mass murder - but the appearance of Batman after 8 years is more important?

Selina wants to wipe her criminal record clean? Why not just buy a new identity - it's not like she has a whole lot of friends.

Why does Batman trust Selina ALL THE TIME? Is it because she's the first woman he's seen in 8 years?

If Talia really wanted to kill Batman, why didn't she kill Bruce when she was alone with him in the mansion?

If Bruce is penniless, how can he afford to get back to Gotham from (Morocco), and undetected at that?

After his vertebrate is hammered back in place (which somehow worked), after he's survived two nasty plunges from at least 20 feet (bruised ribs are GUARANTEED) while trying to escape the pit... Batman is able to survive another one-on-one with Bane? Not even six months recovery, and what, did his knee injury disappear?

Those kinds of plot elements are highlighted, and then we're expected to pretty much forget them, it's insulting.
BostonBatmanReturns
BostonBatmanReturns - 7/22/2012, 3:50 PM
How do you know wel'll never see Blake suit up?
Advocate
Advocate - 7/22/2012, 4:38 PM
Great article. I think these points really have to be taken into consideration for the person who comes along to install the next Batman series in Hollywood. Part of making a realistic movie, in the way Batman Begins started us off, is not to suspend disbelief, but to make people believe that this sort of thing can actually happen. And even if things are fanciful, they're fantasy in the most real sense. Just as an example, Thor explains cosmological phenomena as astrophysics. Not too elaborate, but there you go, easy as pie (still never got that idiom).

If Batman's back is troubling him, well then show he does the same thing to it that he does to his knee. Anything, just make me believe in the Batman, not Nolan. I don't care who directs it, I want my beloved characters to feel real no matter how outlandish they really seem.

My biggest qualm with the movie was that since the reign of Bane came 8 years after the events of The Dark Knight, there was a huge gap in time where Bruce felt the Batman wasn't necessary. And when he comes back it seems like he comes back for good, to actually rise as the Batman we all know and love, giving the movie and the character some relative base for future adaptations. I at least wish Bruce had hinted at him only doing this Batman thing one last time to get rid of all the loose ends from the League of Shadows. That would make sense. But if that happened, Alfred leaving would be childish, and other elements would be altered. It just drove me nuts thinking about it. The biggest let down was the unplanned reveal that "nope, he's not donning the cowl anymore." Batman might have risen in this movie, but ultimately he fell in my eyes.

All it means to me is that Batman has no other options but to get rebooted. They're not making a fourth film because the epic trilogy has ended...so in a way Nolan kind of boned us hard with that. Don't get me wrong I loved the movie, and Nolan is a great director. I just also love continuity and potential in the future. To do this ending justice, they should have just had him die.
ager
ager - 7/22/2012, 5:38 PM
her's my answers as best i can

- you are 100% correct about the trap scenario. I have no answer.

-"the second half of this that bugs me is that over the period of five months, no government agency was able to infiltrate the island of manhattan."

- army was told that if any enter the bomb goes off


BANE/TALIA/LEAGUE OF SHADOWS:

-how does that guy eat?!

-he goes through immense pain to do so, i imagine

COMPLEXITY:

-Wayne is dumb, and weak and rusty. He's been a recluse for the past 8 years.

BANE'S DEATH:

-after all this time all it took was a rocket from the batpod and he was done. bane deserved a better death than that.

-rockets hurt. they are pretty painful as far as i can tell.


THE PIT:

-how the hell did bruce wayne get back home so easily and quickly if he was literally broke?

-made a call to Fox, maybe he jacked a jet, there are several guesses for something one doesn't need to question. if one questions that, than why not question EVERYTHING

-throw a rope down to the men imprisoned in it.

-my best guess is he wasn't thinking clearly. maybe so they can get revenge on Bane if he fails

-it also seemed really strange how it was supposedly a horrible prison full of crazed men yet they all help each other out and cheer each other on when they try to escape

-strange places make strange bedfellows. it brings about a unity at times


-if it was "bane's prison now" then why would they let the man they were told to keep alive there even try to escape?

-they believed he could take Bane down and/or he promised to throw them the aforementioned rope if he were to escape. Maybe that's the rule of the pit

BRUCE'S BACK:

-it was not over an hour, ya know. it was several months. the time it would take someone with the will of Bruce Wayne to recoup. it was (fairly) believable

ALFRED:

-he was failing his promise to Thomas and Martha. by letting Bruce be the bat, he was not protecting him. He knew, after 8 years of doing nothing that he could very well die.


EVERYONE IN GOTHAM IS STUPID:

-agian, why question the small things we, as fans and viewers, are asked to overlook and use our imaginations for. i suppose you'll be writing about how dumb Metropolis is too

95
95 - 7/22/2012, 6:10 PM
Let me start off by saying that I adore this film. IMAX made it a lot better for me. However, I recognize all of the problems with this film. GCPD is stupid. To be fair, they've always been. They let a "stock exchange robber" pass right by them, and dumbass Foley (acting like a certain former US President) ordered all 100 cop cars or so to continue on Batman instead of the robber. Not one car even attempted to knock the robber off the motorbike. Once again, they let the bad guy go. And that made all the Police deaths a comedy to me.

I didn't have a problem with the Underground Raid so much as to why the city is so calm with shit like this happening. Still having a Football Game when the Stock Exchange was robbed. And known terrorist are still out there. This was an incredibly fun film and as smart as any Marvel film, but it's Christopher Nolan's worst script. But still the best Action film I've ever experienced.

@tomr Without forcing myself, I was so excited that I naturally ignored all these "problems". But I agree that these are legitimate problems.
batfan175
batfan175 - 7/22/2012, 6:13 PM
ummm...isn't the point of the movie that bane's reputation was actually as much a lie as Bruce wayne taking the blame for harvey dent's crimes, So isn't bane actually very weak while being incredibly tough at the same time, i think that kind of death establishes once and for all that Batman cannot continue on his own. without help he would've died at the hands of bane.
95
95 - 7/22/2012, 6:24 PM
Bane had to die from a big gun. He's a big guy. It came out of no where, but it's a good in-theater moment. Her remark was funny, had the audience cheering. Selina Kyle is a smart woman, so glad she didn't agree with the "no guns" policy. So glad they covered that topic. Haha, I like the way Bane flew back. I need to see this film again.
DraculaX
DraculaX - 7/22/2012, 7:56 PM
I agree with Bane's death and Talia should had been with him in the beginning. And I have this crazy theory that Superman brought Bruce back to Gotham, but we all know that didn't happen.
BrowniesExplode
BrowniesExplode - 7/22/2012, 8:27 PM
The cops aren't stupid they got trap without knowing it was a trap and this all happen because 1. Gordon was in the hospital and foley made the order to go get bane out and the order to get the batman because he thought he killed Harvey.

Also the back thing was fixed and the guy just told bruce to stand which will hurt but help him and he also worked out to

Alfred left because he felt since bruce hasn't been batman for eight years why go back out

lapress
lapress - 7/22/2012, 8:58 PM
aw, man. this was too funny. thanks for the laughs, tomr!
xcrementus
xcrementus - 7/22/2012, 9:21 PM
@tomr...i totally agree with everything. Little lapses in logic like this really bring the movie down to 3rd ranking in the series. Also hated the ending.

Why would Bruce make Alfred track the pearls all the way across the world to an italian cafe, just to see if Bruce was still alive? Has he never heard of phones? or letters? What a jerk!
And whoring around with Selina? she killed so many people, and enjoyed being a criminal. Isn't that what Batman has been against since forever? Fine, bang her, why not, but to run away with her?
Its not like Alfred spent night after night sewing up Bruce's wounds or nething. Sheesh, what a slap in the face. Really made the ending bitter for me.
Thanos005
Thanos005 - 7/23/2012, 4:41 AM
Nolan is a great director and all, but the man is TERRIBLE at villain defeats. Look at the examples.

Scarecrow: Tazed in the face by Rachel.
Ras Al Ghul: Batman flips him on his back and flies away.
Joker: Okay, this one was perfect in my eyes. Lots of tension, and tied up WONDERFULLY.
Two Face: Falls 25-ish feet.
Bane: Blown away by Catwoman.
Talia: Truck crashes.

I love these movies, but their villain conclusions could all be much better.
tomr
tomr - 7/23/2012, 4:46 AM
@lapress i would be offended, but you failed to offer any form of an educated response.
KeithM
KeithM - 7/23/2012, 7:25 AM
I just posted my response to the film elsewhere (without reading anyone else's first). We share a lot of the same gripes. :)
Rhino22
Rhino22 - 7/23/2012, 8:35 AM
I think most of the complaints (mine included) about this movie can be summed up by saying that too many elements were outside of believablity. That was the key to the success of the first two films: no matter how unlikely to happen the elements were, they didn't require you to roll your eyes and say that it was ridiculous. I found myself doing that several times during this film and most are encapsulated by this editorial (Wayne's miraculous back recovery & return to Gotham, the entire Gotham PD running headstrong into the tunnels with no regard for proper tactics, and also the instability of the reactor's having a guesstimated timetable of around five months until explosion suddenly having a precise countdown, just to name a few). The other major issue for me was the spoilers seen in the previews. The opening sequence with the plane didn't have nearly the same impact on me as the opening in The Dark Knight simply because I had already seen it. The same was true of the football field explosion. I know that previews have to give you a taste to whet your appetite but seeing those things ahead of time ruined them for me in the movie. Not to mention the not-so-subtle flash of Miranda Tate's scar by the fireplace but I think I'll bring this to an end with that. Certainly a very good movie but not a great movie like The Dark Knight.
rappertotheneverlands
rappertotheneverlands - 7/23/2012, 8:44 AM
"AHAHAHAHAWHOHEHEHEAHAWHOWHOHAHA AND I THOUGHT MY JOKES WERE BAD?"

Look, TDKR was completely understandable. Just not every bit in detail on how.
Bane drinks the blood, in the prologue it is shown, but not in too detail.
And Bane's death, maybe he is dead or maybe he isn't, calm t'f down. It was a rocket that hit him, he's a big ass dude to be taken down by hand. So the easiest for Batman was to destroy his mask which hides his pain.
Talia Al Ghul was a huge shock to me knowing she was somebody else, and the set pics were shown that it was a girl so of course bane wasn't a girl back then.But, sadly Bane was a henchman in the end.
Christopher Nolan knew what he was doing with this series ever since "THE DARK KNIGHT" To me this series are all individualy amazing. BB showed the surprise, TDK showed the chaos, and TDKR showed the emotional pain and shock.
Madmex93
Madmex93 - 7/23/2012, 10:47 AM
Considering that Nolan's Batman films are allegorical of 911 doesn't it make sense that the law enforcement are kinda incompetent. Just think of how badly intelligence agencies messed up in preventing the plane hijacks.
MrReese
MrReese - 7/23/2012, 7:27 PM
Banes death was disappointing.N I think Wayne thru the rope down because nobody should live like that.Even if they were criminals.
lapress
lapress - 7/23/2012, 8:56 PM
@tomr No, sorry! I meant that i agreed with everything you were saying, and the frustration of the movie, dude. Didnt mean to say anything negative, man. Thats not me.
joekerr93
joekerr93 - 7/24/2012, 12:01 AM
He threw the rope down because you still have to climb up the rope to get out. Which no one since Talia has accomplished. No one was getting out. It also seemed to be implied that it was Bane's prison now...I think he puts his enemies down there, or people in his way, not actual criminals, whom he would either kill or employ. And I'm sure Bane wasn't worried about Bruce escaping. He didn't care, and if he managed it, he assumed he'd just beat down Batman again.

Also the mask DOES come off. Bane can eat that way, it is just excruciatingly painful for him. I think he was drinking or something with the mask lifted when Gordon is down in the sewers.

Gordon also never WANTED to know or CARED who Batman was. He didn't look into it on purpose, but I'm sure he had suspicions, like in the comics. When Batman mentions that moment as a child, I'm sure it was just the final piece that solves the puzzle.

My only real issue with Bane's death was that there was no final shot for it. Never showed him dead, or his final seconds or a last gasp or anything. The death itself was acceptable because in that moment Batman couldn't beat him, and Catwoman wouldnt be able to do it without the Bat Pod....
lnTylerWeTrust
lnTylerWeTrust - 7/24/2012, 12:17 AM
True on everything, very dumb moves on Nolan
tomr
tomr - 7/24/2012, 7:04 AM
@lapress i apologize for reading that wrong, man! i've gotten a lot of flack from people that have read this on different sites so i've been kinda defensive :p
tomr
tomr - 7/24/2012, 7:05 AM
@jokerr93 i think i would've loved TDKR a millon times more if in the end gordon turned to him and just said "i never cared who you were bruce..." and that's how they ended it. oh well, it was a fun movie to watch regardless!
joe384
joe384 - 7/24/2012, 12:56 PM
My thoughts about the movie were overall great! But I did think Taila's character was not flesh out enought for her being such a main character in the comics. I don't have a problem with the Bane tie in to Taila's, and really thought it gave more emotion to a villian than what has been seen before on screen. I thought Anne's Catwomen was great, and really did still every scene she was in, as did JGL, and his John Blake ( Robin ) character which the way the movie ended was just fine.
If we all had our shot in the director's chair, there's a ton of things we would change. But let's see how many of you or other great directors out there make a movie trilogy about Batman, as great and successful as Nolan has done.
AC1
AC1 - 7/24/2012, 2:35 PM
most of these are genuine points to consider, but i can clarify a couple.

The Pit - When the child escapes, Ra's Al Ghul recruits all the prisoners to the League Of Shadows, except Bane, who he frees but doesn't allow to join. Bane later takes to imprisoning people down there, either as prisoners or slaves. That's why Bruce freed them.

As for Bane's diet, he could be fed with liquid via a tube into his stomach.

What I still don't get is how he punched into a concrete pillar.
samster10001
samster10001 - 7/24/2012, 11:10 PM
Here's a question. Who the [frick] was bane?
batmanbane
batmanbane - 9/6/2012, 12:51 PM
What makes you think Bane is dead? Batman specifically warned her not to kill, and even though Selina playfully acknowledges their disagreement over the issue, my reading of the scene is that she merely knocked Bane out with a stun blast.
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