Batman V Superman a DCEU gateway

Batman v Superman and the hate.

You may ask yourselves why and you may not. Depends on the level of disappointment you have for the movie. Personally on this site I am considered a fan boy of DC and in a big way I am. We are not going to argue over that right now as i have many times attacked movies produced by them in a big way. Let’s take a closer look at the movie in discussion, for sure this is not a Batman V Superman movie, we can all agree on that, what it is a DCEU intro movie.

Why do I say that, well obviously it gives us a Batman introduction inspired by multiple sources like the Frank Miller comics and some elements of the beloved Batman TAS.

Ben Affleck delivered for sure on his end of the movie, all the Batman parts of the movie work and make us want more from WB/DC on the side of a solo franchise. Now one problem for fans of the Nolan trilogy and the Burton movies, will be - the existence of super powered humans, aliens and non-believable characters.

Well I can definitely testify that seeing Doomsday and Batman in the same place was one of the big minus moments in the theatre for the general audience in attendance with me. I could hear some comments on the way out and its definitely not a plus after seeing non fans react. They would compare this to the Batman and Robin movie, where we had a somewhat over done performance of Mr. Freeze which plus other things killed the franchise. Now we have already had a dose of such characters in Marvel and DC, Sony and others, but the reaction is something I do understand from their perspective since they are movie lovers and not comic book fans.



The introduction of the Batman character reminded me of Miller’s work, Alien franchise and it was right on point for DC fans for sure. However, make no mistake, movie tickets are sold not only to them, so any good executive will think twice of including a Killer Croc like character in a solo Bat movie or basically anyone that is too weird for general audience. Well you would ask, but they do it all the time in Marvel, but do they?



Think about it, you have a Hulk movie, and the bad guy is basically a Doomsday like character, why didn’t they vote that movie down on Rotten Tomatoes with a 29 % score. Well it’s pretty easy actually, the movie sets up that science fiction tone from the moment you see Ed Norton transform into the Hulk, from that point on we can expect even an animated CGI mutated dog to come along and fight him like it happened in Hulk (released 2003 sitting currently on 61 % on Rotten Tomatoes).






None of the Batman movie has ever gone full retard with the introduction of a non-realistic villain except Batman and Robin, which we all know how that ended up both critically and financially. We have had The Joker, Penguin, Catwoman, Two Face, Riddler, Ra’s Al Ghul, Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, Scarecrow, Bane, and some minor other offenders. Even the more out-there villains can be explained in some form to be done justice, with Doomsday however it is a bit more over the Batman’s believability level.



A few scenes in the movie do not work well and one of them is the Doomsday due to the heavy CGI. Now would I personally love any character played by a human with no CGI villains, yes I would. Let’s face reality however as studios are now more or less inclined to push for original material from the comic book movies, then for example coming up with originally written material by the actual writers. We are in the age of the comic book movie cash machine and everyone thinks that this is because of Marvel apparently, but do not take Marvel for a company that is not involved with suits and studio execs and is not thinking for their non geek audience.


As you can tell, Iron Man is one of their MCU properties who reached his 3^rd solo movie and was an audience hit. If you take a closer look you will see that in all 3 movies the villain was a corporate evil doer bent on creating similar technology or more advanced one.

I personally grew up with Iron Man TAS and my favorite villain is the Mandarin, which I didn’t get too see in any of the MCU movies. I believe the decision is more or less made by a studio exec or some sort of money concern person over at Disney studios.

In that capacity I can agree with them fearing the general audience and their feedback, you are not making over 1 billion based on geeks like us. And to be quite honest my entire circle of friends has never read a comic book in their entire life and do not know anyone besides the big names from DC and Marvel. Anyone like Thanos and Doomsday is a big no, and I kind of understand them to some extent. The big moment where The Lord of the Rings movies lost me was the evil protagonist of the franchise which was more or less a CGI creation that left many non-fans disappointed due to the lack of a human face they can use as a bouncing off point for their motivation.

Now we can all agree that some of the things in the comics are pretty out there and cannot be explained to a normal viewer, one is Thanos affection for a woman who is actually Death or a villain that collects cities. I have wondered if Doomsday could have been done with using an actor with prosthetics and then just enlarging the visuals with CGI and making him a bit more buffed up than Clark. I am no expert so I would just assume they can’t or don’t have the technology to represent my exact idea.



Let’s get back to the main idea that the GA (General Audience for future references) that liked, enjoyed and went and made the TDK trilogy a 2.5 Billion franchise is already set on that tone and is probably going to shy away from a Batman Killer Croc movie or Solomon Grundy story on the big screen. Then what do we do, as I see it we have several options, use Batman from here on for the Justice League movies as their main anchor, the brains, the financial support maybe, the guy that doesn’t jump to any fight without coming up with a strategy. Let Batman be the detective and the brains of the missions, we have enough meta humans that can do the fighting for him, but none of them have that experience so far in the DCEU with the exclusion of Wonder Woman to think for every outcome. In his solo movies we can keep him in a somewhat non meta human story level and tell other classics like A Death in the family, Under the Red Hood and Hush.


Also with the soon to be released Suicide Squad, we are definitely going to expand on his villain gallery and make a cross between his universe, their universe and hint at other characters from DC that are more street level and can easily co-exist with him. One example is the Green Arrow universe that might or might not be explored soon due to the very big similarity with Bruce Wayne in some aspects.

All in all, the future for Ben Affleck’s Batman is somewhat bright as we are going to get that detective, builder, towering over others vigilante that can outsmart Superman given the right circumstances.


Now let’s get back to the meta side of the DCEU, we have a Superman that will soon be reborn or most likely benched for Justice League 1 and brought back in Justice League 2.

Warner brothers showed us that they do not care about killing a major franchise lead, even with knowing the story-line and what’s to come, I am sure that 80 % of the GA had 0 clue what that means for the future and were left shocked at the end. To be honest I can see their angle from a world building perspective, Superman is a hard character to have on screen for too many movies. He is indeed a one-man army that can wipe out entire planets in a week.

We already saw Zod and Doomsday and not many others can go hand to hand with him from the super powered villains, Brainiac is too weird for a movie maybe and will cause another big GA WTF moment. As we see those are not critics favorite things to defend or score appropriately and I am positive such a movie directed by anyone will be brought down. I personally would love it, it opens the door for a very space science fiction take on it, but one that will not bring in a lot of kids and money. Snyder as hated as he is right now on this website (you will be seeing that in the comment section soon) did a very strategic move with killing him, he left a door open for a strong scene either in Justice League 1 or 2, where he comes back and helps the team in a critical moment and in the same way redeemed the status of Superman in the public eye and showed people what makes Superman what he is.


Batman V Superman did a fair job of portraying Superman both from the comics and from our real world with one question – does the world need a Superman?

It is a hard question so I will avoid giving any answers to it, but I am fascinated by many of the scenes where he is looking to find the answer from those close to him.

I can say for sure what surprised me in this movie was Wonder Woman, I expect a glorified cameo and she won over the non-fans of the comic books like I never seen before. I have been spamming my non-geek friends with Batman, Superman and Flash information for so long that I found myself surprised when I had to answer questions about her character and when her solo movie is coming out. That was indeed a shocker I must admit.


The cameos we got from Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg were mixed for me. I loved the scene with Flash coming to warn Bruce Wayne about events that are going to happen eventually, as a longtime fan of the comics and animated movies I can say that was spectacular. Aquaman was interesting to me and sort of made me relax about his solo movie, what they teased assured me that a movie is not that farfetched and it could actually work very well.  I can’t say I am a big fan of the director chosen for the solo movie, but I am willing to take a back seat and not judge the guy purely on the Fast 7 movie he is involved with. Not a very big horror fan, but I do find his directorial work visually compelling in a way.


As for Cyborg, I can only say that I wasn’t really seeing him portrayed this way, but again with a cameo only to judge, I wouldn’t want to bash him before I see something more extended.

The movie could have easily skip the entire Doomsday part and really focus on the Batman V Superman conflict and then use Lex as the only villain, and make the issue more or less about the knowledge he got from the Kryptonian archives (which is where Lex found about Darkseid and his arrival).

Now what are the main problems with the movie, definitely the Doomsday part of it and the comic book tie ins.




Many of you would not agree, but DC are doing a strict and faithful adaptation of their comics and storylines. This might end up against them with the GA. Marvel have built a world where they use a lot of source material directly or more Easter- egg(y) sort of like. They use the villains and points which could be liked or at least understood by their fans and they stay away from more obscure villains and stories. Now don’t get me wrong, they did go out to space and did a better Star Wars movie then JJ at some point with a talking raccoon and a tree, but they did turn the attention to the fun element, to the comedy aspect and how fricking cute those two were, this also explains why Avengers and Guardians are not crossing over for those current events.
Even with all their success in the box-office we can still see where they failed to gather as much attention as their previous work. Captain America The Winter Soldier was heavily marketed as a political thriller and did some very Dark Knight serious tone moments that catered to non-geeks.

Where a movie like Thor The Dark World did similar numbers in the box-office (100 Million less) it did not get the same praise as Winter Soldier. To be quite honest the score for Thor 2 on Rotten Tomatoes sitting at 66 % is a bit high, but never the less, it had a dark tone, a villain which failed to deliver any substance, motivation or performance that could be remembered. Still the studio crammed some of the first movie humor in this, not so bright movie.


Since Iron Man 2008, this has been an inseparable part of their movies, Hulk hitting Thor, Robert Downey JR making jokes with the military convoy escorting him, Thor wanting a cat big enough to ride, Thor in the subway holding his hammer like a regular passenger, Groot dancing to The Jackson 5 and Ant-Man doing something funny (sorry but really didn’t find that amusing).
With DC this tone wouldn’t work on Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman or Aquaman.

It might be a good point for Flash, Teen titans or Cyborg, but not going to be usable for many others lined up for a solo movie. That needs to be addressed one way or another because I wouldn’t be ok with a scene where Batman is traveling with the bus due to an incident with the Batmobile, or having him kick rats while jamming to Kanye West and smiling. Not going to be a positive that is for sure. Same way is how I feel about Superman and Wonder Woman, humor can be inserted via other characters and made part of the movie, but I am unable to invest myself in a movie that is having the people that decide our faiths do fart jokes or act silly while millions of people die.

I mean at least use the humor in the movies that already feel like a lighter and unserious movie in tone, make Flash the annoying member of The Justice League, make Green Lantern the guy that loves to make fun of him and exchange one-liners, but please do not use that on the more serious comic book characters.

Should Zack Snyder be left to direct the Justice League movies or just be used as an executive producer and a visual consultant, honestly I don’t know. Did I have an issue or two with Batman V Superman, yes I did. Were they all things that are 100 % owned by him, I am not sure. In anyway I don’t decide such things and I will not have to make that choice, but I think that after Justice League like any director he should step down due to the fact that fresh eyes are always better for a franchise after you have been stuck in this world for too long.

I can’t really name any preferred directors, but I would like if they aren’t coming from big franchises and known movies. Take chances like you did with Nolan.
The reviews I have seen on Rotten Tomatoes and the big outcry by Marvel fans mocking the scores given by the critics is overwhelmingly stupid and unjustified.
Let’s turn back time, iron Man gets released in 2008 –good critical reception with a score of 94 % on RT, was the movie good and a great starting point to the MCU, yes it was. Is Robert Downey Tony Stark in the flesh, yes he is.

But let’s be honest for a moment, the movie failed to deliver a good 3^rd act and a memorable villain, it was the RDJR humor fest and that won over GA. The other phase 1 movies were all similar in tone except maybe Captain America and The Incredible Hulk, which didn’t see much box office success even with mostly good scores from critics.

Now you all rushed and killed the DCEU while still an infant at movie number two, but the reality is that whatever Batman V Superman did wrong it also set the Justice League up in a single movie. With their first weekend delivering 424 Million, we can at least assume it will bring a Billion dollars and cover the 250 Million cost and still leave some profit for the studio. How much it will do, I will not be able to predict the final amount, but enough to ensure Flash getting made.

Suicide Squad is ready and Wonder Woman is half there, with a little over a month left on the Justice League we know the ones we will get for sure.

I am aware that some of you wake up and check Rotten Tomatoes every day and with each % lower your hearts are filled with joy. Yes, I am aware that you will try to criticize the movie for many things to come in the coming months and that this will be a much more hated movie that Man of Steel. I am personally not scoring BVS with a 10/10 and I will remove 2.5 points for the Doomsday part. But looking at the scores there just makes me wonder, how does one give a positive 61 % review of Hulk and a way more positive review for Hunger Games (Mocking Jay part 2) at 70 % and then simple decides that BVS is worse than any of those movies. For me the hate has been building due to the fact that is Zack Snyder in the chair and that people will not stop complaining that there is no humor.

Well I can tell you only one thing, some of the scenes in Batman V Superman remind me of great moments in cinema period, some remind me of a DC animated feature. The movie is not perfect and it’s also their 2^nd movie. It took a whole phase for MCU to find their holy grail with humor, and with DC we now have a small idea of what works in a shared universe and what doesn’t. The things that work will be amplified and the others will disappear soon in my opinion.


The things that definitely need to stay are the humor that we saw between Alfred and Bruce, Clark, Louis and Perry, the out there comic book moments like Flash’s message from the past/future, the Batman tone introduced, Wonder Woman going back in time and telling us her story through the ages.
 
Things that need to go are the CGI animation used for Doomsday, the multiple character stories outside of the Justice league movies involving Batman and why the [frick] did Lex have logos designed for them. Anyway I truly hope David Ayer brought the Suicide Squad to life and made a brand new comic book movie experience for all us and hopefully Ben is busy writing that solo Batman movie right about now.

And to all you Marvel fans, do not think that the low scores means trouble only for us, soon you will make a movie about a Pink-ish CGI villain that will battle all of The Avengers and you might end up on freaky territory with the critics. The movie will be directed by the Russos, which by then would be at movie number 3 and that is usually when a director [frick]s up a trilogy. This might be the cause for issues for all CB movies. One way or another the genre will become over saturated for the GA and they will start giving their money to other block busters like they did with Jurassic World and Fast 7.

This could be either be bad or very bad, not all superheroes can exist outside of a shared universe and you know it.
Let’s hope the remaining movies of the year do good on all levels.

Final thought BVS is a DCEU movie that sets up a lot of other origin and team up movies in 2 30 minutes, it is not the TDK or Guardians of the Galaxy, but its definitely not Fantastic Four. I have seen the movie twice now and will do a 3^rd time for sure.