Thoughts on Marvel Comics

Thoughts on Marvel Comics

This article is about Marvel Comics. A review on the different aspects of the comics and the possibilities of a reboot.

Editorial Opinion
By Utopian8418 - Jun 25, 2016 12:06 PM EST
Filed Under: Marvel Comics
Marvel comics is going through a very controversial period. The 'status quo' has been shaken, and most of the main characters have been changed/put on hold temporarily while other characters take the centre stage. I think this is a good idea for 2 reasons:
 
1. Diversity: These 'new' characters are mostly minorities, and while many call these changes 'Political Correctness' I like to just call them 'Correctness'. You see, the top 20-25 most popular superheroes are caucasian. This is a fact, and its even worse if you consider all the other popular heroes from Star Wars, LOTR, Harry Potter, etc. This is unfair and it has to change. 
 
2. Character Development: Marvel has been telling stories of its characters for 50 YEARS. Sometimes, it is nice to take a break from the same old stories and characters, to see new ones. It is nice to see the world go forward and change. To wonder what would happen if this kid became Nova? Or if this woman became Thor? Or if this famous superhero died? Yes, we know it will change in a year or 2, but I think that people are missing the point. All of this is just about telling stories. Stories about individuals, adventure and heroism. 

 
Again, I believe that shaking things up was a good idea, but it was definetley not executed very well. Now, some of these 'new' characters are really great, but others not so much. We have 2 Captain Americas, 2 Spidermans, 2 Wolverines (kind of), 3 Wasps (kind of) and 2 Hawkeyes. Many fans have been asking for a reboot of Marvel Comics in the style of DC's The New 52, to retcon and simplify the storyline. I think that this was the idea after Secret Wars, the culmination of a fantastic Avengers run by Jonathan Hickman. However, I believe that this was a missed opportunity. 
 
I will outline my thoughts on the state of each aspect of the new Marvel Universe and what I would have done with them after a reboot.
 
THE 'BIG THREE'
Thor, Steve Rogers and Tony Stark are Marvel's Holy Trinity. I think that it is a good idea that the 3 of them take a break from the centre stage and temporarily pass their mantles. Cap and Thor have done so, but Tony has done the opposite. Ironman is currently the leader of the Avengers, the second main character of Spiderman's book and the main character of Marvel's big event Civil War II. This just doesn't feel right. I think he should join the Ultimates to go explore the mysteries of time and space (more on that later) or something. And obviously, pass his mantle to James Rhodes. Also, Steve has already become young again and its weird because there are 2 Captain Americas (and he is Hydra now or something). I think he should have remained old longer and become director of SHIELD. Thor should go on a personal journey through the 9 realms (maybe with his sister Angela?) to recover his worthiness. Then, in a year or so, the 3 would make a glorious return (along with Banner-Hulk)in some event. 
 
THE FANTASTIC FOUR
The Fantastic Four book has been cancelled. The Richards family is nowhere to be found. Ben Grimm has joined the GotG and Jhonny Storm is currently an Avengers member, serving as ambassador of the Inhumans on Earth, and having an affair with Queen Medusa of the  Inhumans. This is completley wrong since he has had a very strong relationship with the Queen's sister Crystal. I would have loved to see Jhonny join Ben with the GotG and the Richards family join the Ultimates team.
 
THE ULTIMATES
I love this book. The concept is great, a team of people that has proposed itself to 'solve everything'. They are having the most crazy and outlandish cosmic adventures on the Marvel Universe, including evolving Galactus into a 'Creator' instead of a 'Destructor' of worlds, travelling into outside of time and space to 'fix time' and finding out the mystery of who chained the personification of reality itself. The only problem I have with this is the team. It is composed of Captain Marvel, Black Panther, and some other characters who I had no idea existed and who just don't belong together doing what they are doing. I would have loved it if the team was a group of the greatest minds of the planet, the former Illuminati. Stark, Beast, Black Bolt, Black Panther and Pym (now merged with Ultron, more on that later) and the Richards family. Franklin Richards should finally grow up, and become Galactu's master and friend (this was teased before in the comics).

THE X-MEN
The thing that bothers me the most about these books is the 'All New' team of the young xmen from the past. It has been FOUR YEARS now, that Marvel decided it was a good idea to bring the young x-men of the past to the present for some reason and It seems that this storyline is going nowhere. Similarly, we have Old Man Logan from the future in the present just because they killed off Wolverine and can't use him. The X-Men book should be about the x-men of the present. It has been too long now and we need the classic X-Men. Bring Joss Whedon back, bring Wolverine back, and bring Cyclops back (not Xavier). Maybe they could do a Cyclops and Wolverine limited series where they go on a Jean Grey-related adventure and where their relashionship is healed.
 
INHUMANS
I think that the Inhumans are doing great. The Terrigen Bomb was brilliant, and it expanded their world in infinite ways.

SPIDER-MAN
Peter Parker: Contrary to popular opinion, I am loving Slott's run on Amazing Spiderman. The Peter-Tony-Mary Jane relationship is great. The book is hinting that Aunt May will die and That Peter and MJ are getting back together, as it should be. I hope they get married again, going full circle and erasing the 'One More Day' storyline from our memories. I also hope that Peter becomes the leader of the Avengers. The villain, Regent, is also great. He owns a supervillain prison and he created an armor with all of the villain's powers. However, I feel that he belongs more in the Avenger's book (He is ridiculously powerful and he took down all of the Avengers one by one). 
Now, the real controversy surrounding the book is that Peter became 'the new Tony Stark' as CEO of Parker Industries. I believe that this is a cool and natural development of the character. He can't be a kid forever and he can't always struggle to pay the rent and have mediocre jobs because he is a genius and he doesn't deserve it. We can't have the same stories forever (you can read the old ones if you want) and this makes the Marvel Universe in general change in new and interesting ways. Many people argue that Peter should be an average guy but I disagree. He is not just the average guy but also what the average guy wants to be. He is a superhero.
 
Miles Morales: I know that he has a large fanbase, but I just don't like him. I don't like the suit, and he is just black Peter Parker. He worked in a world where Peter died, but it just doesn't work to have 2 spider-mans, with the same codename. This is dumb, Marvel. He should have his own series set in a a different world like Spider-Gwen. Besides, the 'nerdy teenage with super powers in school' thing is already being done by Khamala Khan in a much better way.
 
ANT-MAN/ GIANT-MAN
This is one of the best marvel comics going on right now. It deals with Scott Lang moving to Miami to take care of his daughter and dealing with the underworld of supervillains. The one problem I have with it is the new Giant-man, Raz Malhorta. He is a cool fun character and all but I really wanted Cassie Lang to be the new Giant-Woman. I think she has great potential. I hated when they killed her off, and when they brought her back I really wanted her to assume the Giant-Woman role and join the Avengers but she had lost her powers. And now that she finally got powers back, she assumed yet another name?? She is now called Stinger, but she looks exactly like the Wasp, despite the fact that Marvel has JUST created a new Wasp (Hank Pym's daughter) who joined the Avengers. Neither the new Wasp or the new Giant-Man should exist. Scott should be Antman, Cassie Giant-Woman and Janet Van Dyne Wasp. Hank Pym on the other side has recently come back from the presumed-dead, merged with Ultron. However, I think it was a mistake to make him a villain right away. I would have found it far more interesting if he remained as a good guy.
 
THE DEFENDERS
Yes, I decided to group all this guys together. Luke Cage, Iron fist, Jessica Jones, Daredevil, Punisher and Elektra. I grouped them mainly because I think they are all being handled very well and I guess I have not much to say about them. Both the Luke Cage/ Iron Fist book and the Daredevil book specially are pretty great.
 
JANE-THOR
Awesome character, dumb name. Naming her Thor doesn't make sense, this is a fact. But it is also a fact that Jason Aaron may be the best Thor writer in history. He knocked it out of the park with the God Butcher saga before Thor lost his hammer, and now he is knocking it out again with Jane.
 
KAMALA KHAN
Again. Awesome character, dumb name. Naming her Ms Marvel was a cheap move by Marvel, she should stand on her own.
 

OTHERS
Sam Wilson as Cap, Amadeus Cho as Hulk, X-23 as Wolverine, Sam Alexander as Nova and Nick Fury Jr as Nick Fury are OK in my opinion. I saw great potential specially on Sam as Cap, but it has mainly been underwhelming.
 
THE AVENGERS
There are currently 3/4 different Avengers teams, and they are all incredibly bad. None of them make sense, and the 'hierarchy' of it all feels wrong and incoherent. First I will outline what I feel is wrong about each of the teams and then I will say what I would have done with the Avengers after a reboot.
 
Uncanny Avengers-Unity Squad
Steve Rogers, the Human Torch, Quicksilver, Rogue, some Inhuman, Cable, Brother Voodoo and Deadpool. This roster feels wrong to me. Deadpool and Human Torch shouldnt't be Avengers. Steve Rogers was old for a long part of the run which didnt make sense because then why make him old and pass his mantle if he can keep fighting anyway? Last issue had Hank Pym returning from space having merged with Ultron, and being evil. I think this is cliche and a wasted opportunity. I dont think anyone wants yet another Ultron story. A hero Pym-Ultron on the other side and new villains are much more interesting. But I think that the biggest problem of the book is its own premise. The team was formed after the Avengers vs Xmen event to show people that humans and mutants could work together. But this doesn't make sense because they already did that! Mutants Scarlet Witch, Quick Silver and Beast were among the earliest Avengers members, and many more came after them. It would be relevant if the team had Cap fighting alongside Cyclops but not this. Also the book has awful art.
 
New Avengers-Avengers Idea Mechanics (AIM)
Hawkeye and some teens taking ordes from Sunspot. Again, this doesnt feel like the Avengers. The premise is weird, the art is awful and they have a dumb name.
 
The Avengers Avengers
Falcon-Cap, Jane-Thor, Khamala Khan, Miles Morales, Nova, Ironman, Vision and now the new Wasp. This is a team that I believed had great potential but turned out underwhelming. Maybe the biggest problem I have with it is Tony Stark. This book was supposed to be about fresh, original stories and new characters taking the center stage. So having Iron Man there just doesn't fit and it overshadows the others. They should be fighting new original bad guys (like Regent) and earn the respect they deserve among the superhero community but this has not happened yet. Pleasent Hil didn't really feel like an Avengers story to me, they made Steve get younger again (overshadowing everyone else)and now Civil War II is taking the focus away from them again. They need an event just for themselves. Moreover, I am not comfortable with 4 out of 8 members of the 'official' Avengers team being teens.
 
A-Force
She-Hulk, Captain Marvel, Medusa, Dazzler and Nico Minoru. I don't really have a problem with this book. Its just fine.
 
WHAT I WOULD HAVE DONE WITH THE AVENGERS
If I could have rebooted the Marvel Universe after Secret Wars, I would have established 3 Avengers teams, all in charge of Steve Rogers (who can't fight because he's old). Team Alpha, Team Beta and Team Omega or something would be tasked with different missions by Steve. They would all get funds and salaries provided by Parker Industries.
 
Avengers- Legacy
 Thor (Jane Foster), Cap (Sam Wilson), Ironman (James Rhodes), Ms Marvel (Khamala Khan), Hulk (the Chinese guy), Wolverine (X-23) and Hawkeye (Clint Barton). They would take residence on Stark Tower. They would be assigned by Steve Rogers to look into Regent. This would be the main team. They are taking over the mantles of the biggest Avengers (Hawkeye is there to provide some connection to the more classic members). Sam would lead. I want to see a cool bromance between Sam and Rhodey, and a cool romance between Sam and Jane. They need a crossover event where they really get to prove themselves (I will later outline possible events).
 
Avengers- Assemble
Vision, Scarlet Witch, Wiccan, Hulking, Patriot, Hawkeye (Kate Bishop) and Giant-Girl (Cassandra Lang). They would take residence on the Avengers Mansion. They would be assigned by Steve to take down the Maker. I really, really want the Vision and Scarlet Witch to get back together. Like Reed and Susan Richards, and Hank and Janet Pym, I feel that they are pillars of the Marvel Universe and they belong together. The Avengers should feel like a family, and with the inclusion of Wiccan (their lost son) this would be perfect. I understand that there has to be consequences and they can't pretend nothing happened, but the story of the Avengers shouldn't be a tragedy. I also think that this guys need to meet a bad guy or someone who depowers Wanda and Wiccan. They are just too powerful and it hurts the stories.

-Avengers- Earth's Mightiest Heroes: This team would have only classic members, the 'big guns'. Spider-Man, Captain Marvel, Wonder Man, Quicksilver, Dr Strange, Wasp (Janet Van Dyne) and She-Hulk. This would be the most powerfull team, but they would not be the main one because most of their members would be really busy people (Peter has Parker Industries, Carol has Alpha Flight, etc). Spiderman would lead, and they could have headquarters on Parker Industries Tower maybe? 
 
POSSIBLE EVENTS/ CROSSOVERS
 
A Mandarin- Centric event
Magneto had House of M, Doom had Secret Wars, Norman Osbourne had Dark Reign, Red Skull had Red Zone and Loki had countless big events as The Avenger's big bad. I believe that it is the Mandarin's turn. Last time we saw him was 4 years ago, and after the disappointment that was Trevor Slattery, I think that the Mandarin deserves it. He has gerat potential and he is powerfull enough. This would be perfect for the new heroes to prove themselves.
 
A Great War between villains
We've seen DC's villains uniting to save the world in Forever Evil. We've seen Magneto becoming good to face Apocalypse on Age of Apocalypse. We've seen superheroes fighting eachother for different morals. But I think we have never seen villains going full evil against eachother to conquer the world. What if Earth's heroes were suddenly vanished from Earth by the Beyonder, creating a power vacuum? What if Doom, Red Skull (Hydra), Loki, Magneto, Ultron, Mandarin or Kang fought eachother for the control of the planet? WHO WOULD WIN?? Bring EVERY villain here, have alliances and betrayals. I think the possibilities are endless here.
 
The Great Return
As I said, I think that Thor, Tony Stark and Steve Rogers should take a break from centre of the Marvel Universe. But how awesome would it be when they all came back together? After being abducted alongside every other hero for months by the Beyonder, they would finally break free. How awesome would it be to see Cap, Thor, Ironman, Bruce Banner-Hulk, Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne, the founding members returning after years to kick the sh*t out of whoever won in the Great War of villains. The event would obviously include all the other heroes, but it should focus on the classic ones.

-Civil War II done right: Ok, this article got much longer than I expected, so I decided to do a whole other one to cover the subject of Civil War II which I will upload soon! What I can tell you in advance is that I really want to see X-Men vs Inhumans.

All in all, the perfect opportunity for a full reboot is gone. I'm glad that Marvel is exploring new possibilites and challenging the limits of its universe, but lets hope that it doesn't go out of control and that it doesn't take too long for the more classic aspects of the universe to return. 

What are your thoughts on Marvel comics? Sound off below!
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TheRockmore
TheRockmore - 6/25/2016, 4:24 PM
Stopped reading after:

"These 'new' characters are mostly minorities, and while many call these changes 'Political Correctness' I like to just call them 'Correctness'. You see, the top 20-25 most popular superheroes are caucasian. This is a fact, and its even worse if you consider all the other popular heroes from Star Wars, LOTR, Harry Potter, etc. This is unfair and it has to change. "

You don't consider it political correctness, because you agree with the views of being politically correct, and therefore you - obviously - can't see the other side of the argument.
NovaCorpsFan
NovaCorpsFan - 6/25/2016, 7:48 PM
In your first point how are you defining popularity? Have you based it on sales figures for solo series, publication history, recognition of a character or a combination of those and other things? If you haven't taken those into account yourself, where've you pulled that information from? I'd like to know purely for my own benefit.



You say "or something" a lot. You don't sound too certain of yourself. Take out the "or somethings", you're writing will flow better, plus you'll piss more people off for sounding certain of what you're saying.

If you're not satisfied with the team dynamic in The Ultimates, read Guardians of Infinity. It's basically the same concept but with less of an attachment to the primary events of the MU. Also, I hate what's been done to Galactus. He's a force of nature that's a necessary evil and making him a creator of life is a piss poor decision because he's supposed to be maintaining the balance between life and death in the universe.

Your point about the Inhumans needs to be longer. If there are infinite possibilities, tell us a few of them.

Peter being a genius is a core aspect of his character. So is the infamous "Ol' Parker Luck". He's not supposed to catch a decent break in life. Ever. Any time something good happens to Spider-Man, he has to have that horrible reminder that life is shit and he has to overcome every challenge thrown at him or he's [frick]ed. That's what makes him an interesting character. He's endearing, and despite having lost near enough everybody he has ever held dear, bar May and MJ, he still does what he does. He may be a genius, but he's a moderate genius. He's never been about the billionaire socialite lifestyle, Iron Man has. Keeping Peter as a high school science teacher who leads a financially normal life as a superhero was perfect. It was the right balance of tragedy and normality, but now Spidey's stories are just Iron Man stories. Peter can be normal and interesting at the same time. He's been doing it for fifty years. Nobody was complaining, at least not overtly publicly, so there was no need to change it. Character development doesn't have to be becoming one of the richest men on the planet, it can be experiencing one thing on one particular day that changes the character for the rest of their existence, without detracting from the core of the character.

In your Jane Thor section, you use the term fact pretty loosely and you definitely can't use fact and "may be" in the same sentence when referring to the same thing.

I was expecting you to talk about Kamala being a Muslim, but I'd love to hear your opinion on that.

On the topic of The Others, those being the characters who've adopted mantles belonging to other characters, I hate that Marvel has done that. Why not call Sam Wilson's series Falcon? He's still Falcon, he just has a shield, and with Steve back now it makes sense to do it. Marvel just want a black Cap, it's that simple. X-23 calling herself Wolverine, why not call the book X-23? Why not make Amadeus the new Rick Jones and have him and Hulk go on adventures like those two used to? It'd be even better because Amadeus is genuinely a genius and there are so many story possibilities if you put Banner and Cho together. Why aren't these characters being pushed out there on their own merit rather than being shoved into a role they have some association with? Marvel are just forcing diversity down their readers throats and it's pissing me off because they're going about it all wrong. Hell, I'd read the [frick] out of a Falcon series. I love Sam Wilson's character and to see him do things as Falcon, the identity he truly belongs to, would be awesome. Instead, Marvel are worried a Falcon book won't sell, so they made him Captain America to give it some appeal. There are much better ways to diversify. Putting characters into roles they don't need to adopt is not the best of these.

I'm not gonna get started on Sam Alexander as Nova, we'll be here all day.

I agree about the Avengers teams, they're all a mess. The reason that the main Avengers team is the way it is is because of diversity again. Three teenagers: a black-Hispanic kid, a Muslim kid and a white suburban kid; followed up by a white man, a black man, a white woman and an android. Of those characters, three of them have a long history with each other. Iron Man, Captain America and Vision have established relationships. The others don't, and the writer of that series acts like because they're a team they instantly have a rapport with one another. All the quips and jokes fall flat and the dialogue doesn't sound natural, at least to me, because these characters don't really know each other and they're not being given the chance to get to know one another.

A-Force is another product of the diversity thing but mainly it's Marvel being afraid of feminists. Basically every leading female superhero is on that team and it's because Marvel want to show that they're really forward-thinking by creating a team where women stick with women and don't need men to help them ever. That's pretty backward, because it's basically self-segregation, but God forbid Marvel realise that.

You don't seem to have researched any of this. You refer to Amadeus Cho as "the Chinese guy" at one stage in the first paragraph of your own ideas. How am I supposed to take your opinions and ideas seriously when you don't even seem all that invested in them yourself. Google is right there. I can't tell whether or not English is your first language, but you write well enough that I think it is by default. Seriously though, you need to give an air of knowledge if you're going to start pitching your ideas on how Marvel should proceed with its characters.

And I'm sorry but anything that involves more existing characters taking up new mantles is just a no-go. Why can't that Avengers team you're pitching be Falcon, Thor (Jane, because you have later plans for Thor I see), War Machine, X-23, Hulk (Bruce Banner), Amadeus Cho, Ms Marvel (still Kamala 'cause she is decent but they could do with renaming her) and Hawkeye as Atlas like he was back in the nineties? They're the same characters, the only difference is the names.

Why shouldn't the story of the Avengers be a tragedy? Basically every superhero story in human history is a tragedy. Jesus, there's a famous saying: "Show me a hero and I'll write you a tragedy". Heroes need tragedy because tragedy is what makes them stronger. Superheroes without tragedy is like horror without suspense. It's boring. We don't want to see heroes be happy and hopeful all the time, never experiencing anything to quell that optimism. I'll quote the Green Goblin in Raimi's Spider-Man: "If there's anything they love more than a hero, it's to see a hero fall. Fail. Die trying". We read about superheroes because we enjoy seeing them suffer greatly and still come at life screaming in tragedy's face.

Why have the core Avengers team be so fragmented? Why make the core Avengers team the one that has heroes that are off running tech empires or global threat prevention organisations? That doesn't make any sense. That's just the Defenders. The Defenders were originally a non-team that came together whenever it was totally necessary because they were too powerful to exist a single unit ALL the time. If they had, people would've been terrified.

I like the idea of the war of the villains. Yeah it'd be cool, but what would these alliances be, what would the betrayals be, who'd be backstabbing who? You once again say the possibilities are endless: Give us some of them! I want to hear your ideas, not just your daydreams that literally every comic book fan has on a daily basis.

I think Marvel need to embrace the classic characters again, as you do. Though I don't think they should stop at the Avengers. Bring in the Invaders and the All-Winners Squad, and y'know what? Make at least one of them a massive racist, but keep them a superhero. Imagine that. A superhero that genuinely represents the popular opinions of the era they were created in. That'd be ballsy as [frick] after all this forceful diversity. Imagine Toro, the original Human Torch's sidekick, calling Sam Wilson a [racial slur] and seeing no issue with it. Imagine all the other heroes being totally disgusted by it. Imagine Cap and Winter Soldier trying to defend him, trying to explain to him that things are different now and he just sticks to his guns and keeps believing in segregation and all that other horrible stuff America used to force on black people. That'd be a better plot point for Civil War II done properly. Tackle the very relevant issue of freedom of speech and progressive vs regressive values. I'd love to see Marvel embrace history like that and it'd be refreshing after all the neo-liberal bullshit we've seen in comics lately.

To cap off, I think you need to edit the living hell out of this piece and elaborate more on some of your points. Hope you respond, there are things I really wanna hear your opinion on.
Utopian8418
Utopian8418 - 6/25/2016, 9:31 PM
@NovaCorpsFan - Thanks for the feedback man. First of all, english is not my first language. You are right that I didn't do a lot of research for this and I'm sorry if that bothers you. I just had all these ideas and I couldn't keep them for myself, I have a big list of articles I want to write but can't find the time to write them (I should be studying right now) so I'm sorry.

- About the popularity of caucasian characters, I obviously didn't take the information from any legitimate source. But I bet that if you counted them yourself, you'd know that I can't be far from the real number.

- I agree about my bad use of 'or something' and 'fact' haha but I can't help it.

- I don't really have a lot of ideas about the Inhumans butI felt like I had to include them.

- With Peter, I guess that he means something different for each reader. Its like the MOS discussions and 'Superman means this' or 'Superman means that'. There has been too much versions of Superman and Spiderman and I don't think we'll get anywhere with that discussion.

- About Kamala being a Muslim, I think it just makes the character feel more fresh and interesting.

- About tragedy. The Goblin is wrong you know, you said it yourself. "We read about superheroes because we enjoy seeing them suffer greatly and still come at life screaming in tragedy's face". I want there to be tragedy, but I also want them to overcome the tragedy. I want it to be a story about optimism.

- The villain war event I have in my head deserves a whole article for itself.

- The Spiderman team would not be the core team! I still want the core team to be the one with Kamala and I will explain why on my next comment.

- I will write a whole other comment on the issue of diversity.
Utopian8418
Utopian8418 - 6/25/2016, 9:32 PM
@NovaCorpsFan - I may be naive but I don't think that Marvel is doing the 'mantles thing' just for an agenda (I don't think they need to), but because its the right thing to do. And I am convinced that it is the right thing to do. I think I was clear in my first paragraph about why new characters should be minorities, but I guess that I can expand on why there should be new characters taking on mantles at all (regardless of their race). I feel that we have seen (for 50 years) what Bruce Banner would do if he became a big green monster every time he got angry. But I wonder what Amadeus Cho would do? Don't you ever wonder what you would do if you became Spiderman? Captain America is specially a mantle that I find interesting when it is passed to someone new. What are the right choices? What are true American values? Its actually pretty simple to me. Maybe you just don't like stories where a character has to 'live up' to someone else, like the new movie Creed. Some people find them pretty good! It has nothing to do with race. Race is just a secondary aspect of it. I didn't see this much backlash when Dick Grayson took up the mantle of Batman and didn't 'just stay as Nightwing'. Superheroes are symbols, and symbold can't die/ age. I DO THINK though that it is dumb for him to continue as Cap when Steve has returned.

About the Avengers, I reassert that what I pitched in the 'Avengers-Legacy' paragraph should be the core team. I love Jane-Thor and think that Sam-Cap has huge potentieal (if Steve remained old). They living in the Avengers mansion, getting to know eachother and proving themselves could be great if done right. A-Force is pretty cool to me. I don't think that places like USA need that kind of simbolism but some other places like India really do. The role/stereotype of women in society is not fair and it has to change. Exagerating and puting women alone helps. Also I sincerily ask you if you would be this upset by an all-men team.

About Toro, racism and free speech. I understand that free speech is a subject of debate and I understand that a superhero could support every form of free speech (I would disagree with him) and a Civil War could break out. But a racist Toro could never be a part of the fighting forces because he could never be a superhero. A racist person is and will ever be a bad man, a villain of society.
NovaCorpsFan
NovaCorpsFan - 6/26/2016, 7:27 AM
@ManMan - You needn't apologise, man, I'm guilty of posting several articles I haven't edited much either.

If I were to define popularity as the things I mentioned, then I'd say there'd be some black characters in there. Black Panther and Green Lantern come to mind. So I doubt that if I took those things into account that ALL the heroes would be Caucasian but they would be in a majority. That's pretty representative of actual society though isn't it? Minorities are minorities in the western world. Black people aren't as common as white people. That's just how it is. To show otherwise would be ignorant. If Marvel came out tomorrow and announced that all their titles now involved X, Y and Z characters and not one of them was a white man, would that not bother you? Diversity is about mixing, not dominating.

The Inhumans work better in a cosmic setting. War of Kings showed that they need the void of space to fully show off their abilities and come into their own as a team. They're too powerful to be restrained on Earth.

I agree that Kamala being a Muslim makes her more of an interesting character, and it's certainly fresh because it's unprecedented. Except Marvel already had a Muslim called Dust in the X-Men and she wore a Burka and everything. They could've just as easily given Dust her own book and the fact she was a Muslim would've gotten it to sell because it'd be a Muslim character in their own series. Kamala is a great, fresh character and all but just labelling her Ms Marvel because she looked up to Carol Danvers is a bit lazy. I realise there aren't many names you can give a character that has stretching abilities that don't sound silly, and I guess it's also kind of a play on Mr. Fantastic.

I wasn't really saying Green Goblin was right, I was using his quote as a basis for my next point about the hero coming back and winning.

I look forward to that villain article, can't wait to hear your ideas.

I don't care about what other characters would do if they had the traits of other characters. I couldn't care less what Spider-Man would do with Iron Man's money, or what Cho would do with Hulk's abilities. They don't NEED to be those characters and after fifty years, being themselves never got into a rut.

I can agree that those topics you mention should be explored in regards to Captain America, but the character bearing that name should have earned it. When Cap died, Bucky saw it as his duty to take up the Cap mantle. Steve got old and asked Sam Wilson to be Captain America. There's nothing innovative about that. Especially seeing as how Sam carried on having all of his Falcon character traits, they just redesigned his costume.

I love stories where a character has to live up to someone else, but it tends to be a matter of that someone else being dead or dying. In Creed, Apollo was dead. When Bucky became Cap, Cap was dead. It's more endearing if that character has a connection to the dead character because it's a matter of a genuine legacy. While Sam has been Cap, Steve has just been an old guy who's still active as a superhero. There's no legacy there, it's just a matter of Sam filling in for Steve because he can't do the Captain America thing any more in his own mind.

When Dick Grayson became Batman, it made sense. Batman stepping aside to let Dick bear the mantle was something people had been anticipating for years. The reason Batman takes on a ward is because he knows that one day, he's not going to be around and his city is going to be left defenseless. That's why Batman has near enough always had a Robin, regardless of how cheesy people think it might be for a character like Batman to have a sidekick. It's a matter of legacy again. Batman wants the idea of justice in Gotham to be perpetuated for as long as possible and the only way to do that is to have a living symbol for as long as possible.

I have and would be genuinely upset by an all-male team. The Avengers always need a female presence, and in fact any superhero team needs a female presence. Purely from a storytelling standpoint, men without women by their side are dull, and vice versa. A-Force may be empowering to women in countries where they're systemically oppressed, but nobody out there living in those conditions can afford to buy a comic book every month.

The role/stereotype of women in society is perpetuated by two groups of people: sexists, backwards thinking hicks in their seventies who'll soon be gone from this world, and feminists, who are themselves sexists toward both men and women. I myself know that women have every right to do as they please in the western world. They have equality of opportunity just like every man does. Women now have every right that men do. To think otherwise is ignorant and sexist. However, feminists will never say women have equal rights today because they project their own shortcomings onto the concept of patriarchy. You don't see them say shit like this in A-Force, which is great, but in the hands of the wrong writer they could become a mouthpiece for the more extreme brand of feminism and those feminists are wrong. I have no problem with the feminists who want to empower women, just so long as they don't do it through proxy by degrading men. A-Force is empowering to women, but like you said, it isn't as needed in the USA. A-Force in the USA could be empowering to the women and girls that read it, that can read it, but they don't NEED that empowerment as much as women in places like India or Saudi Arabia do. It's all well and good advocating for the empowerment of women, it's just the audience you reach may not always be the right one. And just to cap off on this feminism rant, times ARE changing. Women do become CEOs of companies, politicians, doctors, scientists and all those other great jobs that tend to involve the ability to sort out your own working hours. These are women who know that on top of being a highly-trained highly-paid professional, they have to be a mother as well. These are genuinely educated women who want to provide their families with the best shot in life. The main complaint in regards to the workplace that feminists give tends to be that there aren't enough women in workplaces. Well, there are, it's just that because of that movement millions of young women are taking gender studies courses and getting a totally useless degree that'll never get them a real job. So the stereotype that women should stay at home and look after their family is going away, it's just that the women's movement won't acknowledge that it is due to their own personal experiences.

The point of Toro being a racist would be to ask ourselves the question of where does free speech end and bigoted hatred begin? Personally I believe in the broadest term of free speech possible where you can say whatever the hell you want as long as you're not genuinely threatening the safety of another person or persons. And I don't mean someone saying they're going to kill you over the internet, I mean someone saying, "we have your address, your name, the addresses of your family and friends and at six o'clock we're going to storm into all those houses and brutally murder every single person we see". That's a threat of genuine violent action that needs to be punished, but if someone says "kill yourself" or "drink bleach" to a YouTuber or blogger, that's not a threat it's an empty display of dislike. So I believe Toro would be perfectly justified in calling a black character a racial slur, it's when he starts enacting the principles of the 1930s in the modern day that I'd disagree with. And the whole Civil War thing could be the characters that believe what I believe and the characters that believe what you believe. I wholeheartedly believe that Captain America would defend Toro's right to say as he pleases, but at the same time try and convince him that things are different now and he should progress his ideologies into the setting he must now live in. Then on the flip-side you could have Sam Wilson believing Toro should be punished for spreading hate speech and Sam and Cap could come to logger heads over their ideologies on one of the most sensitive and controversial topics in the world today. That'd be an amazing story if it were handled right and it deals with real world issues.
Utopian8418
Utopian8418 - 6/26/2016, 12:02 PM
@NovaCorpsFan -
Steve Rogers, Tony Stark, Thor, Hulk, Spiderman, Reed Richards, Susan Storm, Jhonny Storm, Ben Grimm, Daredevil, Wolverine, Cyclops, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Aquaman, Hal Jordan, Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Frodo, Aragorn, Bilbo, Harry Potter, Ron Weasley, Hermionie Granger are all more popular than any black character. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure I'm not and this certainly doesn't represent real demographics. Its worse when you consider supporting characters and villains (Lois Lane, Lex Luthor, etc). But numbers are not that important to me, its just the 'general picture'.

I don't think the Inhumans are much more powerful than mutants, but you could be right about space being the more fitting setting for the Royal Family.

I don't think being muslim should be such a big deal. I don't see a reason why Marvel should only have one muslim character and Dust is horribly stereotypical to me. I agree that they should have given Ms Marvel a different name.

You say 'They don't NEED to be those characters' and I agree. But I don't think stories are 'needed', stories are just 'interesting and thoughtful' or 'not interesting and not thoughtful'.
I just can't see the difference between Sam Wilson taking Cap's mantle and Dick taking Batman's. Falcon was as much sidekick to Steve as Bucky was. I don't see the difference between him dying and him getting old either. The point is that he can't be Cap America anymore and the world needs a Cap. Bucky doesn't seem as the natural successor of the symbol of patriotism to me because he became an assasin and all.

I mostly agree with you about sexism. But even I admit that I was not upset by the 'A-Team' or 'The Losers' or just Green Lantern Corps comics with Hal, John, Kyle, Guy and Kilowog. I don't see any reason at all why A-Force should not be an all-female team. Again, it doesn't hurt anyone, its just for fun. And when I spoke about male dominated societies I was talking about the middle class and people who probably buy comics regularly. In some places of India and China rape is not even seen as a crime. But yeah, I mostly agree with you.

About Toro. I am curious about wether saying racial slurs is punished in USA as a crime or something. I think that Toro should at least be expelled from the Avengers until he adapts to the modern world. But either way, If I wrote the story, I would have Sam defending Toro's rights. I always found it much more heart-warming when heroes defend the villain that harmed them, and this way you wouldn't spread what in my opinion are just bad stereotypes like black men playing acting as victims.
Utopian8418
Utopian8418 - 6/26/2016, 12:05 PM
@ManMan - When I say that I don't see the difference between Sam Wilson and Dick Grayson, I mean that I can't see why one would be considered 'wrong' and the other one 'right'.
NovaCorpsFan
NovaCorpsFan - 6/26/2016, 1:12 PM
Thing is, none of them represent our world. They represent a different galaxy, a different universe, not this one. In Middle Earth, there are Orcs, Hobbits, Elves and humans. In Star Wars there are humans, Wookies, Ewoks, Mon Kalamari, Twi'Leks, Hutts and a whole host of other alien races. Diversity means something different in each of those universes. To portray it any differently would be dishonest. Those realities don't represent this one, so why the hell should they conform to our ideologies and beliefs, or our concept of diversity? It doesn't represent real demographics because in the majority of the cases you've just presented, it doesn't have to. Star Wars had Lando, Harry Potter had characters that were black, Indian, Irish and all sorts of other races and ethnicities and they were all named characters from the books too. Harry Potter also had freakin' giants, goblins, centaurs, dementors and a shit tonne of other fantastical creatures that made up the wizarding world. It's not meant to represent our world, it's meant to represent its own.

The Inhuman royal family are some of the most powerful characters in the MU. Karnak can find the flaw in literally anything and know exactly how to exploit it. Give him enough time to look at a building, he'll know exactly where to hit to make the whole thing just crumble. Black Bolt can shatter cities with his voice. Medusa's hair is more than ten times stronger than she is and is capable of reaching incredible distances as well as volumes. If she wanted to, she could suffocate an entire room in a matter of seconds. Gorgon can shatter planets by stomping his feet. Crystal has total control over the elements and can exploit them all simultaneously. Triton can maintain a telepathic link with every from of marine life he sets his mind to, on Earth or otherwise, and his skin is totally impenetrable to withstand oceans deeper than Earth's. He could delve to a million fathoms and still be completely fine. Lockjaw can teleport any number of people to anywhere in the multiverse. Inhumans are much more heavily powered than mutants.

Dust isn't stereotypical, she's a representation of a genuinely religious Muslim woman who believes in wearing the Burka. Kamala is more of a moderate Muslim, the kind that live in western society, and I think it is a big deal that she's a Muslim because Marvel have the chance to put a message across about extremism and stereotyping that they aren't exploiting to the best of their ability.

I don't know what you mean by stories not being needed and just being "interesting and thoughtful" or "interesting and not thoughtful". Could you explain that a bit better?

The difference between Steve getting old and Batman dying is exactly that: one gets old, the other literally dies. Steve carried on as a superhero after getting old, why didn't he just keep the Captain America mantle?

Saying racial slurs in the USA isn't a punishable crime because it goes with freedom of expression, which is in the US constitution.

Sam wouldn't be playing the victim, he'd be acting as an opinionated and independent individual that believes in the progression of society and when he's confronted with someone whose ideology clashes with his, he wants to defend HIS ideology. If the story were more of a Captain America event than a crossover event, I think it'd work a lot better.

I'm not really saying one is wrong and one is right, I'm saying one is a great way of passing the mantle to another character (Batman to Robin) and the other is a bad way of passing the mantle to another character (Cap to Falcon). Cap didn't take Falcon in initially so he could train him and ensure the world would always have a Captain America. That's the ONLY reason Batman has a sidekick, is so he can train that sidekick to eventually go off on their own and fight for justice and eventually take up the mantle once Bruce is gone. Cap becoming old and telling Sam to be Captain America just felt so stupid to me. At least with Bucky it was the fact Cap had died and Bucky was actually a major part of Cap's legacy. Falcon had since become his own hero, doing his own thing. You can't just hand him the mantle of Captain America, especially with Steve still being both alive and able-bodied. Batman retired from superheroics when Dick took over as Batman. There was a genuine need for a new Batman. With Steve just getting old and carrying on as Commander Rogers, there was really no need for him to do that, He could've just stayed calling himself Captain America.
Utopian8418
Utopian8418 - 6/26/2016, 2:07 PM
@NovaCorpsFan -
I don't think it matters what those world are 'meant' to represent. I only care about the consequences they have on real society. I am just saying it is a cool thing to make the main heroes more diverse, its rather simple to me.

Scarlet Witch, Hope Summers, Franklin Richards, Emma Frost and Quentin Quire are just some Omega Level mutants who are as powerful as anyone you mentioned.

I looked it up and it turns out that 5-15% of American Muslim women wear a Hijab or Burqa.

I just meant that Sam taking Cap's mantle wasn't needed. Specific stories are not 'needed'. They just need to be interesting.

I don't think that passing the mantle is the only reason for Batman to have a sidekick, otherwise he wouldn't have multiple of them. But I understand your point. I mentioned in my article (in the Uncanny Avengers section) that it was stupid for Steve to carry on fighting haha so I agree with you. He should have gotten old enough to stop being able to fight. And IF there was a genuine need of a new Cap, I think Sam is a perfect choice. He IS a big part of Cap's legacy and he is just a common man fighting for what he believes in, as opposed to Bucky who was an assasin for years. And I also think that the race thing is an important factor here, but we can agree to disagree on this one.
NovaCorpsFan
NovaCorpsFan - 6/26/2016, 2:44 PM
@ManMan - Yeah, but those X-Men aren't frequently used or frequently display their powers to their greatest extent. On a regular day, the things I said are what the Inhuman Royal family do.

Yeah, American Muslim women. Dust is Saudi. It makes sense for Kamala not to wear one, but Dust is a Saudi woman who respects the more middle eastern ideology of Islam.

And yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree on everything else, because we clearly think differently about these things.

Good talk though, it's rare these days that any comic book fan can have a civil conversation without someone getting really pissed off stuff.
Utopian8418
Utopian8418 - 6/26/2016, 3:03 PM
@NovaCorpsFan - You make good points about the Inhumans and Dust.
Really good talk man. Looking forward for a Civil War for free speech!

kinghulk
kinghulk - 6/26/2016, 2:39 PM
i havent read the ultimate's or the new ant man so are they any good? in regards to an event for the mandarin i have a pretty good idea for that. a while ago a bunch of people on here came together to try and make a online alternate universe for marvel, dc and i did iron man and also come up with a big avengers cross over event which the mandarin would have been the main villian. personally considering the mandarins power set i think he should be a much larger threat than he has been in the comics.
i did an article about it if u like the idea let me know
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/comics/the-oau-what-could-have-been-a118696
Utopian8418
Utopian8418 - 6/26/2016, 3:14 PM
@kinghulk - Both Antman and the Ultimates are really great. Issue 6 of the Ultimates specially is the best thing ever. Antman is freaking hilarious, its all about the supervillain underworld in Miami. The new series starts with Antman Vol 2 and after Secret Wars its called Astonishing Antman.

Really looking forward to reading your article. I'll tell what I think about it when I'm finished!
Utopian8418
Utopian8418 - 6/27/2016, 4:23 PM
@kinghulk - Freaking great man! Really liked it. I thought Thor wasn't going to show up but he did and it was awesome
kinghulk
kinghulk - 6/28/2016, 4:07 AM
@ManMan - glad you liked it, personally i think marvel have a lot of under utilized villians like the mandarin and id love to see a few of them be given an iconic story/ more development.
Utopian8418
Utopian8418 - 6/28/2016, 6:36 PM
@kinghulk - Yeah, the Leader and MODOK are the first to come to my mind. Also I can't believe we've barely seen venom 'possesing' other heroes apart from spiderman.
kinghulk
kinghulk - 6/29/2016, 7:01 AM
@ManMan - there was an interesting issue of GOTG where the venom symbiote possessed groot and rocket. i could imagine a pretty cool story with symbiotes possessing various avengers and villians (dont know if that has been done).

https://skywarpgreer.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/rocket.jpg?w=736
UltimateTypeface
UltimateTypeface - 6/26/2016, 8:13 PM
Weird that people who like comic books (more images than words) write small novels as comments.
ThunderKat
ThunderKat - 6/27/2016, 2:05 PM
@ManMan

I agree with the guys above. You don't believe it's PC because you like it. However, you are almost to our viewpoint when you say it's pointless to call Jane Thor, Miles Spider-Man, etc.

What this shows is a lack of creativity. Falcon, Luke Cage, and Panther are great as is. These "creators" need to create characters that are diverse, not rewrite or "white wash" existing characters. It is disingenuous.

Ms. Marvel is the best example. Why is she called Ms. Marvel? Why not Marvel Girl or Shapeshifter or something that reflects her powers?

It's a lack of creativity AND forced diversity.
Utopian8418
Utopian8418 - 6/27/2016, 4:37 PM
@ThunderKat If I really enjoy it then I don't give a flying f*ck if is PC or not man haha. The Thor series is awesome you should check it out.
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